Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Grandeeod

Grandeeod wrote: »

I know lots of people who disregarded the advice. They still are as of today.

People were allowed to visit restaurants in the build up to Christmas by the Government while at the same time NPHET said just because you can it doesn't mean you have too. NPHET also advised the Government to allow restaurants/pub dining or home visits. The Government allowed both.

The increasing numbers are proof that some people made wrong decisions and the Government enabled them.

So let me just get this straight... the country has been locked down or heavily restricted for close to a year now.

When some slight freedoms are offered for a few weeks, people are wrong to take them?

So we should all lock ourselves down even when not officially in lockdown?

Ok....

froog

froog wrote: »

you don't seem to understand how a lockdown reduces cases so i think we're done here.

The situation in May is not the same as now. We should have opened up. Unless of course you want permanent lockdown, which seems to be the case. Don’t need lockdown if you are already locked down.

And that people should lockdown themselves even when we are not in lockdown.

Strange arguements...

froog

Deleted User wrote: »

The situation in May is not the same as now. We should have opened up. Unless of course you want permanent lockdown, which seems to be the case. Don’t need lockdown if you are already locked down.

And that people should lockdown themselves even when we are not in lockdown.

Strange arguements...

we should adjust the level of restrictions relative to how prevalent the virus is. it was correct to open up in may, it was not correct to open up in december with 300-400 daily cases. the government did not take NPHETs advise due to intense pressure from people like the posters in this thread and lobby groups. the government are to blame and also the many people who took unnecessary risks over christmas.

Kermit.de.frog

Looks like there will be big pressure on the health services. Positivity rate is now at 22%.

We probably need to go beyond current restrictions.

PTH2009

No excuses for keeping the strong restrictions when the most vulnerable are vaccinated but we all know were so slow at doing that and it will be just doom and gloom lockdown lockdown lockdown

Write off Jan and start of Feb, look to start opening back up Mid/End Feb start of March. Keep the pubs closed and open them up end of March if its Paddy's Day there scared off

froog

froog wrote: »

we should adjust the level of restrictions relative to how prevalent the virus is. it was correct to open up in may, it was not correct to open up in december with 300-400 daily cases. the government did not take NPHETs advise due to intense pressure from people like the posters in this thread and lobby groups. the government are to blame and also the many people who took unnecessary risks over christmas.

If we only we had something like a 5 level plan...

Oh wait we do. But Tony just wants lockdown or lockdown light so the plan is useless.

NPHET advised the government to lockdown for 6 weeks and the models showed we would be at 50 - 100 cases a day, with cases growing again in mid January.

The government listened and did as advised. But NPHET were wrong once again. The case volumes didn’t drop as NPHET modelled.

The government were left in a horrible position. They couldn’t cancel Christmas after dangling the carrot and enforcing lockdown for 6 weeks with a promise of more lockdown straight after Christmas.

Hopefully NPHET reviewed their models. They’ve led us in the wrong direction on many occasions now.

Grandeeod

Deleted User wrote: »

So let me just get this straight... the country has been locked down or heavily restricted for close to a year now.

When some slight freedoms are offered for a few weeks, people are wrong to take them?

So we should all lock ourselves down even when not officially in lockdown?

Ok....

I've been reading this thread for months and hardly said a word. I read both sides here as its very divisive and took both views into consideration. You are doing what you always tend to do and that is spin another persons post.

I never said people were wrong to take slight freedoms. I said some people made wrong decisions. Nor did I say we should lock ourselves down when not officially in lockdown.

When these slight freedoms, as you put it, were offered, people took the piss. The source for my viewpoint are the current numbers and my experiences in my rural enough part of the country. and one particular eye opener in a hotel in Dublin during Christmas week. Now before you jump on that by accusing me of being there in the first place, I was dropping a set of keys to reception. It was work related. Only the second bit of work I've done since things went tits up in March.

You cannot deny that some people went overboard and businesses facilitated it. You cannot deny that some people took the house visits to the extreme. You surely cannot deny that the current figures reflect that. I don't want lockdowns. I don't want to be accepting social welfare payments despite it being through no fault of my own. I hate it. I want my life back. I'll take slight freedoms and enjoy them responsibly. But some people need to cop the fook on and stop acting the bollox because your nemesis Dr. Tony only deals in numbers and you won't change that.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Looks like there will be big pressure on the health services. Positivity rate is now at 22%.

We probably need to go beyond current restrictions.

Nothing more they can do apart from maybe closing construction.

You can’t catch it in schools apparently so not much point closing those. Unless of course they admit that’s rubbish.

B.A._Baracus

3,394 cases is something else.

Uriel.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The situation in May is not the same as now. We should have opened up. Unless of course you want permanent lockdown, which seems to be the case. Don’t need lockdown if you are already locked down.

And that people should lockdown themselves even when we are not in lockdown.

Strange arguements...

Government ****ed up and it was clear the last month that the public health advice and the government position diverged considerably. I just hope there's not a substantial price to pay for that

In one way, I can't blame people because of the message thst came from government. However, people are smart enough to look at the situation and make personal judgments.

My wife and I have been out for dinner in a restaurant twice since the pandemic started. We had plenty of other opportunities but decided not to take them. In part, because my wife is a front line health care worker and didn't want to take the risk of bringing covid into a hospital. She took, in my view, a sensible personal judgment based on the information (not just the government official position) available. Everyone else can also take such decisions if they so choose.

Advice is smoking is bad for your health. Nobody is forcing people not to. But people still make the decision to smoke notwithstanding the overarching evidence available. Those people are stupid in my opinion. But there you go

Grandeeod

Grandeeod wrote: »

I've been reading this thread for months and hardly said a word. I read both sides here as its very divisive and took both views into consideration. You are doing what you always tend to do and that is spin another persons post.

I never said people were wrong to take slight freedoms. I said some people made wrong decisions. Nor did I say we should lock ourselves down when not officially in lockdown.

When these slight freedoms, as you put it, were offered, people took the piss. The source for my viewpoint are the current numbers and my experiences in my rural enough part of the country. and one particular eye opener in a hotel in Dublin during Christmas week. Now before you jump on that by accusing me of being there in the first place, I was dropping a set of keys to reception. It was work related. Only the second bit of work I've done since things went tits up in March.

You cannot deny that some people went overboard and businesses facilitated it. You cannot deny that some people took the house visits to the extreme. You surely cannot deny that the current figures reflect that. I don't want lockdowns. I don't want to be accepting social welfare payments despite it being through no fault of my own. I hate it. I want my life back. I'll take slight freedoms and enjoy them responsibly. But some people need to cop the fook on and stop acting the bollox because your nemesis Dr. Tony only deals in numbers and you won't change that.

That’s a good post and I feel a bit bad now that I jumped on you.

Of course people take the p*ss, and it is very frustrating.

A lot of people are reasonably responsible as well.

I just get the vibe that sometimes people always get blamed and it’s not always warranted. That’s not aimed at you though.

Hellrazer

Penfailed wrote: »

He's not the boss of the HSE.

Uriel. wrote: »

but he's not, and the fact that you think he is, just demonstrates how little people know and/or want to know.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No, he's not.

Tony's role as CMO is NOT to oversee the running of the health service, smooth or otherwise.

You both seem to be fairly confused about the roles and structure of NPHET, Dept Health and HSE. You might want to read up before you embarrass yourself more.

Genuinely Please explain what his role is then?

Gov.ie
says its

Responsibility for provision of strategic leadership and evidence-based analysis and expert medical advice to the department, government, broader health system and regulatory and professional bodies; leads the development and coordination of health and wellbeing policy including the development of policy to address communicable diseases, immunisation, vaccination, smoking, alcohol misuse, bioethical issues; providing secretarial support to NPHET in response to COVID-19 pandemic.

Wikipedia says

The Chief Medical Officer (CMO) (Irish: An Príomh-Oifigeach Míochaine) for the Ireland is the most senior government advisor on health-related matters. It is a government post as the lead medical expert in the Department of Health.

The key responsibilities of the CMO include providing expert medical evidence, especially in public health matters, as well as leading on patient safety issues, emergency planning and other areas.

Uriel.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If we only we had something like a 5 level plan...

Oh wait we do. But Tony just wants lockdown or lockdown light so the plan is useless.

NPHET advised the government to lockdown for 6 weeks and the models showed we would be at 50 - 100 cases a day, with cases growing again in mid January.

The government listened and did as advised. But NPHET were wrong once again. The case volumes didn’t drop as NPHET modelled.

The government were left in a horrible position. They couldn’t cancel Christmas after dangling the carrot and enforcing lockdown for 6 weeks with a promise of more lockdown straight after Christmas.

Hopefully NPHET reviewed their models. They’ve led us in the wrong direction on many occasions now.

Jsut so you know, the 5 levels aren't even NPHET levels. Thats a construct of government.

You'll also realise if you bothered to look closely enough that government has only chosen a La carte from their own 5 levels, putting in also sort of exemptions and caveats.
NPHET advised government to delay going to level 3 to later in December.
Government ****ed up and ****ed up royally on this one.

NPHET don't need to change their modelling at all.

Busi_Girl08

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

3,394 cases is something else.

Tip of the iceberg unfortunately

dodzy

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

3,394 cases is something else.

Expect several days of this while they consume the unreported backlog of almost 10K.

Uriel.

Hellrazer wrote: »

Genuinely Please explain what his role is then?

Gov.ie
says its


Wikipedia says

Nothing in what you quoted suggests in anyway thst Tony Holohan runs or is responsible for the operation of the health system.

emeldc

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

Tip of the iceberg unfortunately

dodzy wrote: »

Expect several days of this while they consume the unreported backlog of almost 10K.

Nah, there’ll be the usual posters on shortly to say, Tony’s ego, manipulated figures, stable icu, ridiculous lockdowns, blah, blah blah.

JRant

Hellrazer wrote: »

Genuinely Please explain what his role is then?

Gov.ie
says its


Wikipedia says

It's like the magical relationship between the HSE and Health minister. Either one can deflect and blame to other while at the exact same time neither would seem to be responsible for anything. It's a merry dance they weave.

Hellrazer

Uriel. wrote: »

Nothing in what you quoted suggests in anyway thst Tony Holohan runs or is responsible for the operation of the health system.

But you haven't answered my question. What is his role?

You said

but he's not, and the fact that you think he is, just demonstrates how little people know and/or want to know.

Yet you haven't explained what his role is either!!

Asdfgh2020

People can try and blame NPHET/Government etc for the current growth in figures but the amount of disregard of the guidelines/restrictions was/is absolutely astounding.......stories of ‘Christmas Lock-ins’, funerals with 150/200 in attendance and functions afterwards etc etc...utterly moronic/retarded/selfish behavior and we are ‘reaping the rewards’ of it now......what ever about the hand washing and mask wearing but the no 1 reason for the current exponential growth incase numbers is due to people not limiting/reducing their social contacts........is it really such an ask....?

JRant

Asdfgh2020 wrote: »

People can try and blame NPHET/Government etc for the current growth in figures but the amount of disregard of the guidelines/restrictions was/is absolutely astounding.......stories of ‘Christmas Lock-ins’, funerals with 150/200 in attendance and functions afterwards etc etc...utterly moronic/retarded/selfish behavior and we are ‘reaping the rewards’ of it now......what ever about the hand washing and mask wearing but the no 1 reason for the current exponential growth incase numbers is due to people not limiting/reducing their social contacts........is it really such an ask....?

Yeah, it's all our own fault alright. Nothing to do with letting over 50,000 fly into the country with no mandated quarantine in place from one of the worst COVID hotspots in the world. Sure it's all our fault for going to the shops and restaurants.

I think we are now seeing the results of the weak government response to all those travelling here from outside the State.

FintanMcluskey

Asdfgh2020 wrote: »

People can try and blame NPHET/Government etc for the current growth in figures but the amount of disregard of the guidelines/restrictions was/is absolutely astounding.......stories of ‘Christmas Lock-ins’, funerals with 150/200 in attendance and functions afterwards etc etc...utterly moronic/retarded/selfish behavior and we are ‘reaping the rewards’ of it now......what ever about the hand washing and mask wearing but the no 1 reason for the current exponential growth incase numbers is due to people not limiting/reducing their social contacts........is it really such an ask....?

It possibly is to expect it indefinitely. It’s never been done before. Couple with the fact most cases aren’t actually causing people to be sick up to now.

We have had 10 months of it

Didn’t the WHO advise months ago the lockdowns were only a blunt exercise to get the healthcare service on order?

Micky 32

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing more they can do apart from maybe closing construction.

You can’t catch it in schools apparently so not much point closing those. Unless of course they admit that’s rubbish.

I think that some certain posters would be very happy to see a big bolt and chain on your front door with a flap on the bottom so the army can slide you in your bread and water.

Uriel.

Hellrazer wrote: »

But you haven't answered my question. What is his role?

You said

Yet you haven't explained what his role is either!!

He provides medical/clinical advice to the Minister for Health. He leads a number of policy areas in the Department of Health reporting to the secretary general and the Minister. He's a clinical and policy advisor and not responsible for operations. That's legally a matter for the HSE as per the Health Act 2004.

Primarily in respect of policy he oversees policy on patient safety, bioethics and communicable diseases to name but a few. Albeit he is a professional expert he's realistically not all the different to other equivalent grades (assistant Secretaries).

facehugger99

Asdfgh2020 wrote: »

People can try and blame NPHET/Government etc for the current growth in figures but the amount of disregard of the guidelines/restrictions was/is absolutely astounding.......stories of ‘Christmas Lock-ins’, funerals with 150/200 in attendance and functions afterwards etc etc...utterly moronic/retarded/selfish behavior and we are ‘reaping the rewards’ of it now......what ever about the hand washing and mask wearing but the no 1 reason for the current exponential growth incase numbers is due to people not limiting/reducing their social contacts........is it really such an ask....?

It was always going to happen over Christmas - you can't keep people locked up for months on end, spend a whole summer finger-wagging while cases were in single digits, constantly pump out fear and hysteria and not expect the public to just jack it in when Christmas arrives.

From my own circle, I don't know anyone who slavishly followed the restrictions over the Christmas period, and this would include older people who had been on board for months - they were just sick of it.

The numbers will drop now naturally. But thanks to the the sh;tshow health service we have, it's the retail and hospitality sectors who will once again be fcuked over for the next couple of months by our cowardly politicians .

normanoffside

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

3,394 cases is something else.

What if I told you there were actually 5k Yesterday, 4.5k today and theres now a 10k backlog to add.

I used to think NPHET and HSPC were being strategic and sneaky in their announcement of big numbers and backlogs but I am beginning to realise that as usual they are just plain incompetent

thebaz

Within this never-ending doom - can someone please explain to me why Israel have already vaccinated 1 Million people :-
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-55514243

yet, Ireland HOPE to vaccinate all Nursing home staff and residents (70,000) by the end of the month :-
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/all-nursing-home-residents-staff-should-get-first-vaccine-dose-by-end-of-month-1.4449080

Why the lack of urgency when we have been in National emergency mode for nearly 9 months , with the country more or less paralyzed on NPHET advice ?

normanoffside

Hellrazer wrote: »

But you haven't answered my question. What is his role?

You said

Yet you haven't explained what his role is either!!

His role is simple, he advises full lockdown at the drop of a hat and tells everyone how concerned he is.
Now when things are actually bad no-one believes him as he has said it a thousand times before.

normanoffside

Uriel. wrote: »

He provides medical/clinical advice to the Minister for Health. He leads a number of policy areas in the Department of Health reporting to the secretary general and the Minister. He's a clinical and policy advisor and not responsible for operations. That's legally a matter for the HSE as per the Health Act 2004.

So why is he all over the telly, radio and twitter every day?

Boggles

normanoffside wrote: »

Now when things are actually bad no-one believes him as he has said it a thousand times before.

According to your sentence you believe him.

So at least one person, correct?