Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Penfailed

patnor1011 wrote: »

Lockdowns and restrictions.

Catastrophe Is All Around Us.

https://www.aier.org/article/catastrophe-is-all-around-us/

I thought it was only Ireland had a mainstream media that didn't challenge the narrative and a power hungry CMO? I thought it was only Ireland where there were job losses and suicides? A few people on the thread claim to be embarrassed to be Irish. This is not simply an Irish issue.
Substitute the names and locations in that article and you've got a similar narrative to many in this thread. It doesn't make it right though. It's an opinion.

Penfailed

Klonker wrote: »

I think closing construction sites is short sighted. Also, closing all except essential and social housing leaves a bad taste I think. The people who are getting houses paid for by the state ,their houses won't be delayed but the people who actually pay for their own houses, their houses will be delayed. Why is one getting preferential treatment over the other.

You know the housing crisis that was high up the agenda in the last election? That's why.

sprucemoose

sprucemoose wrote: »

yes but, much as im not expert on this, SADS isn't transmitted in the community so that's a false equivalency. I also would disagree with your definition of rare, from what i gather the death rate compared to cases currently sits at around 1 in 50 - that's quite high. luckily he is okay no thank you but he was severely fatigued for a number of months afterward

1 in 50 deaths to cases is a 2% of all cases die, ok if you call that high. so if I'm 98% unlikely to win the lotto say I've quite a high chance of getting rich??

Link https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6815659/and below bold

they estimate 2% of all respiratory deaths are from Flu. the devil is in the detail and I'm not comparing covid to Flu to be clear, I just think you're overestimating the odds of dying.

We estimated an average of 389 000 (uncertainty range 294 000-518 000) respiratory deaths were associated with influenza globally each year during the study period, corresponding to ~ 2% of all annual respiratory deaths. Of these, 67% were among people 65 years and older. Global burden estimates were robust to the choice of countries included in the extrapolation model. For people <65 years, higher baseline respiratory mortality, lower level of access to health care and seasons dominated by the A(H1N1)pdm09 subtype were associated with higher influenza-associated mortality, while lower level of socio-demographic development and A(H3N2) dominance was associated with higher influenza mortality in adults ≥65 years.

Seweryn

47akak wrote: »

That's not what I said. Actual mortality - pre-pandemic expected mortality accounting for multi-year trends indicates official figures for Covid deaths in Sweden are correct.

So it's not just a "normal year", what does that even mean anyway?

An average year in Sweden is approximately 8.7 - 9.1 k deaths per million for most years. Their 2020 number is about 8.9 k per million, which is average.

47akak

rusty cole wrote: »

1 in 50 deaths to cases is a 2% of all cases die, ok if you call that high. so if I'm 98% unlikely to win the lotto say I've quite a high chance of getting rich??

Just the 100,000 or so deaths here. Nothing to worry about. There are 4.9 million more of us.

niallo27

47akak wrote: »

Just the 100,000 or so deaths here. Nothing to worry about. There are 4.9 million more of us.

It varies massively depending on age, you know this. Also your assuming every single person the country gets it.

risteard7

The 100,000 deaths we were told? On current projections that will take about 30 years.

Klonker

Penfailed wrote: »

You know the housing crisis that was high up the agenda in the last election? That's why.

Do non social houses not count as houses now or what point are you trying to make? No construction should be closed, we need all the houses we can build at the moment.

risteard7

I wonder will the Government renew the contract with the private hospitals for future winters when flu & the trolley crisis returns?

47akak

niallo27 wrote: »

It varies massively depending on age, you know this. Also your assuming every single person the country gets it.

That's what many want though no? Just let it rip through, do everything as normal, don't take the dodgy vaccine?

I wonder what the mortality is when no medical assistance is available. It has hit 5-6% in some parts of the world. In parts of Europe it's over 3% CFR at least. And don't give me the "protect the vulnerable" spiel. So everyone above 60 is expected just to hole up indefinitely? Give up living forever. You're doing the exact same to them as what it is you're complaining about now. What economic damage would that do.

facehugger99

risteard7 wrote: »

I wonder will the Government renew the contract with the private hospitals for the future winters when flu & the trolley crisis returns?

Of course not.

The hysteria-brigade on social-media will have moved onto a different 'issue du jour' by then and we'll continue to limp along with our 3rd-rate, €20bn a year health service.

Graces7

robfowler78 wrote: »

I’m a bit sceptical of the long Covid numbers. The media seem to jump on anybody that is showing any sign of long Covid but yet we only seem to get the odd one here and there you would imagine by now it would be all over the news and the numbers would be huge worldwide this has been in circulation for at least 12months now.

Maybe I’m wrong and it will start to become a huge problem in the next 12 but I hope and think it’s not a common as people think

We M.E sufferers know what " long covid" is and how little notice folk take of it. Maybe have a look at the M.E Association and Action for ME websites as they knew very well that covid would lead to many cases of what they call long covid. As it has done. Just they don't hit the headlines. It is not dramatic etc.

The folk there will put it in proportion for you. and give you some idea of the numbers

Sorry I cannot stay to talk about this. In a very bad M.E patch and only online a few minutes. And the last thing we seek is airing our illness publically. We are too ill for that.

Long covid is strongly akin to M.E and is sheer hell on earth aka Chronc Fatigue Syndrome or Post Viral Fatigue Syndrome. It would be very unusual if a virus like covid did npt cause an after effect like " long covid"

Graces7

47akak wrote: »

That's what many want though no? Just let it rip through, do everything as normal, don't take the dodgy vaccine?

I wonder what the mortality is when no medical assistance is available. It has hit 5-6% in some parts of the world. In parts of Europe it's over 3% CFR at least. And don't give me the "protect the vulnerable" spiel. So everyone above 60 is expected just to hole up indefinitely? Give up living forever. You're doing the exact same to them as what it is you're complaining about now. What economic damage would that do.

Even with medical care? Have a look at the latest US figures.

MM on telling us stories about nurses from the Philippines dying as if we all have zero compassion for her. Leo is on giving his it's always darkest before the dawn speech, I wonder will he throw in some quotes from the breakfast club, just for his buddies.

Leaving cert age are ripe for the transmission, explain the sense in letting them out 3 days a week whilst we cannot see ANYONE!!!!

Eamon Ryan,,there are no words for that man, I wouldn't let him do a best man speech at the most drunken of weddings.

PUP and wage subsidy scheme running until 31st March at least.

So lockdown until then imo

PTH2009

31st of March the new date for the relaxing then

Norma "girl with the pearl necklace" says the schools are independently safe as assured by many many bodies.. why not extend those independent bodies to the cafe's and restaurants too then, in the interests of jobs at least!

bloody joke this whole outside the school gate is where it spreads shyte...

PTH2009

Will be some smirks on the faces of ye know who tonight

**** show and now it will be mid summer before meaningful restrictions will be lifted

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

PUP and wage subsidy scheme running until 31st March at least.

So lockdown until then imo

I presume then that in the first wave no restrictions were relaxed until the period the PUP with set up for at the start had expired?

_Kaiser_

rusty cole wrote: »

Norma "girl with the pearl necklace" says the schools are independently safe as assured by many many bodies.. why not extend those independent bodies to the cafe's and restaurants too then, in the interests of jobs at least!

bloody joke this whole outside the school gate is where it spreads shyte...

Solely a political decision. Reopening schools (and keeping them open) was the cornerstone promise of this Government when it took power.

Micheal Martin has obviously decided this must be maintained regardless of the contradictory nature of it vs other restrictions that are imposed. What else has he or his Government achieved after all?

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Solely a political decision. Reopening schools (and keeping them open) was the cornerstone promise of this Government when it took power.

Micheal Martin has obviously decided this must be maintained regardless of the contradictory nature of it vs other restrictions that are imposed. What else has he or his Government achieved after all?

Yea I suppose but you know everyone is selling a product/service/idea /lifestyle and philosophy. I could take to them if they were even a little moved and could speak eloquently but no, they cannot even reach people on a human or likeable level..At least "the LEEK" has the sense not to smirk when he's on the back foot, jesus christ..Does terry "PRONE to talking shyte" not rub anything on to them..her and her "ill communications" clinic me eye!!

Pitch n Putt

From all that bull announcement and press conference,At least we know schools are safe .....:rolleyes:

About ten times it was emphasised that schools are safe and the education sector was taking one for team Ireland by closing.

Reality is schools are not safe nowhere is. Stop the propaganda machine trying to convince people otherwise.

It’s all a mish mash as usual.

Close it all down the whole country for two weeks. Bar the very essential outlets food, health etc. Take the pain and then get on with them original and the great Living with Covid plan.

the kelt

Im sorry but what a cluster**** that was and still is.

Schools arent safe, if they were they would be open, stop the spin.

So 60k still go to schools that are safe but we want to stop people moving about.

So do busses still run every day to bring a few leaving cert kids to schools?

How does that stop people moving about?

But schools are safe anyway!

Dont forget now schools are safe.

Did we say by the way schools are safe.

Schools are safe because we have signed our poltical lives to saying schools are safe but you cant go in, well some of ye can and some of ye cant, but tyhere safe,.

Did we say there safe enough?

Fook me for the first time in my life SF actually looks like a viable option, this is pathetic.

MOH

47akak wrote: »

There's a difference between making criticisms using things that are true and making criticisms with things that aren't. It's the irrational stuff I'm talking about. The constant negation and contradiction of even basic objective realities around the virus. Nothing is ever "that's true but". It's always "that's not true, look here's a link from lunaticsmonthly.com that proves it". Or some incomprehensible zoomed out graph with 20 labels on it.

Nobody is above criticism but the "Tony Holohan is cackling while eating bat chowder from his gold plated mansion" end of criticism isn't credible. It undermines everything else said.

And the majority support robust measures to suppress the spread of the virus. The choice is not between the economy and suppression. You will have the same or worse economic damage if the virus is given free reign. If you want it to be suppressed fully you need to support the measures authoritarian countries like Australia and China implement. You can't have it every which way. And I suspect pound for pound it's the sceptics who are responsible for the spread of the disease more than everyone else. So again it's a case of wanting everything you like while not being prepared to support or cooperate with anything. It's nonsense.

And there you go proving my point with "pandemic". Disputing there even is one. After that you lose the debate.

That's a hilarious load of contradictory nonsense.

So you claim to be concerned about people basing criticisms on things that aren't true. And then immediately resort to hyperbole and made-up nonsense.

You then go on to label anyone who disagrees with you as a "sceptic", and then claim they're mostly responsible for spreading the pandemic, based on precisely zero evidence.

47akak wrote: »

Your interpretation is completely contradictory. A pub or a restaurant is a place where 10 or more people congregate for extended periods and is a considerable risk.

Citation needed. Where are you getting 10 people from?

How could an Irish pub, with people from dozens of households piled in together pissed, shouting and signing within a foot of each other, not be a greater risk than almost any other setting you can imagine? The same isn't quite true of a restaurant but it's clearly high risk. To the extent it isn't it's a question of time over risk. You spend many multiples the time spent in pubs and restaurants at work. So therefore naturally you'll get a greater effect there. So it's not a case then you need to pick mutually exclusive options because one is slightly more effective than another in one small study.

And there you go again.

I was in a pub a week before Christmas. I had some food, a few pints, and some badly needed social interaction. I'd say there were about 20 people in the pub. The closest other occupied table was at least 3m away.

I'd say some of them were pissed, but nobody was shouting or singing, and nobody was within a foot of anyone at another table. And people had masks on anyway any time they moved around the pub.

The next day I went for a walk as far as Grafton St. Thronged with people, clusters everywhere of small groups standing chatting in close proximity. Far greater risk than the sedate setting of the pub the day before.

Kermit.de.frog

The schools should just be shut.

I think what happened in Israel might be instructive for us.

Similar to here they allowed spread to reach a prevalence where their restrictions became ineffective. They just were not working to get levels of infection down to an acceptable level.

We have 25% positivity rate and massive spread of disease. We won't know for a few weeks but we might be an Argentina or Israel now where the restrictions, while having some impact, won't have the level of impact like before just due to sheer prevalence.

It amazes me that the government is not being taken to task more forcefully over where we where at the end of November and where we are now. It was their decisions that put the fuel on the embers which have led to the fire.

Now we are in reactionary mode again when we should have stayed proactive.

Lundstram

[Deleted User] wrote: »

PUP and wage subsidy scheme running until 31st March at least.

So lockdown until then imo

15th of January will be an interesting day. Those on the PUP and those who were paid TWSS will get their tax bills. Can’t wait for the moaning and crying while simultaneously calling for lockdown after lockdown. Irony will be completely lost on them of course.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The schools should just be shut.

I think what happened in Israel might be instructive for us.

Similar to here they allowed spread to reach a prevalence where their restrictions became ineffective. They just were not working to get levels of infection down to an acceptable level.

We have 25% positivity rate and massive spread of disease. We won't know for a few weeks but we might be an Argentina or Israel now where the restrictions, while having some impact, won't have the level of impact like before just due to sheer prevalence.

It amazes me that the government is not being taken to task more forcefully over where we where at the end of November and where we are now. It was their decisions that put the fuel on the embers which have led to the fire.

Now we are in reactionary mode again when we should have stayed proactive.

Lockdown or no lockdown, the illness will peak when it peaks.

Thankfully, looking at a country like Sweden, it is a pretty normal year in terms of deaths.

Gael23

Level 5 until the end of March with vaccines coming seems excessive

LessOutragePlz

Gael23 wrote: »

Level 5 until the end of March with vaccines coming seems excessive

Where did you hear this?

That would be absolute madness IMO.

AndrewJRenko

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

No it’s not even a chance you will be ok it’s about 99% guaranteed. In fact there is a decent chance you won’t even know you will have it.

It’s not your fault or others that don’t understand the risks are little different to everyday life.

I seen Ryan Tubridy say he was one of the lucky ones that he survived. Never heard such nonsense.

Hard to believe Sweden had a normal year for deaths!

In fact didn’t everywhere report noting extraordinary for deaths over the course of the year?

All normal in Sweden then?

https://twitter.com/DavidSteadson/status/1346843850602647554?s=19