Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

darconio

Boggles wrote: »

Yes, you have to test to see who is positive.

TBF this isn't hard, what exactly is confusing you?

Or is because BS was called on your daft "idea" and you will just continue being contrary?

Let's skip all that shall we?

Ah I was missing your "what is confusing you" LOL
Daft idea? what's so daft about testing somebody negative and administering the jab in the same place? to be honest, what is confusing YOU! In the meantime can you answer any of these question, you seem to know what's the best course of action:

How many doses were administered yesterday?
what criteria was used to chose the 3-4 patients that were blinded by the flash of the photographers and they made the headlines?
Were they tested previously?
if yes how long did it take between the swab, the test result and the vaccination?
could the same timeline not be applied to the average vulnerable that tested negative yesterday?

AndrewJRenko

GiftofGab wrote: »

If they pursue a full scale lockdown again people will start to lose respect for authority then more and more laws will be broken. Too many strict rules. We did our part with our first lockdown.

Try negotiating with the virus and see how you get on.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

I really don’t think that perhaps you and other pro lockdowners really realise how desperate some people’s situations really are.

20% unemployment. Probably more after today.

350 a week is the Max payment. Not a lot when you are trying to pay rent/mortgage or feed children. And of course those people will have to prioritise their own needs first.

Covid is a first world problem. A bunch of people panicking about a mild illness that mainly seems to finish off people close to death in nursing homes.

There is no such thing as a "pro lockdowner", that is a figment of your imagination, which is pretty vivid TBF.

Nuance would not be a friend of yours it would seem, but ignoring the pandemic will lead to worse economic, social conditions and a massive increase in covid and non covid mortality.

Constantly dribbling out "open up" will not change that reality.

Boggles

darconio wrote: »

Ah I was missing your "what is confusing you" LOL
Daft idea? what's so daft about testing somebody negative and administering the jab in the same place? to be honest, what is confusing YOU! In the meantime can you answer any of these question, you seem to know what's the best course of action:

How many doses were administered yesterday?
what criteria was used to chose the 3-4 patients that were blinded by the flash of the photographers and they made the headlines?
Were they tested previously?
if yes how long did it take between the swab, the test result and the vaccination?
could the same timeline not be applied to the average vulnerable that tested negative yesterday?

So you opted for the predictable contrary option.

Fair enough, as you were.

_Kaiser_

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Try negotiating with the virus and see how you get on.

Odds are that, like the majority of the population, he'll be fine!

What I genuinely can't understand is the determined efforts of some here to continue to play down that bit of reality. In March we feared 80,000 dead and mass fallout of infections either way. Neither of those two things have come to pass and it has very little (as we've seen in the Autumn/winter months) to do with lockdowns and restrictions.

This is a VERY GOOD THING. I honestly can't understand why some refuse to recognise that.

Boggles

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

A better barometer of ACTUAL cases is those admitted to hospital and ICU with serious symptoms.

Yeah, Belgium tried that approach, didn't work out too well.

Around and around we go.

GiftofGab

Looking at the statistics I see that 0.04% of the Irish population have died from this virus. Now what % of those deaths were under the age of 75? And of all the deaths under 75 , what % had no underlying health conditions?? I think you'd find that number extremely low. It's honestly no worth ruining the economy, running legitimate businesses into the ground and destroying people's lives for.

darconio

Boggles wrote: »

So you opted for the predictable contrary option.

Fair enough, as you were.

Clap clap clap :pac:

oldtimeyfella

GiftofGab wrote: »

Looking at the statistics I see that 0.04% of the Irish population have died from this virus. Now what % of those deaths were under the age of 75? And of all the deaths under 75 , what % had no underlying health conditions?? I think you'd find that number extremely low. It's honestly no worth ruining the economy, people's lives and careers for.

Translation: "I don't care about the elderly or unwell. Let me buy things!"

mandrake04

Deleted User wrote: »

I really don’t think that perhaps you and other pro lockdowners really realise how desperate some people’s situations really are.

20% unemployment. Probably more after today.

350 a week is the Max payment. Not a lot when you are trying to pay rent/mortgage or feed children. And of course those people will have to prioritise their own needs first.

Covid is a first world problem. A bunch of people panicking about a mild illness that mainly seems to finish off people close to death in nursing homes.

I'm definitely not in favor of lockdowns and definitely against closing of businesses but I really don't see where the pro-lockdown people are?.... who really wants to be lockdown and everything closed?

Yes its first world problem but you are either part of the solution or part of the problem, there's simply no in-between!! This is where you are confused.

Unfortunately you are not in charge the government is in charge and whether you like it or not you are going have to accept that and be a good boy and do as you are told.

GazzaL

GiftofGab wrote: »

Looking at the statistics I see that 0.04% of the Irish population have died from this virus. Now what % of those deaths were under the age of 75? And of all the deaths under 75 , what % had no underlying health conditions?? I think you'd find that number extremely low. It's honestly no worth ruining the economy, people's lives and careers for.

Yeah, but then the HSE/NPHET would have to implement a proper testing and contact tracing system, and stringently manage hospital and healthcare facilities to prevent the spread in those settings.

You couldn't really expect the HSE/NPHET to do that. That's too pragmatic and too much like work. It's far easier to torpedo the whole country instead.

Don't worry, we're only the second slowest country in Europe for the vaccine roll out. The HSE/NPHET will have the vaccine rolled out by 2030.

GiftofGab

oldtimeyfella wrote: »

Translation: "I don't care about the elderly or unwell. Let me buy things!"

There's other ways to protect the elderly and unwell than imposing a full society lockdown. I do care about the future of this country and people's mental health thou.

nino1

I am a healthcare worker and i don't disagree with restrictions but i think the level of restrictions need to be reduced to get the economy up and going again.

Closing down non-essential business is too far in my opinion now that a vaccine is here.

One thing that needs to be discussed is the difference between the death count of people who die WITH covid and those that die AS A RESULT OF covid.
If you look at the total deaths in Ireland over the last 20 years in 13 of those years there has a higher total death rate than 2020.
There were only 17 deaths from 44 years and younger from COVID.

Now that we have a vaccine to protect our most vulnerable groups i think that its time to create the level of restrictions in line with this new tool in the fight against covid and make any restrictions proportionate.

Shutting down the economy, banning non-essential business and restricting peoples movements is a huge deal and shouldn't be applied as vigorously now as when we had to other means of protecting our most vulnerable.

FintanMcluskey

nino1 wrote: »

Shutting down the economy, banning non-essential business and restricting peoples movements is a huge deal and shouldn't be applied as vigorously now as when we had to other means of protecting our most vulnerable.

Restriction of people’s movement is indeed a huge deal.

It’s essentially been 9 months house arrest for a crime that was never committed.

Work sleep repeat.

My fear is the during Winter 2021 the restrictions will continue and be justified using the very same metrics that’s justifying the current restrictions.

Red Alert

Restrictions were temporarily lifted and as of tomorrow would be back in force anyway. Therefore they should be let run their course and do their job. We don't need another gratuitous shutting of businesses that are not themselves high risk.

GazzaL

Red Alert wrote: »

Restrictions were temporarily lifted and as of tomorrow would be back in force anyway. Therefore they should be let run their course and do their job. We don't need another gratuitous shutting of businesses that are not themselves high risk.

I'll go out of my way to support businesses that choose to stay open despite the new restrictions.

GazzaL

Niall Boylan hits the nail on the head

https://twitter.com/Niall_Boylan/status/1341445742129459200

WhiteMemento9

GazzaL wrote: »

Niall Boylan hits the nail on the head

https://twitter.com/Niall_Boylan/status/1341445742129459200

That tweet was made over a week ago. The nail has moved quite a bit since then.

SusieBlue

oldtimeyfella wrote: »

Translation: "I don't care about the elderly or unwell. Let me buy things!"

Absolutely pathetic. The vast majority and their futures are being sacrificed for the few here.
It has little to do with wanting to buy things (or go to the pub etc etc) and more to do with genuine concern and fear for the future of our country if we continue on this suicide mission.
Telling people to suck it up and get over it was acceptable back in March when people were moaning about having to do a 3 week lockdown (remember that?), but almost a year later, their concerns are pertinent and valid and you should have more consideration rather than to repeatedly belittle and sneer at them.

No person is more important than the next.
The economy and the well-being of society as a whole needs to be balanced with our response to managing the virus.
As of March 2020 that hasn’t been the case and doesn’t seem to be the case going forward either.

People are right to be pissed off, we had 9 weeks of restrictions from early October to 'save Christmas', and as a reward, we have 3.5 more months of lockdown to look forward to.
Hundreds of thousands of people out of work again, ironically the very people who missed out on having a ‘meaningful Christmas’ with their own loved ones in order to serve us in restaurants and shops, cut our hair, and drive us home at the end of the night.
All this even though we have a vaccine. It just isn’t a proportionate response and that’s why people are beyond frustrated and angry at this point.

average_runner

SusieBlue wrote: »

Absolutely pathetic. The vast majority and their futures are being sacrificed for the few here.
It has little to do with wanting to buy things (or go to the pub etc etc) and more to do with genuine concern and fear for the future of our country if we continue on this suicide mission.
Telling people to suck it up and get over it was acceptable back in March when people were moaning about having to do a 3 week lockdown (remember that?), but almost a year later, their concerns are pertinent and valid and you should have more consideration rather than to repeatedly belittle and sneer at them.

No person is more important than the next.
The economy and the well-being of society as a whole needs to be balanced with our response to managing the virus.
As of March 2020 that hasn’t been the case and doesn’t seem to be the case going forward either.

People are right to be pissed off, we had 9 weeks of restrictions from early October to 'save Christmas', and as a reward, we have 3.5 more months of lockdown to look forward to.
Hundreds of thousands of people out of work again, ironically the very people who missed out on having a ‘meaningful Christmas’ with their own loved ones in order to serve us in restaurants and shops, cut our hair, and drive us home at the end of the night.
All this even though we have a vaccine. It just isn’t a proportionate response and that’s why people are beyond frustrated and angry at this point.

We don't have a vaccine yet. There is one in motion and hopefully the elderly will have it before end of March.

WhiteMemento9

SusieBlue wrote: »

All this even though we have a vaccine. It just isn’t a proportionate response and that’s why people are beyond frustrated and angry at this point.

You keep repeating this but never with any solutions and when anyone asks what is the alternative you and others disappear. So do we remain open and allow capacity in hospitals to overflow until we are no longer able to cope? Do you currently see what is happening in London. I am completely exacerbated at this point of wondering where you all think the government is hiding the magic beans to this problem.

SusieBlue

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

You keep repeating this but never with any solutions and when anyone asks what is the alternative you and others disappear. So do we remain open and allow capacity in hospitals to overflow until we are no longer able to cope? Do you currently see what is happening in London. I am completely exacerbated at this point of wondering where you all think the government is hiding the magic beans to this problem.

Look at the data. Very few cases are coming from hospitality, fewer still from hairdressers, retail and hotels. I haven’t heard of any cases coming out of gyms.
There is absolutely no need to put these people out of work again.

The vast, vast majority of cases and clusters (aside from hospitals and nursing homes which continue to be mismanaged but nobody wants to talk about that) are coming from private homes and households mixing.
No amount of shutting down the economy is going to change that.
The public buy in has been lost and continues to go decrease with every random rule change and nuclear reaction to the cases going up.

Look at the first lockdown compared to the last one, and the difference in attitudes.
People were afraid for the lives first time around, most wouldn’t even say hello to their elderly parents with a window between them. Compliance was near 100%. Then look at the last one.
The cases didn’t even go down a huge amount. And that’s because people were still mixing privately behind closed doors. Closing down all industries didn’t have anywhere near the impact as first time round.

Rightly or wrongly, closing down everything again is going to make little to no difference cause those same people aren’t going to suddenly decide to start complying.
But the government have to be seen to be doing something so they are now throwing everything but the kitchen sink at level 5, which didn’t work last time and won’t work this time either.

The spreadsheet Fergal Bowers shared on Twitter last week said it all. Since August there have been 43 cases from restaurants, 26 from shops, and 6 from personal grooming services.
There have been over 6k cases from private homes mixing.

My suggestion? Direct all resources at the areas that are actually contributing to cases going up and spreading.
So direct provision centres, hospitals, and nursing homes for a start. Keep all industries open, possibly with even more reduced hours/numbers etc.
Allow people to meet in controlled sanitised environments to discourage them from mixing in private homes. Stop going nuclear every time the cases go up.
Increase measures as necessary if and when the health service starts to struggle to cope.
I believe as of yet we haven’t come near that point since March.

But mass closure of society should not be the go-to solution every time Tony becomes concerned and the government panics almost a year into this thing.

nino1

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

You keep repeating this but never with any solutions and when anyone asks what is the alternative you and others disappear. So do we remain open and allow capacity in hospitals to overflow until we are no longer able to cope? Do you currently see what is happening in London. I am completely exacerbated at this point of wondering where you all think the government is hiding the magic beans to this problem.

Its not about doing nothing, its about having a proportionate response.
It's easy to say shut down businesses when its not your business being closed down or when you can work from home and not lose your job or take a big pay cut.
In my opinion restrictions should be brought in up to the level that prevents the hospitals being overrun. That doesn't mean doing nothing but relax the restrictions as much as possible until it gets close to this becoming an issue and ramp it up again if necessary.

you have to be able to draw the line somewhere when it comes to taking such an enormous step of completely shutting down an entire economy.
What if the flu mutated to a level where twice the amount of people were dying from it, it would still be a relatively low number but would that warrant shutting down the economy completely?

normanoffside

They need to seriously look at Hospital and nursing home outbreaks

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1344287670629969920

Zebra3

nino1 wrote: »

It's easy to say shut down businesses when its not your business being closed down or when you can work from home and not lose your job or take a big pay cut.

That's it in a nutshell.

The government could've shown leadership by showing solidarity with all those financially suffering, but they didn't.

Instead you get to read about politicians pocketing mileage expenses for Zoom meetings.

And with that you get idiots on here telling people to do as they're told and be a "good little boy".

:rolleyes:

oldtimeyfella

Zebra3 wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell.

The government could've shown leadership by showing solidarity with all those financially suffering, but they didn't.

Instead you get to read about politicians pocketing mileage expenses for Zoom meetings.

And with that you get idiots on here telling people to do as they're told and be a "good little boy".

:rolleyes:

They've given people an enhanced unemployment payment with very few questions asked.



What more do you expect? Open up certain sectors just to be nice to people and let them earn a few quid?

GazzaL

normanoffside wrote: »

They need to seriously look at Hospital and nursing home outbreaks

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1344287670629969920

0 outbreaks in non-essential retail. Why are we even discussing closing non-essential retail?

0 outbreaks in gyms too.

normanoffside

normanoffside wrote: »

They need to seriously look at Hospital and nursing home outbreaks

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1344287670629969920

Correct, although NPHET and RTÉ will do everything to downplay it. Interesting to note there was one outbreak in a pub versus four in restaurants. So much for food nullifying the Covid threat. And then a mere 21 outbreaks in schools, which supposedly were immune from Covid. Yet these will reopen months before the hospitality sector. Tony Holohan's prejudice wreaking havoc on the economy.

opinionated3

oldtimeyfella wrote: »

They've given people an enhanced unemployment payment with very few questions asked.



What more do you expect? Open up certain sectors just to be nice to people and let them earn a few quid?

Stick them all on PUP, including Mr holohan. Show a bit of solidarity seeing as they keep telling us "we're all in this together". ( What utter BS that catchphrase was btw...... The rich stroll on unaffected while the ordinary working man/woman has to suffer the consequences of their decisions).

oldtimeyfella

opinionated3 wrote: »

Stick them all on PUP, including Mr holohan. Show a bit of solidarity seeing as they keep telling us "we're all in this together". ( What utter BS that catchphrase was btw...... The rich stroll on unaffected while the ordinary working man/woman has to suffer the consequences of their decisions).

Utter nonsense. They are still working so why would we put them on an unemployment payment? Should we do it for everyone in the country that is still working?


Most of the economy is still up and running in some form.