Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

FintanMcluskey

sprucemoose wrote: »

uncommon absolutely, but as the numbers of cases rise then im guessing the percentage of serious cases will remain in accordance with that, im presuming the health system will not be able to meet these demands. yes, theres a decent chance if you get covid you'll be okay once you don't have underlying health issues, but that doesn't mean there isn't a need for vigilance

No it’s not even a chance you will be ok it’s about 99% guaranteed. In fact there is a decent chance you won’t even know you will have it.

It’s not your fault or others that don’t understand the risks are little different to everyday life.

I seen Ryan Tubridy say he was one of the lucky ones that he survived. Never heard such nonsense.

Hard to believe Sweden had a normal year for deaths!

In fact didn’t everywhere report noting extraordinary for deaths over the course of the year?

Idbatterim

It's going to be hilarious, when the next few budgets have cuts or just no welfare increases for " de vulneable " with free houses, medical card etc.. likely no or very little pay increase for ps, all the unions wanted workplaces shut etc, going to be funny seeing them bitch and moan. We are currently just reducing future living standards, going to be funny when these idiots realise that!

Whiplash85

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Thats the rub of it. And unfortunately social media is very pervasive in influencing govt policy. If more people want curfews well then give them what they want. It is astounding what people have succumbed to in the last 9 months. This is also driven by RTE who effectively were calling for construction to shut up shop and question how sites can work risk free. They will be the first to do RTE investigate programmes about private landlords exploiting people by putting 10 people in 1 room or bemoan the level of homelessness etc. A classic in the genre of hunting with the hares and running with the hounds. It is sad to see what is unfolding in front of our eyes.

+100%!

RTE have been doing this since the beginning. Calling everyone out, scaremongering, George Lee wringing his hands and rolling his eyes on RTE News every night, the man is positively orgasmic about Covid........ yet Miriam O Callaghan can go to a retirement party with no mask!
They are experts with hunting with the hares and running with the hounds. Its so transparent now its farcical and I'm just surprised more people don't call them out in the middle an interview on it! If I was being interviewed I certainly would .

47akak

pjohnson wrote: »

Oooh is this getting ready to morph into a classic boards anti-welfare thread? Not suprising anti-restrictions are also anti-welfare, these movements do attract the same type.

Suspect there's a substantial overlap with several groups, who are generally the same people. Those who had some weird hangup about "students", remember them from the 90s and 2000s? Anti smoking-ban types. Climate change "sceptics". Vaccine "sceptics". Moon landings were faked. Trump supporter overlap too.

It's the same people whose anxieties manifest themselves in the preference for simplistic explanations offered by made-for-tv plucky spectics & underdogs railing against the ivory tower establishment who control everything. In this case it's a much more comforting answer than the truth, which is that authorities dealing with Covid are relatively are only slightly less blind than the average person, are incapable of controlling a deadly virus except with a crude blunt instrument and that stopping it is now down to chance with vaccines (an excellent chance but just chance).

So then it's the virus doesn't exist it's the result of PCR cycles, it's the flu, people aren't sick, those who are sick won't go to hospital, those who are in hospital were there anyway, those who died were going to die anyway, numbers in hospital are low, numbers in hospital the same as flu season, the vaccine won't work long term, lockdowns don't work but at the same time overall mortality is down while nobody is dying from Covid and suicides have shot up. There's a chain of beliefs some mutually exclusive some contradictory that each and every step of the way many completely refuse to accept. At its root it's about anxiety. It's like a horse refusing to jump a fence, just won't budge for anything or anyone.

rob316

rob316 wrote: »

Its uncommon enough though, the more than vast majority will be absolutely fine. Saying that I bumped into an old school friend over xmas and he was telling me he got Covid 6 months ago and still hasn't got back his sense of taste :eek:

its hardly life threatening or debilitating though is it?
Both my sister in the UK and her daughter got Covid and 3-4 months later have issues with their sense of taste. My daughter got it and her taste was the last thing to return 3 months later. But all of the above are fit and well and healthy all back at work. This whole thing of "long Covid" is surely very subjective.

FintanMcluskey

47akak wrote: »

Suspect there's a substantial overlap with several groups, who are generally the same people. Those who had some weird hangup about "students", remember them from the 90s and 2000s? Anti smoking-ban types. Climate change "sceptics". Vaccine "sceptics". Moon landings were faked. Trump supporter overlap too.

It's the same people whose anxieties manifest themselves in the preference for simplistic explanations offered by made-for-tv plucky spectics & underdogs railing against the ivory tower establishment who control everything. In this case it's a much more comforting answer than the truth, which is that authorities dealing with Covid are relatively are only slightly less blind than the average person, are incapable of controlling a deadly virus except with a crude blunt instrument and that stopping it is now down to chance with vaccines (an excellent chance but just chance).

So then it's the virus doesn't exist it's the result of PCR cycles, it's the flu, people aren't sick, those who are sick won't go to hospital, those who are in hospital were there anyway, those who died were going to die anyway, numbers in hospital are low, numbers in hospital the same as flu season, the vaccine won't work long term, lockdowns don't work but at the same time overall mortality is down while nobody is dying from Covid and suicides have shot up. There's a chain of beliefs some mutually exclusive some contradictory that each and every step of the way many completely refuse to accept. At its root it's about anxiety. It's like a horse refusing to jump a fence, just won't budge for anything or anyone.

I can only imagine this wall of nonsense took too long to write

Boggles

47akak wrote: »

Suspect there's a substantial overlap with several groups, who are generally the same people. Those who had some weird hangup about "students", remember them from the 90s and 2000s? Anti smoking-ban types. Climate change "sceptics". Vaccine "sceptics". Moon landings were faked. Trump supporter overlap too.

It's the same people whose anxieties manifest themselves in the preference for simplistic explanations offered by made-for-tv plucky spectics & underdogs railing against the ivory tower establishment who control everything. In this case it's a much more comforting answer than the truth, which is that authorities dealing with Covid are relatively are only slightly less blind than the average person, are incapable of controlling a deadly virus except with a crude blunt instrument and that stopping it is now down to chance with vaccines (an excellent chance but just chance).

So then it's the virus doesn't exist it's the result of PCR cycles, it's the flu, people aren't sick, those who are sick won't go to hospital, those who are in hospital were there anyway, those who died were going to die anyway, numbers in hospital are low, numbers in hospital the same as flu season, the vaccine won't work long term, lockdowns don't work but at the same time overall mortality is down while nobody is dying from Covid and suicides have shot up. There's a chain of beliefs some mutually exclusive some contradictory that each and every step of the way many completely refuse to accept. At its root it's about anxiety. It's like a horse refusing to jump a fence, just won't budge for anything or anyone.

Nail on the head, great post.

47akak

Boggles wrote: »

So the CMO is either Hitler or a 1970's Bishop?

All perfectly sane discourse today.

This is key to understanding the "spectics". Typically they create an overarching conspiracy between GPs, big pharma, Government and mild mannered medical officials like Tony Holohan who probably can't wait to f*** off into the sunset never to be seen or heard again. The illusion that someone is in control is on some level soothing despite the fact they're railing against it. The destructive chaos of a pandemic and the reality that nobody and nothing is in charge except chance doesn't sit well with people.

Tony Holohan might be a genius, or an incompetent clown, the truth is he's neither but it doesn't really matter here. To these people he's a Bond villain. "Laughing at us", "taking us for fools", "too busy doing X to care", all that stuff. It's such utter ****e.

one armed dwarf

Deleted User wrote: »

its hardly life threatening or debilitating though is it?

If it comes with a lack of smell that can be fairly debilitating. You can't smell gas leaks, notice when food is spoiled etc

normanoffside

23 outbreaks in Hospitals and 22 Outbreaks in nursing homes in the week up to 2nd January.

That's the real reason for our crisis and rising hospital numbers.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-sharp-increase-in-hospital-and-nursing-home-outbreaks-1.4451462?

CalamariFritti

A data analysis study published on science late December examined what restrictions have what effect on the spread/numbers.

According to them the big ones are school/uni/work. Anything where 10 or more people meet over extended periods. Non-essential retail/restaurants/pubs have only a small to medium impact. Stay-at-home orders and curfews only have a very small impact.

Captain Obvious says hello but anything that sheds more light on the situation is welcome.

Stormyteacup

47akak wrote: »

This is key to understanding the "spectics". Typically they create an overarching conspiracy between GPs, big pharma, Government and mild mannered medical officials like Tony Holohan who probably can't wait to f*** off into the sunset never to be seen or heard again. The illusion that someone is in control is on some level soothing despite the fact they're railing against it. The destructive chaos of a pandemic and the reality that nobody and nothing is in charge except chance doesn't sit well with people.

Tony Holohan might be a genius, or an incompetent clown, the truth is he's neither but it doesn't really matter here. To these people he's a Bond villain. "Laughing at us", "taking us for fools", "too busy doing X to care", all that stuff. It's such utter ****e.

Perhaps you've been spending a little too much time in conspiracy threads.

Why is it a problem to question the decisions of those who you say are flying only slightly less blind that the rest of us, and who most certainly do have an agenda in placating the very vocal terrified and outraged section of society to the detriment of the majority of society.

You can continue to tar any dissenters with the 'tin-foil hat' brush, and I will continue to be dismayed by the lemmings clamouring to swallow each new flavour of Kool-Aid dispensed to a blinkered public by leaders making fools of themselves to create the illusion of being best at managing this 'pandemic'.

Don't Chute!

47akak wrote: »

This is key to understanding the "spectics". Typically they create an overarching conspiracy between GPs, big pharma, Government and mild mannered medical officials like Tony Holohan who probably can't wait to f*** off into the sunset never to be seen or heard again. The illusion that someone is in control is on some level soothing despite the fact they're railing against it. The destructive chaos of a pandemic and the reality that nobody and nothing is in charge except chance doesn't sit well with people.

Tony Holohan might be a genius, or an incompetent clown, the truth is he's neither but it doesn't really matter here. To these people he's a Bond villain. "Laughing at us", "taking us for fools", "too busy doing X to care", all that stuff. It's such utter ****e.

Tony had already “****ed off into the sunset” remember? But then a very short time later he kicked in the door, swaggered in like John Wayne and told everybody that the sheriff was back and how ****ing stupid and bold we all were. Remember that? So easy for people like you to scream about conspiracy theories etc when it is nothing of the sort. The willingness of you people to completely absolve Tony and the HSE and all the rest of them despite what we know of their history is astonishing.

uli84

So schools are closed, Level 5 out of the window, I honestly would prefer they NEVER published that ‘living with Covid’ nonsense.
I truly believed they would stick to it, very disappointing

sprucemoose

rusty cole wrote: »

yes and very fit and healthy athletes die of SADS all the time, this is not uncommon. we're all human and unique which means our immune system can go against us creating mass inflammation and even shut down organs to try save itself..This biological counter strike can kill the patient but it's rare and may be what happened to your friend who I hope is ok.

yes but, much as im not expert on this, SADS isn't transmitted in the community so that's a false equivalency. I also would disagree with your definition of rare, from what i gather the death rate compared to cases currently sits at around 1 in 50 - that's quite high. luckily he is okay no thank you but he was severely fatigued for a number of months afterward

fin12

GazzaL wrote: »

I don't want to get into a public vs private sector debate, but having met a few teachers who were grinning ear-to-ear at the thought of being off work for an extended period on full pay, it's hard to have any sympathy for them. Likewise, many of the people shouting loudest to shut everything down are those who will still be working on full pay. We're not all in this together.

Not all teachers are like that, my brother was hoping the schools would open cause he prefers being in the class to doing online lessons.

GazzaL

I found it hard to understand how people stayed silent and even vociferously defended institutional abusers in times gone by until this pandemic.

sprucemoose

uli84 wrote: »

So schools are closed, Level 5 out of the window, I honestly would prefer they NEVER published that ‘living with Covid’ nonsense.

agreed, absolutely pointless. i think from the start we haven't actually kept to the system as originally laid out at any stage

47akak

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Perhaps you've been spending a little too much time in conspiracy threads.

Why is it a problem to question the decisions of those who you say are flying only slightly less blind that the rest of us, and who most certainly do have an agenda in placating the very vocal terrified and outraged section of society to the detriment of the majority of society.

You can continue to tar any dissenters with the 'tin-foil hat' brush, and I will continue to be dismayed by the lemmings clamouring to swallow each new flavour of Kool-Aid dispensed to a blinkered public by leaders making fools of themselves to create the illusion of being best at managing this 'pandemic'.

There's a difference between making criticisms using things that are true and making criticisms with things that aren't. It's the irrational stuff I'm talking about. The constant negation and contradiction of even basic objective realities around the virus. Nothing is ever "that's true but". It's always "that's not true, look here's a link from lunaticsmonthly.com that proves it". Or some incomprehensible zoomed out graph with 20 labels on it.

Nobody is above criticism but the "Tony Holohan is cackling while eating bat chowder from his gold plated mansion" end of criticism isn't credible. It undermines everything else said.

And the majority support robust measures to suppress the spread of the virus. The choice is not between the economy and suppression. You will have the same or worse economic damage if the virus is given free reign. If you want it to be suppressed fully you need to support the measures authoritarian countries like Australia and China implement. You can't have it every which way. And I suspect pound for pound it's the sceptics who are responsible for the spread of the disease more than everyone else. So again it's a case of wanting everything you like while not being prepared to support or cooperate with anything. It's nonsense.

And there you go proving my point with "pandemic". Disputing there even is one. After that you lose the debate.

47akak

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Tony had already “****ed off into the sunset” remember? But then a very short time later he kicked in the door, swaggered in like John Wayne and told everybody that the sheriff was back and how ****ing stupid and bold we all were. Remember that? So easy for people like you to scream about conspiracy theories etc when it is nothing of the sort. The willingness of you people to completely absolve Tony and the HSE and all the rest of them despite what we know of their history is astonishing.

You couldn't have done any more to prove my point. Thanks

_Kaiser_

sprucemoose wrote: »

agreed, absolutely pointless. i think from the start we haven't actually kept to the system as originally laid out at any stage

Nope, the "plan" was effectively torn up the same day it was announced with 2/3-and-a-bit restrictions instead.

I wonder how much the little booklet cost that they sent out to everyone and which was already invalid by the time it landed on the mat?

47akak

CalamariFritti wrote: »

A data analysis study published on science late December examined what restrictions have what effect on the spread/numbers.

According to them the big ones are school/uni/work. Anything where 10 or more people meet over extended periods. Non-essential retail/restaurants/pubs have only a small to medium impact. Stay-at-home orders and curfews only have a very small impact.

Captain Obvious says hello but anything that sheds more light on the situation is welcome.

Your interpretation is completely contradictory. A pub or a restaurant is a place where 10 or more people congregate for extended periods and is a considerable risk.

How could an Irish pub, with people from dozens of households piled in together pissed, shouting and signing within a foot of each other, not be a greater risk than almost any other setting you can imagine? The same isn't quite true of a restaurant but it's clearly high risk. To the extent it isn't it's a question of time over risk. You spend many multiples the time spent in pubs and restaurants at work. So therefore naturally you'll get a greater effect there. So it's not a case then you need to pick mutually exclusive options because one is slightly more effective than another in one small study.

normanoffside

normanoffside wrote: »

23 outbreaks in Hospitals and 22 Outbreaks in nursing homes in the week up to 2nd January.

That's the real reason for our crisis and rising hospital numbers.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-sharp-increase-in-hospital-and-nursing-home-outbreaks-1.4451462?

Did you read the numbers before you posted - those outbreaks include staff and amount to 166 cases in total.
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-19outbreaksclustersinireland/COVID-19%20Weekly%20Outbreak%20Report_Week532020_v1.0_04012021_WebVersion.pdf


Anyone can view them. It helps to see does information you share actually supports your contention before you use it to support your contention

hamburgham

Don't Chute! wrote: »

It does your head in because you know there is no end in sight to this. As I and others have said before this is a social media pandemic. It’s so ****ing easy for these people to pause Netflix post some vacuous drivel on Facebook sit back and await all the likes and “omg so true” replies from their fellow hashtag hunzo brigade. In their minds they’ve contributed to “fighting this deadly disease” etc but in reality they have done ****ing nothing. I said before on here that unfortunately the only thing that will take COVID off the headlines is something on the scale of 9/11. And THAT scares the **** out of me.

Yes, only saw on the Journal yesterday that two homeless people died in the Phoenix Park over Christmas. Only scan most newspapers now but didn't see it mentioned anywhere else. Also little or nothing about the landslide in Norway. Again watching little or no news so could be wrong.

Seweryn

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Hard to believe Sweden had a normal year for deaths!

In fact didn’t everywhere report noting extraordinary for deaths over the course of the year?

Yeah, quite an average year for Sweden in terms of death rates and you could find worse years in the past, not even going too far back, i.e. 2015, 2016, 2017 (more less the same), etc. The last year brings the calculated five year average down a good bit (seemed to be a milder year).

Anyway, here are the numbers from their official statistic office:

47akak

Seweryn wrote: »

Yeah, quite an average year for Sweden in terms of death rates and you could find worse years in the past, not even going too far back, i.e. 2015, 2016, 2017 (more less the same), etc. The last year brings the calculated five year average down a good bit (seemed to be a milder year).

Anyway, here are the numbers from their official statistic office:

Mortality doesn't remain stagnant year on year even with the same population. Your 2020 number is already over out by 2000 due to the well known delay in Sweden with reporting deaths and the excess mortality is in line with the official Covid death figures. More half-baked half-facts misused to create misinformation.

niallo27

47akak wrote: »

Mortality doesn't remain stagnant year on year even with the same population. Your 2020 number is already over out by 2000 due to the well known delay in Sweden with reporting deaths and the excess mortality is in line with the official Covid death figures. More half-baked half-facts misused to create misinformation.

Still 2000 in the middle of a pandemic is pretty remarkably low would you not think.

hamburgham

hamburgham wrote: »

Yes, only saw on the Journal yesterday that two homeless people died in the Phoenix Park yesterday. Only scan most newspapers now but didn't see it mentioned anywhere else. Also little or nothing about the landslide in Norway. Again watching little or no news so could be wrong.

2 homeless people died in one day and not so much as a dickie bird about it on 6.01 that day, this was in November.
Perhaps it would have been on the news if they had flu like symptoms!!! quick get the swabs lads and add them to
tonights jackpot tally!!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/two-men-found-dead-in-dublin-city-centre-1.4419090

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did you read the numbers before you posted - those outbreaks include staff and amount to 166 cases in total.
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-19outbreaksclustersinireland/COVID-19%20Weekly%20Outbreak%20Report_Week532020_v1.0_04012021_WebVersion.pdf


Anyone can view them. It helps to see does information you share actually supports your contention before you use it to support your contention

I believe yesterday was 68 discharges and 79 admissions and numbers increased by 71 instead of 11.

So 60 new cases.

Perhaps situation is getting worse.

47akak

niallo27 wrote: »

Still 2000 in the middle of a pandemic is pretty remarkably low would you not think.

That's not what I said. Actual mortality - pre-pandemic expected mortality accounting for multi-year trends indicates official figures for Covid deaths in Sweden are correct.

So it's not just a "normal year", what does that even mean anyway? They made up Covid deaths? If it's a "normal year" what did Covid deaths replace if they weren't made up? It was old people who would have conveniently booked their death in for the calendar year of 2020 anyway? Assume in that case flu did actually go away, cancers were treated as normal and there was no increase in suicides even if Sweden bad relatively lax Covid guidelines?