Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

SusieBlue

froog wrote: »

the decision of the government to open up the country for christmas was a massive mistake. that much is clear.

but the same people who were campaigning hard to open up, are the exact same people now shouting at the government for messing things up. it's ludicrous.

Nope, it wasn’t a mistake. Putting people through 2 months of lockdown before Christmas, depriving them of their families and friends, and then expecting them to continue avoiding them when restrictions were lifted was the mistake.

I honestly believe if they had allowed people meet outdoors during that time in October/November we wouldn’t have seen so many people desperate for human contact last month.

The mistake is expecting people to be robots, and expecting those who are not high risk to keep giving and keep sacrificing with very little hope at the end of the tunnel.

TallyRand

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm of the distinct impression there is an elaborate cover-up being performed to protect the reputation of the HSE and their hideaway administrators. All summer long and into the autumn: "Well then, about those ICU beds. Who wants to pick up the slack. Wait, did you see the slip Maura wore on the afternoon show? Atrocious". Flat-line organisational structure, nobody taking any responsibility and the can is kicked round in circles. After all that dawdling and hole scratching, the inevitable panic stations when the realisation dawns they're ill prepared for a small increase in critical admissions. Enter NPHET and Tony Holohan to save their hides and vigorously blame the public. Media ramping up the hysteria, when hospitals still have vacant beds and idle wards. Now compare that to the seasonal flu last winter and people clogging up the hallways on trolleys. Not taken in by this charade anymore. Once bitten, twice shy and thrice fed up to the back teeth.

Here and largely around the world, the lockdowns is basically politics at work.......total hysteria.

A 99.7% recovery rate virus that, lets be straight here, Only really affects very old or people with underlying issues and the prevention method is ludicrous lockdowns. Definitely going to be case study on reactions and affects on a mass scale to normally fairly rational people

TallyRand

SMC92Ian wrote: »

STFU, just because my parents are old doesn't make their lives less meaningful than little Timmy what's his face.

Keep your parents in doors and lockdown themselves, that’s not being flippant it makes the most sense until they’re vaccinated

normanoffside

froog wrote: »

the median age for death is 81 or something? so most deaths will be in nursing homes/hospitals.

did you miss where we just opened up the entire country for christmas month and people lost the plot. we now have 5000 daily cases.

blaming hospitals for where we are now? utterly ridiculous.

You miss the point, they acquired the virus inside the Hospitals and died with it. They didn't go in there with it.

If we could sort our hospitals and nursing homes out and stop them spreading the virus to vulnerable people we wouldn't have a problem today.

JRant

froog wrote: »

the decision of the government to open up the country for christmas was a massive mistake. that much is clear.

but the same people who were campaigning hard to open up, are the exact same people now shouting at the government for messing things up. it's ludicrous.

The biggest problem right now is that they are far too quick to lockdown and far too slow to lift restrictions. They are supposed to be short sharp interventions, not dragged on for months on end. That's where this government and NPHET have kind of lost support. We haven't been below level 4 in Dublin since early September apart from a brief level 3 in the run up to Christmas and they are wondering why people are not cutting the social contacts down to that of a hermit.

Whatever about their medical credentials they have overlooked a huge psychological aspect of all this. At some point people will stop listening to them if they feel there is no end in sight. No amount of worry-o-meters or sliding scale of concern levels will change basic human psychology. Those in charge have messed up by thinking people will behave the way their models tell them they should behave. It won't and will never happen so they need to get smart real quick about how they approach this next 12 months or it's going to get worse before it gets better.

I think whether you are pro restrictions or anti restrictions is starting to become less and less relevant.

We need to get vaccinating and fast. That really should be the top priority.

For so many reasons, we can’t keep going on like this.

GocRh

froog wrote: »

a few things
were you in ireland in the summer? there was hardly any restrictions. even pubs were open.

Wet pubs in Dublin have been shut since March.

GocRh

JRant wrote: »

The biggest problem right now is that they are far too quick to lockdown and far too slow to lift restrictions.

Localised and graduated restrictions were also completely abandoned. West Cork being treated the same way as Dublin inner city.
No other European country is implementing nationwide lockdowns.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I think whether you are pro restrictions or anti restrictions is starting to become less and less relevant.

We need to get vaccinating and fast. That really should be the top priority.

For so many reasons, we can’t keep going on like this.

Another poster laid out a sensible point that we need an accurate tally of vaccines administered on a daily basis, so the public aren't belittled by non-committal jive like "it's progressing in line with expectations". No qualms trying to scare us with case numbers, high time we were kept in the loop with regard to total vaccines delivered so far. That way the apologists for the HSE cannot bluff their way out if we start to fall further behind schedule and our continental neighbours. If I'm not mistaken, the rollout of the vaccine in the EU is directly proportionate to population. No excuses and no faffing about now, most of us are beyond fatigued.

Kermit.de.frog

I see pressure is growing in the UK for a full on national lockdown that would last until after Easter because hospitals are struggling to cope with the influx. Media full of reports Keir Starmer has demanded Johnson announce the new measures within the next 24 hours.

Here the papers tomorrow focusing heavily on the pressures the hospitals are coming under and the need to see a slow down in admissions.

cheezums

Deleted User wrote: »

Another poster laid out a sensible point that we need an accurate tally of vaccines administered on a daily basis, so the public aren't belittled by non-committal jive like "it's progressing in line with expectations". No qualms trying to scare us with case numbers, high time we were kept in the loop with regard to total vaccines delivered so far. That way the apologists for the HSE cannot bluff their way out if we start to fall further behind schedule and our continental neighbours. If I'm not mistaken, the rollout of the vaccine in the EU is directly proportionate to population. No excuses and no faffing about now, most of us are beyond fatigued.

i think i heard donnelly say they will be doing this.

Kermit.de.frog

froog wrote: »

the decision of the government to open up the country for christmas was a massive mistake. that much is clear.

but the same people who were campaigning hard to open up, are the exact same people now shouting at the government for messing things up. it's ludicrous.

100% correct.

I said it at the start of December. Those who wanted things opened up before Christmas will be the first complaining in January at the inevitable consequences.

Because they don't like admitting they were wrong some will still, even now, come out to tell all and sundry the Christmas dinner was worth the situation now.

(To be fair some have gone silent on it)

It never was. It was deeply irresponsible for the government to send the message to the public that they did in December through their actions.

All spilt milk now as we go about trying to straighten out a self inflicted wound.

growleaves

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

100% correct.

I said it at the start of December. Those who wanted things opened up before Christmas will be the first complaining in January at the inevitable consequences.

Because they don't like admitting they were wrong they will still come out to tell all and sundry the Christmas dinner was worth the situation now.

It never was. It was deeply irresponsible for the government to send the message to the public that they did in December through their actions.

All spilt milk now as we go about trying to straighten out a self inflicted wound.

You were desperate to ban Christmas and stung when you were rebuked by so many people.

The public are increasingly unimpressed and many have twigged that they might as well use their brief windows of freedom to the full between sandwich-lockdowns.

You will be back next year trying to cancel Christmas again on one pretext or another.

You have one trick in your bag of tricks, which is to agitate to close down businesses and force people into isolation then claim it is never safe to come out.

GocRh

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

100% correct.

I said it at the start of December. Those who wanted things opened up before Christmas will be the first complaining in January at the inevitable consequences.

Because they don't like admitting they were wrong some will still, even now, come out to tell all and sundry the Christmas dinner was worth the situation now.

(To be fair some have gone silent on it)

It never was. It was deeply irresponsible for the government to send the message to the public that they did in December through their actions.

All spilt milk now as we go about trying to straighten out a self inflicted wound.

Full reopening while saying that everything was going to be shut in the new year was a very poor communication strategy. People were desperate to make the most of the few weeks we had.

A graduated reopening (limited hours or curfews like done in France, Spain, etc) and localised and quick restrictions (effective test and trace, proper border controls in NI and airports) would have prevented an explosion of cases.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

100% correct.

I said it at the start of December. Those who wanted things opened up before Christmas will be the first complaining in January at the inevitable consequences.

Because they don't like admitting they were wrong some will still, even now, come out to tell all and sundry the Christmas dinner was worth the situation now.

(To be fair some have gone silent on it)

It never was. It was deeply irresponsible for the government to send the message to the public that they did in December through their actions.

All spilt milk now as we go about trying to straighten out a self inflicted wound.

If you live in Dublin, you have been in full lockdown or very heavily restricted for the vast majority of the last 10 months. Most of Ireland is similar.

Our Taoiseach admitted we had the longest and harshest restrictions in Europe.

The whole goal behind lockdown 2 was to allow us to open up a bit for Christmas.

Of course it was worth it to have a few weeks of normality.

Cases will drop very soon and hopefully we don’t make a balls of the vaccine rollout.

Kermit.de.frog

GocRh wrote: »

Full reopening while saying that everything was going to be shut in the new year was a very poor communication strategy. People were desperate to make the most of the few weeks we had.

A graduated reopening (limited hours or curfews like done in France, Spain, etc) and localised and quick restrictions (effective test and trace, proper border controls in NI and airports) would have prevented an explosion of cases.

I agree. It was all very shoddy. Also it's exceptionally rare to see any government say they are taking actions whilst at the same time acknowledging it will drive us in to a crisis a month later.

Ice Albatross

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I agree. It was all very shoddy. Also it's exceptionally rare to see any government say they are taking actions whilst at the same time acknowledging it will drive us in to a crisis a month later.

At least they were honest saying that. If they weren't people would stop listening altogether

Graham

growleaves wrote: »

You were desperate to ban Christmas and stung when you were rebuked by so many people.

Probably not the best time to gloat considering where the country now finds itself.

growleaves

Graham wrote: »

Probably not the best time to gloat considering where the country now finds itself.

I'm not gloating. I'm pointing out an aspect of Kermit's personal motivation. He was teasing people on the Christmas thread with the prospect of years of restrictions. Then multiple people rebuked him for wanting to cancel Christmas. He later complained he had received 'abuse' over the Christmas argument. So its a sore point with him, its not just a matter of 'policy' .

Graham

And as it turns out, tighter restrictions may have been sensible given where we now find ourselves.

Juwwi

growleaves wrote: »

I'm not gloating. I'm pointing out an aspect of Kermit's personal motivation. He was teasing people on the Christmas thread with the prospect of years of restrictions. Then multiple people rebuked him for wanting to cancel Christmas. He later complained he had received 'abuse' over the Christmas argument. So its a sore point with him, its not just a matter of 'policy' .

Was he not right about cancelling this Christmas though ?

I didn't read any of his posts about the prospect of years of restrictions but most of what he has predicted has actually been correct .

bb1234567

Juwwi wrote: »

Was he not right about cancelling this Christmas though ?

I didn't read any of his posts about the prospect of years of restrictions but most of what he has predicted has actually been correct .

Well, no , I wouldn't say they were right. Suggestion of just staying in lockdown indefinitely is an easy way out in terms of keeping COVID down but not inventive or original or what we should have been striving for. It's important other avenues are tested and explored, what happens when another more dangerous pandemic occurs? And what if it takes far longer than a year to find a vaccine? What then, we all just give up 3 years or however long of our life with no quality of life? COVID is a trial run for a worse pandemic in my books, and I don't think other means of coexisting with it at some level were even considered much less properly tried.

It didn't work out in this case, no, sadly, but I don't think there's any need for the blame game. Given how long cases took to resurge in summer it is natural that we were taken off guard by this growth which exceeded all worst case estimates, obviously there is now the theory it is seasonal but it was impossible to know that with a novel virus before a year was even over and whoever claimed that is now just retroactively taking credit for their insight which just so happens to look like it it may be valid.

growleaves

Juwwi wrote: »

Was he not right about cancelling this Christmas though ?

I didn't read any of his posts about the prospect of years of restrictions but most of what he has predicted has actually been correct .

Well I would think that the October-November lockdown naturally funnelled us into a Christmas break.

Although it may not be articulated by the Government or the public, concessions to morale and psychological health ARE necessary.

If keeping positive infections low were the *only* consideration then... but I don't believe that.

Graham

Keep things open to keep the economy moving and the population happy while finding the right mix of restrictions to keep as much of the population as possible safe.

It's a crappy balancing act and about the only thing you can guarantee is some people will be unhappy however it's played.

AndrewJRenko

ElektroToad wrote: »

I would've thought the health service is doing fine comparatively speaking?

I mean everyone knows that over last 10 years or so, we would have 400 or 500+ patients at any given time on trolleys in overrun hospitals due during our winter flu season.

This year we've no such trolley crisis. Instead we have couple of dozen in ICU (admitted for whatever reason, mind you!) And yet apparently we are told our health system cannot cope is about to collapse?

Does not compute???

This one's for you.

https://twitter.com/shanercpower/status/1345478745189134336?s=19

Odeta

Know of a family who all contracted COVID when son attended a party before Christmas. Their heating went on Christmas Day and they can’t get it fixed as they are all isolating. I’ve little sympathy for the lad but his poor parents and siblings

FintanMcluskey

Graham wrote: »

Probably not the best time to gloat considering where the country now finds itself.

Reading posts like this really puzzles me.

The situation the country finds itself in??

It’s not the 1st week of the Somme

JRant

Graham wrote: »

Keep things open to keep the economy moving and the population happy while finding the right mix of restrictions to keep as much of the population as possible safe.

It's a crappy balancing act and about the only thing you can guarantee is some people will be unhappy however it's played.

It is absolutely an awful balancing act but what should not have happened is the constant narrative that the government were wrong to open things up a little before Christmas. The media, opposition parties and social media are full of captain hindsights. If it's a case of them get slaughtered every time they open things up then they will just stay in level 5 for months on end as it's the easy thing for them to do.

To date they've tried very limiting restrictions and when they've tried other avenues, like regional lockdowns they were hounded by the media etc.

The head of the ICU members union was on the radio this morning and he stated that our ICU has no redundancy built in by design and the current numbers are in line with what they would typically see. The presenter was then probing about hypotheticals, what if that number doubles etc, well there may be issues then but it hasn't happened yet and the constant pushing of the fear narrative is grossly irresponsible. We are managing the current situation, which is a great thing, let's not invent worse case scenarios that haven't happened yet. It's yet another example of the media inserting themselves into a story to get a headline they can use to scare the bejayus out of people.

FintanMcluskey

Odeta wrote: »

Know of a family who all contracted COVID when son attended a party before Christmas. Their heating went on Christmas Day and they can’t get it fixed as they are all isolating. I’ve little sympathy for the lad but his poor parents and siblings

Good lord.

Society will break down before this is over.

The most basic requirement for survival of the species has been made a morally criminal penalty by kangaroo courts of online vigilantes

JRant

Odeta wrote: »

Know of a family who all contracted COVID when son attended a party before Christmas. Their heating went on Christmas Day and they can’t get it fixed as they are all isolating. I’ve little sympathy for the lad but his poor parents and siblings

Why would you have little sympathy for him?
Young people doing what young people have always done is not some reason to leave your empathy at the door.