Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

average_runner

the kelt wrote: »

But having lockdowns and expecting 100% to the letter obedience isn’t feasible, possible or even planned for.

Lockdowns are down for two reasons.

One to reduce case numbers and lessen the strain on medical services which we done.

Secondly to buy ourselves time, time to put in the proper infrastructure, proper systems and procedures in place to deal with subsequent waves during the pandemic.

Which to be honest we haven’t done, a test and trace system that’s a joke and an IT system that can’t cope with more than 2000 cases a day by all accounts.

None of that is on joe soap public.

No where in europe has managed this when lockdown eases. They all ended back up in lockdowns.

Sweden didnt do lockdowns, but I have friends there and said it's pretty bad also, schools closed etc. They were advised not to go home to visit family, they didnt.

IT was a mess for years, it's not something you can change in a year either.

Test and tracing is struggling, we all agree there. People not giving correct info for tracing doesnt help.

But in the UK, their test system is a mess. Cant even get a test in London.

So joe soap could help here. They could restrict their social contacts etc. Lockdown will bring the numbers down, what happens after depends on the joe soap behaving responsibly

Windmill100000

average_runner wrote: »

Totally agree with you. We had the same experience on access etc. Was delighted to see how tight the hospital was run. Credit to all.

The person complaining, can you name the hospital to prove you are not stirring?

I'm actually even more surprised this was in Dublin, which has always been an epicenter of covid cases.

I'm not in Dublin, but I am in am acute hospital and we follow protocol from the HSE which is across the board. This is updated constantly and I would assume all hospitals receive the same daily email updates.

average_runner

Windmill100000 wrote: »

I'm actually even more surprised this was in Dublin, which has always been an epicenter of covid cases.

I'm not in Dublin, but I am in am acute hospital and we follow protocol from the HSE which is across the board. This is updated constantly and I would assume all hospitals receive the same daily email updates.

Wouldn't call the dublin the epic centre, just higher population, link it to population, dublin drops down the list.

Windmill100000

average_runner wrote: »

Wouldn't call the dublin the epic centre, just higher population, link it to population, dublin drops down the list.

It has had the most cases quite consistently due to population so even more unbelievable that hospitals there would take a lax approach to protecting patients and staff.

the kelt

average_runner wrote: »

No where in europe has managed this when lockdown eases. They all ended back up in lockdowns.

Sweden didnt do lockdowns, but I have friends there and said it's pretty bad also, schools closed etc. They were advised not to go home to visit family, they didnt.

IT was a mess for years, it's not something you can change in a year either.

Test and tracing is struggling, we all agree there. People not giving correct info for tracing doesnt help.

But in the UK, their test system is a mess. Cant even get a test in London.

So joe soap could help here. They could restrict their social contacts etc. Lockdown will bring the numbers down, what happens after depends on the joe soap behaving responsibly

How can joe soap make the test and trace systems work and help the HSE make better use of the time afforded to them by having better systems in place.

Of course you can change IT systems in a year, way less if you want. I’ve worked in telecoms for 14 years where they’ve introduced new systems for far more complex situations in months.

Studies show you that in these situations as time goes on obedience to restrictions lessens, that’s human nature, ranting just do it doesn’t change human nature.

I’m not quite sure what Sweden and uk have to do with us not putting the proper procedures etc place when we bought enough time to do so.

Everyone is at fault, not just the fella down the road having a party, to think that’s it only the fault of the party goer is simple.

Uriel.

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Not according to NPHET!

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5408102/coronavirus-in-ireland-tony-holohan-nursing-home-visitors/

*I agree tho, it was a big mistake!

How many outbreaks in nursing homes were caused by visitors?

average_runner

the kelt wrote: »

How can joe soap make the test and trace systems work and help the HSE make better use of the time afforded to them by having better systems in place.

Of course you can change IT systems in a year, way less if you want. I’ve worked in telecoms for 14 years where they’ve introduced new systems for far more complex situations in months.

Studies show you that in these situations as time goes on obedience to restrictions lessens, that’s human nature, ranting just do it doesn’t change human nature.

I’m not quite sure what Sweden and uk have to do with us not putting the proper procedures etc place when we bought enough time to do so.

Everyone is at fault, not just the fella down the road having a party, to think that’s it only the fault of the party goer is simple.

Love to see you turn their IT system around in a year. Would take over 3 months to get the requirements and planning right. Over 4 months of coding at least, 4-5 months of testing from in house to user acceptance. Then you have the external training on it and bug fixes.

thebaz

any chance the media ask Tony some hard questions tonight - like why have Israel vaccinated 1 million people already and we are stuttering along with our vaccination program , nevermind why was ICU and hospital capacity not increased over summer, instead of scolding the public with never-ending Fear - the amount of anxiety in Ireland is beyond worrying - why cant't NPHET/HSE be pro-active in actually solving some issues that can be solved ?

FintanMcluskey

thebaz wrote: »

any chance the media ask Tony some hard questions tonight - like why have Israel vaccinated 1 million people already and we are stuttering along with our vaccination program , nevermind why was ICU and hospital capacity not increased over summer, instead of scolding the public with never-ending Fear - the amount of anxiety in Ireland is beyond worrying - why cant't NPHET/HSE be pro-active in actually solving some issues that can be solved ?

The pro Tony crew will be on to say his only job is to repeatedly mandate level 5 at all times while articulating his level of concern.

NPHET have actually 0 responsibility.

It’s such a clever set up, nobody can be held accountable for the complete load of bolix

thebaz

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

NPHET have actually 0 responsibility.

It’s such a clever set up, nobody can be held accountable for the complete load of bolix

NPHET are controlling the country right now - the only tactic they know is lockdown - I want to know why Israel today has vaccinated 1 million people - if we showed the same initiaive , the problem would be more or less sorted here - but I have no doubt no one will ask such a difficult question .

PS the answer is in EU bureaucracy , same as why we didnt stop flights form Italy back in March - I need to get out and excercise.

Hellrazer

Tony has Papal Infallability.

His comments last night that the health system cant cope with more increases in numbers should have been the one that gave him his p45.

Original lockdown was what we were all told was to give us time to prepare for a second wave. Obviously they didn't do this so someone has to be accountable. And as hes the CMO he should be the one at fault.

If I ****ed up that badly in work Id be gone before the day was out.

AndrewJRenko

the kelt wrote: »

That’s brilliant news and also the fact they have done 1800 already.

I wonder did anyone miss out on a vaccination or get burnt out by giving us those numbers? Hope not.

There's a bit of a difference in the workload and tracking involved in giving out a single number and giving out verified daily numbers.

Tenzor07 wrote: »

You're barking up the wrong tree here and holding "Tony" as some individual, he's not, he's the public face of a powerful committee with massive influence on political decisions and in charge of the states response to a health crisis..

I don't care about whether you think private business is the bad guy or not, I only care about the residents, life time tax payers and contributors to society who deserve protection.

Private business isn't the bad guy. Private businesses who expect the public purse to sort them out in the bad times, while retaining all the profits from the good times is the bad guy.

JeffKenna wrote: »

That's exactly the attitude that's toxic in the HSE, there has to be some openness to accountability.

There's a difference between accountability, and applying business-speak to healthcare.

Windmill100000

Hellrazer wrote: »

Tony has Papal Infallability.

His comments last night that the health system cant cope with more increases in numbers should have been the one that gave him his p45.

Original lockdown was what we were all told was to give us time to prepare for a second wave. Obviously they didn't do this so someone has to be accountable. And as hes the CMO he should be the one at fault.

If I ****ed up that badly in work Id be gone before the day was out.

Yes, it's a hands up, 'there's nothing else I can do' approach

normanoffside

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There's a bit of a difference in the workload and tracking involved in giving out a single number and giving out verified daily numbers.

Why are you such a HSE apologist?
We can all give reasons and excuses for poor performance in our work but when we keep having to give them time and time again we are eventually deemed incompetent and replaced.
At least that's how it works in the private sector....

the kelt

Hellrazer wrote: »

Tony has Papal Infallability.

His comments last night that the health system cant cope with more increases in numbers should have been the one that gave him his p45.

Original lockdown was what we were all told was to give us time to prepare for a second wave. Obviously they didn't do this so someone has to be accountable. And as hes the CMO he should be the one at fault.

If I ****ed up that badly in work Id be gone before the day was out.

To be fair to Tony he’s not responsible for the the HSE getting it’s sh1t in order.

Hellrazer

the kelt wrote: »

To be fair to Tony he’s not responsible for the the HSE getting it’s sh1t in order.

But hes the boss and has to take some responsibility.

thebaz

Hellrazer wrote: »

Tony has Papal Infallability.

His comments last night that the health system cant cope with more increases in numbers should have been the one that gave him his p45.

Original lockdown was what we were all told was to give us time to prepare for a second wave. Obviously they didn't do this so someone has to be accountable. And as hes the CMO he should be the one at fault.

If I ****ed up that badly in work Id be gone before the day was out.

Will never happen , Tony is loved by the majority , who overlook his past , and think he is doing a wonderful job , fanfarred by the media who give him such an easy ride, no one questions his past or his failure to look beyond his level 5 lockdown approach - Why didnt we dynaimcally increase hospital and ICU capacity over the summer - and more importantly, Why are we not rolling out the vaccine like Israel ?

Solar2021

Uriel. wrote: »

How many outbreaks in nursing homes were caused by visitors?

Who knows

They don't test residents or visitors in nursing homes, only staff.

Residents only get a test if sick or close contact

normanoffside

the kelt wrote: »

To be fair to Tony he’s not responsible for the the HSE getting it’s sh1t in order.

Tony and NPHET is just a HSE excuse making front.
No wonder as a sizeable number of the 40 NPHET members are HSE employees and Tony's job as CMO is to oversee the smooth running of the health service.

wrote:

The key responsibilities of the CMO include providing expert medical evidence, especially in public health matters, as well as leading on patient safety issues, emergency planning and other areas

Boggles

Jesus. Some people on here literally have no clue what NPHET's role is.

Tony is the boss of the HSE? :pac:

Fúcking hell, we are 2 pages away from blaming him for Shergar.

FintanMcluskey

Boggles wrote: »

Jesus. Some people on here literally have no clue what NPHET's role is.

Tony is the boss of the HSE? :pac:

Fúcking hell, we are 2 pages away from blaming him for Shergar.

I’ve always felt Tony was suspiciously quiet when it came to talking about Shergar

normanoffside

Boggles wrote: »

Jesus. Some people on here literally have no clue what NPHET's role is.

Tony is the boss of the HSE? :pac:

Fúcking hell, we are 2 pages away from blaming him for Shergar.

His job definition literally states that he is responsible for emergency planning and patient safety in the healthcare sector.

If none of the things people criticise him for are his responsibility; please then tell me what his responsibility actually is.

GreeBo

Mean Laqueefa wrote: »

ones hobby and drive to do something difficult and try become there best self at it is amazing , you should never mock someone when they loose there chance at chasing it

It's temporary for Gods sake, they didn't lose their legs.

Tork

What's Paul Reid's job?

normanoffside

Tork wrote: »

What's Paul Reid's job?

To come up with good excuses and to pass the blame onto someone else when that doesn't work.

Boggles

normanoffside wrote: »

His job definition literally states that he is responsible for emergency planning and patient safety in the healthcare sector.

If none of the things people criticise him for are his responsibility; please then tell me what his responsibility actually is.

NPHET's job is to advise. Which they do, governance and the HSE.

Tony is not the boss of the HSE, that's not my opinion.

The HSE and governance choose whether to implement that advice.

e.g.

Glynn wrote to the HSE 3 times advising them to beef up their contact tracing before it buckled in October.

They didn't beef it up.

Now is that Glynns fault or Paul Reid's fault?

normanoffside

Boggles wrote: »

NPHET's job is to advise. Which they do, governance and the HSE.

Tony is not the boss of the HSE, that's not my opinion.

The HSE and governance choose whether to implement that advice.

e.g.

Glynn wrote to the HSE 3 times advising them to beef up their contact tracing before it buckled in October.

They didn't beef it up.

Now is that Glynns fault or Paul Reid's fault?

I'm not apologising for Paul Reid.
But most of NPHET are HSE employees so NPHET may as well be writing a letter to themselves.

The Job of a CEO in a private company involves overseeing operations and management of all aspects of the company, advising different departments making sure it works correctly and in tandem.

If a company fails the buck ultimately stops with the CEO.
I don't see that a CMO is any different, if his 'advice' is falling on deaf ears he needs to be more forceful and make it happen.

Penfailed

Hellrazer wrote: »

But hes the boss and has to take some responsibility.

He's not the boss of the HSE.

Boggles

normanoffside wrote: »

I'm not apologising for Paul Reid.
But most of NPHET are HSE employees so NPHET may as well be writing a letter to themselves.

The Job of a CEO in a private company involves overseeing operations and management of all aspects of the company, advising different departments making sure it works correctly and in tandem.

If a company fails the buck ultimately stops with the CEO.

The CEO in this instance is Paul Reid.

normanoffside wrote: »

I don't see that a CMO is any different, if his 'advice' is falling on deaf ears he needs to be more forceful and make it happen.

He should get Reid and Donnelly in a head lock?



Most of NPHET's advice is published, it's not within their remit to do much else. Also you are one of the more vocal ones that are against their advice, so I don't really see what you are complaining about now.

You are barking up the wrong tree.

GreeBo

normanoffside wrote: »

His job definition literally states that he is responsible for emergency planning and patient safety in the healthcare sector.

If none of the things people criticise him for are his responsibility; please then tell me what his responsibility actually is.

Emergency.... Not day to day HSE.