Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

jams100

So when all the nursing homes, medically vulnerable and hospital workers are vaccinated we should be retuning to normal right?

Because it seems the goalposts are constantly changing and there is talk of restrictions continuing.

I'm f**king sick of it all, once they are vaccinated we should be getting on with life, if people are still scared then stay at home. I want to get on with a pretty normal life at that stage (April-ish). Others feels the same?

patnor1011

froog wrote: »

his entire point is that there is no statistically significant death spike this winter in most countries, unlike the march spike.

i mean, isn't that because we weren't ready for the first spike, and now we are, and are preemptively locking down? i.e. we are successfully dealing with the winter wave.

No. His point is rather that there is no real difference between countries with the most draconian lockdowns and countries with a relaxed approach.
Please what "winter wave" are you talking about? The one where Tony said that even people with flu symptoms should consider themselves covid positive?

acequion

GazzaL wrote: »

The people who can work from home, plus the teachers, public servants and self-serving politicians who will be on full pay whether there's work or not will be fine, if not better off. Everyone else is getting ****ed though.

Ah come off it will you with that jaded old public versus private debate and the notion that all public servants live the life of riley. It's such utter horseshyte and so insulting to the thousands of modestly and low paid public servants to lump them in with politicians and those civil servants on huge pay. Including many of the frontline workers who've borne the brunt of this crisis.

If this results in a return to austerity rest assured that public servants will once again be subjected to savage pay cuts and deterioration in working conditions along with the tax hikes , stealth costs and service cuts imposed on everyone.

Middle and low paid workers, both public and private will shoulder the bulk of the burden. Again. And the rich, both public and private, will escape the worst of it. Again.

This whole thing is bad enough and causing enough misery and worry without resorting to cheap digs and divisive remarks. :mad:

Penfailed

Parabellum9 wrote: »

I’ve had 2 grandparents go to nursing homes and both died within 2 years so your decade talk is bull**** nonsense. Stop playing your violin and face facts

So...not dead within 3 months then? So your OP was bullshít nonsense?

patnor1011

acequion wrote: »

Ah come off it will you with that jaded old public versus private debate and the notion that all public servants live the life of riley. It's such utter horseshyte and so insulting to the thousands of modestly and low paid public servants to lump them in with politicians and those civil servants on huge pay. Including many of the frontline workers who've borne the brunt of this crisis.

If this results in a return to austerity rest assured that public servants will once again be subjected to savage pay cuts and deterioration in working conditions along with the tax hikes , stealth costs and service cuts imposed on everyone.

Middle and low paid workers, both public and private will shoulder the bulk of the burden. Again. And the rich, both public and private, will escape the worst of it. Again.

This whole thing is bad enough and causing enough misery and worry without resorting to cheap digs and divisive remarks. :mad:

Does not seems divisive remark. He mentioned people who can work from home plus public servants. He did not entirely focus on the public sector.
It is a fact that people able to work from home or people on pup whose pay was not higher than what they are getting now sitting at home doing nothing are in favor of lockdown. Why on earth would they want it to end?

froog

patnor1011 wrote: »

No. His point is rather that there is no real difference between countries with the most draconian lockdowns and countries with a relaxed approach.
Please what "winter wave" are you talking about? The one where Tony said that even people with flu symptoms should consider themselves covid positive?

this one.

jams100

jams100 wrote: »

So when all the nursing homes, medically vulnerable and hospital workers are vaccinated we should be retuning to normal right?

Because it seems the goalposts are constantly changing and there is talk of restrictions continuing.

I'm f**king sick of it all, once they are vaccinated we should be getting on with life, if people are still scared then stay at home. I want to get on with a pretty normal life at that stage (April-ish). Others feels the same?

You would assume so, but this is Ireland.

We will likely make a mess of the vaccine rollout and we’ll likely be super conservative and want 0 deaths and near 0 in hospital before normality can return.

I would almost say write off 2021.

Neddyusa

Deleted User wrote: »

You would assume so, but this is Ireland.

We will likely make a mess of the vaccine rollout and we’ll likely be super conservative and want 0 deaths and near 0 in hospital before normality can return.

I would almost say write off 2021.

Why stop at 21? Do you think 2022 or 23 will be any different?
10 months into this nonsense and still no sign of any exit strategy rather than rolling lockdowns in perpetuity.

patnor1011

froog wrote: »

this one.

Sure.
A very small price to pay considering similar graphs which happens to show a sharp decline in cancer deaths, heart, stroke, COPD, lower respiratory, Alzheimer, flu, and diabetes deaths since nearly everything now is covid death.

acequion

patnor1011 wrote: »

Does not seems divisive remark. He mentioned people who can work from home plus public servants. He did not entirely focus on the public sector.
It is a fact that people able to work from home or people on pup whose pay was not higher than what they are getting now sitting at home doing nothing are in favor of lockdown. Why on earth would they want it to end?

The remark was divisive. I fully sympathise with the frustration of those whose livelihoods have been constantly messed with and the despair of those who have lost their jobs. And I've been very vocal here in my opposition to the constant blanket lockdowns and the blithe attitude of the very well paid in Media and Govt/NPHET.

But let's not assume that just because people's livelihoods haven't been affected, that they aren't also suffering these horrendous times in different ways. And wishing financial misery on others is neither humane nor a solution.

patnor1011

Dr Tony Holohan has stressed that if people have flu-like symptoms, they should accept it is COVID-19 and self-isolate.

The Chief Medical Officer (CMO) said that due to COVID-19’s high rate of transmission across the community, any symptoms are unlikely to be anything else but the virus.

‘If you have flu-like symptoms now, you might as well accept this is COVID, the positivity rate in the community is approaching 25%,’ Dr Holohan said.

‘If you have these symptoms, it’s unlikely to be anything else other than COVID.’

He continued: ‘So if you have those symptoms, or if you’re waiting for a test or been referred by your GP or if you’re waiting for results of the test, you must self-isolate.


This must be a joke. Some people here screaming for months that "this is not a flu" throwing insults on anyone who dared to even mention flu in one sentence with covid. Yeah conspiracy theory my ar4e.
Everything is covid now, any symptoms and what is even funnier - if you do not have symptoms at all you must be an evil asymptomatic carrier.
This would be so funny if it was not tragic. To see how easy people lost common sense and last bits of rational thinking so fast.

Heckler

Reading the last 7 or 8 pages of this thread is really telling. People getting obviously upset and angry over differing opinions.

This thing is trying on everybody. Everybodys circumstances are different.

Its hard for us all. Sure, harder maybe for some. C'mon take a breath.

jams100

Deleted User wrote: »

You would assume so, but this is Ireland.

We will likely make a mess of the vaccine rollout and we’ll likely be super conservative and want 0 deaths and near 0 in hospital before normality can return.

I would almost say write off 2021.

Personally I don't care after the nursing homes, medically vulnerable and hospital staff are vaccinated. I want to actually live my life.

Fair enough to continue the face masks and not opening up the likes of nightclubs for another few months after that but I'm not putting up with not being able to see friends and family after the above have been vaccinated.

NPHET should be disbanded after these categories have been reached, their constant negativity is oppressive. I get the feeling that some who support all of these lockdowns are the same people receiving the covid payment and are happy enough to continue to so, obviously there are plenty of people who are genuinely concerned. Also, the people making these decisions will never lose a cent in pay, whilst they are trying to do what they think is right they are living in a different universe to some.

I F**king hate the below headlines. Are they trying to piss people off? they've just locked people into their homes and this is what they talk about. Maybe rather than talking sh**e about next winters restrictions they instead focus on increasing the vaccine production.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-some-covid-restrictions-could-return-next-winter-chief-medical-officer-warns-12180133

Final point, the media contribute to this anxiety, rather than putting out a non attention grabbing headline they'll always go for the "shocking" "extremely worried" headlines and pick out the worst quote from a 30 minute press briefing to make the situation sound worse than it sometimes is.
Anyway, that's my rant

CCP24

Do you think TH will blame the usual flu deaths expected this time of year as per every other year past , and put them down as covid deaths now? Because we are to assume and treat all and any symptoms are covid not flu ?

CCP24

CCP24 wrote: »

Do you think TH will blame the usual flu deaths expected this time of year as per every other year past , and put them down as covid deaths now? Because we are to assume and treat all and any symptoms are covid not flu ?

There is no such thing as flu anymore apparently.

47akak

patnor1011 wrote: »

Dr Tony Holohan has stressed that if people have flu-like symptoms, they should accept it is COVID-19 and self-isolate.

The Chief Medical Officer (CMO) said that due to COVID-19’s high rate of transmission across the community, any symptoms are unlikely to be anything else but the virus.

‘If you have flu-like symptoms now, you might as well accept this is COVID, the positivity rate in the community is approaching 25%,’ Dr Holohan said.

‘If you have these symptoms, it’s unlikely to be anything else other than COVID.’

He continued: ‘So if you have those symptoms, or if you’re waiting for a test or been referred by your GP or if you’re waiting for results of the test, you must self-isolate.


This must be a joke. Some people here screaming for months that "this is not a flu" throwing insults on anyone who dared to even mention flu in one sentence with covid. Yeah conspiracy theory my ar4e.
Everything is covid now, any symptoms and what is even funnier - if you do not have symptoms at all you must be an evil asymptomatic carrier.
This would be so funny if it was not tragic. To see how easy people lost common sense and last bits of rational thinking so fast.

If everyone assumes it's Covid and isolates Covid will go away even if a majority of times it isn't Covid. It will be Covid enough times to make a big difference to R. If the usual suspects prefer to assume it's not and don't refusing to listen to common sense advice from Tony Holohan it will continue to spread rapidly in the absence of the lockdown. And surely to God the efficacy of lockdowns is now beyond debate, given what happened over Xmas. Now certain to shoot past the Springs hospitalisation peak.

Common sense & rational thinking why not try it. I assume all those mocking Holohan's suggestions will self-diagnose a cold or a flu instead of Covid and continue their normal routine? Head in to work. Visit people. Go to restaurants. Do you see any connection between your mindset and behaviour and the spread of Covid?

Graham

patnor1011 wrote: »

If you have flu-like symptoms now, you might as well accept this is COVID, the positivity rate in the community is approaching 25%,’ Dr Holohan said.

patnor1011 wrote: »

This must be a joke. Some people here screaming for months that "this is not a flu" throwing insults on anyone who dared to even mention flu in one sentence with covid. Yeah conspiracy theory my ar4e.

It's hard to understand your point here patnor1011.

Dr Holohan is not suggesting it's a flu.

If you have flu-like symptoms, it's very likely to be COVID.

What's the confusion?

MOH

Deleted User wrote: »

NPHET said a 6 week lockdown would get cases down to 50 - 100 a day and then start rising again in mid Jan. That’s the advice the government used to sanction the lockdown. NPHET were very wrong of course.

NPHET without Tony did NOT want to move to nationwide level 3. 48 hours later with Tony, they wanted level 5. It’s clear that one man has too much influence.

Inquitus wrote: »

It's also clear he was right!

Actually, it's quite clear he was horribly, horribly wrong.

Numbers had been large stable for nearly a week before level 5, the highest daily total was on Oct 18th, the 5- and 7-day averages were already dropping before they went ahead with level 5 anyway from Oct 22nd.

By the time that had any effect (Nov 1, assuming a 10-day lead time), daily numbers were already down to half of the peak. It's unclear what real extra benefit level 5 actually had.

But people were told that if they stuck it out for 6 weeks of level 5, they could have Christmas. Then they were told as things were opening up that Ireland was the best in Europe. That, in combination with both the natural increase in interaction after the (needless) 6 weeks of level 5, on top of the usual Christmas family gatherings, led us directly to where we are now.

But you won't hear Tony or Reid admit blame for any of that. One is too busy saying anyone with the flu has Covid, and the other is newly obsessed with meaningless positivity rate stats. And in the meantime we all continue to suffer.

CruelSummer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm curious as to whether teachers will be humbled into a temporary paycut like the rest of us denied work...what a startling coincidence, a pig just flew past my window.

Ah yes, it’s somehow always the teacher’s fault.
I have full confidence some on this thread will find a way to pin an Irish Teacher to Wuhan who ate the bat, in the wet market, near the Virology lab...and caused this whole thing.

Karlos77

A man says to his wife i am a bit tired think i have flu symptoms

The women goes yeah manflu symptoms

Sorry you must have Man Covid. ..

Moral of the story if you have Mancovid you'll be grand stop moaning ....

patnor1011

Graham wrote: »

It's hard to understand your point here patnor1011.

Dr Holohan is not suggesting it's a flu.

If you have flu-like symptoms, it's very likely to be COVID.

What's the confusion?

The confusion?
From the start, we were told it's nothing like flu. Even those symptoms for both are different and if someone even suggested covid is like bad flu he was nearly crucified.
What if mainly in this time of the year it is actually the other way around? Perhaps most of the cases we see now are actually flu and not covid. We all know that PCR tests are not what we were told they are.

ceadaoin.

patnor1011 wrote: »

Dr Tony Holohan has stressed that if people have flu-like symptoms, they should accept it is COVID-19 and self-isolate.

The Chief Medical Officer (CMO) said that due to COVID-19’s high rate of transmission across the community, any symptoms are unlikely to be anything else but the virus.

‘If you have flu-like symptoms now, you might as well accept this is COVID, the positivity rate in the community is approaching 25%,’ Dr Holohan said.

‘If you have these symptoms, it’s unlikely to be anything else other than COVID.’

He continued: ‘So if you have those symptoms, or if you’re waiting for a test or been referred by your GP or if you’re waiting for results of the test, you must self-isolate.

The positivity rate among those tested is approaching 25%, not the positivity rate "in the community". The only way to get an idea of that is random testing or blanket testing. Youd think someone like holohan would understand the difference there.

Obviously people getting tested are having symptoms or have had contact with a confirmed case so its not surprising the number would skew high and even then most still dont test positive so how can he say its "unlikely" to be anything else?

patnor1011

Because they need to see this thing rolling. It gained some momentum and it can't be stopped now. Nobody is even thinking about what they say now nevermind question them.
This relentless scaremongering and media fear machine beat us in submission. First, it was talking about sacrifice for short time then about necessity till vaccine and now they even talk about this being new normal. We will be rewarded every couple of months for a week or two of some "relaxation" funny thing though is that these people do not have a clue how businesses operate. They think you can open and close shops at a whim and have other businesses waiting for whoever knows how long.
This is like deja vu for people who lived in socialist countries. Apparatchiks telling everyone what is and what is not allowed, people snitching on neighbors, vague promises about how things get better one day and all of it because of "pandemic" which affect a small minority of the population and even from those affected only tiny fraction may die.

GazzaL

acequion wrote: »

Ah come off it will you with that jaded old public versus private debate and the notion that all public servants live the life of riley. It's such utter horseshyte and so insulting to the thousands of modestly and low paid public servants to lump them in with politicians and those civil servants on huge pay. Including many of the frontline workers who've borne the brunt of this crisis.

If this results in a return to austerity rest assured that public servants will once again be subjected to savage pay cuts and deterioration in working conditions along with the tax hikes , stealth costs and service cuts imposed on everyone.

Middle and low paid workers, both public and private will shoulder the bulk of the burden. Again. And the rich, both public and private, will escape the worst of it. Again.

This whole thing is bad enough and causing enough misery and worry without resorting to cheap digs and divisive remarks. :mad:

I don't want to get into a public vs private sector debate, but having met a few teachers who were grinning ear-to-ear at the thought of being off work for an extended period on full pay, it's hard to have any sympathy for them. Likewise, many of the people shouting loudest to shut everything down are those who will still be working on full pay. We're not all in this together.

patnor1011

Epidemiologist Says Influenza Cases Are Being Counted As COVID-19

Top epidemiologist Knut Wittkowski says that the massive drop in influenza cases can be attributed to the fact that many are being falsely counted as COVID-19 cases.
Wittkowski, former Head of Biostatistics, Epidemiology and Research Design at Rockefeller University, cautioned that, “Influenza has been renamed COVID-19 in large part.”

According to CDC figures, the cumulative positive influenza test rate from late September into the week of December 19th was just 0.2%, compared to 8.7% from a year before.

According to Wittkowski, this is because many flu infections are being incorrectly labeled as coronavirus cases.

“There may be quite a number of influenza cases included in the ‘presumed COVID-19’ category of people who have COVID-19 symptoms (which Influenza symptoms can be mistaken for), but are not tested for SARS RNA,” Wittkowski told Just the News.

Those patients may “also may have some SARS RNA sitting in their nose while being infected with Influenza, in which case the influenza would be ‘confirmed’ to be COVID-19,” he added.

Wittkowski challenges the notion that masks and social distancing have resulted in a drop in flu cases, asserting that flu and COVID-19 viruses are “more similar than people want to acknowledge.”

“People know everybody is wearing masks and distancing, and so people want to come up with things that are good about it,” he said.

In places like California and Pennsylvania where mask wearing is most common, COVID-19 cases have continued to skyrocket.

As Just the News notes, “Data indicate that more than nine out of every 10 Americans in most states are wearing masks in public regularly; those numbers have been above 80% since the early fall. Yet average positive COVID-19 tests have multiplied by nearly seven times since the spring peak.”


And some interesting reading about vaccines:
Suspicions grow that nanoparticles in Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine trigger rare allergic reactions.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/suspicions-grow-nanoparticles-pfizer-s-covid-19-vaccine-trigger-rare-allergic-reactions

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589909020300186?via%3Dihub


Are we really that dumb to pretend some pandemic end of the world is upon us?

patnor1011

patnor1011 wrote: »

Epidemiologist Says Influenza Cases Are Being Counted As COVID-19

Top epidemiologist Knut Wittkowski says that the massive drop in influenza cases can be attributed to the fact that many are being falsely counted as COVID-19 cases.
Wittkowski, former Head of Biostatistics, Epidemiology and Research Design at Rockefeller University, cautioned that, “Influenza has been renamed COVID-19 in large part.”

According to CDC figures, the cumulative positive influenza test rate from late September into the week of December 19th was just 0.2%, compared to 8.7% from a year before.

According to Wittkowski, this is because many flu infections are being incorrectly labeled as coronavirus cases.

“There may be quite a number of influenza cases included in the ‘presumed COVID-19’ category of people who have COVID-19 symptoms (which Influenza symptoms can be mistaken for), but are not tested for SARS RNA,” Wittkowski told Just the News.

Those patients may “also may have some SARS RNA sitting in their nose while being infected with Influenza, in which case the influenza would be ‘confirmed’ to be COVID-19,” he added.

Wittkowski challenges the notion that masks and social distancing have resulted in a drop in flu cases, asserting that flu and COVID-19 viruses are “more similar than people want to acknowledge.”

“People know everybody is wearing masks and distancing, and so people want to come up with things that are good about it,” he said.

In places like California and Pennsylvania where mask wearing is most common, COVID-19 cases have continued to skyrocket.

As Just the News notes, “Data indicate that more than nine out of every 10 Americans in most states are wearing masks in public regularly; those numbers have been above 80% since the early fall. Yet average positive COVID-19 tests have multiplied by nearly seven times since the spring peak.”

I found it very strange that an illness like flu was just completely wiped out over night. Apparently all due to masks and distancing. But those same measures can’t prevent us having thousands of cases of Covid.

It makes perfect sense that flu cases just go down as Covid now. Especially with Tony saying similar.

No doubt we’ll be pointed to the conspiracy theory forum until it’s proven correct though.

patnor1011

Deleted User wrote: »

I found it very strange that an illness like flu was just completely wiped out over night. Apparently all due to masks and distancing. But those same measures can’t prevent us having thousands of cases of Covid.

It makes perfect sense that flu cases just go down as Covid now. Especially with Tony saying similar.

No doubt we’ll be pointed to the conspiracy theory forum until it’s proven correct though.

We were pointed there up until Tony confirmed recently that we were right all along.

GazzaL

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0105/1187800-micheal-martin-interview/

Who knew that the virus could distinguish between social housing and private housing? A truly astounding discovery that in a typical housing construction project where there is a mix of private and social housing, the social housing is safe to work in but the private housing next door isn't! A classist virus.

If you're due to move out of your current accommodation to move into a new-build private house by the end of the month, there are probably some fantastic homeless services out there for you.

Dempo1

Very curious little development, seems government seeking to strengthen and refresh the NPHET team, could he be they are not handling the truth well?

I note one appointment is a professor who very publicly disagreed with Cillian De Guscon"s assertions that the new strain was not the primary cause of this latest surge (contradicting Meehole & Leaky Leo) He used a small sample (which was all that was available) got a figure of 9%, it's now roughly 25% which would suggest he's still right.

The cynic in me thinks Government trying to reign in on the Truth and take control of the narrative, also Curious secretary General of the department of public expenditure and reform being added to NPHET team at the behest of the utterly incompetent Stephen Donnelly, an individual who has actively pushed against any and all restrictions.

Whatever is going on, it's been a shocking performance by government who clearly misjudged the consequences of ignoring NPHET advice and sadly not for the first time. 3 weeks of madness has led to this latest debacle.


https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/government-adds-three-medical-specialists-to-nphet-lineup-39936974.html

patnor1011

GazzaL wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0105/1187800-micheal-martin-interview/

Who knew that the virus could distinguish between social housing and private housing? A truly astounding discovery that in a typical housing construction project where there is a mix of private and social housing, the social housing is safe to work in but the private housing next door isn't! A classist virus.

If you're due to move out of your current accommodation to move into a new-build private house by the end of the month, there are probably some fantastic homeless services out there for you.

Dont worry. It is only till we all get vaccine. *,**,***

* vaccine do not prevent you from getting covid
** even though it was "designed" to help to ease symptoms and severity of infection latest research show it may actually cause the opposite reaction when vaccine can train your immune system to go to overdrive when encountering "wild virus".
*** we are not sure yet about how we will fare with different strains


Pure comedy central.