Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

facehugger99

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Ah would you stop, you have to dedicate your life to covid to keep up with the rules.

That's exactly what a lot of these lads have done.

zerosugarbuzz

Deleted User wrote: »

Well for one thing, control measures have meant only a small proportion of the population caught it

There’s been a lot of suffering and lockdowns for a pandemic with very few excess deaths. The penny will drop at some point, we have a lot of paid politicians who’ll be more than aware of this. Kind of takes the wind out of the COVID cheerleaders sails though. Here we are in level 5 lockdown again. Mind boggling.

CruelSummer

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

On galway bay fm this morning ...
Manager of uchg ( university college hospital ) comes on ....
"We have 27 ICU beds in hospital ...6 are occupied "
That's not even 25 % .
Next editor of local newspaper comes on the air talking about today's edition of paper .
He is talking about covid in the hospital and uses language like " tsunami "and overwhelmed " ...
The part the Irish media is playing in all this is shocking .

This post is misleading. Spookwoman posts up the hospital data daily on the other thread. There is just one critical care bed available in the hospital. 6 might be occupied with Covid. The treatment for Covid had changed over the last few months but from speaking to nurses, Covid patients admitted are much sicker than flu patients.

Poorside

polesheep wrote: »

And that's a bad idea. Where people could previously click and collect essential items, they will now go and browse in store.

No, those stores are closed to the public, delivery only.

road_high

facehugger99 wrote: »

That's exactly what a lot of these lads have done.

My first thoughts exactly- there's people who's whole lives now revolve around it.

JRant

road_high wrote: »

My first thoughts exactly- there's people who's whole lives now revolve around it.

A multi billion euro industry has also developed around it.

Penfailed

uli84 wrote: »

Soo trying to buy something in Argos, essential of course but - store reservation not available is the message im getting- this is ridiculous - are they opened or closed-anyone knows?

Closed.

FintanMcluskey

CruelSummer wrote: »

The Countries you quoted also did heavy lockdowns/restrictions, with Ireland included in that. I'm not a fan of prolonged lockdowns / restrictions but they did stop many of the at risk groups of dying from/with Covid. The cost and price we pay for them as a method of controlling Covid is huge, and a debate I've argued about on here many times. However if there's a new variant that will cause more excess deaths in January, while at the same time we've found vaccines that work - I can understand trying to slow the spread and get people vaccinated at this point. And I don't think vaccines will ultimately be the ultimate silver bullet if it keeps mutating but will have a role to play, would be happy to be wrong on that.

Have you evidence many of the at risk groups were saved?

So are you alluding to continue with lockdowns for the rest of your natural life?

Penfailed

polesheep wrote: »

And that's a bad idea. Where people could previously click and collect essential items, they will now go and browse in store.

They won't be able to as the stores are also closing.

FintanMcluskey

polesheep wrote: »

And that's a bad idea. Where people could previously click and collect essential items, they will now go and browse in store.

It’s absolutely bizarre.

Speaking with colleagues in Europe Ireland is now the most suppressed nation in the EU.

Although technically it always was

Madrid is relatively normal

CIARAN_BOYLE

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It’s absolutely bizarre.

Speaking with colleagues in Europe Ireland is now the most suppressed nation in the EU.

Although technically it always was

Madrid is relatively normal

The community of Madrid has a higher population than we do.

Since 23 December they have reported 27,728 cases. We've had that + backlog since 31 31 December.

FintanMcluskey

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

The community of Madrid has a higher population than we do.

Since 23 December they have reported 27,728 cases. We've had that + backlog since 31 31 December.

So that’s suggesting restrictions aren’t the answer.

It must be the home where most spreading is occurring

Isn’t it better to have people socialise in controlled environments as opposed to the home?

Restrictions are likely to make the spread worse

CruelSummer

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Have you evidence many of the at risk groups were saved?

So are you alluding to continue with lockdowns for the rest of your natural life?

Of course not. I don’t support lockdowns as a strategy. I’ve also posted that the crying wolf of the media plus professors over the last few months led to people ignoring their advice.
However when a new variant, plus unmanageable numbers, plus vaccine all arrive into the equation. Plus more data coming on stream. I do think you cannot just keep advocating to plough on blindly.
The biggest problem I foresee is when things start to settle down towards the end of January, will they reopen as they should or keep it going indefinitely as Dr Holohan and NPHET have traditionally been ‘ultra conservative’ to say the least.

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It’s absolutely bizarre.

Speaking with colleagues in Europe Ireland is now the most suppressed nation in the EU.

Although technically it always was

Madrid is relatively normal

I note you've conveniently used 'EU' rather than Europe. The UK have pretty much shutdown too.

Relatively normal? https://www.esmadrid.com/en/information-coronavirus?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

FintanMcluskey

CruelSummer wrote: »

Of course not. I don’t support lockdowns as a strategy. I’ve also posted that the crying wolf of the media plus professors over the last few months led to people ignoring their advice.
However when a new variant, plus unmanageable numbers, plus vaccine all arrive into the equation. Plus more data coming on stream. I do think you cannot just keep advocating to plough on blindly.
The biggest problem I foresee is when things start to settle down towards the end of January, will they reopen as they should or keep it going indefinitely as Dr Holohan and NPHET have traditionally been ‘ultra conservative’ to say the least.

But we never ploughed on.

We implemented social distancing hand washing and mask wearing as the most basic mitigation.

We closed the social scenes in Dublin for all but a month.

We forced people to socialise in uncontrolled environments

Prohibition doesn’t work

We now closed everything, without any evidence of cases, to further force socialising into uncontrollable environments

FintanMcluskey

Penfailed wrote: »

I note you've conveniently used 'EU' rather than Europe. The UK have pretty much shutdown too.

Relatively normal? https://www.esmadrid.com/en/information-coronavirus?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

No I said EU because Ireland is in the EU.

Your comparing Ireland and the UK

You are so pedantic, it’s relatively normal from a socialising point of view.

Not everywhere is shut

Necro

road_high wrote: »

My first thoughts exactly- there's people who's whole lives now revolve around it.

Mod:

Yet another threadban breach, forum banned for a month

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

No I said EU because Ireland is in the EU.

Your comparing Ireland and the UK

You are so pedantic, it’s relatively normal from a socialising point of view.

Not everywhere is shut

Much like we were in the summer. You didn't think that was relatively normal. I'm just off the phone to a friend living in Limoges in France. They've even tighter restrictions than the UK.

Madrid have a curfew and mask wearing outdoors. Relatively normal?

Whatsisname

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

On galway bay fm this morning ...
Manager of uchg ( university college hospital ) comes on ....
"We have 27 ICU beds in hospital ...6 are occupied "
That's not even 25 % .
Next editor of local newspaper comes on the air talking about today's edition of paper .
He is talking about covid in the hospital and uses language like " tsunami "and overwhelmed " ...
The part the Irish media is playing in all this is shocking .

I was shocked to find out yesterday only 2 people have died from covid in my home county of Waterford since it all started. And people have put it down to "luck". I don't know how people can't put 2 and 2 together to realise "hmm maybe this isn't as dangerous as we initially feared?" even tho thats an incredibly GOOD thing. Sunk cost fallacy is the only explanation at this stage.

FintanMcluskey

Penfailed wrote: »

I'm just off the phone to a friend living in Limoges in France. They've even tighter restrictions than the UK.

Will you ring a different friend over there, fairly certain schools are open over there

Graham

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It must be the home where most spreading is occurring

Isn’t it better to have people socialise in controlled environments as opposed to the home?

Ahhh the old false dilemma fallacy.

Of course the sensible answer is it's better to not socialise at the moment.

CalamariFritti

Whatsisname wrote: »

I was shocked to find out yesterday only 2 people have died from covid in my home county of Waterford since it all started. And people have put it down to "luck". I don't know how people can't put 2 and 2 together to realise "hmm maybe this isn't as dangerous as we initially feared?" even tho thats an incredibly GOOD thing. Sunk cost fallacy is the only explanation at this stage.

The world has gone so far off the cliff they dont even know it anymore.

The very fact that we have to debate heavily whether there is excess death or not or whether it is 10% or 20% or none at all. And the fact that it is totally random whether you may have excess death or not with regards to measures/lockdown.

And yet we plough on regardless. No alternative they say.

All the while the old and vulnerable in the care homes and hospitals continue to die anyway.

FintanMcluskey

Graham wrote: »

Ahhh the old false dilemma fallacy.

Of course the sensible answer is it's better to not socialise at the moment.

Fair enough.

But the intelligent answer is that we are not stopping the socialising.

The home will never be controlled.

You will never achieve group think across the whole country.

It’s idiotic to think you would.

There would be no need for judicial systems or governments etc if everyone pulled in the same direction

Graham

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Fair enough.

But the intelligent answer is that we are not stopping the socialising.

The intelligent solution is stop the socialising.

One of the reasons for judicial systems is to enforce laws.

See where we're heading here.....

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Will you ring a different friend over there, fairly certain schools are open over there

I'm fairly certain you are correct. They also have a curfew in place and an on the spot fine of €135 for not wearing masks where they are mandated. Ireland is the "most suppressed nation"?

FintanMcluskey

Penfailed wrote: »

I'm fairly certain you are correct. They also have a curfew in place and an on the spot fine of €135 for not wearing masks where they are mandated. Ireland is the "most suppressed nation"?

Irish citizens are incredibly compliant regarding mask wearing fines are not required.

Ireland is the most suppressed nation by a long way.

Everything is shut with the exception of food shops.

FintanMcluskey

Graham wrote: »

The intelligent solution is stop the socialising.

One of the reasons for judicial systems is to enforce laws.

See where we're heading here.....

Let’s back up.

Perhaps intelligent solution is to identify the traits of human nature that won’t be suppressed.

Socialising is one, it needs to occur in controlled environments like restaurants with adequate ventilation and space.

You can pontificate about how a family man/woman doesn’t actually need to socialise and that’s correct because they have no real requirement to.

However many people aren’t that luckily and the age groups that most cases are occurring in show socialising is likely top of their priority list

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Irish citizens are incredibly compliant regarding mask wearing fines are not required.

Ireland is the most suppressed nation by a long way.

Everything is shut with the exception of food shops.

If you feel suppressed, you're going to think you are suppressed. I don't.

In France, there's an 8.00pm curfew and they have to download a form/attestation and fill in your details and the time you leave the house (for shopping etc.)
If you're stopped by the police (and they are stopping people) and let's say it's three hours after the time you left home - you're fined. Same goes if you're stopped 100 miles from home without a good reason. Only 'essential' shops are open there too - no hairdressers, gyms, etc.
Who's suppressed?

Graham

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Let’s back up.

Perhaps intelligent solution is to identify the traits of human nature that won’t be suppressed.

Socialising is one, it needs to occur in controlled environments like restaurants with adequate ventilation and space

While it might not be pleasant (particularly for those that live alone and are unable to form a bubble for whatever reason) to pretend the population is incapable of foregoing socialising for a month is just silly.

FintanMcluskey

Penfailed wrote: »

If you feel suppressed, you're going to think you are suppressed. I don't.

In France, there's an 8.00pm curfew and they have to download a form/attestation and fill in your details and the time you leave the house (for shopping etc.)
If you're stopped by the police (and they are stopping people) and let's say it's three hours after the time you left home - you're fined. Same goes if you're stopped 100 miles from home without a good reason. Only 'essential' shops are open there too - no hairdressers, gyms, etc.
Who's suppressed?

That’s strange

I thought it was regional restrictions in France with schools still attended