Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

AndrewJRenko

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Maybe do some research on Tony. The man is very much against alcohol. He deemed an anti alcohol conference essential during a pandemic... so I’m sure he enjoys having pubs closed all year.

There are also other things he would like to make amends for, but there are other threads for that.

You know that his job is "public health"?

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You know that his job is "public health"?

A job he had failed pretty miserably at.

FintanMcluskey

GreeBo wrote: »

This thread has been an absolute goldmine of users to add to ignore, thanks to all of those who so readily identified themselves, your continued nonsense posting has not been in vain and I salute you.

These inane comments are usually left in here by posters with the debating skills of a turnip

FintanMcluskey

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You know that his job is "public health"?

No he is solely concerned with Covid at all costs.

How anyone can see otherwise is bizarre

Cancer screening was cancelled for months, everyone knows that, and I still see reason to argue with these comments

Boredom is a 1st world illness though, I’m lucky to suffer it

AndrewJRenko

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A job he had failed pretty miserably at.

On what criteria did he fail?

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/coronavirus-ireland-has-lowest-incidence-rate-in-eu-1045389.html

normanoffside

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

On what criteria did he fail?

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/coronavirus-ireland-has-lowest-incidence-rate-in-eu-1045389.html

He managed to get Ireland locked up tighter than any country in Europe and then boasts about lowest infection rates.
It’d be like the minister for transport banning cars and then claiming a victory as a result of the lowest road traffic accidents in Europe.

Claiming he ‘succeeded’ in cracking a few nuts taking a sledgehammer and wrecking all round himself is hardly a victory.

franciscanpunk

First time to post but read thread here a good bit.

I think when we have an easing of restrictions has actually got less to do with the HSE, the government or NPHET than people think. It will simply be related to what others in Europe do. If the vaccine(s) turns out to have minimal positive impact(which I doubt) and the rest of the EU decides we've done our best can't afford to lockdown anymore , will Ireland will be completely different? Of course not, our strategy is more conservative than most other countries but not miles apart, we'll eventually follow suit, somewhat reluctantly. On the other end of the spectrum, if the vaccine is highly successful after 6/7 months(hope rather than expectation) and the rest of the world decides back to normal saying thankfully this is over, Ireland wont decide lets stick with the level 3 restrictions for a while.(NPHET might try this a bit more than our peers but ultimately it won't work) we will copy the rest of the EU(with a slightly more conservative approach), its been the strategy so far and can't see us veering too far off.

I have not always agreed with the details of the restrictions but understand the need for them in general, we seem to like the nuclear option as a first approach and obv their have been contradictions in the guidelines but in general they were not enforced anyway on a individual level (they were for businesses) but most restrictions there was a genuine idea behind them, the government just got too involved at times and micro managed. The exception to this is the so called wet pubs, my instinct, and nothing more, is there is something going on here beyond the norm, whether it be someone in the HSE/Govt/NPHET must have had a strong desire to get one over on on the VFI/LVA/someone else in the industry as their treatment seems to go completely above and beyond the treatment of other sectors of the economy, it seems there was a disdain for this industry held by some decision makers and that COVID conveniently was used a stick to beat them with.

Windmill100000

GreeBo wrote: »

Don't be such an exaggerator, sure the UK is totally different to Ireland, they have a monarchy for Gods sake!
You might as well compare is to Italy or the US, some other examples of totally unrelatelable countries where it went badly wrong.

We'll never have ambulances of the sick piled up outside our hospitals dying... For one thing we don't have enough ambulances for that.

We dont have anywhere near the number of vulnerable people either

Hellrazer

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I didn't say "organise your surgery". I said "Do your surgery". Will you let the boards experts decide where to cut, and how long and how deep?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How about we manage your next surgery or serious illness by crowdsourcing 'expertise' from boards posters? Would you be up for that approach?

No you didn't say "do your surgery". You said "manage" your surgery. The discussion is about "managing" the roll out of the vaccine.

Once my daughter got through the "management" side of her surgery the actual surgeon was fantastic. It was the "management" with the red tape and constant cancellations that ended up wasting 2 years with the condition worsening and making a straight forward operation in a more serious one.

Boggles

Hellrazer wrote: »

No you didn't say "do your surgery". You said "manage" your surgery. The discussion is about "managing" the roll out of the vaccine.

Once my daughter got through the "management" side of her surgery the actual surgeon was fantastic. It was the "management" with the red tape and constant cancellations that ended up wasting 2 years with the condition worsening and making a straight forward operation in a more serious one.

How is she now?

Good I hope.

alentejo

I think we may need a small Level 5 lockdown - Close non essential retail for 2 weeks, then open it up again.

I do not think it is wise to close non essential retail for any longer as I suspect it is not the hot bed for new infections as it is made out to be.

In February, the government should consider cafes (no alcohol) should be allowed open during day time. Might allow for a phased reopening later on during the spring for other eateries and pubs.

I think blanket hard lock downs should be avoided at any costs where possible. Yes, the next 2 weeks are going to be dismal regarding numbers, however if we can get past mid to late January, we need to find a steady level of restrictions to which can get us thru to April.

I also think government should be advocating outdoor exercise much more. Being outdoors is good for you. There is more to life than covid!

Captain_Crash

How do I quote my own post from yesterday?? Cause I wasn’t wrong haha! It would be laughable if it wasn’t so predictable

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-government-may-impose-full-level-5-restrictions-due-to-concern-at-number-of-hospitalisations-1.4446673?mode=amp

I wish this government would stop flip flopping and commit to a policy once and for all! All this changing day to day is disastrous to a persons mindset

Don't Chute!

alentejo wrote: »

I think we may need a small Level 5 lockdown - Close non essential retail for 2 weeks, then open it up again.

I do not think it is wise to close non essential retail for any longer as I suspect it is not the hot bed for new infections as it is made out to be.

In February, the government should consider cafes (no alcohol) should be allowed open during day time. Might allow for a phased reopening later on during the spring for other eateries and pubs.

I think blanket hard lock downs should be avoided at any costs where possible. Yes, the next 2 weeks are going to be dismal regarding numbers, however if we can get past mid to late January, we need to find a steady level of restrictions to which can get us thru to April.

I also think government should be advocating outdoor exercise much more. Being outdoors is good for you. There is more to life than covid!

Your post suggests that this “government” is actively looking for different solutions to this thing, different ways of doing things. They aren’t. They have only one solution, lockdown everyone and everything and then blame us for it.

Here's an interesting take on the clinical trials from Pharma companies, it is straight from the IRISH horses mouth and she seems to have clout if you google her. The remaining DATA from the trials on these Covid Vaccines has yet to be submitted and even as people take them, the trials are and should be still on going, people forget this. I'd ask anyone with a passing interest in science and not journalist science, to listen to both speakers, who are highly qualified and well respected in their fields.

At worst the vaccines are unsafe (highly unlikely on a large scale) but they could more likely be ineffective in reducing spread and may only shave a day off, lest you get the virus and actually have symptoms, which is more often than not, the case. It would also be a huge swindle in terms of what we are paying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RXrGLolgEc&ab_channel=TEDxTalks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKmxL8VYy0M&ab_channel=TED

facehugger99

normanoffside wrote: »

He managed to get Ireland locked up tighter than any country in Europe and then boasts about lowest infection rates.
It’d be like the minister for transport banning cars and then claiming a victory as a result of the lowest road traffic accidents in Europe.

Exactly.

He's insulated and protected with his gravy-boat salary and pension and is happy to recommend pissing away tax-payers money like a drunken sailor whenever 'cases' get into 3 figures.

Our spineless politicians are the exact same.

They'll probably build a statue of St. Tony when this is all over but the man has been and will be the architect of so many needless deaths.

SusieBlue

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I'm sorry but that sounds awful. What is the reasoning behind having to get permission to play music at a low volume or no first dance? Do they think the married couple, who I'm sure already live together are worried about transmitting the dreaded virus to each other? Its like some new bizarre form of puritanism. Literally nothing fun is allowed. Surprised they weren't forced to eat their dinners in complete silence too.

I completely agree with you.
The low music is to stop guests speaking in raised voices to hear each other during dinner (thus potentially spreading the virus), no idea what the reasoning for the first dance was.
They ended up being allowed to have one in the end but had to wear masks. Which is absolutely ridiculous seeing as they live together anyway.
My mam sent me pics of the ceremony and the first dance and I have to say there was something very weird, unnatural and jarring about seeing a bride and groom in full wedding attire wearing masks. It just looked all kinds of wrong.
Mam was home and in bed for half past 10, said it was a very somber affair and nothing like a wedding she’d ever experienced in her life.
It’s mad to think that I was due to be a bridesmaid but ended up standing outside the church and didn’t go to the reception at all cause the numbers wouldn’t allow for it.

They just went ahead and got it over with cause they were previously booked in for mid January (their 5th date), but when MM announced that weddings would only allowed have 6 people in attendance from January 1st onwards with no end date in sight they decided to just get it done as soon as possible because the not knowing was causing huge amounts of stress.
The problem was that the hotel wouldn’t let them cancel indefinitely, they want them to commit to a new date each time one is cancelled. She would have been happy to cancel and revisit the planning in 2022, and pick a new date then, but they wouldn’t let her.
I think she regrets it now though cause she spent half the day yesterday crying. Just sad all round being honest.

AndrewJRenko

normanoffside wrote: »

He managed to get Ireland locked up tighter than any country in Europe and then boasts about lowest infection rates.
It’d be like the minister for transport banning cars and then claiming a victory as a result of the lowest road traffic accidents in Europe.

Claiming he ‘succeeded’ in cracking a few nuts taking a sledgehammer and wrecking all round himself is hardly a victory.

Would you prefer we go for the Southern California approach, where they have zero ICU beds available, or the UK approach where they are starting to run out of oxygen in hospitals?

Necro

Disgraceful by the hotel that they wouldn't let her cancel tbh, that's the kind of crap that makes these restrictions even tougher on some people.

Terrible that what is meant to be a celebration turns into something so monotonous and rigid

AndrewJRenko

rusty cole wrote: »

Here's an interesting take on the clinical trials from Pharma companies, it is straight from the IRISH horses mouth and she seems to have clout if you google her. The remaining DATA from the trials on these Covid Vaccines has yet to be submitted and even as people take them, the trials are and should be still on going, people forget this. I'd ask anyone with a passing interest in science and not journalist science, to listen to both speakers, who are highly qualified and well respected in their fields.

At worst the vaccines are unsafe (highly unlikely on a large scale) but they could more likely be ineffective in reducing spread and may only shave a day off, lest you get the virus and actually have symptoms, which is more often than not, the case. It would also be a huge swindle in terms of what we are paying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RXrGLolgEc&ab_channel=TEDxTalks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKmxL8VYy0M&ab_channel=TED

A four year old presentation that has nothing to do with Covid, just ICYMI.

normanoffside

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Would you prefer we go for the Southern California approach, where they have zero ICU beds available, or the UK approach where they are starting to run out of oxygen in hospitals?

Yeah of course I would prefer that :rolleyes:

That's the problem with this argument. You, like Tony and NPHET see it completely black and white, full lockdown or nothing.

May I remind you that during our last 6 week lockdown we had less than 3% of our beds with Covid patients in them (that was at peak). In the summer we had single digit cases per day, zero deaths for weeks and something like 6 people in hospital 'with covid' but that wasn't enough to let us have most of our normal freedoms. Tony's concern levels were still high and people weren't allowed to live in any way normally.


There's got to be a balance somewhere and it has long been weighted in favour of harsh restrictions for no apparent gain.

PTH2009

SusieBlue wrote: »

I completely agree with you.
The low music is to stop guests speaking in raised voices to hear each other during dinner (thus potentially spreading the virus), no idea what the reasoning for the first dance was.
They ended up being allowed to have one in the end but had to wear masks. Which is absolutely ridiculous seeing as they live together anyway.
My mam sent me pics of the ceremony and the first dance and I have to say there was something very weird, unnatural and jarring about seeing a bride and groom in full wedding attire wearing masks. It just looked all kinds of wrong.
Mam was home and in bed for half past 10, said it was a very somber affair and nothing like a wedding she’d ever experienced in her life.
It’s mad to think that I was due to be a bridesmaid but ended up standing outside the church and didn’t go to the reception at all cause the numbers wouldn’t allow for it.

They just went ahead and got it over with cause they were previously booked in for mid January (their 5th date), but when MM announced that weddings would only allowed have 6 people in attendance from January 1st onwards with no end date in sight they decided to just get it done as soon as possible because the not knowing was causing huge amounts of stress.
The problem was that the hotel wouldn’t let them cancel indefinitely, they want them to commit to a new date each time one is cancelled. She would have been happy to cancel and revisit the planning in 2022, and pick a new date then, but they wouldn’t let her.
I think she regrets it now though cause she spent half the day yesterday crying. Just sad all round being honest.

Out of interest how were the hotel enforcing it ?

Did they have security guards or was some bitch of a manger watching it all

Boggles

normanoffside wrote: »

In the summer we had single digit cases per day, zero deaths for weeks and something like 6 people in hospital 'with covid' but that wasn't enough to let us have most of our normal freedoms. Tony's concern levels were still high and people weren't allowed to live in any way normally.

Ahhh, which were?

normanoffside

Boggles wrote: »

Ahhh, which were?

Ah you know, stuff we normally do over the summer.
Go to concerts, GAA matches, let our kids play team sports, go on foreign holidays- you know that kind of stuff.

Rrrrrr2

Boggles wrote: »

Ahhh, which were?

Is this an actual question? Do you sit at home 24:7 on the internet or something and don’t see or care how normal life has been ravished by Covid hysteria? Jesus

Boggles

normanoffside wrote: »

Ah you know, stuff we normally do over the summer.
Go to concerts, GAA matches, let our kids play team sports, go on foreign holidays- you know that kind of stuff.

Why couldn't your kids play team sports or why couldn't you go on foreign holidays?

Also even the most delusional anti restriction nut couldn't think concerts would be a good idea, or would they?

Boggles

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Is this an actual question?

Yes, when someone is claiming the majority of "our" fraydumbs were taken away from us during the summer, I think that warrants an explanation.

Don't you?

Boggles

The UK has recorded 53,135 new daily infections, health data showed on Tuesday, as well as 414 deaths.

The daily increase in infections is a new record, and significantly higher than Monday’s 41,385 new new lab-confirmed cases, the previous record since the start of the pandemic and the first day new daily cases rose above 40,000.

The UK absolutely smashing records Christmas week.

They got badly badly wrong with the timing of their restrictions.

normanoffside

Boggles wrote: »

Why couldn't your kids play team sports or why couldn't you go on foreign holidays?

Also even the most delusional anti restriction nut couldn't think concerts would be a good idea, or would they?

Because team sports were banned for all but 'elite' did you not notice?
Kids haven't played any team sports since March in case you didn't know.

And we were told not to go on foreign Holidays*, do you not remember?
We were even told not to go to Green list countries (which were very few and far between) unless for essential purposes.



*I am sure you are going to say we could have went abroad anyway but I am also certain you were yourself telling people not to travel (and chastising those that did).

Dr. Bre

Surviving isn’t living

Boggles

normanoffside wrote: »

Because team sports were banned for all but 'elite' did you not notice?
Kids haven't played any team sports since March in case you didn't know.

They most certainly have.

normanoffside wrote: »

And we were told not to go on foreign Holidays*, do you not remember?
We were even told not to go to Green list countries (which were very few and far between) unless for essential purposes.

*I am sure you are going to say we could have went abroad anyway but I am also certain you were yourself telling people not to travel (and chastising those that did).

So the majority of our freedoms you speak of that were taking away didn't actually exist, except for in your head?