Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Windmill100000

The focus should be on deaths, not cases. How many in total are hospitalised currently? Most are being treated in standard, albeit isolated wards. Most of these will recover and go home. It's the ICU numbers that are critical. If there are, for example, 30 people in ICUs nationwide at the moment, we are not going to see daily spikes of 20 deaths.

And why are we all locking down if flights are going to continue to come in? If you think all people will land here and isolate, you are deluded.

_Kaiser_

froog wrote: »

If you stay away from people you can't get the virus. This is the theory behind lockdowns. My god like a child can understand this.

So predictable.. Ignore the substance of the reply in favour of a tired one liner and personal insults.

I don't just mean you. It's a common theme with all those who are challenged about the effectiveness of lockdowns.

But let's take your reply as written.. What's equally as obvious is that you can't run a country, economy or society on the basis of hiding away from each other long-term, but that said if you feel safer by doing so work away. No one is preventing you or anyone else from restricting your interactions.

Just realise that you can't expect everyone else to hide away with you - especially those who are at minimal risk from CV-19 and whose lives and livelihood depend on those very things you are complaining about.

facehugger99

froog wrote: »

My god like a child can understand this.

A simple solution designed to appeal to the simple-minded.

niallo27

froog wrote: »

If you stay away from people you can't get the virus. This is the theory behind lockdowns. My god like a child can understand this.

So are you saying that anyone that got this virus has the mind of a child and can't follow simple advice and it's completely their fault.

Windmill100000

niallo27 wrote: »

So are you saying that anyone that got this virus has the mind of a child and can't follow simple advice and it's completely their fault.

No one can stay away from people indefinitely anyway. Even those getting food delivered are touching products someone else has handled.

To date, we have had 2,200 deaths out of a population of approx 5million. I'm sure some of these people died with covid but were hospitalised for other life-threatening conditions.

This is 0.04% of people in Ireland that have died of/with covid.

My maths is not great so if this is wrong, please correct. Thanks.

Happydays2020

Good article by Cormac Lucey in the Sunday Times today.

Key points:

- we have been taken over by hysteria and fear.
- the virus is nowhere near as deadly as feared. IFR is only 0.23% - lockdown strategy was mandated back in March by an expected 3% rate.
- RTÉ has been hysterical and unbalanced in its reporting.
- according to a U.K. Govt report the costs of lockdown exceed the Qalys of direct Covid 19 deaths. This is the test used to determine whether drugs should be bought or not.
- the young are shouldering the cost of a virus which does not affect them.
- Dept of Health are ruling the roost in terms of decision making.

I have said before there will need to be a massive public enquiry. Madness that people are calling for even more restrictions where little risk exists.

Lundstram

Varadkar on the news this morning asked about the 4 delay of injecting the vaccine. "I'm not sure but we will catch up".

I knew these idiots would royally fcuk this up but they have out done themselves. 10,000 of the most important vaccines the world has ever seen sitting in a fridge for four days because no one had the foresight to plan ahead.

The sheer incompetency is startling.

_Kaiser_

Lundstram wrote: »

Varadkar on the news this morning asked about the 4 delay of injecting the vaccine. "I'm not sure but we will catch up".

I knew these idiots would royally fcuk this up but they have out done themselves. 10,000 of the most important vaccines the world has ever seen sitting in a fridge for four days because no one had the foresight to plan ahead.

The sheer incompetency is startling.

Is it not worse than that? Doesn't the vaccine only have a few days of shelf life anyway? Will they be dumping half of what they received by the delay?

Lundstram

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Is it not worse than that? Doesn't the vaccine only have a few days of shelf life anyway? Will they be dumping half of what they received by the delay?

No, it'll be fine once stored at the correct temperature.

froog

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Is it not worse than that? Doesn't the vaccine only have a few days of shelf life anyway? Will they be dumping half of what they received by the delay?

Ah ffs, do a bit of reading will you.

Lundstram

Lundstram wrote: »

Varadkar on the news this morning asked about the 4 delay of injecting the vaccine. "I'm not sure but we will catch up".

I knew these idiots would royally fcuk this up but they have out done themselves. 10,000 of the most important vaccines the world has ever seen sitting in a fridge for four days because no one had the foresight to plan ahead.

The sheer incompetency is startling.

Sad day for the country when thousands in the private sector are forced out of work due to a “crisis” but we can’t even start vaccinating because Christmas holidays for the public sector.

I’d say they are delighted we only got 10000.

Surely someone can manage that until the rest return in January.

_Kaiser_

froog wrote: »

Ah ffs, do a bit of reading will you.

Ah don't throw your toys out of the pram because you weren't able to answer my earlier post.

I did do some reading, and this is why I asked

Once a POU receives a thermal shipper with our vaccine, they have three options for storage:
- Ultra-low-temperature freezers, which are commercially available and can extend shelf life for up to six months.
- The Pfizer thermal shippers, in which doses will arrive, that can be used as temporary storage units by refilling with dry ice every five days for up to 30 days of storage.
- Refrigeration units that are commonly available in hospitals. The vaccine can be stored for five days at refrigerated 2-8°C conditions.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/hot-topics/covid_19_vaccine_u_s_distribution_fact_sheet#:~:text=%2D%20The%20Pfizer%20thermal%20shippers%2C%20in,2%2D8%C2%B0C%20conditions.


Hopefully they're using one of the other 2 storage methods then

Nonoperational

Not sure why there is all the nonsense about giving the vaccine. Just get on with it. I’m a hospital doctor and I’ll gladly sit in a room for an evening shift or a weekend day, or a few days in lieu of my regular job and operate as a vaccine robot. I know a load of colleagues would do the same. They just need to get the support in place for record keeping etc and if they ask HCWs to vaccinate they’ll do it. They might need to relax the requirements to do a special course of whatever but we have all given many many IM injections before.

Penfailed

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Is it not worse than that? Doesn't the vaccine only have a few days of shelf life anyway? Will they be dumping half of what they received by the delay?

No, it's not worse than that. The vaccine doesn't only have a few days of shelf life. They won't be dumping half of what they've received.

_Kaiser_

Penfailed wrote: »

No, it's not worse than that. The vaccine doesn't only have a few days of shelf life. They won't be dumping half of what they've received.

Already responded to above

Penfailed

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Already responded to above

I've just seen that. Cheers.

Necro

froog wrote: »

If you stay away from people you can't get the virus. This is the theory behind lockdowns. My god like a child can understand this.

facehugger99 wrote: »

A simple solution designed to appeal to the simple-minded.

Mod:

If the pair of you can't stay civil your posting access will be removed from this thread.

FintanMcluskey

froog wrote: »

Ah ffs, do a bit of reading will you.

Talk about arrogance

He asked a question, a genuine one at that.

Should Simon Harris do a bit of reading?

Strumms

facehugger99 wrote: »

A simple solution designed to appeal to the simple-minded.

A simple solution designed to halt / slow the spread of covid.

The only contacts people should be having are ones that are actually 100% necessary and distanced where possible ... over ones they just desire, want etc. ..

Simple minded is only a phrase that needs to be fûcked at those selfish fûckwits who have ignored public health advice and are acting and behaving in a manner that can or will facilitate death and illness through the spread of covid.

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Talk about arrogance

He asked a question, a genuine one at that.

Should Simon Harris do a bit of reading?

Arrogance...or exasperation? It's can be very frustrating when mistruths are framed as questions in order to skew the narrative.

froog

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Talk about arrogance

He asked a question, a genuine one at that.

Should Simon Harris do a bit of reading?

you're right. asking whether ireland would be throwing out half the vaccines after a few days is a perfectly valid question. :rolleyes:

oldtimeyfella

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Good article by Cormac Lucey in the Sunday Times today.

Key points:

- we have been taken over by hysteria and fear.
- the virus is nowhere near as deadly as feared. IFR is only 0.23% - lockdown strategy was mandated back in March by an expected 3% rate.
- RTÉ has been hysterical and unbalanced in its reporting.
- according to a U.K. Govt report the costs of lockdown exceed the Qalys of direct Covid 19 deaths. This is the test used to determine whether drugs should be bought or not.
- the young are shouldering the cost of a virus which does not affect them.
- Dept of Health are ruling the roost in terms of decision making.

I have said before there will need to be a massive public enquiry. Madness that people are calling for even more restrictions where little risk exists.

I always look to chartered accountants for guidance about pandemics.

Lundstram

Penfailed wrote: »

Arrogance...or exasperation? It's can be very frustrating when mistruths are framed as questions in order to skew the narrative.

You're being silly now. He posted a link regarding his concerns. It was a valid question.

The one-liner brigade are nitpicking at good informative posts but not dealing with the actual issues.

facehugger99

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Good article by Cormac Lucey in the Sunday Times today.

Great article - Lucey is right more often than wrong and his Brexit article last week nailed it too.

The key line for me was "Immense costs are imposed on the public to prevent political embarrassment to the government".


We will make millionaires out of dozens of barristers in the next few years (or probably decades in our case) as the tribunals of inquiry are held into the spectacular mismanagement of our response to a virus that is pretty much harmless.

Of course nobody will be ever held to account.

While social-media has been a key driver of the response, the actions of RTE in constantly and relentlessly driving the hysteria has been beyond abhorrent.

facehugger99

oldtimeyfella wrote: »

I always look to chartered accountants for guidance about pandemics.

Sure why would you need to listen to someone who understand finances?

You can pay for everything with free-money, right?

calfmuscle

facehugger99 wrote: »

Great article - Lucey is right more often than wrong and his Brexit article last week nailed it too.

The key line for me was "Immense costs are imposed on the public to prevent political embarrassment to the government".


We will make millionaires out of dozens of barristers in the next few years (or probably decades in our case) as the tribunals of inquiry are held into the spectacular mismanagement of our response to a virus that is pretty much harmless.

Of course nobody will be ever held to account.

While social-media has been a key driver of the response, the actions of RTE in constantly and relentlessly driving the hysteria has been beyond abhorrent.

I just read Luceys article on covid, it's astonishing he got paid to write that. Shows a complete lack of insight into covid and is based one statistic that has so many variables it is almost useless. It amazes me that so far into this pandemic people are still so ignorant.

Windmill100000

facehugger99 wrote: »

While social-media has been a key driver of the response, the actions of RTE in constantly and relentlessly driving the hysteria has been beyond abhorrent.

I agree with this. It's been appalling.

_Kaiser_

facehugger99 wrote: »

Sure why would you need to listen to someone who understand finances?

You can pay for everything with free-money, right?

It's also no different to listening to George Lee on RTE every night, or some of the other "experts" who are in fields that are nothing to do with viral studies. Even Holohan himself is not an expert... a GP and administrator.

acequion

Speaking of articles, just reading yesterday's Indo, a thrashy publication at the best of times and one I wouldn't waste money buying but it being xmas, all sorts of papers and magazines are being bought and lying around. So am reading about how mehole is "hopeful" that next summer will see a "degree of normality" return. And the more I read, the more I detect the cowardly extreme over cautiousness in that gombeen who unfortunately runs the country's tone, the more my heart is sinking. Like this one for example, "in terms of where we are right now it's reasonable to say that some of the restrictions in some of the sectors will be for the longer haul." So is he telling us that pubs and restaurants and maybe hairdressers too can forget at least the first half of 2021!! If so then it really is beyond outlandish and people should not stand for it. People in those sectors need to start feeling and voicing real anger and real opposition, and the rest of us as well, as the cost of all this will be horrendous.

What appalls me is that gone is all pretence at acknowledging that extreme restrictions are dysfunctional and damaging and should only be used as a last resort. And in has come a normalistion of these dysfunctional conditions. As a poster said it really is all about protecting weak ineffective politicians and the likes of mehole can now confidently spout out the kind of ultra conservative, cowardly but very punitive garbage that would have been unthinkable only a year ago.

Some posters here think that one day there will be an enquiry into all this. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one either. Unthinkable as it is there are a lot of people out there, and we see it here on this thread, who support this crazy policy. And when the dust has settled those same politicians will claim that the kept the hospitals from getting overwhelmed, saved lives and kept schools open, therefore they are superheroes. The enormous collateral damage will be swept well in under the carpet. And this being Ireland nobody will be held to account for that, the likes of mehole will be retired on a massive pension and it will be years of economic misery once again on ordinary citizens.

LessOutragePlz

calfmuscle wrote: »

I just read Luceys article on covid, it's astonishing he got paid to write that. Shows a complete lack of insight into covid and is based one statistic that has so many variables it is almost useless. It amazes me that so far into this pandemic people are still so ignorant.

This a typical response to someone that holds a different viewpoint about the situation so, because he holds a different point of view and expressed it he is ignorant.

It's laughable really we needed a balanced debate about the situation and our response to it but, that never happened or will never happen due to the attitude of this poster and many others who simply refuse to listen to or acknowledge the validity of the opinion of a person that disagrees with our response to the pandemic or seeks to highlight the economic costs of the restrictions that have been implemented.