Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

the kelt

Ace2007 wrote: »

Is it the fault of anyone in the private sector who lost their job or is stuck on pup either? Why is it fair that they suffer financially but teachers and any other PS workers that find themselves unable to work get full pay and pension accrual.

People just want as much equality as possible. Once we get over Covid, and the next election - there will be more taxes to pay back all the money borrowed, why is it fair that private sector works pay the same level as tax as PS who didn't suffer any of the cuts?

That's the argument plain and simple. Why don't the government just pay the private sector workers their full wage instead of the pup?

So literally if more people were out on PUP causing more hardship for more people you would be happier?

facehugger99

Ace2007 wrote: »

Is it the fault of anyone in the private sector who lost their job or is stuck on pup either? Why is it fair that they suffer financially but teachers and any other PS workers that find themselves unable to work get full pay and pension accrual.

We're all in this together.

Penfailed

SusieBlue wrote: »

Why didn’t they increase ICU beds/capacity and hire even a small portion of the thousands of healthcare workers they begged to come home from abroad to do their duty, only to leave them hanging with no jobs?

Why don’t they do a better job of controlling the endless outbreaks inside hospitals, nursing homes, and direct provisions centres?
Note I said better, I don’t expect perfection and zero cases/deaths would be an impossibly high standard but the numbers coming out of these facilities since day 1 are inexcusable.
Why didn’t they do literally anything to ease the pressure on the health system, bar shutting down the country?

Level 5 lockdown is the nuclear option.
It was a sensible and warranted course of action back in March when the virus was brand new, we had no contingency plans, no time to prepare, and the public weren’t educated on social distancing, masks and hand washing.
It should not be the go-to option almost 12 months later any time the cases rise. By now there absolutely should be a few other steps taken before going nuclear and shutting down the country 3 times over the course of 10 months.

MM was smug as hell gloating about how we’ve had the longest, strictest, and most drawn out response to the virus in Europe, as if it’s something we should take pride in.
But it clearly backfired because people got so sick of the fear mongering and Tony’s worry-meter that we are now in exactly the same position as every other country in Europe, most of whom haven’t lived under the weight of the strictest conditions in the EU since last March.

When asked what your alternative was, you didn't answer. You listed things they did wrong in the beginning along with everywhere else. You then say there should be a few other steps taken with no substance as to what those steps are. Then you have a go at MM and TH. To sum up - not answering the actual question, have a go at the usual suspects, loads of thanks for your post. Pretty standard for this thread.

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

this is beginning to feel worryingly like March 2020 ...................and people seem very willing to buy into the entire lockdown all over again, except this time it seems to be "let's throw away the keys", people aren't even allowed question this anymore! A relative of mine committed suicide on New Years Eve - a single man in his mid forties, very isolated , never married, no kids. I think we are paying a huge price for this.

Sadly, the period around Christmas and the New Year are always really bad for suicide rates.

Ace2007

facehugger99 wrote: »

We're all in this together.

But some people get full pay when out of a job, while others get the pup....

uli84

Not having high hopes but wished they fooked off the Primary schools as they were meant to remain open at level5, my kid only finished previous class material before xmas

AndrewJRenko

Ace2007 wrote: »

Imagine the outrage of unions, we want schools close but we want full pay - having their cake and eating it comes to mind.

But it's the PS what do we expect eh?

Have you heard about remote learning at all?

JRant wrote: »

Will they?
From March to June it was home schooling for most primary pupils. There's no standardised online method for teaching them and let me assure you sending out a weekly email with coursework is not working remotely.

Hard times call for hard measures. We are all in this together don't forget.

You're right, there is no standardised online method for remote learning for primary schools. Many secondary schools have done their own thing in providing VLEs but there has been little demand for that in primary schools.

To put together a standardised online method across the very broad primary school curriculum covering students with a broad range of abilities and disabilities would be a huge project, requiring significant investment of people and IT resources to set this up. Have you any thoughts on funding this project?

Ace2007 wrote: »

That are thousands up thousands of private sector workers who have lost their jobs, or are on the pup payments, some of these private business may not even open when covid goes. Why should PS workers get full pay, when private workers don't.

Because teachers, in this case, are still working.

Ace2007 wrote: »

Of course, the unions simply do what they are told - we never have any PS Strikes at all?

Good question - do we have any public sector strikes? I recall a token one-day strike around 2009 or 2010, but I'm struggling to recall any others. Have we had other public sector strikes over the past decade?

Ace2007 wrote: »

Is it the fault of anyone in the private sector who lost their job or is stuck on pup either? Why is it fair that they suffer financially but teachers and any other PS workers that find themselves unable to work get full pay and pension accrual.

People just want as much equality as possible. Once we get over Covid, and the next election - there will be more taxes to pay back all the money borrowed, why is it fair that private sector works pay the same level as tax as PS who didn't suffer any of the cuts?

That's the argument plain and simple. Why don't the government just pay the private sector workers their full wage instead of the pup?

When you say 'didn't suffer any of the cuts', have you forgotten about the PRD?
Presumably in your search for equality, you will be in favour of the immediate removal of the 'Pension Related Deduction' tax imposed on public servants during the last austerity programme - the 6%-8% cut on gross salary imposed without any consultation and no sign of it being removed?

AndrewJRenko

Ace2007 wrote: »

But some people get full pay when out of a job, while others get the pup....

Teachers were never 'out of a job'.

Penfailed

SusieBlue wrote: »

Spending nearly 7 months of the year in lockdown to still have this many cases & outbreaks is outrageous when you think about it.

It would be outrageous if it actually happened. We weren't locked down for nearly seven months of the year.

Captain_Crash

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Your correct, it was 27 December, but the person doesn't know where they got it. The patient suspects his spouse, who worked near CDG but not at the airport. The below article suggests is was in France as early as Nov '19.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52526554



True, and I cant find any evidence of old flu swabs being retested here so we'll never know for sure. But with the amount of travel around Europe during the festive season, its highly likely that it was here prior to Jan 2020. Especially considering the "bad dose" that was rampant around xmas that year. This is what we call in law, "the balance of probabilities".

The "bad dose" around Xmas 2020 was not covid. The NVRL conducts sentinel testing on viral swabs submitted and would have these on record. Unidentified swabs would have been checked. This type of testing is conducted in viral labs all over Europe. The Lab in Wuhan that identified the new virus, is not the only lab capable of doing this type of work, and if it was rampant in Europe it would have been identified in Europe. The balance of probabilities is not with you on this one

ShyMets

ShyMets wrote: »

Well I see the main Covid thread is a cornucopia of joy today.

Somewhat glad some of the posters on there aren't running the country. We literally wouldn't be leaving our houses for the next three months

Is there? Or is this just the restrictions thread version of curtain twitching?

"X on the main covid thread said there should be more restrictions . They just love it dont they"

Captain_Crash

Deleted User wrote: »

The "bad dose" around Xmas 2020 was not covid. The NVRL conducts sentinel testing on viral swabs submitted and would have these on record. Unidentified swabs would have been checked. This type of testing is conducted in viral labs all over Europe. The Lab in Wuhan that identified the new virus, is not the only lab capable of doing this type of work, and if it was rampant in Europe it would have been identified in Europe. The balance of probabilities is not with you on this one

If you say so. Must have just been a coincidence that there as a novel virus here in the weeks before covid hit with the same symptoms and after effects, when the Miley Virus was confirmed to have been in France at the time.

Leo and Co fell for it also, what are the chances: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/coronavirus-may-have-been-in-ireland-last-year-taoiseach-says-1.4247423

Fact is we'll never know for sure, you like many others think it wasn't here at the time and many including those in government believe different. Even his Royal Highness the CMO acknowledged it was likely here.

Ace2007

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Have you heard about remote learning at all?


You're right, there is no standardised online method for remote learning for primary schools. Many secondary schools have done their own thing in providing VLEs but there has been little demand for that in primary schools.

To put together a standardised online method across the very broad primary school curriculum covering students with a broad range of abilities and disabilities would be a huge project, requiring significant investment of people and IT resources to set this up. Have you any thoughts on funding this project?


Because teachers, in this case, are still working.


Good question - do we have any public sector strikes? I recall a token one-day strike around 2009 or 2010, but I'm struggling to recall any others. Have we had other public sector strikes over the past decade?


When you say 'didn't suffer any of the cuts', have you forgotten about the PRD?
Presumably in your search for equality, you will be in favour of the immediate removal of the 'Pension Related Deduction' tax imposed on public servants during the last austerity programme - the 6%-8% cut on gross salary imposed without any consultation and no sign of it being removed?

Go back and look at the threads on here last year, there were hundreds if no thousands of posters saying that their kids were not getting taught - teacher would send something every Monday and that was it. Yes some teachers did stuff every day but large % didn't.

While they aren't out of a job- they aren't working and doing what they are getting paid to do. like someone on the pup - they want to work, but the government shut down their industry so that they have no option - in theory they aren't out of job either - but still only get the pup.

I have worked in the PS, i know what he PRD is and i know how expensive pensions schemes are to run - so i was happy enough to pay the %. Any pension expert in the private sector would be more than happy to take a 10% hit to their salary for the pension benefits under the PS structure. PS pensions are costing the state a fortune and are not sustainable but no government wants to tackle that issue - kick it down the road.

If someone in the PS isn't happy with their salary or their benefits - they can always move jobs....

Captain_Crash

Captain_Crash wrote: »

If you say so. Must have just been a coincidence that there as a novel virus here in the weeks before covid hit with the same symptoms and after effects, when the Miley Virus was confirmed to have been in France at the time.

Leo and Co fell for it also, what are the chances: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/coronavirus-may-have-been-in-ireland-last-year-taoiseach-says-1.4247423

Fact is we'll never know for sure, you like many others think it wasn't here at the time and many including those in government believe different. Even his Royal Highness the CMO acknowledged it was likely here.

Possible there was a few cases does not equal rampant. All these viral labs all over Europe must be useless given they failed to identify a virus that was "rampant" in December 2019 by all accounts on Boards.ie

Captain_Crash

Deleted User wrote: »

Possible there was a few cases does not equal rampant. All these viral labs all over Europe must be useless given they failed to identify a virus that was "rampant" in December 2019 by all accounts on Boards.ie

Atlest we agree the 'rona was here in December 2019 eh

Boggles

The focus is shifting to protecting urgent and critical care.

20% positive rate over 7 days.

Game over.

CruelSummer

Ace2007 wrote: »

Is it the fault of anyone in the private sector who lost their job or is stuck on pup either? Why is it fair that they suffer financially but teachers and any other PS workers that find themselves unable to work get full pay and pension accrual.

People just want as much equality as possible. Once we get over Covid, and the next election - there will be more taxes to pay back all the money borrowed, why is it fair that private sector works pay the same level as tax as PS who didn't suffer any of the cuts?

That's the argument plain and simple. Why don't the government just pay the private sector workers their full wage instead of the pup?

Who said anything about asking for full pay if schools are closed? If teachers are out of a job, and doing nothing for the next few weeks as I said, they should sit back, head onto boards and take their PUP like everyone else.
Are you suggesting teachers should work while receiving PUP? How is that equitable to the private sector where they are free to do as they please while 'off work' receiving PUP? Meanwhile many of those in the private sector get full pay for 'working from home' and spend the day posting on here.

johnnyskeleton

Captain_Crash wrote: »

True, and I cant find any evidence of old flu swabs being retested here so we'll never know for sure. But with the amount of travel around Europe during the festive season, its highly likely that it was here prior to Jan 2020. Especially considering the "bad dose" that was rampant around xmas that year. This is what we call in law, "the balance of probabilities".

Its what we call "speculation" in law. The balance of probabilities is how two claims based in evidence are weighed against each other. It doesnt apply where there is an absence of evidence.

PTH2009

Boggles wrote: »

The focus is shifting to protecting urgent and critical care.

20% positive rate over 7 days.

Game over.

Constant moving the goal posts

Easter 2021 will be the very same as Xmas 2020. Sure it will be level 5 in Summer 2021 too

Sick of it

Captain_Crash

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Its what we call "speculation" in law. The balance of probabilities is how two claims based in evidence are weighed against each other. It doesnt apply where there is an absence of evidence.

You know the point I was getting at

GooglePlus

PTH2009 wrote: »

Constant moving the goal posts

Easter 2021 will be the very same as Xmas 2020. Sure it will be level 5 in Summer 2021 too

Sick of it

These pandemics are ****e craic.

cheezums

Deleted User wrote: »

If you live in Dublin, you have been in full lockdown or very heavily restricted for the vast majority of the last 10 months. Most of Ireland is similar.

Our Taoiseach admitted we had the longest and harshest restrictions in Europe.

The whole goal behind lockdown 2 was to allow us to open up a bit for Christmas.

Of course it was worth it to have a few weeks of normality.

Cases will drop very soon and hopefully we don’t make a balls of the vaccine rollout.

you think opening up for christmas was "worth it"? am i reading your post right??

47akak

PTH2009 wrote: »

Constant moving the goal posts

Easter 2021 will be the very same as Xmas 2020. Sure it will be level 5 in Summer 2021 too

Sick of it

Moving the goalposts? You mean adapting to an exponential growth in cases?

Nobody has a monopoly on being "sick of it". Everyone is. It will be level 2/3 if the population can maintain discipline and not do what was done over Xmas 2020, destroying all the good work that went before in a 72 hour period because they can't sit out just one Xmas.

FintanMcluskey

cheezums wrote: »

you think opening up for christmas was "worth it"? am i reading your post right??

Do you think it wasn’t?

cheezums

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Do you think it wasn’t?

um.. have you seen the news the last few days? the hospitals are about to collapse. many more people will die.

Ginger n Lemon

cheezums wrote: »

um.. have you seen the news the last few days? the hospitals are about to collapse. many more people will die.

Ive been reading that on this thread since May.

why havent they collapsed in March? Or April? or October?

Exactly, because we went into a lockdown and ensured they stay empty. In fact 3 hospitals never even had any patients in March > June period


Covid-19: Three private hospitals took no patients

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-three-private-hospitals-took-no-patients-1.4253584



You need to calm down on hysteria. Akin to Brazil mass graves nonsense.... as my good friend Boggles keeps posting,

cheezums

i don't quite know how to respond here. you don't think there's a problem at all? go crazy and let lockdowns take care of everything? that is absolutely staggering.

froog

cheezums wrote: »

i don't quite know how to respond here. you don't think there's a problem at all? go crazy and let lockdowns take care of everything? that is absolutely staggering.

welcome to the restrictions thread. welcome to hell.

froog

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Ive been reading that on this thread since May.

why havent they collapsed in March? Or April? or October?

Exactly, because we went into a lockdown and ensured they stay empty. In fact 3 hospitals never even had any patients in March > June period


Covid-19: Three private hospitals took no patients

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-three-private-hospitals-took-no-patients-1.4253584


You need to calm down on hysteria. Akin to Brazil mass graves nonsense.... as my good friend Boggles keeps posting,

i think you're in for a bit of shock in the coming days.

FintanMcluskey

froog wrote: »

welcome to the restrictions thread. welcome to hell.

If it’s hell why are you here?