Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Micky 32

Micky 32 wrote: »

I can’t help wondering that it’s some sort of fantasy to watch the misery of people locked up. It’s clearly obvious that last year we didn’t need a curfew to reduce the 160 in icu and the 800 in hospital last year, it had to be as rampant then. He failed to address that when i asked him.

I can’t say for sure.

He has admitted before that he just hates bookies and would love to see them all closed.

He has admitted that he hates pubs and drink culture.

He seems to have a huge beef with Christmas as well and now wants a curfew.

I don’t know whether he is just disproportionately terrified of this illness or perhaps as you say, just enjoys the misery.

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

I mean, that really is just a load of rambling nonsense...

We’ve been in this situation twice already. Cases will drop off again very soon as Jan is a quiet month.

You seem to be just throwing a strop because of Christmas.

You said that when all this started, you knew it would be far more severe.... You do realise that it has been far LESS severe. Even a completely overstated death toll is just over 2k compared to the 200k that some predicted.

Please do explain as well why you think a curfew will help when everywhere is closed.

Why has it been less severe than it would have been?

Seems to me it's time to consider the other point of view tbh.

JRant

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Well no, you're drawing conclusions that are not in step with reality of my own view on things or the situation the country faces. I'm happily employed incidentally and i'm also doing a lot of WFH. Why that's relevant I don't know but you seemed to imply otherwise.

It happens constantly on here - that I and others want this or want to see people miserable and all that rubbish. Nothing could be further from the truth.

It is the reality of the problems that confront us that certain things are, unfortunately, required to keep control of a situation that if out of control will have a sad end for a lot of families. Nobody wants that.

We don't have control.

We had control, it was thrown away for the sake of Christmas essentially.

So we are where we are.

These things and choices have consequences and what you are describing is best put as a first world problem. It's not top of the bucket list to my mind of issues. It's an inconvenience.

These inconveniences will save lives in the end.

When this all started I knew straight away the consequences would be far more severe health wise, economically, societally than a lot of people seemed to appreciate at the time, that this was a much longer term and deeper problem.

But I thought as long as the country retained control then it would benefit us in the long run.

That won't be the case now.

So the country has to take measures that most people don't like but for which we have zero choices.

We had choices at the start of December. We don't have them now.

I don't know what other way to put it. Very few can complain now about the place we find ourselves in.

Hang on a second Kermit, these restrictions are not mere inconveniences as you describe them. They are extreme, large parts of the economy forcibly shutdown, hundreds of thousands made unemployed by the State, strict travel restriction on the citizen on distances they can travel. Acknowledging these facts does nothing to lessen your point of view but you simply can't say they are mere inconveniences.

Sure, the cases are by all accounts quite high but we don't really know because they can't/won't give actual data, just suggestions that there is a 10k backlog. Where did this backlog come from? Why not just report the actual numbers if they know them?

An R0 of just under 2 should be perfectly manageable with Level 5 restrictions. No need for stupid curfews, which will have a negligible effect anyway.

Do you know what would actually save lives and in a much better manner than locking down an entire economy?
Get the finger out and vaccinate those in nursing homes and HCW's.

They've had months to plan for it so the slow pace is an absolute shambles. Why didn't we do a side deal with Pfizer to procure additional vaccines outside of the EU's deal? Why didn't we have vaccination centres already staffed and up and running weeks ago in anticipation of getting these vaccines?

Any additional deaths in nursing homes and hospitals from here on out are directly at the governments feet. The population have held up their end of the bargain for nearly 10 months now. Unfortunately we have been consistently let down by those supposed to be "leading" the country.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Why has it been less severe than it would have been?

Seems to me it's time to consider the other point of view tbh.

Because people were wrong about how dangerous Covid is.

We have less than 50 deaths under the age of 65 in half a year now.

Kermit.de.frog

JRant wrote: »

Hang on a second Kermit, these restrictions are not mere inconveniences as you describe them.

No, that's not what I said. I was talking about the inconveniences in the type she/he described flippantly. Not being able to go out because you work from home...this is not a pressing issue at the top of the list of concerns.

That was my point.

I was not referring to the tougher overall restrictions that do effect people lives in a significant way.

Every country in the world is enforcing these restrictions for the same reasons, to protect the health of their citizens.

It's not done lightly or on a whim.

This is all inevitable in a pandemic and it's sad but a lot more people get hurt than those that get ill, I agree. No one wants that but it is unavoidable.

When this is over the world will be a lot more clued in to at least one risk we face, you can be sure of that.

That is the only positive that comes from this in my opinion.

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

Because people were wrong about how dangerous Covid is.

We have less than 50 deaths under the age of 65 in half a year now.

The reason it has not been as bad as it could have been until now were the restrictions in place.

tdf7187

Latest figures show that there are 581 patients with Covid-19 in hospitals around the country, with 56 of these in intensive care units.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0103/1187413-coronavirus-ireland/

These are tiny numbers, which is good.

Why are our figures so much better than the US and the UK? I assume it goes back to our lockdowns being implemented more promptly.

I am reading that one in a thousand have died (not contracted, DIED) of Covid in the Dakotas.

Richard Hillman

The case loads in Dublin have been quite low (there probably hasnt been backlogs though). Roughly speaking
Tuesday 400 out of 1500
Wednesday 350 out of 2200
Thursday 500 out of 1600
Friday 500 out of 1700
Saturday 350 out of 3500

We were being told that opening up retail was the driver. People going to pubs. People congregating outside of pubs for outdoor pints. These dates are from contractions roughly from around the days before Christmas, the busiest time. They are not outrageous numbers as a percentage. Mostly below the population average and definitely below population density.

What's going on?

Russman

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The case loads in Dublin have been quite low (there probably hasnt been backlogs though). Roughly speaking
Tuesday 400 out of 1500
Wednesday 350 out of 2200
Thursday 500 out of 1600
Friday 500 out of 1700
Saturday 350 out of 3500

We were being told that opening up retail was the driver. People going to pubs. People congregating outside of pubs for outdoor pints. These dates are from contractions roughly from around the days before Christmas, the busiest time. They are not outrageous numbers as a percentage. Mostly below the population average and definitely below population density.

What's going on?

I’d guess when the 10k backlog is apportioned out those numbers might be quite different. Who knows though.
Dublin, from memory, was usually around 25% of the daily total or at least seemed to be in recent months. Someone mentioned (not sure on which thread) that a lot of the backlog was private testing - I’d imagine there was more of that in Dublin ? Might bring the numbers back into line maybe.

Solar2021

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The reason it has not been as bad as it could have been until now were the restrictions in place.

True

In Wuhan it was an Ro of 6, doubling everyday before they found it

We are at Ro of 1.8 now they believe and we will struggle

Letting it run free is impossible with any population over 35 years old

Might be able to do it in Niger, not here

dwainec

A curfew may well work. Then again, maybe they should implement level 5 properly first and see if that works

facehugger99

dwainec wrote: »

A curfew may well work. Then again, maybe they should implement level 5 properly first and see if that works

All non essential retail should be open.

It's an absolute disgrace that these businesses and workers are once again being sacrificed to cover the bureaucrats' arses.

Numbers are going to drop anyway in the next couple of weeks because the social meet-ups for Christmas won't be happening but I'm sure Dr Tony and Co. will congratulate themselves that closing hairdressers and clothes shops were what saved the day.

What exactly have the HSE been doing for the last 10 months if a few hundred people in hospital is enough to swamp the system and close down the entire country?

Once again, the longterm cost of the Covid hysteria will lead to far more deaths than Covid.

JRant

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No, that's not what I said. I was talking about the inconveniences in the type she/he described flippantly. Not being able to go out because you work from home...this is not a pressing issue at the top of the list of concerns.

That was my point.

I was not referring to the tougher overall restrictions that do effect people lives in a significant way.

Every country in the world is enforcing these restrictions for the same reasons, to protect the health of their citizens.

It's not done lightly or on a whim.

This is all inevitable in a pandemic and it's sad but a lot more people get hurt than those that get ill, I agree. No one wants that but it is unavoidable.

When this is over the world will be a lot more clued in to at least one risk we face, you can be sure of that.

That is the only positive that comes from this in my opinion.

Fair enough, I thought you were talking about the restrictions in general. I'm glad you realise that these restrictions are affecting more people than this virus.

One point though, and it's an important one for me anyway, is that these lockdowns are being done in a way that doesn't inspire any confidence. We are not shown the data as to why such long hard lockdowns are required. When pushed for details (which is rare in the Irish media) the don't have solid answers other than "the modelling indicates". What modelling? How is it arrived at? What are the criteria for moving levels? What variables are they looking at?

At the moment it has the appearance of the panic button being pressed. The plan was Level 5 lite, then it moved to full level 5 before it even started and now a few days into it we are told level 5 isn't enough. We have serious problems coming in 2021 and beyond with the current levels of unemployment and borrowing. Neither of which will be solved by a vaccine.

tdf7187

dwainec wrote: »

A curfew may well work.

No.

dwainec wrote: »

Then again, maybe they should implement level 5 properly first and see if that works

Some of you won't be happy until the guards have powers to enter private dwellings to check if people aren't coughing.

tdf7187

JRant wrote: »

Fair enough, I thought you were talking about the restrictions in general. I'm glad you realise that these restrictions are affecting more people than this virus.

One point though, and it's an important one for me anyway, is that these lockdowns are being done in a way that doesn't inspire any confidence. We are not shown the data as to why such long hard lockdowns are required. When pushed for details (which is rare in the Irish media) the don't have solid answers other than "the modelling indicates". What modelling? How is it arrived at? What are the criteria for moving levels? What variables are they looking at?

At the moment it has the appearance of the panic button being pressed. The plan was Level 5 lite, then it moved to full level 5 before it even started and now a few days into it we are told level 5 isn't enough. We have serious problems coming in 2021 and beyond with the current levels of unemployment and borrowing. Neither of which will be solved by a vaccine.

The borrowing is not an issue and I wish people who are sceptics of the government's current strategy would stop bringing it up. The Central Bank should, as per David McWilliams, be authorised to hand out cheques to everyone, as the US are doing. Those who keep on about the borrowing don't understand basic macroeconomics and the fact that the public finances are in a relatively healthy state with governments around the world keeping interest rates at near zero and Ireland's credit ratings being hugely improved since the financial crisis.

Unemployment, as you've stated, and mental health issues - these are the issues you should be highlighting.

47akak

tdf7187 wrote: »

No.



Some of you won't be happy until the guards have powers to enter private dwellings to check if people aren't coughing.

What?

dwainec

tdf7187 wrote: »

No.



Some of you won't be happy until the guards have powers to enter private dwellings to check if people aren't coughing.

I didn't say that! I said it would be good if level 5 was actually implemented. Not a free for all click and collect bull.... And shops buying in high Viz jackets and boots so they can open as they're now "essential"

tdf7187

dwainec wrote: »

I didn't say that! I said it would be good if level 5 was actually implemented. Not a free for all click and collect bull.... And shops buying in high Viz jackets and boots so they can open as they're now "essential"

I don't think it would be 'good' at all. We have different views of life, different views of what's important.

Collecting packaged stuff from the take away is very low risk.

Poorside

tdf7187 wrote: »

I don't think it would be 'good' at all. We have different views of life, different views of what's important.

Collecting packaged stuff from the take away is very low risk.

Except that's not what's happening in a lot of shops, I work in a retail park and while some have taped off certain areas they are all still open for people to walk in and browse.

Boggles

Lundstram wrote: »

There has to be a trade off, though. We spent a huge portion of the summer in lockdown

If you spent a huge portion of the summer locked down that was a personal choice.

Solar2021

Boggles wrote: »

If you spent a huge portion of the summer locked down that was a personal choice.

Is it also a personal choice this winter?

Birdie Num Num

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Unfortunately if it fits the neither regions it won’t cover my nose

I just thought it could hold in all that b*ll*cks you spout!

dwainec

Poorside wrote: »

Except that's not what's happening in a lot of shops, I work in a retail park and while some have taped off certain areas they are all still open for people to walk in and browse.

That's exactly what I mean! Some are making they're own rules up, then giving out that we're being asked to shut down.

I went in to get an o Briens take away during the last lock down when it was meant to be take away only. As I was collecting 3/4 women walked around from the back with a few shopping bags and said thanks to the cashier and left. Clear that they were sitting in

growleaves

storker wrote: »

Ah yes, a "social experiment". Northing to do with a reaction to a pandemic then. Did you play the Fallout games, by any chance?

Nothing like this has been attempted before on this scale therefore it is a social experiment.

I have no familiarity with Fallout games and I don't get the reference.

WicklaBlaa

dwainec wrote: »

That's exactly what I mean! Some are making they're own rules up, then giving out that we're being asked to shut down.

I went in to get an o Briens take away during the last lock down when it was meant to be take away only. As I was collecting 3/4 women walked around from the back with a few shopping bags and said thanks to the cashier and left. Clear that they were sitting in

They could have been using the loo.

WicklaBlaa

tdf7187 wrote: »

I don't think it would be 'good' at all. We have different views of life, different views of what's important.

Collecting packaged stuff from the take away is very low risk.

This. The closing down of shops is just weak and strikes of panic.

Very very low risk places.

It's households that are the problem. People meeting for over 15 minutes in groups indoors. Weddings, funerals, gatherings in pubs, restaurants.

Keep the schools closed for an extra two weeks. Without the Christmas socialising, numbers are going to fall.

New measures are not required.

This is good advice. Act as if you’re infected. By extension act as if everyone you come into contact is infected. Wear a mask, sanitise hands, keep your distance and keep interactions as brief as possible, get vaccinated.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40200066.html

ElektroToad

I would've thought the health service is doing fine comparatively speaking?

I mean everyone knows that over last 10 years or so, we would have 400 or 500+ patients at any given time on trolleys in overrun hospitals due during our winter flu season.

This year we've no such trolley crisis. Instead we have couple of dozen in ICU (admitted for whatever reason, mind you!) And yet apparently we are told our health system cannot cope is about to collapse?

Does not compute???

Ginger n Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

This is good advice. Act as if you’re infected. By extension act as if everyone you come into contact is infected. Wear a mask, sanitise hands, keep your distance and keep interactions as brief as possible, get vaccinated.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40200066.html

I see this thread still produces classics :pac:

I wonder if you realize if entire 4,900,000 population would follow your advice our suicides would sky rocket. Its not good for mental health to be acting the way you are suggesting, for MONTHS on end.

That advice is only good if you want 0 covid. However if you also want 0 suicides, 0 cancer deaths, 0 deaths from missed hospital appointments etc. that advice is in fact - horrible.

the kelt

Deleted User wrote: »

This is good advice. Act as if you’re infected. By extension act as if everyone you come into contact is infected. Wear a mask, sanitise hands, keep your distance and keep interactions as brief as possible, get vaccinated.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40200066.html

Until in a few days they try and tell people that schools are safe and send your kids back.

How does the message of everyone act as if they are infected marry with but with everyone being infected it’s ok for 30 odd people to sit in a confined room with no masks and no social distancing for hours on end going home then to 30 odd different families in the locality