Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Penfailed

CruelSummer wrote: »

On the alcohol point...while I don't think there should be any curbs on people buying say a bottle of wine/spirits/beers...Maybe they should introduce a limit on the amount you can buy. I know these systems will all be abused, send in one person, then another. But it might deter some.
I just two people in the alcohol section of my local supermarket buying 3 cases full of wine - 18 bottles. Followed by a couple of boxes of beer. They didn't really have anything else in their trolley only alcohol. Who would need that kind of quantity of alcohol at the moment.

Maybe they were thinking ahead and buying in bulk so as to limit their interactions in the shop?

CruelSummer

CruelSummer wrote: »

On the alcohol point...while I don't think there should be any curbs on people buying say a bottle of wine/spirits/beers...Maybe they should introduce a limit on the amount you can buy. I know these systems will all be abused, send in one person, then another. But it might deter some.
I just two people in the alcohol section of my local supermarket buying 3 cases full of wine - 18 bottles. Followed by a couple of boxes of beer. They didn't really have anything else in their trolley only alcohol. Who would need that kind of quantity of alcohol at the moment.

I get your point. But if said supermarket had an offer, and the two people were moderate drinkers who may regard 3 cases of wine and 2 cases of beer as sufficient for 3 months, why should they not be allowed to buy it all in one go? For one thing it will reduce their visits to the supermarket.

hynesie08

CruelSummer wrote: »

On the alcohol point...while I don't think there should be any curbs on people buying say a bottle of wine/spirits/beers...Maybe they should introduce a limit on the amount you can buy. I know these systems will all be abused, send in one person, then another. But it might deter some.
I just two people in the alcohol section of my local supermarket buying 3 cases full of wine - 18 bottles. Followed by a couple of boxes of beer. They didn't really have anything else in their trolley only alcohol. Who would need that kind of quantity of alcohol at the moment.

Maybe they had a couple of 10 off 50 vouchers and they're stocking up because you can't use them after Sunday?

Maybe they own a small cafe doing takeaway and they're selling it at a profit?

Maybe they're alcoholics planning a 3 day bender?

Tenzor07

CruelSummer wrote: »

On the alcohol point...while I don't think there should be any curbs on people buying say a bottle of wine/spirits/beers...Maybe they should introduce a limit on the amount you can buy. I know these systems will all be abused, send in one person, then another. But it might deter some.
I just two people in the alcohol section of my local supermarket buying 3 cases full of wine - 18 bottles. Followed by a couple of boxes of beer. They didn't really have anything else in their trolley only alcohol. Who would need that kind of quantity of alcohol at the moment.

Isn't it just wonderful how the debate on Alcohol is taking everyone's attention away from the slow roll out of vaccines, the poor response on protection of nursing homes, and the U-turns in areas such as Education... Marvelous!

Boggles

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Isn't it just wonderful how the debate on Alcohol is taking everyone's attention away from the slow roll out of vaccines, the poor response on protection of nursing homes, and the U-turns in areas such as Education... Marvelous!

True, there is people on this thread who think NPHET have invented the pandemic to close pubs permanently.

GreeBo

Silentcorner wrote: »

Nothing to do with our pathetic ICU capacity then?

Hang about, just a few posts earlier you told us ICU gets like this twice a year... So which is it? Covid is different or its not?
If it's different then people should act differently, if it's not different then we should see the same outcomes from the same ICU conditions.

GreeBo

hmmm wrote: »

If the numbers in ICU are doubling every week, doubling our capacity would only buy us an extra week.
?

This.
People don't seem to be able to grasp this. Nphet did of course, they were capable of watching and learning from other countries. They even told us it was coming, multiple times, if we didn't change our behaviour.

Tenzor07

Boggles wrote: »

True, there is people on this thread who think NPHET have invented the pandemic to close pubs permanently.

All part of the tactics to have the public squabble among each other, to point fingers at their neighbours, to blame responsible law abiding citizens who went for a pint and a turkey dinner in the short window the restaurants were open...

Meanwhile diverting attention away from the lack of leadership and action of the state authorities...

GreeBo

JRant wrote: »

You still don't get to rewrite history though. Look at those quotes from the NPHET and Prof Nolan. Now tell me where it says we would get to nearly 8000 cases a day with the numbers getting completely out of control.

Argh!
They told us it could get to over 1000 cases and be out of control.
8000 is what you get 3 days after 1000 cases with something that doubles every day.
1000 -> 2000 -> 4000 -> 8000

FintanMcluskey

CruelSummer wrote: »

On the alcohol point...while I don't think there should be any curbs on people buying say a bottle of wine/spirits/beers...Maybe they should introduce a limit on the amount you can buy. I know these systems will all be abused, send in one person, then another. But it might deter some.
I just two people in the alcohol section of my local supermarket buying 3 cases full of wine - 18 bottles. Followed by a couple of boxes of beer. They didn't really have anything else in their trolley only alcohol. Who would need that kind of quantity of alcohol at the moment.

Isn’t that bordering on prohibition?

However my point all along is that drinking should continue to occur in controlled environments not in the home. Restaurants in NI are estimated to effect the RO by 0.1.

It’s irrelevant now anyway because Europe’s most suppressed nation will continue to be until April at the earliest.

It’s important to recognise Ireland’s policy of suppression has been an unmitigated disaster from both cases numbers and the sunk cost of lockdown.

GreeBo

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

That doesn’t make a great deal of sense.

Why have an evening bulletin to include an unquantified number of cases over a 14 day period?

Today’s test rate is of course important

A lot has changed in 2 weeks

I suspect you also know this

Because it takes two weeks from the results to materialize?

Do you increase our population count when someone gets pregnant or when they give birth?
"Ugh, some of these numbers are from people who were conceived 9 months ago!"

GreeBo

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Isn’t that bordering on prohibition?

However my point all along is that drinking should continue to occur in controlled environments not in the home. Restaurants in NI are estimated to effect the RO by 0.1.

It’s irrelevant now anyway because Europe’s most suppressed nation will continue to be until April at the earliest.

It’s important to recognise Ireland’s policy of suppression has been an unmitigated disaster from both cases numbers and the sunk cost of lockdown.

So your argument is that by adjusting people to do things in a controlled public environment, they will no longer do those same things in the private home environment?

And yet you also think people are reacting to oppression from the government?

GreeBo

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Isn't it just wonderful how the debate on Alcohol is taking everyone's attention away from the slow roll out of vaccines, the poor response on protection of nursing homes, and the U-turns in areas such as Education... Marvelous!

Isn't it incredible that otherwise intelligent human beings can have a goldfish memory when it comes to vaccine distribution deployments?

FintanMcluskey

GreeBo wrote: »

Because it takes two weeks from the results to materialize?

Do you increase our population count when someone gets pregnant or when they give birth?
"Ugh, some of these numbers are from people who were conceived 9 months ago!"

Some of the analogies are bizarre.

Accurate daily cases numbers are of course relevant to know exactly what is to be expected in the next 14 days and predict transmission level.

The equivalent would be a doctor announcing to a woman she’s pregnant when the young lad is already at school

Tenzor07

GreeBo wrote: »

Isn't it incredible that otherwise intelligent human beings can have a goldfish memory when it comes to vaccine distribution deployments?

Sorry, what was that about limiting alcohol sales you said?

FintanMcluskey

GreeBo wrote: »

This.
People don't seem to be able to grasp this. Nphet did of course, they were capable of watching and learning from other countries. They even told us it was coming, multiple times, if we didn't change our behaviour.

NPHET were capable of watching and learning from other countries.

That is the most inaccurate post of this thread.

NPHET considered the tracing the source of infections as “academic” exercise with little benefit.

The rest of Europe is relatively open with regional restrictions in place where required.

paw patrol

CruelSummer wrote: »

On the alcohol point...while I don't think there should be any curbs on people buying say a bottle of wine/spirits/beers...Maybe they should introduce a limit on the amount you can buy. I know these systems will all be abused, send in one person, then another. But it might deter some.
I just two people in the alcohol section of my local supermarket buying 3 cases full of wine - 18 bottles. Followed by a couple of boxes of beer. They didn't really have anything else in their trolley only alcohol. Who would need that kind of quantity of alcohol at the moment.

you don't see anything wrong with controlling what people do in their own homes , where they will be boozing.:eek:


on a more human level after today when construction closes a huge number of people will have no work and no social aspect to their lives - nowhere open and unable to visit others. Booze is one of the few fun pastimes left for some as they face in probably months of nothing. Taking leo's hint of end of march as he floating the governments plans.

niallo27

GreeBo wrote: »

This.
People don't seem to be able to grasp this. Nphet did of course, they were capable of watching and learning from other countries. They even told us it was coming, multiple times, if we didn't change our behaviour.

So what dont bother doing it, we warned you it would get bad, its your own fault, its your fault for getting the virus that we are out of ICU beds. I don't care if you followed all guidelines, there was no pint in us adding ICU capacity because we warned you it would get bad so now 100s will die but its totally your fault.

Silentcorner

Has there been any suggestion that the HSE is going to increase ICU capacity as soon as possible, or are we going to be facing these lockdowns next winter and beyond?

polesheep

Silentcorner wrote: »

Has there been any suggestion that the HSE is going to increase ICU capacity as soon as possible, or are we going to be facing these lockdowns next winter and beyond?

The HSE doesn't have the capacity to increase ICU. What it does have is capacity to temporarily bring extra ICU on stream. There are ICU trained people working in other areas who can be moved if necessary. Unfortunately, it means other operations have to be curtailed.

Responder XY

Responder XY wrote: »

This is a great article. Sums up the "debate" that is happening. Informed opinions sorely lacking all round and those trying to engage in sensible discussions are steamrolled by idiots on both sides who make arguments with zero substance.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/glaring-covid-19-data-gaps-derail-informed-debate-1.4452484

I posted this link earlier, at the time the headline was "Glaring Covid-19 data gaps derail informed debate".

Since then IT have decided to change that to "Gastropubs and restaurants cannot be blamed for all the regression in December"

Quite disapointing as detracts from the point of the article and effectivly takes a side.

Silentcorner

polesheep wrote: »

The HSE doesn't have the capacity to increase ICU. What it does have is capacity to temporarily bring extra ICU on stream. There are ICU trained people working in other areas who can be moved if necessary. Unfortunately, it means other operations have to be curtailed.

Well, we know from last summer that no matter what we do regarding restrictions from May to Sept there will be no pressure on ICU beds, but it will be difficult to swallow that 18 months on from the beginning of the these extreme lockdowns (which it will be by next Autumn/Winter) we will still be locking down because will our ICU capacity is stretched....no doubt still blaming the public for their actions while doing so!!

polesheep

Silentcorner wrote: »

Well, we know from last summer that no matter what we do regarding restrictions from May to Sept there will be no pressure on ICU beds, but it will be difficult to swallow that 18 months on from the beginning of the these extreme lockdowns (which it will be by next Autumn/Winter) we will still be locking down because will our ICU capacity is stretched....no doubt still blaming the public for their actions while doing so!!

To be fair, it's very difficult to bring on new ICU beds when you are struggling for staff in other areas. My wife (a nurse) is constantly being asked to work extra days.

Boggles

Tenzor07 wrote: »

All part of the tactics to have the public squabble among each other, to point fingers at their neighbours, to blame responsible law abiding citizens who went for a pint and a turkey dinner in the short window the restaurants were open...

Meanwhile diverting attention away from the lack of leadership and action of the state authorities...

So NPHET are behind the pandemic denial?

That certainly is a new angle.

Silentcorner

polesheep wrote: »

To be fair, it's very difficult to bring on new ICU beds when you are struggling for staff in other areas. My wife (a nurse) is constantly being asked to work extra days.

I can understand that, it ain't easy working in our health service at the best of times....well, if you are on the front line that is!!!

But these lockdowns are also extremely difficult for people not to mention the cost to our economy, but I can't see the public take lockdowns next winter given the timeframe and investment involved.

polesheep

Silentcorner wrote: »

I can understand that, it ain't easy working in our health service at the best of times....well, if you are on the front line that is!!!

But these lockdowns are also extremely difficult for people not to mention the cost to our economy, but I can't see the public take lockdowns next winter given the timeframe and investment involved.

The vaccine will solve that problem.

FintanMcluskey

polesheep wrote: »

The vaccine will solve that problem.

I’m reading conflicting opinions about that.

Is vaccination of the vulnerable enough?

The age group they are vaccinating 1st would be unlikely to ever receive ICU care

What’s the age of people currently in ICU? How far of vaccination are they?

polesheep

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I’m reading conflicting opinions about that.

Is vaccination of the vulnerable enough?

The age group they are vaccinating 1st would be unlikely to ever receive ICU care

What’s the age of people currently in ICU? How far of vaccination are they?

It's a long way to next winter, the vulnerable will be vaccinated before then. After that I think there will be a complete volte-face and we'll be told that the virus isn't really dangerous to the healthy population.

FintanMcluskey

polesheep wrote: »

It's a long way to next winter, the vulnerable will be vaccinated before then. After that I think there will be a complete volte-face and we'll be told that the virus isn't really dangerous to the healthy population.

Winter is just as close as last March was.

We are still using last March’s knowledge to mitigate this.

Let’s hope that will happen though.

Mr. Karate

Deleted User wrote: »

If the vaccines work as well as we hope, once the nursing homes are done the deaths should be cut in half.

Then when the elderly are done we should be near 0 deaths.

At that point, it will be hard to convince anyone that there is a crisis anymore and naturally the restrictions SHOULD disappear.

But we need to up our vaccine game big time.

They'll find some reason to keep this going as long as possible. Holohan isn't going to go quietly into the night.