Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Lux23

Lux23 wrote: »

It isn't a lack of critical thinking, people will just believe what they want to believe.

Yes, but at the very least if you are going to use data to support that belief, you better make sure it does actually support that belief

Tenzor07

Deleted User wrote: »

Backlog, get the shock number in to support the announcement.

Has happened each time since March

Vaccines are coming!

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Backlog, get the shock number in to support the announcement.

Has happened each time since March

In the imaginations of the magical thinking of the conspiracy theorists. Backlogs have happened just as often when the opposite was happening. Ye only notice them when they suggest some conspiracy.

Penfailed

average_runner wrote: »

How did the bigger countries in Europe manage to do it? Our boarder is tiny compare to others.

The bigger countries in Europe have a minuscule number of border crossings compared to the size of their borders. There's around 300 crossings here.

facehugger99

Deleted User wrote: »

Only 698 positive swabs off of 13000+ tests in last 24 hours.

Cases already levelling off before any lockdown.

The reason for cases rising a bit was increased testing due to people looking for tests before Christmas.

It's the whole nonsense of calling people who don't even know they have the virus 'cases' and then locking down based on these people.

Tiny amount of people in hospital and a couple of dozen in ICU but we are going to fcuk over the hospitality industry one more time.

We have the most spineless bunch of cravens in Government at present and the are being controlled by a bunch of one-issue zealots in NPHET.

WhiteMemento9

Deleted User wrote: »

So testing has increased 30% and cases 200%+.

The lack of critical thinking here is frightening

It is not just the lack of critical thinking but the delusions of grandeur that people have in this thread that they know better than experts making these calls is frightening. It feels like some kind of mental illness.

Ginger n Lemon

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

It is not just the lack of critical thinking but the delusions of grandeur that people have in this thread that they know better than experts making these calls is frightening. It feels like some kind of mental illness.

I dont agree with that.

Why do you call NPHET "experts"? Or Health minister? Or M Martin?

None of them are experts. 1 - 2 have a virology degree but thats just about that.

Expert is someone with actual experience to deal with issue at hand. No one in NPHET, nor government have any experience in dealing with an extremely mild pandemic 99.8% people of which recover from. They make it up as they go along.

You just chose to clap for them instead of anyone else. That doesnt make them "experts"

Ginger n Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

So testing has increased 30% and cases 200%+.

The lack of critical thinking here is frightening

And deaths have increased 0%.

growleaves

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

It is not just the lack of critical thinking but the delusions of grandeur that people have in this thread that they know better than experts making these calls is frightening. It feels like some kind of mental illness.

There's no point in a discussion if people aren't meant to form their own opinions.

I oppose trade embargoes and forced social isolation. Ask a committee of 40 psychiatrists what they think of how viable the latter is and you will get informed expert medical opinions that run counter to the ones you're declaring incontrovertible.

WhiteMemento9

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I dont agree with that.

Why do you call NPHET "experts"? Or Health minister? Or M Martin?

None of them are experts. 1 - 2 have a virology degree but thats just about that.

Expert is someone with actual experience to deal with issue at hand. No one in NPHET, nor government have any experience in dealing with an extremely mild pandemic 99.8% people of which recover from. They make it up as they go along.

You just chose to clap for them instead of anyone else. That doesnt make them "experts"

Dr Tony Holohan (Chair) Chief Medical Officer, Department of Health (DOH
Prof Colm Bergin – Consultant Infectious Diseases, St. James’s Hospital and Professor of Medicine, Trinity College Dublin
Mr Paul Bolger – Director, Resources Division, DOH
Dr Eibhlin Connolly – Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Ms Tracey Conroy – A/Sec, Acute Hospitals Division, DOH
Dr John Cuddihy – Interim Director, Health Protection Surveillance Centre (HPSC)
Dr Cillian de Gascun - Director, National Virus Reference Laboratory (NVRL), UCD, Consultant Virologist
Mr Colm Desmond – A/Sec, Corporate Legislation, Mental Health, Drugs Policy and Food Safety Division, DOH
Dr Lorraine Doherty – National Clinical Director for Health Protection, HPSC, HSE
Dr Mary Favier – President Irish College of General Practitioners (ICGP)
Dr Ronan Glynn – Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Mr Fergal Goodman – A/Sec, Primary Care Division, DOH
Dr Colm Henry – Chief Clinical Officer, HSE
Dr Kevin Kelleher – Asst. National Director, Public Health, HSE
Ms Marita Kinsella – Director, National Patient Safety Office, DOH
Mr David Leach – Deputy National Director of Communications, HSE
Dr Kathleen Mac Lellan – A/Sec, Social Care Division, DOH
Dr Jeanette Mc Callion – Medical Assessor, Health Products Regulatory Authority (HPRA)
Mr Tom McGuinness – Asst. National Director, Office of Emergency Planning, HSE
Dr Siobhán Ní Bhrian – Lead for Integrated Care, HSE Prof Philip Nolan President, National University of Ireland, Maynooth
Ms Kate O’Flaherty – Head of Health and Wellbeing, DOH
Dr Darina O’Flanagan – Special Advisor to the NPHET, DOH
Dr Siobhan O’Sullivan – Chief Bioethics Officer, DOH
Dr Michael Power – National Clinical Lead, Critical Care Programme, HSE Consultant in Anaesthetics / Intensive Care Medicine, Beaumont Hospital
Mr Phelim Quinn – Chief Executive Officer, HIQA
Dr Máirín Ryan – Deputy Chief Executive and Director of Health Technology Assessment, HIQA
Dr Alan Smith – Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Dr Breda Smyth – Director of Public Health Medicine, HSE
Mr David Walsh – National Director, Community Operations, HSE
Ms Deirdre Watters – Head of Communications, DOH
Mr Liam Woods – National Director, Acute Operations, HSE

https://www.thejournal.ie/here-is-who-sits-on-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-and-what-they-do-5086703-Apr2020/

What a list of chancers.

quartz1

Where would we be if there had been no restrictions ........from what I see NPHET have served this Country well and there are many people alive now who might not be if we had pursued a policy of less restrictions . It looks like a Zero Covid or low level Covid policy could have minimised these rolling Lockdowns that nobody wants..Airports and Ports were left unattended and no policy to organise a testing regime for flights .How crazy does it look now to reflect on US tourists arriving while Kildare and Laois were locked down . Test and trace capability will be stressed again shortly and if its found lacking then some Politician should explain why

Ginger n Lemon

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

What a list of chancers.

You are supporting my point.

Tony Holohan, he is an expert? we know what he is an expert at but if I say it I ll probably be banned so, pass.

Which one of the individuals had input in dealing with pandemic of 1968? If the answer is none then all you've provided is a list of individuals with college degrees who have worked in their field. But none of them have experience at dealing with a very mild pandemic.

Your logic is akin to calling a pilot who has completed his training and done some training flights on a simulator an "expert" when he pilots his first flight with real people.



Your experts have ordered transfer of covid patients from hospitals to nursing homes in March. You should be ashamed of that rather than keep linking their names as some sort of "I am so proud these experts are looking after us"

WhiteMemento9

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You are supporting my point.

Tony Holohan, he is an expert? we know what he is an expert at but if I say it I ll probably be banned so, pass.

Which one of the individuals had input in dealing with pandemic of 1968? If the answer is none then all you've provided is a list of individuals with college degrees who have worked in their field. But none of them have experience at dealing with a very mild pandemic.

Your logic is akin to calling a pilot who has completed his training and done some training flights on a simulator an "expert" when he pilots his first flight with real people.

So instead people like yourself and Jack with no training at all and have watched a few youtube videos are more qualified to fly the plane? You know better somehow?

WhiteMemento9

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

It is not just the lack of critical thinking but the delusions of grandeur that people have in this thread that they know better than experts making these calls is frightening. It feels like some kind of mental illness.

You mean the experts who saw China and then European countries locking down so just decided to copy them. Don’t really need a degree and a six figure salary to do that...

Ginger n Lemon

Bottom line is - if lockdowns worked why would we need 3 lockdowns?

If masks worked, why does this disease spread uncontrollably the minute we re open?

People need to understand that wealth = health. if you dont have wealth you dont expect to live 100 years now do you. Its such a simple concept. Yet you have these seals happy clapping for lockdown announcements, going further saying "ohh you should have lockdown many more things".

I have never realized just how stupid and cowardly people are until this year. Willing to throw out their entire way of life for months and months (years soon) because of "cases" being announced to them. Cases. :rolleyes:

WhiteMemento9

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Bottom line is - if lockdowns worked why would we need 3 lockdowns?

Yes, that is the nature of how the lockdown has worked and has been described all along. They keep the virus under control while we wait for a vaccine.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

If masks worked, why does this disease spread uncontrollably the minute we re open?

Well, there have been controlled studies done in this area. I know you don't generally like logic or science or any kind of facts but yeah they work.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

People need to understand that wealth = health. if you dont have wealth you dont expect to live 100 years now do you. Its such a simple concept. Yet you have these seals happy clapping for lockdown announcements, going further saying "ohh you should have lockdown many more things".

This is incoherent ramblings.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I have never realized just how stupid and cowardly people are until this year. Willing to throw out their entire way of life for months and months (years soon) because of "cases" being announced to them. Cases. :rolleyes:

This is more incoherent ramblings.

Ginger n Lemon

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

So instead people like yourself and Jack with no training at all and have watched a few youtube videos are more qualified to fly the plane? You know better somehow?

Deleted User wrote: »

You mean the experts who saw China and then European countries locking down so just decided to copy them. Don’t really need a degree and a six figure salary to do that...

Thats the worst thing. Jac is correct.

Unfortunately it was wrong to copy other countries. Ireland has the youngest, YOUNGEST population of entire Europe. Our govt chose to lock up young people, make them obese, badly educated, angry, poorer, lonelier.

Who made decisions? Middle aged individuals, with six digit salary and guaranteed pension. Arrogant and incompetent. Solidarity is a term unknown to those individuals. Those individuals are hailed as "experts" when they have absolutely no experience in dealing with a pandemic.

And yet people still see absolutely no issues with this. That. is. horrifying.

Ginger n Lemon

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Yes, that is the nature of how the lockdown has worked and has been described all along. They keep the virus under control while we wait for a vaccine.

Spot on. March lockdown kept deaths and cases to a minimum and well under control.

:rolleyes:

Ironically enough March lockdown was the harshest. Very interesting.

Boggles

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I have never realized just how stupid and cowardly people are until this year.

Cowardly is ranting and raving constantly on the internet claiming we can just ignore a once in a generation pandemic and everything will be grand.

Well cowardly and delusional.

Ginger n Lemon

Boggles wrote: »

Cowardly is ranting and raving constantly on the internet claiming we can just ignore a once in a generation pandemic and everything will be grand.

Well cowardly and delusional.

Ohhh the irony.

On your bike. :pac:

Cyrus

TheTruth123 wrote: »

Agree i got a call asking why my kid hasnt been at school in 2 months.
I told them its not safe and they had nothing to say

whats not safe? how many school children have become seriously ill from covid, far more harm will be done taking them out of school.

I see sheep

Can food places still do takeaway when this new lockdown starts? Thanks

Necro

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Bottom line is - if lockdowns worked why would we need 3 lockdowns?

If masks worked, why does this disease spread uncontrollably the minute we re open?

People need to understand that wealth = health. if you dont have wealth you dont expect to live 100 years now do you. Its such a simple concept. Yet you have these seals happy clapping for lockdown announcements, going further saying "ohh you should have lockdown many more things".

I have never realized just how stupid and cowardly people are until this year. Willing to throw out their entire way of life for months and months (years soon) because of "cases" being announced to them. Cases. :rolleyes:

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Yes, that is the nature of how the lockdown has worked and has been described all along. They keep the virus under control while we wait for a vaccine.



Well, there have been controlled studies done in this area. I know you don't generally like logic or science or any kind of facts but yeah they work.



This is incoherent ramblings.



This is more incoherent ramblings.

Boggles wrote: »

Cowardly is ranting and raving constantly on the internet claiming we can just ignore a once in a generation pandemic and everything will be grand.

Well cowardly and delusional.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Ohhh the irony.

On your bike. :pac:

Mod:


Can all three of you kindly engage with each other in a civil manner - or better yet just ignore each other entirely?

Thanks

oldtimeyfella

People asking why we need another lockdown when the last ones "didn't work" because cases started rising again when the lockdowns were lifted have to be taking the piss.

No one could be that monumentally unintelligent. I refuse to believe it.

Poorside

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I dont agree with that.

Why do you call NPHET "experts"? Or Health minister? Or M Martin?

None of them are experts. 1 - 2 have a virology degree but thats just about that.

Expert is someone with actual experience to deal with issue at hand. No one in NPHET, nor government have any experience in dealing with an extremely mild pandemic 99.8% people of which recover from. They make it up as they go along.

You just chose to clap for them instead of anyone else. That doesnt make them "experts"

Might need to check your maths, 80 million cases with 1.7 million deaths, that a hell of a lot more than .02%.
I know, facts are a terrible thing when you're trying to push an agenda.

oldtimeyfella

Poorside wrote: »

Might need to check your maths, 80 million cases with 1.7 million deaths, that a hell of a lot more than .02%.
I know, facts are a terrible thing when you're trying to push an agenda.

"Bro, it's basically the flu!".

You'll never get through to some people.

theballz

oldtimeyfella wrote: »

People asking why we need another lockdown when the last ones "didn't work" because cases started rising again when the lockdowns were lifted have to be taking the piss.

No one could be that monumentally unintelligent. I refuse to believe it.

Abit extreme here, relax.

WHO Special Envoy on COVID-19 Dr David Nabarro said national lockdowns should only be used in “really extreme circumstances when things are very bad.”

Hospitals numbers are relatively okay at the moment so I can understand why people might question it. Lockdowns are an incredible burden on people (some moreso than others.)

Just because you are okay with it doesn’t mean others feel the same way.

Will you be losing her job come 24th of December?

Ginger n Lemon

Poorside wrote: »

Might need to check your maths, 80 million cases with 1.7 million deaths, that a hell of a lot more than .02%.
I know, facts are a terrible thing when you're trying to push an agenda.

Coronavirus: WHO estimates 10% of global population infected with COVID-19

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-who-estimates-10-of-global-population-infected-with-covid-19/a-55162783

A conservative estimate. way, way back on 5th of October. Fast forward 2.5 months it can be safely said that 1 billion people + already had covid. You put your death figure beside that figure and you ll soon realize that this is a very mild disease.

Itssoeasy

I think it’s a bad reflection on the government and NPHET that the only plan of action they have is lockdown. They had the support of the country nearly a year ago but that support is wearing I think because even with the best will in the world it has to. I mean despite what some say the vast majority of people in this country have adhered to the rules. I’m not saying they liked them or fully agreed with them but they did it. It’s been a very tough year for everyone in this country and with end in sight but the end in sight keeps moving.

Necro

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I think it’s a bad reflection on the government and NPHET that the only plan of action they have is lockdown. They had the support of the country nearly a year ago but that support is wearing I think because even with the best will in the world it has to. I mean despite what some say the vast majority of people in this country have adhered to the rules. I’m not saying they liked them or fully agreed with them but they did it. It’s been a very tough year for everyone in this country and with end in sight but the end in sight keeps moving.

Tbf, it's pretty much the only weapon any government the world over is using.