Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

CIARAN_BOYLE

walus wrote: »

Is the COVID curve plotted only for cases that people are actually sick or all cases of COVID symptomatic and asymptomatic (I.e. including those who where admitted for say a broken leg and additionally tested positive for COVID, even though he/she had no symptoms)?

You don't get into icu with a broken leg.

Whatsisname

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

We have more people in ICU with covid at the moment in this country that get admitted with flu in a full flu season.

Then we get idiots saying covid is just the flu.

Then we have people saying only 2 people died in Waterford from coronavirus so far. Coronavirus isn't a big deal.

The poster is wrong or lying.

More than 2 have died from Coronavirus in Waterford and we have people praising for being factual and informative.

That's unacceptable ignorance or purposeful lying.

We are in the middle of a Pandemic and misinformation is not right to anyone.

I never said covid wasn't a big deal, I said I was shocked to see only 2 people died since it began after hundreds (500+ today so i imagine, thousands) of cases have occurred in Waterford, which naturally leads me to think "maybe this isn't as dangerous as we originally feared?"

Where I picked up my apparent lies, according to you, is from this post. Just because you don't like the information given doesn't mean it's "misinformation".

one armed dwarf

Lundstram wrote: »

Oh it's an issue now because you used to live there and know people there? Again, not relevant. No one cares. This is Ireland.

For f*ck sake.

This is the part that isn't relevant, because 'it is a different country' does not explain the crisis that London is in right now.

If geographical boundaries were relevant WRT the virus' capacity to cause havok then this would have never left Wuhan, Iranian hospitals wouldn't have been lined with bodybags. New York wouldn't have had to store their dead in freezers.

One would think that the fact that something as bad as this is happening so close to home would be a wake up call. Parochial head-in-the-sand thinking isn;t a valid argument

walus

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

You don't get into icu with a broken leg.

Correct. Missed the ICU piece. Thanks.

CIARAN_BOYLE

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

We have more people in ICU with covid at the moment in this country that get admitted with flu in a full flu season.

Then we get idiots saying covid is just the flu.

Then we have people saying only 2 people died in Waterford from coronavirus so far. Coronavirus isn't a big deal.

The poster is wrong or lying.

More than 2 have died from Coronavirus in Waterford and we have people praising for being factual and informative.

That's unacceptable ignorance or purposeful lying.

We are in the middle of a Pandemic and misinformation is not right to anyone.

To be fair, there are lots of people in hospital with Covid as opposed to of Covid.

If someone broke their leg and had flu, I assume we wouldn’t record them as in hospital with flu.

But if they have Covid, they’ll marked down as a Covid hospitalisation.

Penfailed

MOH wrote: »

Again, not for some.

Lockdown was for everyone. When lockdown ended, it was for everyone. Are you talking about pubs being closed? That's a restriction. That's not a lockdown.

Tork

Lundstram wrote: »

These are ten to a penny on Twitter. Posting a pic of marked faces from mask, look sad, look tired accompanied by attention seeking text. Maxiumum drama.

It's nothing but attention seeking and sympathy garnering.

If the job is too tough for them then they should quit.

Maybe they all should. Then let's see what people like you have to say about it.

froog

Lundstram wrote: »

These are ten to a penny on Twitter. Posting a pic of marked faces from mask, look sad, look tired accompanied by attention seeking text. Maxiumum drama.

It's nothing but attention seeking and sympathy garnering.

If the job is too tough for them then they should quit.

wow. just wow.

a new low.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Whatsisname wrote: »

I never said covid wasn't a big deal, I said I was shocked to see only 2 people died since it began after hundreds (500+ today so i imagine, thousands) of cases have occurred in Waterford, which naturally leads me to think "maybe this isn't as dangerous as we originally feared?"

Where I picked up my apparent lies, according to you, is from this post. Just because you don't like the information given doesn't mean it's "misinformation".

Old data. It counts as misinformation because it's so old.

Almost as many cases in Waterford in the last 14 days as there had been at the time that dataset was assembled.

Tork

Tork wrote: »

Maybe they all should. Then let's see what people like you have to say about it.

They won’t though. Because there are plenty of nurses that know what the job entails and are prepared to do it without attention seeking on social media.

Tork

Deleted User wrote: »

They won’t though. Because there are plenty of nurses that know what the job entails and are prepared to do it without attention seeking on social media.

Oh for crying out loud. Covid didn't exist when they trained to be medics. It's all well and good for you to throw stones, seeing as you clearly have a lot of time on your hands to be posting on these forums.

Tork

Tork wrote: »

Oh for crying out loud. Covid didn't exist when they trained to be medics. It's all well and good for you to throw stones, seeing as you clearly have a lot of time on your hands to be posting on these forums.

Over 20% of the workforce are now unemployed and surviving on 350 a week or less with mortgages and bills to pay.

I’m sorry a nurse had a hard shift.

Irish Steve

funnydoggy wrote: »

When this is all over or at a manageable level, I hope to f*ck people start voting this nepotism, jobs for the boys, mismanagement bullshít out. We're not the likes of the USA or Brazil but jaysus we love our corruption except in Ireland, it's Corruption Lite, or being a chancer. We then have state funded shows making light of it, or shows dedicated to asking soft questions and no real change. Horrible.

And when someone comes up with an idea that would change the culture and do away with some of these issues, guess what happens? There's a revolt and people marching in protest, and the spinless politicians back down from doing what needs to be done to change things for the better.

Examples:-

Electronic voting, The excuse for throwing it out was that there was a risk of errors, the real reason was the instant result denied the publicity that the possible losers live for, and the massive cost of the prolonged count and recounts.

Public service card. All sorts of angst about "Data protection", all of which could have been dealt with. Imagine the advantage of having one card that covers things like social welfare, medical cards, driving licences, revenue, free travel entitlements, hospital records, passport card, library services , maybe even things like Leap cards.

Instead, we have a multitude of state services, duplicating probably 80% of the information in each separate system, which makes massive numbers of jobs for state employees, but does nothing to improve the quality of the service they provide.

Health services. Massive numbers of accountants in public hospitals making sure that VHI etc pay the right fees for all the swabs, and other services that private patients use, and massive numbers of people in places like VHI making sure they've not been overcharged for those service. Imagine if we had one system that everyone contributed to that meant we don't have huge numbers of unnecessary administrators doing jobs that are unrelated to the actual provision of Health services.

Water and waste water. A historic shambles based on centuries old boundaries that have zero relationship to the geography of the area they serve, and huge numbers of highly paid people in every local authority that would not be needed if the service had been properly centralised. We can all remember the nightmare of the mess made about water charges, if there hadn't been that whole mess, maybe the concept of one water service organisation might have actually been made to work the way it still needs to.

HSE. Doomed to fail from day 1, because merging 9 health boards without massivly reducing the overall numbers was never going to work, too many people at administrative levels chasing too little work, because the state system can't reduce the numbers.

Local authorities. Do counties with a population of less than 100,000 (some less than 40,000) people really need a full council structure, with chief executives, human resources, legal, financial and all the other highly paid management structures, or would it be more cost effective to have more regionally based structures that reflect more appropriately the needs of providing the service, rather than hanging on to centuries old feudal structures that cost a fortune without providing the level of service that is needed by the people of the country. Way too many very highly paid people doing way less than the same level of people in places like Dublin, Cork and some of the other larger areas.

Much of what's being done by state services has not changed with the times, and there's a large cohort of people determined to keep it that way, as they fear change, and don't want to change in the ways that are needed.

Those are the sorts of questions that need to be being asked of the people making the decisions, but the chances of real pressure being brought to bear on them is unfortunately very low.

To keep it on topic, imagine how easy track and trace, or vaccination logging would have been if we already had a properly functioning national medical database tied into the PRSI number. There's plenty more examples of how a properly structured system could have made the last 12 months a lot easier to manage.

Boggles

Lundstram wrote: »

"I don't agree with you lot so you are loons"

Great arguement there

Lundstram wrote: »

Not relevant, different country, no one cares.

:pac:

Birdie Num Num

walus wrote: »

Let’s put things into context. Last year air pollution killed more than twice the number of people who died with/of COVID. Yet we don’t have driving bans and gardai issuing tickets for idling our motors for no reason. Why is that you think?
There is tens if not hundreds of things out there that are far more dangerous than COVID. Period. Yet we changed the way we live and work, crashed the economy as the governments around the world subscribed to the lockdown-and-vaccine franchise that they were sold on.

This whole story is an example of a sunk cost fallacy of the highest order.

"Let's put this into context" ...What sort of nonsense, warped context is that? Are you suggesting that all deaths due to air pollution are from people driving cars and just turning over their engines?

Where do you stand on the grounding of an entire fleet of boeing 737 max airplanes? Presumably you agree that it was a ridiculous decision considering out of approximately half a million flights there was only 2 fatal crashes. And a conservative guess would suggest less than .0007% passenger fatalities due to crashes. Far less dangerous than Covid.

patnor1011

Penfailed wrote: »

You could say the same about the issue you have with the vaccines. Ill affects are 'rare'. Pretty much translates to no issue.

That is taken out of context. I mentioned several things that was just one of them.
I have no issue with vaccines and I can assure you I have taken much more of them than any poster here since where I come from vaccines are mandatory and people are vaccinated for some more things like TBC for example which is not a case here anymore.
Even self-proclaimed vaccine expert everyone like to cite every time he talk about issue stated that we need to wait for second or even third generation of covid vaccine to be effective.
Everyone now is giving out that we do not vaccinate faster that other countries do better job than HSE and how we will suffer because of that.
With current vaccine as long as old and vulnerable people who want to get it are vaccinated - which should be pretty soon we will be grand.

Vaccine is not an end to lockdowns and restrictions and everyone here already know that.

Penfailed

patnor1011 wrote: »

Vaccine is not an end to lockdowns and restrictions and everyone here already know that.

How do you work that out? Surely once the majority of people are vaccinated, there's no need for lockdowns or restrictions?

patnor1011

almostover wrote: »

If 20 people died of COVID yesterday and 85 people die on average daily the COVID is responsible for approx. one fifth of all deaths. Can you not see why COVID is a serious public health concern?

...died with covid yesterday...
not of covid

suicide_circus

Penfailed wrote: »

How do you work that out? Surely once the majority of people are vaccinated, there's no need for lockdowns or restrictions?

I suppose i'll believe it when i see it.

We still dont know how the vaccines will perform in practice. And if this forum and surveys are to be believed, the majority of people really really like the lockdown lifestyle.

Tork

What survey is this, pray tell?

jams100

Whilst I wouldnt attend a lockdown protest or dont really support them i do think arresting people for going to a protest is, well, questionable?

Can police etc. now choose what is an acceptable protest or not? If this was a black lives matter protest would they arrest people?

I know alot of people will support the police but as much as I disagree with these protests I don't agree that people should be arrested...what happens if in a year or twos time if we still haven't got the virus under control (unlikely, I know) would people still not be allowed protest?

patnor1011

froog wrote: »

does air pollution completely overload health systems in a matter of weeks if left unchecked?

No but flu does. Pretty much every year. Then stuff like winter vomiting bug does it too. Pretty sure some other stuff does it too.
Not to mention that it is fairly hard to overload health system which is overloaded for the last 15 years anyway.
Our health system operate in near collapse regime for so long that some covid would not even be noticed to be honest with you.

Water2021

Is that Waterford stat correct

Only 2 have died from that City?

Mr. Karate

Water2021 wrote: »

Is that Waterford stat correct

Only 2 have died from that City?

So deadly we need to lockdown the whole year and this year as well. :rolleyes:

If RTE were only able to tell us who actually died from this [not died from something else while having this virus, but will be counted as a death from this virus] then this would have been over months ago. We wouldn't be wearing masks and we wouldn't be standing on social distancing markers.

Donald Trump

I have a question. Do they have stats on the average number of people in a covid chain of infection from say last March to today? What would it be? 20/30/40?

Every person who catches it now has caught it at the end of the chain. I am sure that in each of those chains, there is at least one person who caught it and passed it on by doing something which wasn't really necessary, but that person thought that they were too special to follow rules or guidelines.

What is the relevance? Well if that one person in December/November/../March had been a little less selfish then that particular chain would have stopped there.

Of course there are people who did everything they could and still caught it. I am not saying everyone who caught it did that. I am just saying that there is probably at least one in each chain who could have avoided it and broke that chain. If you were really well behaved and caught it, there was probably someone else in your chain who could have stopped it before you by thinking a little more

So don't be that person in the chain which results in someone having life changing consequences next Feb or March. You'd probably never know the person and you'd never meet them. That doesn't matter. The people who took risks and downplayed things are equally as culpable.


I'm interested to know the number. Can the boffins tell how many people a chain has been through? Or at least estimate it?

Penfailed

Mr. Karate wrote: »

So deadly we need to lockdown the whole year and this year as well. :rolleyes:

Except we didn't and we won't. Quit with the hysteria.

bb1234567

Mr. Karate wrote: »

So deadly we need to lockdown the whole year and this year as well. :rolleyes:

If RTE were only able to tell us who actually died from this [not died from something else while having this virus, but will be counted as a death from this virus] then this would have been over months ago. We wouldn't be wearing masks and we wouldn't be standing on social distancing markers.

What do you mean? It's common knowledge by now that almost everybody who dies of COVID has an underlying condition and is elderly, news reports are regularly released about it, there are countless studies on the risks and age profile of victims and reams of reports and data from across the world too. Despite a vast majority of people being aware of this, restrictions continue, as most of us know many people within that risk category as it compromises about 15% of the population.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/over-93-of-people-who-died-with-covid-19-had-underlying-condition-cso-1.4402354
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40057658.html

Donald Trump

Mr. Karate wrote: »

So deadly we need to lockdown the whole year and this year as well. :rolleyes:

If RTE were only able to tell us who actually died from this [not died from something else while having this virus, but will be counted as a death from this virus] then this would have been over months ago. We wouldn't be wearing masks and we wouldn't be standing on social distancing markers.

If you don't care about risks of the virus then find an opportunity to volunteer to do some tasks/jobs that have a high risk of infection.


Once you catch it once, sure then you can't catch it again anyway.




Although, btw, and hate to have to point this out to you, you might have an "underlying condition" which might only become apparent after you catch the virus!

Jimi H

Penfailed wrote: »

How do you work that out? Surely once the majority of people are vaccinated, there's no need for lockdowns or restrictions?

There was a guy from WHO on Newstalk this week. He said after the vaccinations have been rolled out there will be some normality but not as we were used to before or something along those lines. I’d love if they indicated what that meant. If vaccination doesn’t prevent transmission and efficacy is 90-95% it might still leave a large number of vulnerable people?

FintanMcluskey

Jimi H wrote: »

There was a guy from WHO on Newstalk this week. He said after the vaccinations have been rolled out there will be some normality but not as we were used to before or something along those lines. I’d love if they indicated what that meant. If vaccination doesn’t prevent transmission and efficacy is 90-95% it might still leave a large number of vulnerable people?

Heard that said alright.

Some are of the opinion once we are vaccinated normality will resume

Not if we continue using the same metrics for the suppression of normality in the first place