Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Kunta Kinte

Captain_Crash wrote: »

That’s because you have to accept the fixed charge notice by paying. A person is within their rights to not pay and have the case heard in court instead, a de facto appeal so to speak. The amount could be higher in court, but equally the case could also be thrown out.

Could be, maybe yada yada.. Do you really think most offenders will take their chances in court of their case being thrown out?

growleaves

Rodin wrote: »

It's great to see rules being enforced.
Far too much non-enforcement in the country of many laws/rules.

People do what you let them away with.
These people fined clearly had no fear of being caught/repurcussions.

One of the fines was for a woman walking along a beach alone by herself.

Who was she going to infect in the sea air with no one around assuming she was even sick?

It is often easier to evoke phantoms than to banish them. This micro-policing may be with us for some time.

Kunta Kinte

Deleted User wrote: »

Sweden, Norway, Finland, Switzerland, parts of Spain, Portugal, Italy.
And that’s just for now.

I can assure you that they’ll all be open before Ireland opens pubs.

Just like last year.

Ah so your anti restrictions comments are actually more related to pubs not reopening any time soon than anything else? The penny has dropped.

Captain_Crash

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

For example? And yeah that is a real question. Also I`m not interested in what may or may not have happened between last May and October. Totally different sItiuation throughout Europe and much of the rest of the world now. But then you know that.

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

Ah so your anti restrictions comments are actually more related to pubs not reopening any time soon than anything else? The penny has dropped.

One of the countries that is at the top of the premier league table that MM was quick to blab on about when our numbers looked good in Nov is Finland.

Whats closed?? almost nothing. They have based their approach on encouraging hygiene, social distancing and general public awareness. Unlike here, they have not removed the fabric of general social society and deamonised people living a life for nearly a year.

This means they are less likely to go nuts because shopping, restaurants, cinemas etc have always been open, and there is no threat of them being closed. The restrictions on businesses are on capacity not industry (lets not be pedantic, there are some exceptions of course). For want of a better word, the approach there has worked because it has been consistent, they took an approach, trusted it and stuck to it.

Rodin

growleaves wrote: »

One of the fines was for a woman walking along a beach alone by herself.

Who was she going to infect in the sea air with no one around assuming she was even sick?

It is often easier to evoke phantoms than to banish them. This micro-policing may be with us for some time.

I hadn't realised the 5km distance had caveats.
Are you really arguing that we should allow people to exercise their judgement? We see now what a mess that has landed us in.
Micro-policing? Just policing to me. We need much more of it. Much more enforcement of rules.

JMNolan

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

Ah so your anti restrictions comments are actually more related to pubs not reopening any time soon than anything else? The penny has dropped.

Hate to see people personalize the issue when they can't make any counterpoint, poor way of debating issues.

growleaves

Rodin wrote: »

I hadn't realised the 5km distance had caveats.
Are you really arguing that we should allow people to exercise their judgement? We see now what a mess that has landed us in.
Micro-policing? Just policing to me. We need much more of it. Much more enforcement of rules.

Yes. We need to make the restrictions voluntary.

We need less rules (the multiplication of rules leads to incoherence and confuses people, especially with the constant changing of the rules) and less enforcement.

walus

Just wondering if we are going to get same level of transparency as they enjoy in Norway:

"NORWAY’S HEALTH REGULATOR has said that common side effects may have contributed to the deaths of 23 elderly people who are frail after they received the Covid-19 vaccine."

https://www.thejournal.ie/norway-vaccine-elderly-patients-5326967-Jan2021/

Rodin

growleaves wrote: »

Yes. We need to make the restrictions voluntary.

We need less rules (the multiplication of rules leads to incoherence and confuses people, especially with the constant changing of the rules) and less enforcement.

What part of "don't go further than 5km for exercise" is confusing?
If that confuses people then I contend they really can't be trusted to make good judgements.

growleaves

Rodin wrote: »

What part of "don't go further than 5km for exercise" is confusing?
If that confuses people then I contend they really can't be trusted to make good judgements.

The part where you go further than 5km.

What's confusing is that there are so many rules, they contradict each other and don't cohere, and they keep changing.

Kunta Kinte

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

Ah so your anti restrictions comments are actually more related to pubs not reopening any time soon than anything else? The penny has dropped.

YOU literally asked me where hospitality is still open...

paw patrol

walus wrote: »

Just wondering if we are going to get same level of transparency as they enjoy in Norway:

"NORWAY’S HEALTH REGULATOR has said that common side effects may have contributed to the deaths of 23 elderly people who are frail after they received the Covid-19 vaccine."

https://www.thejournal.ie/norway-vaccine-elderly-patients-5326967-Jan2021/

we won't - we have no transparency nor journalism here only political arseholes and their sycophants'

but nonetheless the argument is that these deaths are from old and frail people so it's not a true representation of the vaccine....but oddly the same median age 83 people we were lectured into destroying our society to protect.

one standard for you, a different one for them

copeyhagen

Rodin wrote: »

What part of "don't go further than 5km for exercise" is confusing?
If that confuses people then I contend they really can't be trusted to make good judgements.

but getting a take away more than 5kms is fine, exercise isnt....

banana republic

Boggles

growleaves wrote: »

One of the fines was for a woman walking along a beach alone by herself.

Was this that woman?

Among one of the incidents noted was one that occurred at a checkpoint in Middleton, where a female driver was requested to return home.

"Subsequently the driver was observed at a beach amenity outside the 5km limit," a garda spokesperson stated.

Driver acknowledged she was breaching Covid regulations and offered no further reasonable excuse."

So she was caught, told go back, she pulled a fast one and got a fine.

Perfectly reasonable by the Guards.

To suggest the lady was just confused is quite funny.

Rodin

growleaves wrote: »

The part where you go further than 5km.

What's confusing is that there are so many rules, they contradict each other and don't cohere, and they keep changing.

Over 5km is breaching the rules.
That really is very simple. All those fines were handed out for that.
If that really does confuse people Id also charge them for being incompetent in charge of a motor vehicle.

Rodin

Boggles wrote: »

Was this that woman?



So she was caught, told go back, she pulled a fast one and got a fine.

Perfectly reasonable by the Guards.

To suggest the lady was just confused is quite funny.

Perfectly.

walus

paw patrol wrote: »

we won't - we have no transparency nor journalism here only political arseholes and their sycophants'

but nonetheless the argument is that these deaths are from old and frail people so it's not a true representation of the vaccine....but oddly the same median age 83 people we were lectured into destroying our society to protect.

one standard for you, a different one for them

I just read somewhere that some countries will not vaccinate those people for whom the live expectancy is too short. Not sure what the algorithm is but I can understand the principle behind it.

Nevertheless, with every passing month the world is becoming more and more bizarre place.

growleaves

Boggles wrote: »

Was this that woman?



So she was caught, told go back, she pulled a fast one and got a fine.

Perfectly reasonable by the Guards.

To suggest the lady was just confused is quite funny.

I didn't say she was confused. I said she was walking alone along the beach by herself (which is true).

I also said that the rules in general are confusing (in my opinion).

That's two separate points.

Rodin

copeyhagen wrote: »

but getting a take away more than 5kms is fine, exercise isnt....

banana republic

I wouldn't allow travelling 5km for a takeaway. In fact I'd have them closed. Having them open encourages travel.

Boggles

growleaves wrote: »

I said she was walking alone along the beach by herself (which is true).

You left out the part where she had all ready been asked to return home, she acted the bollíx, avoided the check point and was caught.

Bad faith posting there lad.

Kunta Kinte

Deleted User wrote: »

YOU literally asked me where hospitality is still open...

The hospitality sector is about more than just pubs. It covers hotels, B&Bs, restaurants, cafes etc etc.. YOU specifically singled out pubs in your reply. Curious that you did so.

Rodin

growleaves wrote: »

I didn't say she was confused. I said she was walking alone along the beach by herself (which is true).

I also said that the rules in general are confusing (in my opinion).

That's two separate points.

She didn't follow the reasonable directions of a member of an Garda Siochána and got caught for it.
If you're going to tell a story then tell the whole story.

paw patrol

Rodin wrote: »

Over 5km is breaching the rules.
That really is very simple. All those fines were handed out for that.
If that really does confuse people Id also charge them for being incompetent in charge of a motor vehicle.

aren't you a wonderful citizen not only lecturing us all but handing out made up punishments for those that don't keep to your standard.
Sure why not hang them while you're at it or if that's too far maybe few months in the gulag?

Edit.

Rodin wrote: »

I wouldn't allow travelling 5km for a takeaway. In fact I'd have them closed. Having them open encourages travel.

and there you are...not disappointing at all :rolleyes:

Rodin

Rodin wrote: »

I wouldn't allow travelling 5km for a takeaway. In fact I'd have them closed. Having them open encourages travel.

Essential workers who have every reason to be out and about need access to food.

If only essential workers getting lunch were allowed use them it would not be economical to open.

Kunta Kinte

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

The hospitality sector is about more than just pubs. It covers hotels, B&Bs, restaurants, cafes etc etc.. YOU specifically singled out pubs in your reply. Curious that you did so.

Hahaha!!! I have no argument left so... pubs.

Well done you.

Rodin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Essential workers who have every reason to be out and about need access to food.

If only essential workers getting lunch were allowed use them it would not be economical to open.

I'm an essential worker.
I bring food to work.
Next...

growleaves

Boggles wrote: »

You left out the part where she had all ready been asked to return home, she acted the bollíx, avoided the check point and was caught.

Bad faith posting there lad.

I don't think she should have been asked to return home.

The guards did their duty I'm not faulting them, I'm saying scrap these stupid laws.

Rodin

Rodin wrote: »

I'm an essential worker.
I bring food to work.
Next...

Good for you. Now, what about someone who is off a 12 hour shift or is working unplanned overtime?

copeyhagen

Rodin wrote: »

I wouldn't allow travelling 5km for a takeaway. In fact I'd have them closed. Having them open encourages travel.

well thats the reality, our govt have said i can travel more than 5km to pick up junk food, but i cant drive more than 5km to go to my fav beach to exercise.

smh

Rodin

Rodin wrote: »

Over 5km is breaching the rules.
That really is very simple. All those fines were handed out for that.
If that really does confuse people Id also charge them for being incompetent in charge of a motor vehicle.

Depends on the circumstances.
Lots of reasons were you are allowed outside 5KM.

Kunta Kinte

growleaves wrote: »

I didn't say she was confused. I said she was walking alone along the beach by herself (which is true).

I also said that the rules in general are confusing (in my opinion).

That's two separate points.

How are they confusing in your opinion? Examples please.

Rodin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Good for you. Now, what about someone who is off a 12 hour shift or is working unplanned overtime?

When Im in work for 24 hours I bring multiple meals.
Next...

paw patrol

Rodin wrote: »

I'm an essential worker.
I bring food to work.
Next...

as per your previous posts.
Have you not realised yet what a perfect specimen of righteous you are?
us mortals can only hope to be somewhat as good as you

like my poor mate 12 hours in an ambulance and an extra 90mins or so cleaning the thing after her shift on Sunday night

god forbid she treated herself to the discounted Thai (discount offered to ambulance) . I must tell her she is inferior to Rodin "the essential" of Boards and make do with a hang sambo

Rodin wrote: »

When Im in work for 24 hours I bring multiple meals.
Next...

don't stop....please continue telling everybody how great you are and why we should all be like you

Rodin

Rodin wrote: »

When Im in work for 24 hours I bring multiple meals.
Next...

Great that you have your life so perfectly organised. In the real word everyone is not, and cannot be so well prepared, for a myriad of reasons. Access to takeaway food is an essential service.

Rodin

paw patrol wrote: »

as per your previous posts.
Have you not realised yet what a perfect specimen of righteous you are?
us mortals can only hope for it to be somewhat as good as you

like my poor mate 12 hours in an ambulance and an extra 90mins oe so cleaning the thing after her shift on Sunday night

god forbid she treated herself to the discounted Thai (discount offered to ambulance) . I must tell her she is inferior to Rodin "the essential" of Boards and make do with a hang sambo

One.. your mate didn't spend 12 hours in an ambulance.
Everytime a patient gets dropped off they MUST wait to hand over safely. So plenty of time out of the ambulance.
Probably also needed to refuel. Grab something then.
Or... bring food to work.

Are you telling me if the takeaways closed they'd starve?

I don't care if you disagree with me but it's pointless making points that are refuted with less difficulty than the swatting of a fly.

Boggles

growleaves wrote: »

I don't think she should have been asked to return home.

The guards did their duty I'm not faulting them, I'm saying scrap these stupid laws.

Your own example highlighted why voluntary restrictions won't work.

Fair play to you.

Rodin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Great that you have your life so perfectly organised. In the real word everyone is not, and cannot be so well prepared, for a myriad of reasons. Access to takeaway food is an essential service.

It really isn't. In any way.
We'll agree to disagree.

growleaves

Boggles wrote: »

Your own example highlighted why voluntary restrictions won't work.

Fair play to you.

No because the restrictions are not an end in themselves.

A woman alone in the sea air is not going to infect anyone even if she was sick.

Without the restrictions she would have continued her walk and then gone home.

Kunta Kinte

Deleted User wrote: »

Hahaha!!! I have no argument left so... pubs.

Well done you.

You were the one who singled out pubs in your comments not me. Anyway the main point is that you and others here seem to be constantly engaged in knocking the government , NPHET etc etc for all of their actions while also falsely downplaying the seriousness of the Covid situation. Do you deny that? I wonder what your real agenda is.

Boggles

growleaves wrote: »

No because the restrictions are not an end in themselves.

A woman alone in the sea air is not going to infect anyone even if she was sick.

Without the restrictions she would have continued her walk and then gone home.

How do you know, do you know her?

What we do know about her is she has little regard for public health restrictions, therefore she is €100 less off.

Yellow card for stupidity.

Kunta Kinte

Boggles wrote: »

How do you know, do you know her?

What we do know about her is she has little regard for public health restrictions, therefore she is €100 less off.

Yellow card for stupidity.

Exactly. Hopefully if enough fines are issued the message will eventually get through to even the slow learners.

Rodin

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

Exactly. Hopefully if enough fines are issued the message will eventually get through to even the slow learners.

Could always stick an extra zero on the end too.

Nobody deliberately drives fast past a speed camera because of repercussions.

FintanMcluskey

We have came so far as a nation when compared to 12 months ago.

Well done guy’s

How anyone can justify handing out fines to families exercising outdoor is absolutely baffling.

In fact some of ye are calling to increase the fines

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

How anyone can justify handing out fines to families exercising outdoor is absolutely baffling.

It's quite simple, they want people to stay within their locality and restrict the mass movement of people to those who are deemed essential.

It's not very hard understand, particularly at this stage.

FintanMcluskey

Boggles wrote: »

It's quite simple, they want people to stay within their locality and restrict the mass movement of people to those who are deemed essential.

It's not very hard understand, particularly at this stage.

Why is NPHET not following their own advice so?

Surely a group zoom broadcast is just as effective?

Captain_Crash

Rodin wrote: »

Could always stick an extra zero on the end too.

Nobody deliberately drives fast past a speed camera because of repercussions.

Fixed penalties were introduced to take pressure off the courts and are structured in a way where most people will pay them. Hence the amounts are deliberately low.

If they “stuck an extra 0” on the end, then the majority of people instead of just paying will opt to have their day in court, thus voiding the whole point on a fixed penalty notice in the first place. Hospitals are overwhelmed, last thing we need is the courts overwhelmed too eh?? that will only result in mass dismissals and fines being thrown out #staysafe #stayathome #nexttwoweeksarecrucial

Kunta Kinte

Boggles wrote: »

It's quite simple, they want people to stay within their locality and restrict the mass movement of people to those who are deemed essential.

It's not very hard understand, particularly at this stage.

It seems that it is hard to understand for some. Or, as is more likely, they pretend not to understand it as it doesn`t suit them to do so.

Silentcorner

Boggles wrote: »

It's quite simple, they want people to stay within their locality and restrict the mass movement of people to those who are deemed essential.

It's not very hard understand, particularly at this stage.

That is the problem, what is the point.

Is it not enough that every other social outlet for young and old are outlawed a completely harmless walk on the beach is too much risk?

There isn't a morsel of data to suggest it is risky.

It's not like people are gathering in masses, like a football match or a concert....they are walking in the fresh air a much needed endeavor for the vast majority of humans.

You are not suggesting the virus transmits in traffic now are you? so there is no logical reason to be this strict....and you wonder why people are questioning what is clearly government over reach...even by Irish standards!!!

Whatsisname

Should have just done the North Korea approach and shot anyone who tested positive.

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Why is NPHET not following their own advice so?

Surely a group zoom broadcast is just as effective?

They have other jobs besides NPHET and they are essential workers.

Again this has been pointed out several times.

But around and around we go.