Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

patnor1011

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

20 deaths yesterday. Are you going to tell the families it's nonsense?

Go, tell one of them it's all nonsense, all a big conspiracy.

I think I could count on one hand the number of seconds you would get.

According to CSO 85 people die every single day in Ireland. While this is an average number it is generally much higher in winter months than summer months.
Say that about 100 people died yesterday and 20 of them with covid.
What exactly is so tragic if 20 people die with covid in a state with a population of 5 million?

patnor1011

patnor1011 wrote: »

The vaccine is just another PR stunt it was just a way to explain and sell lockdowns when they started but the narrative shifted recently due to the simple fact that vaccines that are being offered now do not actually offer protection against contracting covid and the only thing one can expect is that they are supposed to provide some relief when you get infected. Which according to the latest studies is not guaranteed and even the opposite is suggested by some experts that vaccine may train your immune system to get to overdrive when a wild virus is encountered. This phenomenon is known and well documented with many other vaccines.

Liar

patnor1011

theballz wrote: »

Are you wearing a mask or a balaclava?

Can’t see how mask would prohibit sight.

You need just to read slowly and think for a while about what you just read.

He stated he wear glasses. If you put on a mask in this weather while you have glasses on your nose they instantly fog no matter how tight you put the nose wire around it. If you do not believe try it on yourself.

Then you will see exactly how mask will prohibit sight.

average_runner

patnor1011 wrote: »

According to CSO 85 people die every single day in Ireland. While this is an average number it is generally much higher in winter months than summer months.
Say that about 100 people died yesterday and 20 of them with covid.
What exactly is so tragic if 20 people die with covid in a state with a population of 5 million?

So 1/5 of them died from covid. Can u break.down the other 80 to compare?

average_runner

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I can’t allude to the UK but unless my colleagues are lying France and Germany are not under complete blanket restrictions.

In fact Ireland has continued to be Ireland’s most suppressed nation since last March

Something has gone wrong for Europe’s youngest nation

We arent Europe's youngest nation. Stop with that rubbish.


German lockdown

What are the current rules?
All nonessential shops and services remain closed.
Day care centers are closed, but parents can take paid holidays in order to look after their children.
Employers are encouraged to allow employees to work from home.
People are not allowed to drink alcohol in public.
Religious events in churches, synagogues and mosques may take place if they follow hygiene rules, but communal singing is not allowed.
Private meetings were restricted to a maximum of five people from two households. That has now been reduced.
Schools are largely closed and students are taught through distance learning.
Also cant travel.from a covid hotspot
Cant travel more than 15k without good reason.

Most of these were in over xmas and extended to end of jan at least

patnor1011

Deleted User wrote: »

Liar

Please be so kind and refrain from personal insults.
What exactly is a lie in my post?
Humor me.

average_runner

patnor1011 wrote: »

Please be so kind and refrain from personal insults.
What exactly is a lie in my post?
Humor me.

Please produce evidence of your post he/she referred to?

This post:
The vaccine is just another PR stunt it was just a way to explain and sell lockdowns when they started but the narrative shifted recently due to the simple fact that vaccines that are being offered now do not actually offer protection against contracting covid and the only thing one can expect is that they are supposed to provide some relief when you get infected. Which according to the latest studies is not guaranteed and even the opposite is suggested by some experts that vaccine may train your immune system to get to overdrive when a wild virus is encountered. This phenomenon is known and well documented with many other vaccines.

patnor1011

average_runner wrote: »

So 1/5 of them died from covid. Can u break.down the other 80 to compare?

Average is even in your nickname so I guess you do understand what average means.
31,154 people died in 2019. That puts it at 85.3 a day. Hard to say how many died exactly on 8th of january 2019 and we have no clue yet how many died on 8th of january 2021 but we know that 20 of those died with covid. Due to fact that majority if not all of those 20 were over 80 there are likely other factors which contributed to their death not just covid.

average_runner

patnor1011 wrote: »

Average is even in your nickname so I guess you do understand what average means.
31,154 people died in 2019. That puts it at 85.3 a day. Hard to say how many died exactly on 8th of january 2019 and we have no clue yet how many died on 8th of january 2021 but we know that 20 of those died with covid. Due to fact that majority if not all of those 20 were over 80 there are likely other factors which contributed to their death not just covid.

But would they of died this year if they didnt catch covid?

patnor1011

patnor1011 wrote: »

Please be so kind and refrain from personal insults.
What exactly is a lie in my post?
Humor me.

Sure, summary the falsehoods below, none of which matches reality

The vaccine is just another PR stunt it was just a way to explain and sell lockdowns when they started but the narrative shifted recently due to the simple fact that vaccines that are being offered now do not actually offer protection against contracting covid and the only thing one can expect is that they are supposed to provide some relief when you get infected. Which according to the latest studies is not guaranteed and even the opposite.

It’s all either deliberate, or a result of drinking the contrarian kool aid

patnor1011

average_runner wrote: »

Please produce evidence of your post he/she referred to?

This post:
The vaccine is just another PR stunt it was just a way to explain and sell lockdowns when they started but the narrative shifted recently due to the simple fact that vaccines that are being offered now do not actually offer protection against contracting covid and the only thing one can expect is that they are supposed to provide some relief when you get infected. Which according to the latest studies is not guaranteed and even the opposite is suggested by some experts that vaccine may train your immune system to get to overdrive when a wild virus is encountered. This phenomenon is known and well documented with many other vaccines.

Be a star and look it up yourself. It is all out there most of it reported even on this thread.
What is it with people that they cant look up stuff they are interested in themselves and require to be spoon fed?

zerosugarbuzz

patnor1011 wrote: »

Average is even in your nickname so I guess you do understand what average means.
31,154 people died in 2019. That puts it at 85.3 a day. Hard to say how many died exactly on 8th of january 2019 and we have no clue yet how many died on 8th of january 2021 but we know that 20 of those died with covid. Due to fact that majority if not all of those 20 were over 80 there are likely other factors which contributed to their death not just covid.

Exactly, no sign of the total deaths for 2020 yet! That will be a hard number to fudge.

patnor1011

average_runner wrote: »

But would they of died this year if they didnt catch covid?

Who knows? They might if they catch flu, cold, get pneumonia, missed hospital appointment, got run over by a car... Possibilities are endless why stick with just one of them?

CalamariFritti

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure, summary the falsehoods below, none of which matches reality



It’s all either deliberate, or a result of drinking the contrarian kool aid

What it says there about the vaccines is true. Not the thing about the PR stunt. Well it may be, I dont know.

But the vaccines in circulation this year will not stop you from getting corona virus. They are designed to stop people getting very sick from it. But not from getting it and it is assumed they will also not stop you from passing it on.

That is true and before you call people liars maybe you should brush up on your facts yourself?

patnor1011

patnor1011 wrote: »

Be a star and look it up yourself. It is all out there most of it reported even on this thread.
What is it with people that they cant look up stuff they are interested in themselves and require to be spoon fed?

Ok, I’ll bite, the vaccine is not a pr stunt. Millions have already received it and are developing immunity.
The narrative has not shifted on the vaccine preventing spread. It was known from the start that the primary endpoints of the studies was in relation the preventing disease. To achieve the level of confidence required to establish prevention of spread would have either required daily testing of those in the study or many more months of study. This evidence will come in time, but the manufacturers will not be able to make such a claim until evidence is established. This was known all along and the narrative has not change.
The last point on “vaccine driving immune system into overdrive” is well known as you claim, so perhaps not an outright lie, but definitely a deliberate misrepresentation as it is extremely rare, and occurs less frequently than with the pathogens they are designed to protect against.

Oh, and your 18 year old is not asked to wear a mask to protect her, but to protect those she comes in contact with

Captain_Crash

CalamariFritti wrote: »

But the vaccines in circulation this year will not stop you from getting corona virus. They are designed to stop people getting very sick from it. But not from getting it and it is assumed they will also not stop you from passing it on.

This is the same with all vaccines. They don’t stop a virus entering ones body, they just provide the body with the tools to fight it adequately. So if we keep testing very Tom Dick and Harry after the vaccine rollout, you’ll still find thousands of cases. Just wait till we see a positive test from a vaccinated person. Media will love it!

The irony is that around 80% of people are already showing the same reaction to the virus as the vaccine is designed to give.... no symptoms at all.

Necro

patnor1011 wrote: »

The vaccine is just another PR stunt it was just a way to explain and sell lockdowns when they started but the narrative shifted recently due to the simple fact that vaccines that are being offered now do not actually offer protection against contracting covid and the only thing one can expect is that they are supposed to provide some relief when you get infected. Which according to the latest studies is not guaranteed and even the opposite is suggested by some experts that vaccine may train your immune system to get to overdrive when a wild virus is encountered. This phenomenon is known and well documented with many other vaccines.

Mod:

Please direct this sort of discussion to the appropriate forum - ie - The Conspiracy Theory Forum

Forum Link

GiftofGab

Anybody have any suggestions for things to do?? I'm lucky enough to be working but spend the rest of the day scrolling through my phone. Really incredibly bored. Try to improve my cooking and go for a quick jog each day.

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Why not?

Is this post real? Why can’t we sustain lockdown?

Well... you can’t just borrow 20 billion every year, have 20%+ people unemployed and expect everyone to spend their lives within 5km of their house.

CalamariFritti

Captain_Crash wrote: »

This is the same with all vaccines. They don’t stop a virus entering ones body, they just provide the body with the tools to fight it adequately. So if we keep testing very Tom Dick and Harry after the vaccine rollout, you’ll still find thousands of cases. Just wait till we see a positive test from a vaccinated person. Media will love it!

The irony is that around 80% of people are already showing the same reaction to the virus as the vaccine is designed to give.... no symptoms at all.

Yes thats the way I understand it too. And I never said that to downplay the vaccine. The vaccines will work just fine (I hope) and we really need them to work too. All this goes without saying really.
Was simply saying what the other guy was saying was not a lie. Not the vaccine bit anyway.

patnor1011

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok, I’ll bite, the vaccine is not a pr stunt. Millions have already received it and are developing immunity.
The narrative has not shifted on the vaccine preventing spread. It was known from the start that the primary endpoints of the studies was in relation the preventing disease. To achieve the level of confidence required to establish prevention of spread would have either required daily testing of those in the study or many more months of study. This evidence will come in time, but the manufacturers will not be able to make such a claim until evidence is established. This was known all along and the narrative has not change.
The last point on “vaccine driving immune system into overdrive” is well known as you claim, so perhaps not an outright lie, but definitely a deliberate misrepresentation as it is extremely rare, and occurs less frequently than with the pathogens they are designed to protect against.

Oh, and your 18 year old is not asked to wear a mask to protect her, but to protect those she comes in contact with

This precisely sums up how it was possible for communists and socialists to rule for so long. Always the talk about some vague promises of a bright future which required fight and sacrifices for "common good" or "fellow comrade".

Explain to me how 18 year old healthy person is going to protect those around her? From what exactly?

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote: »

Is this post real? Why can’t we sustain lockdown?

Well... you can’t just borrow 20 billion every year, have 20%+ people unemployed and expect everyone to spend their lives within 5km of their house.

of course you cant, but thats not gonna happen!

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This thread has gradually become more and more disconnected from reality as facts overtake your rhetoric. I think a few are about a week away from storming the department of health dressed in the hide of a goat taken from the mcgillicuddy reeks

Any chance you could knock it off with the “This thread” rubbish followed by some kind of insult or implication that you are always right?

Cheers

CruelSummer

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Exactly, no sign of the total deaths for 2020 yet! That will be a hard number to fudge.

There’s plenty of data out there from 2020 deaths in European and U.K. countries. I already posted it on this thread. There are excess deaths due to Covid during each spike - March / April, Oct/Nov and Dec. The countries that locked down early and controlled their borders eg Norway, Denmark, had less excess deaths. Ireland up to now didn’t have high deaths either - excess was April. I don’t agree with lockdowns as an approach but this current situation is different to the others.
The U.K. in particular has a lot of excess deaths for 2020. Yesterday there were two children in ICU with Covid in a Dublin Children’s hospital. They’re probably patients of the hospital for something else. Does that mean it’s ok and like a normal flu season? Not in my opinion.
The community transmission of Covid at the moment in Ireland is completely out of control and has to be brought down. No point talking about hospital / nursing home protection at these levels. We’re lucky wards are staffed.

The vaccines will work simply because they have to. We have no other alternatives.

Countries can’t afford another year or few years of borrowing billions and people won’t be able to tolerate much more of this locking down anyways.

Even if the vaccines are not great, we can always be a bit more selective about what goes on a death cert and control the narrative a lot better.

The government have been keen to boost the numbers so far to keep the fear high. Once people are vaccinated, I think we can stop testing healthy people and hypochondriacs looking for tests.

We can also stop adding possible/probable etc to the deaths.

CruelSummer

patnor1011 wrote: »

This precisely sums up how it was possible for communists and socialists to rule for so long. Always the talk about some vague promises of a bright future which required fight and sacrifices for "common good" or "fellow comrade".

Explain to me how 18 year old healthy person is going to protect those around her? From what exactly?

It’s strange but when I read your posts they’re just like the Trump supporter posts on the Trump v Biden thread...’radical left are evil’ / ‘this is some master plan about 5G and Covid’ / ‘The vaccine that we need will not save lives, it will make people sicker which I’m posting with zero evidence as I don’t have any’
And then you criticise others for asking for evidence. If you’re making such claims, back them up.

_Kaiser_

JRant wrote: »

Sure, it's money for jam for doctors. Ring up with a migraine - that's a COVID test. Have an itchy sack - COVID test before you can set foot in the place.

Not all doctors are like this but it seems you need a negative test before some of them will let you set foot in the place.

That's a good point.

I've a cataract operation in a fortnight up north and have to go up the day before for a Covid test - I of course am not sick, haven't been sick, no symptoms and WFH/live alone so minimal risk anyway but what should be a less than an hour procedure is now 2 days.

At least they're putting me up in a fancy hotel for the night I suppose. I wonder could I get them to give me the vaccine while I was there? (I know that's a no but I'll be waiting a long time here anyway - just like I'm waiting 3 years for the surgery here and still no appointment. Quality service from the HSE)

patnor1011

patnor1011 wrote: »

This precisely sums up how it was possible for communists and socialists to rule for so long. Always the talk about some vague promises of a bright future which required fight and sacrifices for "common good" or "fellow comrade".

Explain to me how 18 year old healthy person is going to protect those around her? From what exactly?

Every 18 year old may not be healthy, some have the virus. They will generally have mild or no symptoms and may not even get tested so will never know. The people they encounter may have a different experience however. So it’s not much to ask people to wear a mask in the grand scheme of things.

A for the socialist and communist nonsense. I truly am embarrassed for you.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Any chance you could knock it off with the “This thread” rubbish followed by some kind of insult or implication that you are always right?

Cheers

There were great debates with the likes of growleaves here in the spring. Now it’s descended into groupthink with established thread “facts” which bare no resemblance to reality. There are valid points on the impact of restrictions and a valid debate on the point where the benefits of continued restrictions are not worth the consequences. However what the majority, not all, of those arguing this case have descended to is casedemic, from not with, dodgy pcr, fringe libertarian talking points. These theories have been comprehensively debunked.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

The government have been keen to boost the numbers so far to keep the fear high.

Did you just give out about people not taking you seriously and then you post that?

You are not exactly helping yourself are you?