Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

_Kaiser_

acequion wrote: »

Speaking of articles, just reading yesterday's Indo, a thrashy publication at the best of times and one I wouldn't waste money buying but it being xmas, all sorts of papers and magazines are being bought and lying around. So am reading about how mehole is "hopeful" that next summer will see a "degree of normality" return. And the more I read, the more I detect the cowardly extreme over cautiousness in that gombeen who unfortunately runs the country's tone, the more my heart is sinking. Like this one for example, "in terms of where we are right now it's reasonable to say that some of the restrictions in some of the sectors will be for the longer haul." So is he telling us that pubs and restaurants and maybe hairdressers too can forget at least the first half of 2021!! If so then it really is beyond outlandish and people should not stand for it. People in those sectors need to start feeling and voicing real anger and real opposition, and the rest of us as well, as the cost of all this will be horrendous.

What appalls me is that gone is all pretence at acknowledging that extreme restrictions are dysfunctional and damaging and should only be used as a last resort. And in has come a normalistion of these dysfunctional conditions. As a poster said it really is all about protecting weak ineffective politicians and the likes of mehole can now confidently spout out the kind of ultra conservative, cowardly but very punitive garbage that would have been unthinkable only a year ago.

Some posters here think that one day there will be an enquiry into all this. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one either. Unthinkable as it is there are a lot of people out there, and we see it here on this thread, who support this crazy policy. And when the dust has settled those same politicians will claim that the kept the hospitals from getting overwhelmed, saved lives and kept schools open, therefore they are superheroes. The enormous collateral damage will be swept well in under the carpet. And this being Ireland nobody will be held to account for that, the likes of mehole will be retired on a massive pension and it will be years of economic misery once again on ordinary citizens.

All true and part of the reason for Martin's attitude I reckon is that he, like many of the other key decision makers involved - like Holohan - are in that more vulnerable category themselves or likely have family or loved ones who are. It undoubtedly colours their views and skews their objectivity on the impacts and courses of action.

Plus, most of them aren't experts - neither the politicians or Holohan himself - they are administrators in a system that conditions people to just keep the head down and plug away until retirement. All they have to do is go along with the "consensus" or populist opinion and they can see themselves to retirement and easy street.

But as you say, it'll be the generations behind them that pick up the tab for their excessively conservative actions so who cares right? It's the same as how the ladder was pulled up during the Financial Crisis/Austerity Years, and it'll be repeated again before we know it.

calfmuscle

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

This a typical response to someone that holds a different viewpoint about the situation so, because he holds a different point of view and expressed it he is ignorant.

It's laughable really we needed a balanced debate about the situation and our response to it but, that never happened or will never happen due to the attitude of this poster and many others who simply refuse to listen to or acknowledge the validity of the opinion of a person that disagrees with our response to the pandemic or seeks to highlight the economic costs of the restrictions that have been implemented.

There is no validity to his article or opinion. Its based on one statistic that does not reflect the reality of the situation. Its based solely on a mortality rate of 0.23 percent. However that rate is achieved with medical treatment. The entire point of the restrictions we have all endured was to ensure when people become infected they can access treatment. This has so far been achieved.
The article makes no comment on the longer term affects and disabilities that some people are being left with post covid.
Also we all know that some countries data is being skwewed and cannot be relied on to accurate. We may never know the true mortality rates of this pandemic.

the kelt

We are in a very serious situation, we need to act now, the virus is getting out of control, we are deeply deeply worried, time is of the essence now so reduce your contacts and follow public health guidelines now, the situation is escalating at a rapid rate, we need you now as a matter of urgency to consider your actions over the next number of weeks, very serious now, you cannot have a normal Christmas, no time to wait, we must act now and can’t afford any delay........

The vaccine yeah got is yesterday, got the photo ops out of the way nice and smoothly. Rollout of the vaccine.. ah tis Christmas, shur it’ll be grand to start there in 4 or 5 days, shur what’s the panic, just stay at home and stop questioning us and we will all be grand!

Glenomra

calfmuscle wrote: »

There is no validity to his article or opinion. Its based on one statistic that does not reflect the reality of the situation. Its based solely on a mortality rate of 0.23 percent. However that rate is achieved with medical treatment. The entire point of the restrictions we have all endured was to ensure when people become infected they can access treatment. This has so far been achieved.
The article makes no comment on the longer term affects and disabilities that some people are being left with post covid.
Also we all know that some countries data is being skwewed and cannot be relied on to accurate. We may never know the true mortality rates of this pandemic.

Wonderful article by Lucey. Identified the needless hysteria which is especially evident in Ireland.

LessOutragePlz

calfmuscle wrote: »

There is no validity to his article or opinion. Its based on one statistic that does not reflect the reality of the situation. Its based solely on a mortality rate of 0.23 percent. However that rate is achieved with medical treatment. The entire point of the restrictions we have all endured was to ensure when people become infected they can access treatment. This has so far been achieved.
The article makes no comment on the longer term affects and disabilities that some people are being left with post covid.
Also we all know that some countries data is being skwewed and cannot be relied on to accurate. We may never know the true mortality rates of this pandemic.

What mortality rate would you expect him to use?

He's working with the data that is available at the moment.

His points are very valid, all of these restrictions will come at some economic cost or, are you denying that there will be no economic impact due to the restrictions?

This discussion needs to be had whether you like it or not and trying to disregard his opinion says a lot about your character and the character of the posters that agree with your point of view.

How long can we continue to ignore the economic impact that the restrictions will have in the years to come?

calfmuscle

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

What mortality rate would you expect him to use?

He's working with the data that is available at the moment.

His points are very valid, all of these restrictions will come at some economic cost or, are you denying that there will be no economic impact due to the restrictions?

This discussion needs to be had whether you like it or not and trying to disregard his opinion says a lot about your character and the character of the posters that agree with your point of view.

How long can we continue to ignore the economic impact that the restrictions will have in the years to come?

I'd expect him to use more than one statistic and to explore why the mortality rate is so much lower now than at the start of the pandemic. That would be a more balanced and informed article. That mortality rate is that low because of the restrictions he's arguing against.

The economic impacts have been discussed everyday since this began and will continue long after its over. To try to belittle the serious cost to life and health says alot about your character and the character of posters that agree with your point of view.

MOH

froog wrote: »

If you stay away from people you can't get the virus. This is the theory behind lockdowns. My god like a child can understand this.

The child would probably be a bit confused by the fact this apparently doesn't apply to all the other children they interact with 5 days a week, due the constant insistence that schools are safe. Because magic pixie dust supposedly protects them. Despite the whole "second wave" kicking off as soon as schools re-opened.

LessOutragePlz

calfmuscle wrote: »

I'd expect him to use more than one statistic and to explore why the mortality rate is so much lower now than at the start of the pandemic. That would be a more balanced and informed article. That mortality rate is that low because of the restrictions he's arguing against.

The economic impacts have been discussed everyday since this began and will continue long after its over. To try to belittle the serious cost to life and health says alot about your character and the character of posters that agree with your point of view.

Show me where I belittled the cost of life and health?

Another typical response of a person that is so ingrained in their viewpoint that anyone that disagrees with them doesn't care about the deaths or the impact it has had on people's health.

Have you stopped to consider that maybe just maybe the mortality rate wasn't as bad as it was first predicted to be?

It's the usual story really we can't even discuss the economic impact of the restrictions without being called callous cold blooded granny killers.

No point engaging with you any further as you certainly aren't going to change your point view based on your previous posts.

FrStone

Strumms wrote: »

A simple solution designed to halt / slow the spread of covid.

The only contacts people should be having are ones that are actually 100% necessary and distanced where possible ... over ones they just desire, want etc. ..

Simple minded is only a phrase that needs to be fûcked at those selfish fûckwits who have ignored public health advice and are acting and behaving in a manner that can or will facilitate death and illness through the spread of covid.

Ah, I shouldn't bite, but I will.

Who in their right mind is foolish enough to think that people will comply with only having 100% necessary contacts. You can't base a policy on this. Surely its the one thing we should have learned by now that this is completely unworkable. Most people have spent the past few days socialising. All closing social outlets has done its move socialising into people's homes.

the kelt

froog wrote: »

If you stay away from people you can't get the virus. This is the theory behind lockdowns. My god like a child can understand this.

Funnily enough even my own children have started questioning things, they’re 7 and 8.

Like when they are told they can’t go and see what their cousins got from Santa because you have to stay away from people but have spent the last few months sitting in a room for hours on end everyone unmasked at the same table and that’s grand?

So yeah maybe it’s encouraging that children understand about non sensical situations enough to question why, rather than sit like a nodding dog in the back window of a car insisting you just obey!

Idbatterim

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Good article by Cormac Lucey in the Sunday Times today.

Key points:

- we have been taken over by hysteria and fear.
- the virus is nowhere near as deadly as feared. IFR is only 0.23% - lockdown strategy was mandated back in March by an expected 3% rate.
- RTÉ has been hysterical and unbalanced in its reporting.
- according to a U.K. Govt report the costs of lockdown exceed the Qalys of direct Covid 19 deaths. This is the test used to determine whether drugs should be bought or not.
- the young are shouldering the cost of a virus which does not affect them.
- Dept of Health are ruling the roost in terms of decision making.

I have said before there will need to be a massive public enquiry. Madness that people are calling for even more restrictions where little risk exists.

A public enquiry? Will never happen, they have all the cover they need. Freak global event, unprecedented. Acted in best faith, jesus I'll script the bull**** response for them if needs be, it's so predictable. I'll laugh though in 2 or 3 years when cost of this becomes apparent to the masses, save lives at all costs, until these hypocrites start crying about no welfare increases etc as they wont be affordable

weldoninhio

Idbatterim wrote: »

A public enquiry? Will never happen, they have all the cover they need. Freak global event, unprecedented. Acted in best faith, jesus I'll script the ull**** response for them of needs be, it's so predictable. I'll laught though in 2 or 3 years when cost of this becomes apparent to the masses, save lives at all costs, until these hypocrites start crying about no welfare increases etc as they winter he affordable

Every other country in EU has started vaccinations as soon as they received the medication. No Paddyland though, this deadly pandemic can wait until the bank holiday is over!!

Lundstram

weldoninhio wrote: »

Every other country in EU has started vaccinations as soon as they received the medication. No Paddyland though, this deadly pandemic can wait until the bank holiday is over!!

Overtime and planning for Gardai to hold up and annoy people on their way to and from work was no problem at all.

However, getting medical workers to do some emergency work over the public holidays is an impossible task.

They're scared sh1tless of the unions that guard HSE members. The cowards don't want to rock that boat.

All the sacrifices made by us all and this is the thanks we get.

Lundstram

I honestly cannot believe some of the crap on this thread, but this has to be the lowest of the low.

Lundstram wrote: »

However, getting medical workers to do some emergency work over the public holidays is an impossible task.

Our medical workers have been working flat out for the last ten months and you're complaining that they're not working over Christmas? Is this the thanks you're giving them?

Lundstram wrote: »

All the sacrifices made by us all and this is the thanks we get.

What thanks do you think is owed to you?

Un-****ing-believable.

FintanMcluskey

Deleted User wrote: »

I honestly cannot believe some of the crap on this thread, but this has to be the lowest of the low.



Our medical workers have been working flat out for the last ten months and you're complaining that they're not working over Christmas? Is this the thanks you're giving them?



What thanks do you think is owed to you?

Un-****ing-believable.

I can’t understand the justification of inefficiency within the HSE by a plethora of posters.

Never has such poor performance been defended by so many

Surely the week long delay will cost lives?

Or is that ok because it’s Christmas?

Lundstram

Deleted User wrote: »

I honestly cannot believe some of the crap on this thread, but this has to be the lowest of the low.



Our medical workers have been working flat out for the last ten months and you're complaining that they're not working over Christmas? Is this the thanks you're giving them?



What thanks do you think is owed to you?

Un-****ing-believable.

Our hospitals have been the quietest over the last ten months since records began. Spare me the bleeding heart stories about the hero nurses and doctors.

A little competency and some urgency as a thanks would be nice. Thankfully Covid19 has gone on holidays too while 10,000 vaccines sit in a fridge in Dublin for 4 full days.

froog

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I can’t understand the justification of inefficiency within the HSE by a plethora of posters.

Never has such poor performance been defended by so many

Surely the week long delay will cost lives?

Or is that ok because it’s Christmas?

vaccinations start tuesday, didn't you read the news?

Lundstram

froog wrote: »

vaccinations start tuesday, didn't you read the news?

Here you are again with a nitpicking one-liner because someone made a mistake by one day.

Only because of the pressure. I've no doubt Varadkar, Martin et al told Reid to get a move on.

Still, 10,000 vaccines sitting in a fridge for 3 full days.

Clap Clap to our marvelous HSE.

FintanMcluskey

froog wrote: »

vaccinations start tuesday, didn't you read the news?

Is there a reason for the delay?

Surely the 2 boxes of vaccines were ordered a while ago?

Or did they turn up and take the HSE by surprise?

klose

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I can’t understand the justification of inefficiency within the HSE by a plethora of posters.

Never has such poor performance been defended by so many

Surely the week long delay will cost lives?

Or is that ok because it’s Christmas?

Don't think he's defending the HSE moreso saying the workers deserve their breaks/time off etc... Everyone has issues with the HSE but you don't pick those issues up with the nurses and doctors doing the rounds on the ward.

Lundstram

Lundstram wrote: »

Our hospitals have been the quietest over the last ten months since records began. Spare me the bleeding heart stories about the hero nurses and doctors.

A little competency and some urgency as a thanks would be nice. Thankfully Covid19 has gone on holidays too while 10,000 vaccines sit in a fridge in Dublin for 4 full days.

I'm not a health care professional or a HSE employee and my mother was one of those who died in a nursing home in April

I know the urgency of the vaccines.

But not even I would begrudge HCP's a few days of a break over Christmas.

You should be utterly ashamed of your comments.

Sofa King Great

It isn't the 3 day delay per se. The real issue is that it is indicative of how much of a **** show the wider roll out will be.

What happens when we get 40k/50k vaccines? Will that be delayed also? All of a sudden that delay builds up and the public are left with restrictions and a load of vaccines in fridges while the rest of the world moves on

Lundstram

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not a health care professional or a HSE employee and my mother was one of those who died in a nursing home in April

I know the urgency of the vaccines.

But not even I would begrudge HCP's a few days of a break over Christmas.

You should be utterly ashamed of your comments.

If HCPs expect guaranteed days off over Christmas, they're in the wrong job.

You're letting your emotions get in the way of reality. 3 days could be enough time to save someone else's mother or father.

Do HCPs in the UK, USA and many EU states not deserve time off over Xmas? They're vaccinating as we speak.

weldoninhio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm not a health care professional or a HSE employee and my mother was one of those who died in a nursing home in April

I know the urgency of the vaccines.

But not even I would begrudge HCP's a few days of a break over Christmas.

You should be utterly ashamed of your comments.

Fcuking hell. I pray we’re never involved in a war. You’ll have lunatics looking to recall soldiers for a break once they’ve reached the European Working Time Directive.

We’ve been told this is a once in a lifetime pandemic, but sure it’ll wait while drs and nurses who’ve have the quietest year since records began can have Christmas!! We are an absolute joke of a country, as I said in another thread we are very immature as a country.

And when vaccines are up and running, they’ll be 9-5, because Covid must only spread in office hours. Yet people will defend it. The same ones happy to stay under their bed and whinge about how deadly this bug is, when other, sociable, people want to get back to normal.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm not a health care professional or a HSE employee and my mother was one of those who died in a nursing home in April

I know the urgency of the vaccines.

But not even I would begrudge HCP's a few days of a break over Christmas.

You should be utterly ashamed of your comments.

No he shouldn’t.
Hospitals are quieter than ever.
They should be happy to have jobs while 20% of workforce are forced out of work.

Don't Chute!

froog wrote: »

vaccinations start tuesday, didn't you read the news?

Why didn’t they start the day they arrived? We are constantly being screamed at by people like you that this thing extremely deadly so, come on, why the delay? Is it actually not that serious after all?

AndrewJRenko

chicorytip wrote: »

No guidelines have been issued regarding outdoor exercise similar to those during the previous Level 5 period. Should we walk/jog or cycle no further than 5km from our own doorsteps?

I'm interested in the answer to this as well, if anyone knows?

My emotions are not clouding anything.

The fact that vaccinations have begun in other countries is not an excuse for your vile, insulting remarks against the people who are working here, and have been working on the front line for the last ten months.

I've nothing further to say to you.

CalamariFritti

Guys, I wouldn't get excited over whether vaccines are available from yesterday or Wednesday or whatever. Its only optics. A couple of days doesnt make a difference.

WhiteMemento9

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm interested in the answer to this as well, if anyone knows?

Could you just not use some common sense. Does everything need to spelled out and spoon fed?