Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

sprucemoose

Ace2007 wrote: »

But we don't ALL have our masks on, not everyone is obeying to that law. That's the problem, and there are a large % of people that think wearing a mask around your mouth is the problem solved.

How many places still have staff washing hands every 20 mins?

and there are a number of people who genuinely can't wear them unfortunately but the better the rest of us comply then that risk is negated

_Kaiser_

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You might want to read up on the difference between coincidence and causation.

OK.. how then do you explain the increased cases post August despite almost universal mask usage?

Maybe this is just a seasonal illness like other viruses of the same general type? See my post this morning on the "full circle" state we're now finding ourselves in.

sprucemoose

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

OK.. how then do you explain the increased cases post August despite almost universal mask usage?

Maybe this is just a seasonal illness like other viruses of the same general type? See my post this morning on the "full circle" state we're now finding ourselves in.

massive relaxing of restrictions combined with ridiculous numbers of people incorrectly using masks for a start

Ace2007

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

OK.. how then do you explain the increased cases post August despite almost universal mask usage?

Maybe this is just a seasonal illness like other viruses of the same general type? See my post this morning on the "full circle" state we're now finding ourselves in.

Would love to see your definition of universal mask usage, as i for know 10+ families over xmas who visit each other homes (on the basis they believe that the 1/3 household was per 24 hours - mind boggling to have that logic in a pandemic), but they never worse masks inside - as they "sure i don't have it".

There are a lot of people who think they are following the rules, but if you were to put a camera on them 24/7 - you would soon see they are doing less than half of what they are supposed to for instance.

You walk into any supermarket in the country and i guarantee you that there will be staff half wearing a mask, or staff too busy to wash their hands reguarly.

FintanMcluskey

Deleted User wrote: »

Surely you mean 2020?

And assuming you did, it is likely it was here in January, in low numbers

So for about 6 weeks the highly transmissible virus was circulating with absolutely no mitigation measures but only did so in “low numbers” until the 1st cases were detected here?

JRant

With the likely closing of schools coming up will the government make the difficult decision to put all teachers on PUP. There may be a case for secondary school teachers remaining employed but there is absolutely nothing to justify it with primary teachers. Some difficult decisions to be made but the unions are probably correct in wanting schools closed for a period of time.

AndrewJRenko

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

OK.. how then do you explain the increased cases post August despite almost universal mask usage?

Maybe this is just a seasonal illness like other viruses of the same general type? See my post this morning on the "full circle" state we're now finding ourselves in.

1) We're dealing with a highly infectious virus, so small numbers lead to large numbers fairly quickly as infection spreads.
2) 'Consumer' masks are imperfect - not being worn properly, not being washed properly, not being stored properly.
3) We're a long, long way from universal mask usage.

Solar2021

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

So for about 6 weeks the highly transmissible virus was circulating with absolutely no mitigation measures but only did so in “low numbers” until the 1st cases were detected here?

Yes that's very unlikey

With an Ro of 6 in the wild ( confirmed by the Chinese )

It would have doubled everyday 2 day's

They believe Wuhan went from patient zero in October/Nov to 1,000,000 cases in 60 day - 90 day's

When this thing takes off, it takes some stopping

It was everywhere in Q1 2020 here, everywhere

Ace2007

JRant wrote: »

With the likely closing of schools coming up will the government make the difficult decision to put all teachers on PUP. There may be a case for secondary school teachers remaining employed but there is absolutely nothing to justify it with primary teachers. Some difficult decisions to be made but the unions are probably correct in wanting schools closed for a period of time.

Did teachers get full salary in the last lockdown? Pup would be only 350 a week - unions would never allow that regardless of a pandemic or not.

AndrewJRenko

JRant wrote: »

With the likely closing of schools coming up will the government make the difficult decision to put all teachers on PUP. There may be a case for secondary school teachers remaining employed but there is absolutely nothing to justify it with primary teachers. Some difficult decisions to be made but the unions are probably correct in wanting schools closed for a period of time.

'absolutely nothing to justify primary teachers remaining employed' apart from the fact that they will still be working remotely?

FintanMcluskey

Ace2007 wrote: »

You walk into any supermarket in the country and i guarantee you that there will be staff half wearing a mask, or staff too busy to wash their hands reguarly.

Which of course has caused numerous staff to become sick due to the disease because the high and varied number of contacts each day.

I can assume the clusters related to supermarkets are numerous judging by your anecdotal evidence?

JRant

Ace2007 wrote: »

Did teachers get full salary in the last lockdown? Pup would be only 350 a week - unions would never allow that regardless of a pandemic or not.

They sure did.

Boggles

JRant wrote: »

With the likely closing of schools coming up will the government make the difficult decision to put all teachers on PUP. There may be a case for secondary school teachers remaining employed but there is absolutely nothing to justify it with primary teachers. Some difficult decisions to be made but the unions are probably correct in wanting schools closed for a period of time.

Are you on the PUP yourself?

Ace2007

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Which of course has caused numerous staff to become sick due to the disease because the high and varied number of contacts each day.

I can assume the clusters related to supermarkets are numerous judging by your anecdotal evidence?

What are you talking about? Where did i say there was clusters in supermarkets?

I responded to a poster who said there was universal wearing of masks - which there isn't and there are very few wearing them correctly as you can see if you go into any supermarket - and i use a supermarket as it employees large amounts of staff of different age groups and demographics. You will see some wearing them correctly - the staff that care, and others wearing them incorreclty - the staff wearing them only because they have to and not because they want to.

Ace2007

JRant wrote: »

They sure did.

Imagine the outrage of unions, we want schools close but we want full pay - having their cake and eating it comes to mind.

But it's the PS what do we expect eh?

JRant

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

'absolutely nothing to justify primary teachers remaining employed' apart from the fact that they will still be working remotely?

Will they?
From March to June it was home schooling for most primary pupils. There's no standardised online method for teaching them and let me assure you sending out a weekly email with coursework is not working remotely.

Hard times call for hard measures. We are all in this together don't forget.

JRant

Boggles wrote: »

Are you on the PUP yourself?

What has that got to do with it?

Boggles

JRant wrote: »

What has that got to do with it?

You are calling for 10s of 1000s of workers to be penalized financially through no fault of their own whilst at the same time pontificating about solidarity and all been in it together.

So I suggest why don't you lead from the front, if you are gainfully employed, keep 350 a week of your salary and donate the rest to a charity, maybe a mental health one.

What do you think?

JRant wrote: »

Will they?
Hard times call for hard measures. We are all in this together don't forget.

Ace2007

Boggles wrote: »

You are calling for 10s of 1000s of workers to be penalized financially through no fault of their own whilst at the same time pontificating about solidarity and all been in it together.

So I suggest why don't you lead from the front, if you are gainfully employed, keep 350 a week of your salary and donate the rest to a charity, maybe a mental health one.

What do you think?

That are thousands up thousands of private sector workers who have lost their jobs, or are on the pup payments, some of these private business may not even open when covid goes. Why should PS workers get full pay, when private workers don't.

Its' the teachers unions that are pushing for the schools to be closed after all...
Do you think maybe the unions should suggest that schools should shut now for next two months, and that they will work through their summer holidays - at the very least that would show solidarity as you put it.

_Kaiser_

Boggles wrote: »

You are calling for 10s of 1000s of workers to be penalized financially through no fault of their own whilst at the same time pontificating about solidarity and all been in it together.

So I suggest why don't you lead from the front, if you are gainfully employed, keep 350 a week of your salary and donate the rest to a charity, maybe a mental health one.

What do you think?

I'm confused..

One of the key arguments against the more restrictive measures is the impact it has on employment and income.

Have you changed your mind Boggles?

JRant

Boggles wrote: »

You are calling for 10s of 1000s of workers to be penalized financially through no fault of their own whilst at the same time pontificating about solidarity and all been in it together.

So I suggest why don't you lead from the front, if you are gainfully employed, keep 350 a week of your salary and donate the rest to a charity, maybe a mental health one.

What do you think?

Hey, I don't make the rules. You're a big advocate of shutting all sort of businesses down with these restrictions/lockdowns. I'm just following the same logic as yourself and others.

It's not their fault but if the unions are concenr ed about safety and others claiming schools are a problem then the only logical step is to use PUP, the same as every other business that has to close it's doors over the next number of months.

I'll look after my own but thanks for the suggestions. Good to know you're so concerned and I presume is something you are already doing.

Boggles

Ace2007 wrote: »

That are thousands up thousands of private sector workers who have lost their jobs, or are on the pup payments, some of these private business may not even open when covid goes. Why should PS workers get full pay, when private workers don't.

Its' the teachers unions that are pushing for the schools to be closed after all...
Do you think maybe the unions should suggest that schools should shut now for next two months, and that they will work through their summer holidays - at the very least that would show solidarity as you put it.

It's up to the Department of Education to decide policy.

This third wave was pretty much telegraphed, it's up to them now to publish their Plan B, they pretended they had since September.

Boggles

JRant wrote: »

You're a big advocate of shutting all sort of businesses down with these restrictions/lockdowns.

:pac:

I'll need to see some citation for this claim?

In your own good time.

Boggles

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'm confused..

One of the key arguments against the more restrictive measures is the impact it has on employment and income.

Have you changed your mind Boggles?

You certainly seem to be....

I have literally no idea what you are talking about.

Ace2007

Boggles wrote: »

It's up to the Department of Education to decide policy.

This third wave was pretty much telegraphed, it's up to them now to publish their Plan B, they pretended they had since September.

do you honestly think it's up to the Department, every man and their dog on the streets knows that the unions run the PS.

DOE come out and announce all teachers are put on pup while off - they schools will be shut until September as teachers will go on strike at first chance they get post covid to demand their salaries back.

DOE comes out and says ok we'll shut schools for 2 months, but teachers need to work through the summer. The unions will come out and look for more money for this to happy.

Unions if they wanted to can suggest either of those options - but do you really think they would? It's the PS after all.

JRant

Boggles wrote: »

:pac:

I'll need to see some citation for this claim?

In your own good time.

Nah, you've been clear for a long time where you stand on restrictions and lockdowns. Search your own posting history if you want, I certainly won't be doing it for you.

Boggles

Ace2007 wrote: »

do you honestly think it's up to the Department,

To run education and have a plan B in place?

Ah yeah, that's not really my opinion TBF.

It's a fact.

Boggles

JRant wrote: »

Nah, you've been clear for a long time where you stand on restrictions and lockdowns. Search your own posting history if you want, I certainly won't be doing it for you.

So you can't back up your accusation against me?

Would you be as good as to retract it so please.

_Kaiser_

Boggles wrote: »

You certainly seem to be....

I literally no idea what you are talking about.

It's simple.

Lot's of private sector workers have lost their jobs or been forced onto PUP through no fault of their own as as result of the restrictions and the impacts (closures) it's had on their employers.

From reading your posts above though, you don't feel the same rules should apply to teachers if schools are similarly closed?

Seems a bit unfair - to put it mildly - no?

Ace2007

Boggles wrote: »

To run education and have a plan B in place?

Ah yeah, that's not really my opinion TBF.

It's a fact.

I see you are very selective in your reply - you chose to ignore the body of my email that shows you the issues that the DOE face when they try to do anything.

Why had the unions who are so vocal not once come out and offered the teachers to work the summer months, for the good our of children, the good of our health and to get over this pandemic.