Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

everlast75

Deleted User wrote: »

And having large parties in hotels, not isolating, not wearing masks on public transport, and RTÉ having parties behind closed doors.

The people making the rules and reporting the situation are all on six figure salaries while they expect others to survive on crumbs.

So you are prepared to do what you want because others aren't?

_Kaiser_

See the other issue with all these restrictions and "recommendations", and the reason so many are just sick of it and ignoring most of it, is they aren't practical or realistic at all - take this latest nugget

Advice to people who have arrived from the UK since December 11 to isolate for 14 days means they should eat Christmas dinner alone in their bedroom, the HSE has said today.

Seriously? Who is going to do that?? Especially where they show no symptoms and based solely on them coming from the UK

Clonmel1000

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/people-who-arrived-from-britain-after-december-11-should-eat-christmas-dinner-alone-in-their-bedroom-hse-advises-39894300.html

everlast75

everlast75 wrote: »

So you are prepared to do what you want because others aren't?

Yes, I use my own judgement. I don’t need a doctor on a power trip to tell me how to live.

Boggles

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

See the other issue with all these restrictions and "recommendations", and the reason so many are just sick of it and ignoring most of it, is they aren't practical or realistic at all - take this latest nugget



Seriously? Who is going to do that?? Especially where they show no symptoms and based solely on them coming from the UK

Not very many imagine.

The pertinent question is though, how many will wish they did follow the advice?

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The same people who argued Christmas was some unmissable cosmic event can't really complain about the extent of restrictions coming as a result.

We all like Christmas but nobody will care about it on the 27th. It was never going to be worth it for the sake of one year.

If they do complain the answer will be straightforward from now on. This is what you asked for.

We can always complain about restrictions and many of us will until they are gone. And then we’ll complain that the economy was obliterated and we have to pay.

awec

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The same people who argued Christmas was some unmissable cosmic event can't really complain about the extent of restrictions coming as a result.

We all like Christmas but nobody will care about it on the 27th. It was never going to be worth it for the sake of one year.

If they do complain the answer will be straightforward from now on. This is what you asked for.

I'd say the overwhelming majority will be absolutely delighted they got to spend a bit of time with family for a few days Kermit.

Of course, the miserable will always be miserable, the pessimists will always be pessimists, christmas or no christmas.

everlast75

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, I use my own judgement. I don’t need a doctor on a power trip to tell me how to live.

Grand.

Sure you might as well do 120 on a 30 road. You use your own judgment. You know better.

FintanMcluskey

everlast75 wrote: »

Grand.

Sure you might as well do 120 on a 30 road. You use your own judgment. You know better.

Poor comparison.

Do you maintain your speed at 100kmh on all parts of the road or do you use judgement to slow down when danger arises?

Although judging by some comments here I imagine some posters would need someone telling them what to do at all times

Bunch of armchair immunologists claiming to know and understand the cause, effect and best way to respond to a once-in-a-lifetime disease better than *Checks notes*..... a group of scientists with background in immunology and virology and healthcare.

The mind boggles.

I'm sick and tired of rabble rousers claiming some grand conspiracy or another. I'm equally sick and tired of the idiots who think they know and understand data, to which they don't have access and are under-qualified to do so in any case, better than people whose job is to do just that.

Imagine you worked in McDonalds and some sh1tebag started shouting across the counter about how they'd seen videos on how to cook a burger, or that "Big Burger" was working behind the scenes to implant us all, or that the numbers of burgers being handed out were suspect or that people didn't need to wait for the chips to be cooked, they'd just pull them out of the fryer with their bare hands......sure, a number of people would injure themselves, but they were only the most vulnerable in society and were going to be injured at some stage anyway, fuhgeddabout it!

There are many valid criticisms to be leveled at this Government. Their decision to keep going back into lockdown, given the data at hand, is not one of them. STFU, wear your mask, limit your social interactions. If we all did it, we'd be fine.

Instead we're like a class of 9 year olds who've been told that we can only go to lunch when everyone stops talking. Half the class are continuing to talk while the rest are all shouting "Shush!".

TomTomTim

Deleted User wrote: »

Bunch of armchair immunologists claiming to know and understand the cause, effect and best way to respond to a once-in-a-lifetime disease better than *Checks notes*..... a group of scientists with background in immunology and virology and healthcare.

The mind boggles.

I'm sick and tired of rabble rousers claiming some grand conspiracy or another. I'm equally sick and tired of the idiots who think they know and understand data, to which they don't have access and are under-qualified to do so in any case, better than people whose job is to do just that.

Imagine you worked in McDonalds and some sh1tebag started shouting across the counter about how they'd seen videos on how to cook a burger, or that "Big Burger" was working behind the scenes to implant us all, or that the numbers of burgers being handed out were suspect or that people didn't need to wait for the chips to be cooked, they'd just pull them out of the fryer with their bare hands......sure, a number of people would injure themselves, but they were only the most vulnerable in society and were going to be injured at some stage anyway, fuhgeddabout it!

There are many valid criticisms to be leveled at this Government. Their decision to keep going back into lockdown, given the data at hand, is not one of them. STFU, wear your mask, limit your social interactions. If we all did it, we'd be fine.

Instead we're like a class of 9 year olds who've been told that we can only go to lunch when everyone stops talking. Half the class are continuing to talk while the rest are all shouting "Shush!".

What nonsense. Most people have done the above, yet there's been little change. Your post is beyond ironic.

HeidiHeidi

Deleted User wrote: »

There are many valid criticisms to be leveled at this Government. Their decision to keep going back into lockdown, given the data at hand, is not one of them. STFU, wear your mask, limit your social interactions. If we all did it, we'd be fine.

Instead we're like a class of 9 year olds who've been told that we can only go to lunch when everyone stops talking. Half the class are continuing to talk while the rest are all shouting "Shush!".

Brilliant :

HeidiHeidi

TomTomTim wrote: »

What nonsense. Most people have done the above, yet there's been little change. Your post is beyond ironic.

Clearly not enough people have done it, given where we are right now.

Eric Cartman

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

LOL. Required.

If you are of the mindset to travel you are not of the mindset to isolate.

Realistically all flight should have ended 14 days before christmas eve, anyone coming in after that had absolutely 0 intention of isolating.

Theyre not flying home to sit alone christmas day

_Kaiser_

everlast75 wrote: »

Grand.

Sure you might as well do 120 on a 30 road. You use your own judgment. You know better.

I've said this before but "we're all in this together" is NOT the same as "everyone is in this with me"

You cannot force people to feel the same level of concern or risk to an issue that my not impact on them (or impact differently) due to their circumstances being different to yours

There is nothing stopping ANYONE who is worried or in circumstances where they need to protect themselves or a vulnerable relative from taking whatever precautions they like... but it doesn't mean that everyone else should do the same things or be abused because their situation is not as serious.

Elmer Blooker

Deleted User wrote: »

We can always complain about restrictions and many of us will until they are gone. And then we’ll complain that the economy was obliterated and we have to pay.

There are people out there (and I've met quite a few) who repeat stuff like 'money is cheap' like robots when I ask who's paying for all of this.
More often than not when these robots can't answer my questions I get the predictable 'you sound like Gemma O'Doherty' idiotic replies.

Watch stealth taxes being introduced to pay for this in 2021. These taxes will be sold to us as 'green' or 'environmental' taxes.

facehugger99

everlast75 wrote: »

Grand.

Sure you might as well do 120 on a 30 road. You use your own judgment. You know better.

Kinda proving the opposite point TBH.

If you drive at 120kph just because that's the speed limit and without using your own judgement as to the weather conditions, traffic volumes and other factors, you are a dangerous idiot. Do you actually think speed limits are the speed you should be driving at the whole time?

I'm not going to follow the 'rules' that some bureaucrat has dreamt up - I'll be using my own judgement - it's called thinking for yourself. It'd be no harm if a few more people tried it.

TomTomTim

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Clearly not enough people have done it, given where we are right now.

It's not clear at all though, no matter how much people like you try and frame it as being so.

HeidiHeidi

TomTomTim wrote: »

It's not clear at all though, no matter how much people like you try and frame it as being so.

I think it is.

YMMV

And who are "people like me", exactly?

* Awaits lockdown fan stereotype cliche

_Kaiser_

Deleted User wrote: »

Bunch of armchair immunologists claiming to know and understand the cause, effect and best way to respond to a once-in-a-lifetime disease better than *Checks notes*..... a group of scientists with background in immunology and virology and healthcare.

The mind boggles.

I'm sick and tired of rabble rousers claiming some grand conspiracy or another. I'm equally sick and tired of the idiots who think they know and understand data, to which they don't have access and are under-qualified to do so in any case, better than people whose job is to do just that.

Imagine you worked in McDonalds and some sh1tebag started shouting across the counter about how they'd seen videos on how to cook a burger, or that "Big Burger" was working behind the scenes to implant us all, or that the numbers of burgers being handed out were suspect or that people didn't need to wait for the chips to be cooked, they'd just pull them out of the fryer with their bare hands......sure, a number of people would injure themselves, but they were only the most vulnerable in society and were going to be injured at some stage anyway, fuhgeddabout it!

There are many valid criticisms to be leveled at this Government. Their decision to keep going back into lockdown, given the data at hand, is not one of them. STFU, wear your mask, limit your social interactions. If we all did it, we'd be fine.

Instead we're like a class of 9 year olds who've been told that we can only go to lunch when everyone stops talking. Half the class are continuing to talk while the rest are all shouting "Shush!".

What is just as boggling is the faith that people like yourself are placing in the same "experts" who have completely mismanaged the health service for the last few decades, overseen scandal after scandal, and squandered the ever increasing budgets they are given with very little improvement to show for it.

Why some think these same people are suddenly on top of CV-19 (especially after the nursing home debacle in the early stages) is frankly astonishing.

Ginger n Lemon

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I think it is.

YMMV

And who are "people like me", exactly?

* Awaits lockdown fan stereotype cliche

Most covid cases in hospitals have picked up covid in the hospital.

If we are failing at NOT spreading covid in the hospitals with HSE staff and their PPE, what hope do we have for entire 4,900,000 population that includes children etc?

TomTomTim

TomTomTim wrote: »

What nonsense. Most people have done the above, yet there's been little change. Your post is beyond ironic.

Correct. Most, not all.

So because we all couldn't behave, we're forced to behave.

_Kaiser_

Deleted User wrote: »

Correct. Most, not all.

So because we all couldn't behave, we're forced to behave.

"Behave".. what condescending nonsense.

You're complaining about people going to work, school, shopping, meeting loved ones - all perfectly normal, reasonable and indeed essential activities.

The ones who need to "behave" (or more accurately, take necessary precautions) are the minority of people who are actually at risk from CV-19, not the overwhelming majority who aren't (and many of whom have to be told they have it before they realise it).

Again, "we're all in this together" is not the same as "everyone is in this with me"

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

There is nothing stopping ANYONE who is worried or in circumstances where they need to protect themselves or a vulnerable relative from taking whatever precautions they like... but it doesn't mean that everyone else should do the same things or be abused because their situation is not as serious.

For how long should these vulnerable folks protect themselves? Indefinitely? The whole point of the restrictions etc. is that we all take a (what should be) small hit so that those at risk don't have to take it all upon themselves. You are asking people to do something continuously for months which you yourself are unwilling to do for a few weeks at a time.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

What is just as boggling is the faith that people like yourself are placing in the same "experts" who have completely mismanaged the health service for the last few decades, overseen scandal after scandal, and squandered the ever increasing budgets they are given with very little improvement to show for it..

What's the alternative?
Ignore everything they say?
Pick an choose which parts you want to comply with and ignore the rest?
Sack them all and get a load of newbies in and listen to them?
Or sit back and bitch and moan that those who are infinitely more qualified to do the job than you yourself might be, aren't fit to lace your boots?

If we, the people of Ireland, had such strong feelings about the HSE beforehand, then the time to oust them was then. Now we're in a crisis, and these folks, whether you like it or not, have been appointed to steer us clear of this mess. No point complaining about the driving history of your ambulance driver as he's rushing you to the hospital, really, is there?

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Why some think these same people are suddenly on top of CV-19 (especially after the nursing home debacle in the early stages) is frankly astonishing.

Like I said, there are many and varied reasons to criticise the Govt. They aren't on top of anything, at the moment, but that's because they're hoping for buy-in from the general public and, as the old saying goes, "hope in one hand and sh1t in the other...see which hand fills up first".

JRant

everlast75 wrote: »

Read my post again. I said in the months leading up to his passing I didn't - he was in a nursing home and I wasn't aware that he was going to pass away.

When we found out he was going, we were of course permitted to.

I'm not going into my situation further, but I will ask you this.

Outside of your dad's situation, have you decided to breach guidelines or rules, and used your disagreement with how the government/hse/nphet have conducted themselves as an excuse.

Again - just curious.

As I said, I wasn't judging you on what you've done. The climate was different a number of months ago and I'm sorry for your loss.

To be perfectly honest, COVID or not, I was acting accordingly, and limiting where I went and who I saw. For the simple reason that any respiratory illness would be very bad news for my father. It's not just COVID, it's the flu, a chest infection or even a cold would probably do him in. He's that fragile and like a lot of people like him it would not take much for his body to completely shutdown. But, here's the thing, I didn't need the government to shutdown the entire country for me and our family to do what was required to protect him. If he had of picked up something it wouldn't have been for the lack of us trying to protect. Some times sick people get sick, often a lot easier than the rest of us as their immune system is already severely compromised.

What we need is rapid testing so people can take one a couple of times a week at home (forget about contact tracing) and enough of us will do the right thing, isolate, and stop it spreading. The people who will carry-on regardless don't care about testing or tracking but there are enough decent people to make it work for everyone.

everlast75

everlast75 wrote: »

Grand.

Sure you might as well do 120 on a 30 road. You use your own judgment. You know better.

Yep, I do believe that I know me and my circumstances better than anybody else.

I’m close to a country border. So I can travel for just a few mins and breach the rules or travel a lot further and not breach the rules. Which one is better in your opinion?

If I really tried, I could give lots of examples of breaking the rules but been safer than following them.

Boggles

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

"Behave".. what condescending nonsense.

You're complaining about people going to work, school, shopping, meeting loved ones - all perfectly normal, reasonable and indeed essential activities.

The ones who need to "behave" (or more accurately, take necessary precautions) are the minority of people who are actually at risk from CV-19, not the overwhelming majority who aren't (and many of whom have to be told they have it before they realise it).

Again, "we're all in this together" is not the same as "everyone is in this with me"

Vaccines have been approved and still people are pushing the herd immunity, lock up the vulnerable, let it rinse through method of pandemic control.

All those charlatans pushing that idea have since fúcked off, but here we are.

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

"Behave".. what condescending nonsense.

You're complaining about people going to work, school, shopping, meeting loved ones - all perfectly normal, reasonable and indeed essential activities.

The ones who need to "behave" (or more accurately, take necessary precautions) are the minority of people who are actually at risk from CV-19, not the overwhelming majority who aren't (and many of whom have to be told they have it before they realise it).

Again, "we're all in this together" is not the same as "everyone is in this with me"

"Behave" in this instance was merely a turn of phrase, in keeping with the schoolyard bullcrap from earlier. Comply is probably a better choice of words.

And no, I'm not talking about people going to work, etc. I'm talking about that gaff party in Waterford with 95 people at it, or the petrolheads last week with 800 idiots meeting up, or the anti-mask crowd congregating every second week to flog their ill-educated, xenophobic, racist bolloxology to all the weak-minded simpletons who call everyone else sheep.

It doesn't matter if you have to be told you have it. If you have it, you can pass it on to someone else for whom it might not be so benign. Plus, the more of a spread a virus undertakes, the higher the chance of mutation. If you leave it spread uncontrollably amongst those who have to be told they have it, then the higher the chance of it mutating into something much more sinister.

JRant

[Deleted User] wrote: »

For how long should these vulnerable folks protect themselves? Indefinitely? The whole point of the restrictions etc. is that we all take a (what should be) small hit so that those at risk don't have to take it all upon themselves. You are asking people to do something continuously for months which you yourself are unwilling to do for a few weeks at a time.



What's the alternative?
Ignore everything they say?
Pick an choose which parts you want to comply with and ignore the rest?
Sack them all and get a load of newbies in and listen to them?
Or sit back and bitch and moan that those who are infinitely more qualified to do the job than you yourself might be, aren't fit to lace your boots?

If we, the people of Ireland, had such strong feelings about the HSE beforehand, then the time to oust them was then. Now we're in a crisis, and these folks, whether you like it or not, have been appointed to steer us clear of this mess. No point complaining about the driving history of your ambulance driver as he's rushing you to the hospital, really, is there?



Like I said, there are many and varied reasons to criticise the Govt. They aren't on top of anything, at the moment, but that's because they're hoping for buy-in from the general public and, as the old saying goes, "hope in one hand and sh1t in the other...see which hand fills up first".

To answer your first point, of course vulnerable people should always be looking to protect themselves. I mean, that goes without saying. Even when the vaccine gets fully rolled out they are going to have to take certain measures to protect themselves. Unfortunately, that's just the way it is for a lot of those people. Why do you think hospitals and nursing homes limit visits every winter when there is a flu outbreak?

The problem with your second point is that there are more experts out now who are coming out with alternatives on how this can be managed. They are being ignored by NPHET, christ NPHET are even ignoring WHO and the ECDC at this stage.

So, who's right, and who's wrong?
I wouldn't even pretend to know the ins and outs of this thing but what I do know is that the current strategy has failed and will fail again. Maybe, we should try a new approach.

Boggles

JRant wrote: »

To answer your first point, of course vulnerable people should always be looking to protect themselves.

Have you had Covid?