Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

normanoffside

normanoffside wrote: »

There never been any secret made of it:

LV:

In Ireland we counted all deaths, in all settings, suspected cases even when no lab test was done, and included people with underlying terminal illnesses who died with Covid but not of it.

https://twitter.com/leovaradkar/status/1278995351169613824?s=21

Leo had his fitness and bio age tested on rte and it was in his 50's....a medical doctor and expert machinery gave the tests...he didnt like the results and what did he say when it suited him???? "I WOULD QUESTION THE SCIENCE"...THATS the attitude youre dealing with..
https://amp-rte-ie.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1028058/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16100099690600&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rte.ie%2Flifestyle%2Fliving%2F2019%2F0207%2F1028058-varadkar-40-learns-true-age-is-53-on-operation-transformation%2F

FintanMcluskey

pjohnson wrote: »

Are you suprised?

This was clear from the start. The movements have always been tied.

The anti-restrictors are a set type 99.9% of the time.

Ironically your nonsense figure is similar to the survival rate from Covid

GreeBo

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ironically your nonsense figure is similar to the survival rate from Covid

Still only talking about life or death Fintan?
Absolutely no lasting effects from covid that you are aware of right?

sprucemoose

weldoninhio wrote: »

Does literally everyone on Boards who are pro lockdown know a young person who got it and has a scare story??

probably? does literally everyone on boards who are against restrictions know 'a load of people who had it and didn't even know'? I think dismissing people's experiences as 'scare stories' is a bit ignorant too to be honest, these are people that in most cases nearly died, or at least felt so sick that they thought they were going to. fine if you don't think covid is a bit deal, bit at the very least show some human decency to people who have been infected and have had horrible experiences

sprucemoose

the kelt wrote: »

Im sorry but what a cluster**** that was and still is.

Schools arent safe, if they were they would be open, stop the spin.

So 60k still go to schools that are safe but we want to stop people moving about.

So do busses still run every day to bring a few leaving cert kids to schools?

How does that stop people moving about?

But schools are safe anyway!

Dont forget now schools are safe.

Did we say by the way schools are safe.

Schools are safe because we have signed our poltical lives to saying schools are safe but you cant go in, well some of ye can and some of ye cant, but tyhere safe,.

Did we say there safe enough?

Fook me for the first time in my life SF actually looks like a viable option, this is pathetic.

will somebody please think of the children!

47akak

patnor1011 wrote: »

We need to see like 20-30k cases a day.
Considering that majority of them do not have a clue they have it and never develop any symptom and minuscule amount of people ending up in hospital this is exactly what we need to put it all behind us with naturally acquired immunity.
Not to mention tons of money we can save on vaccines which will not be needed anymore.

This is either evil or stupid. Or both. We would have 10000+ in hospital at any one time, or should have, we wouldn't be able to manage. Care for anything other than acute cases would cease including many chemotherapy regimes and tens of thousands would die, many without any care being provided.

topper75

pjohnson wrote: »

Are you suprised?

This was clear from the start. The movements have always been tied.

The anti-restrictors are a set type 99.9% of the time.

Yeah. WHO are right-wing extremists. This was abundantly clear when they came out to state that "lockdowns only serve to make poor people poorer."

What sort of looking glass thinking is required to see people who want to remove restrictions as nazis, and to see those who curtail freedom as the good guys?

:rolleyes:

CruelSummer

There’s a lot of information out there re excess deaths now that 2020 is out. I found this website and a few others very useful when looking at excess deaths for 2020

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

There was also a U.K. graph I looked at recently where it broke down the Covid deaths versus other deaths. There does seem to be excess deaths across Europe in 2020 with spikes in both March/April, and from Oct onwards again.

As I previously stated, the overplaying of the virus situation throughout the summer months lost the trust of many people. While hospitals lay empty and medical staff were going on holidays. To the point where at Christmas, many people stopped listening and spent it as they usually would partying - just unofficially or under the radar.

This coupled with the new variant has us now being highlighted abroad for our soaring cases. There seems to be less lag time for hospitalisations also. The theory that we just add a couple more ICU beds to solve the problem when survival rates to people in ICU with Covid is 50% at best doesn’t stack up anymore. Especially as we’ve potentially life saving vaccines about to be administered which could save these people’s lives. It may turn out in a few weeks when information is available that this strain causes less/more deaths. The jury is out at the moment.
Will the vaccines work? There’s the big question.

The U.K. have gone all in. Heavy lockdown for 2 months while attempting to get all elderly, vulnerable and priority groups vaccinated. The fact they’re changing the Pfizer timetable is high risk. But if it pays off - the U.K. will emerge in March with much looser restrictions while they continue working through their vaccination programme.

I think Ireland's 45k per week if they can achieve that is respectable for now as more vaccines await approval. It will also get many vulnerable groups covered which will give us more room to relax restrictions in time.

sprucemoose

CruelSummer wrote: »

There’s a lot of information out there re excess deaths now that 2020 is out. I found this website and a few others very useful when looking at excess deaths for 2020

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

There was also a U.K. graph I looked at recently where it broke down the Covid deaths versus other deaths. There does seem to be excess deaths across Europe in 2020 with spikes in both March/April, and from Oct onwards again.

As I previously stated, the overplaying of the virus situation throughout the summer months lost the trust of many people. While hospitals lay empty and medical staff were going on holidays. To the point where at Christmas, many people stopped listening and spent it as they usually would partying - just unofficially or under the radar.

This coupled with the new variant has us now being highlighted abroad for our soaring cases. There seems to be less lag time for hospitalisations also. The theory that we just add a couple more ICU beds to solve the problem when survival rates to people in ICU with Covid is 50% at best doesn’t stack up anymore. Especially as we’ve potentially life saving vaccines about to be administered which could save these people’s lives. It may turn out in a few weeks when information is available that this strain causes less/more deaths. The jury is out at the moment.
Will the vaccines work? There’s the big question.

The U.K. have gone all in. Heavy lockdown for 2 months while attempting to get all elderly, vulnerable and priority groups vaccinated. The fact they’re changing the Pfizer timetable is high risk. But if it pays off - the U.K. will emerge in March with much looser restrictions while they continue working through their vaccination programme.

I think Ireland's 45k per week if they can achieve that is respectable for now as more vaccines await approval. It will also get many vulnerable groups covered which will give us more room to relax restrictions in time.

this thread isnt for such sensible and rational thinking!! we're here for hyperbole and nothing else!

Boggles

CruelSummer wrote: »

.

As I previously stated, the overplaying of the virus situation throughout the summer months lost the trust of many people. While hospitals lay empty and medical staff were going on holidays. To the point where at Christmas, many people stopped listening and spent it as they usually would partying - just unofficially or under the radar.

People were actually given money to stay-cation during the summer months?

Also I am pretty sure the UK had all pubs open during the summer months, if that is what you are alluding to.

What's their excuse?

zerosugarbuzz

CruelSummer wrote: »

There’s a lot of information out there re excess deaths now that 2020 is out. I found this website and a few others very useful when looking at excess deaths for 2020

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

There was also a U.K. graph I looked at recently where it broke down the Covid deaths versus other deaths. There does seem to be excess deaths across Europe in 2020 with spikes in both March/April, and from Oct onwards again.

As I previously stated, the overplaying of the virus situation throughout the summer months lost the trust of many people. While hospitals lay empty and medical staff were going on holidays. To the point where at Christmas, many people stopped listening and spent it as they usually would partying - just unofficially or under the radar.

This coupled with the new variant has us now being highlighted abroad for our soaring cases. There seems to be less lag time for hospitalisations also. The theory that we just add a couple more ICU beds to solve the problem when survival rates to people in ICU with Covid is 50% at best doesn’t stack up anymore. Especially as we’ve potentially life saving vaccines about to be administered which could save these people’s lives. It may turn out in a few weeks when information is available that this strain causes less/more deaths. The jury is out at the moment.
Will the vaccines work? There’s the big question.

The U.K. have gone all in. Heavy lockdown for 2 months while attempting to get all elderly, vulnerable and priority groups vaccinated. The fact they’re changing the Pfizer timetable is high risk. But if it pays off - the U.K. will emerge in March with much looser restrictions while they continue working through their vaccination programme.

I think Ireland's 45k per week if they can achieve that is respectable for now as more vaccines await approval. It will also get many vulnerable groups covered which will give us more room to relax restrictions in time.

Interesting when you look at the map. No data from Ireland, Scotland, Italy etc. Low excess in Sweden, Spain, France and Greece. No excess in Norway, Denmark and Wales. Surprised at Portugal’s high excess.

Stormyteacup

Deleted User wrote: »

I am sorry, but that is a false narrative. Some of those who died of covid may have died of something else within a certain time frame, but its undeniable that they died of covid, yet this thread wants us to ignore it

Look I would agree with you to an extent while positive figures were low, and in particular when applied to hospital only deaths. But consider the prevalence of Covid in the community and in our hospitals and nursing homes currently.

An average of 80 people will die every day, every one of them that tests positive before or after death will have Covid on their death certs, regardless of it being the cause of death or a contributing factor, or nothing to do with the reason they died.

These deaths are what are reported in daily figures. It’s not a conspiracy to scare people, it’s the established protocol for reporting (just poorly explained to public).

A denotified death is on account of awaiting confirmation of a positive lab result, if results are pending, or if death was considered a probable/possible death (i.e. presumed positive even in absence of test) and that changed on review.

But once there’s a lab-confirmed positive for Covid, it goes on the death cert every time, and is included in death totals announced.

weldoninhio

sprucemoose wrote: »

probably? does literally everyone on boards who are against restrictions know 'a load of people who had it and didn't even know'? I think dismissing people's experiences as 'scare stories' is a bit ignorant too to be honest, these are people that in most cases nearly died, or at least felt so sick that they thought they were going to. fine if you don't think covid is a bit deal, bit at the very least show some human decency to people who have been infected and have had horrible experiences

Strange that the doom laden newspapers aren't interviewing all these "long covid" patients, there must be thousands of them at this point. :rolleyes:

Odds of knowing someone who had it without any issues must be about evens looking at the stats. Hardly surprising that lots of people know someone like that.

sprucemoose

weldoninhio wrote: »

Strange that the doom laden newspapers aren't interviewing all these "long covid" patients, there must be thousands of them at this point. :rolleyes:

Odds of knowing someone who had it without any issues must be about evens looking at the stats. Hardly surprising that lots of people know someone like that.

i know two people both interviewed by the IT and Examiner, another was featured on the RTE a number of months back. I'm pretty sure i've seen similar stories on things like Nationwide, Prime Time etc,. The end of year news review thing on NYE on RTE had a few stories from what i remember too.

Like i originally said, most young/healthy people will be fine if they contract covid but a number of them have had horrible experiences

zerosugarbuzz

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Interesting when you look at the map. No data from Ireland, Scotland, Italy etc. Low excess in Sweden, Spain, France and Greece. No excess in Norway, Denmark and Wales. Surprised at Portugal’s high excess.

If there was no covid in 2020 and you plotted the excess deaths for all countries, you would find some had an excess and some had a reduction and some on their mean. So when you plot those with covid its no surprise some dont have an excess, some have a small excess and some have a very large excess. Covid has shifted the distribution. And the absence of Flu so far this winter has shifted it back slightly

uli84

Soo trying to buy something in Argos, essential of course but - store reservation not available is the message im getting- this is ridiculous - are they opened or closed-anyone knows?

zerosugarbuzz

Deleted User wrote: »

If there was no covid in 2020 and you plotted the excess deaths for all countries, you would find some had an excess and some had a reduction and some on their mean. So when you plot those with covid its no surprise some dont have an excess, some have a small excess and some have a very large excess. Covid has shifted the distribution. And the absence of Flu so far this winter has shifted it back slightly

Considering we have a global pandemic sweeping through Europe for the past year then yes I would have expected a high rate of excess deaths. Why would anyone not expect excess deaths during a pandemic? I’m looking forward to seeing the figures for Ireland.

zerosugarbuzz

uli84 wrote: »

Soo trying to buy something in Argos, essential of course but - store reservation not available is the message im getting- this is ridiculous - are they opened or closed-anyone knows?

Click and collect is banned, so delivery only.

SweetCaliber

uli84 wrote: »

Soo trying to buy something in Argos, essential of course but - store reservation not available is the message im getting- this is ridiculous - are they opened or closed-anyone knows?

Stores are closed:

I'd imagine stores are only open today for existing reservations not new ones.

uli84

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Click and collect is banned, so delivery only.

Wow, like what sorta problem they now have with click & collect, either way - argos only delivers furniture and big items so I guess I may forget it, i’m so fed up.

JRant

Boggles wrote: »

People were actually given money to stay-cation during the summer months?

Also I am pretty sure the UK had all pubs open during the summer months, if that is what you are alluding to.

What's their excuse?

They were?
I missed that memo.

I do know they had a Stay and Spend scheme but that's from October to April.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/personal-tax-credits-reliefs-and-exemptions/stay-and-spend/index.aspx

Considering we'll be in Level 5 restrictions for the majority of it then it's about as useful as tits on a bull.

emeldc

uli84 wrote: »

Soo trying to buy something in Argos, essential of course but - store reservation not available is the message im getting- this is ridiculous - are they opened or closed-anyone knows?

The only ridiculous thing is that you didn’t know that click and collect had been stopped. It’s been on just about every news bulletin I’ve heard since lunchtime yesterday.

Ashleigh1986

On galway bay fm this morning ...
Manager of uchg ( university college hospital ) comes on ....
"We have 27 ICU beds in hospital ...6 are occupied "
That's not even 25 % .
Next editor of local newspaper comes on the air talking about today's edition of paper .
He is talking about covid in the hospital and uses language like " tsunami "and overwhelmed " ...
The part the Irish media is playing in all this is shocking .

SnuggyBear

emeldc wrote: »

The only ridiculous thing is that you didn’t know that click and collect had been stopped. It’s been on just about every news bulletin I’ve heard since lunchtime yesterday.

Ah would you stop, you have to dedicate your life to covid to keep up with the rules.

uli84

emeldc wrote: »

The only ridiculous thing is that you didn’t know that click and collect had been stopped. It’s been on just about every news bulletin I’ve heard since lunchtime yesterday.

Avoiding the news, trying to take care of my mental health

polesheep

CruelSummer wrote: »

There’s a lot of information out there re excess deaths now that 2020 is out. I found this website and a few others very useful when looking at excess deaths for 2020

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

There was also a U.K. graph I looked at recently where it broke down the Covid deaths versus other deaths. There does seem to be excess deaths across Europe in 2020 with spikes in both March/April, and from Oct onwards again.

As I previously stated, the overplaying of the virus situation throughout the summer months lost the trust of many people. While hospitals lay empty and medical staff were going on holidays. To the point where at Christmas, many people stopped listening and spent it as they usually would partying - just unofficially or under the radar.

This coupled with the new variant has us now being highlighted abroad for our soaring cases. There seems to be less lag time for hospitalisations also. The theory that we just add a couple more ICU beds to solve the problem when survival rates to people in ICU with Covid is 50% at best doesn’t stack up anymore. Especially as we’ve potentially life saving vaccines about to be administered which could save these people’s lives. It may turn out in a few weeks when information is available that this strain causes less/more deaths. The jury is out at the moment.
Will the vaccines work? There’s the big question.

The U.K. have gone all in. Heavy lockdown for 2 months while attempting to get all elderly, vulnerable and priority groups vaccinated. The fact they’re changing the Pfizer timetable is high risk. But if it pays off - the U.K. will emerge in March with much looser restrictions while they continue working through their vaccination programme.

I think Ireland's 45k per week if they can achieve that is respectable for now as more vaccines await approval. It will also get many vulnerable groups covered which will give us more room to relax restrictions in time.

This is where the seeds were planted for what happened over Christmas. I ignored the overplaying and enjoyed a good summer with a great holiday in Italy. As a result, when Christmas came around I didn't share the frustration and pent up demand for release that many of those around me had.

zerosugarbuzz

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Considering we have a global pandemic sweeping through Europe for the past year then yes I would have expected a high rate of excess deaths. Why would anyone not expect excess deaths during a pandemic? I’m looking forward to seeing the figures for Ireland.

Well for one thing, control measures have meant only a small proportion of the population caught it

polesheep

emeldc wrote: »

The only ridiculous thing is that you didn’t know that click and collect had been stopped. It’s been on just about every news bulletin I’ve heard since lunchtime yesterday.

And that's a bad idea. Where people could previously click and collect essential items, they will now go and browse in store.

CruelSummer

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Considering we have a global pandemic sweeping through Europe for the past year then yes I would have expected a high rate of excess deaths. Why would anyone not expect excess deaths during a pandemic? I’m looking forward to seeing the figures for Ireland.

The Countries you quoted also did heavy lockdowns/restrictions, with Ireland included in that. I'm not a fan of prolonged lockdowns / restrictions but they did stop many of the at risk groups of dying from/with Covid. The cost and price we pay for them as a method of controlling Covid is huge, and a debate I've argued about on here many times. However if there's a new variant that will cause more excess deaths in January, while at the same time we've found vaccines that work - I can understand trying to slow the spread and get people vaccinated at this point. And I don't think vaccines will ultimately be the ultimate silver bullet if it keeps mutating but will have a role to play, would be happy to be wrong on that.

CruelSummer

polesheep wrote: »

This is where the seeds were planted for what happened over Christmas. I ignored the overplaying and enjoyed a good summer with a great holiday in Italy. As a result, when Christmas came around I didn't share the frustration and pent up demand for release that many of those around me had.

I agree totally, I was often subject to people who were still going around as it the black death was on our doorstep in the middle of August in the blazing sunshine.