Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

bb1234567

bb1234567 wrote: »

[/B]
And what about the places where the excess deaths show that it killed a lot of people?
If excess deaths were high in Ireland, you'd be claiming lockdown did that.

So seeing as we know lockdowns don't cause high excess deaths as we reported normal mortality rates in lockdown central (Ireland) in 2020, it would appear then that it was COVID which caused the highest deaths since records began in the USA https://www.foxnews.com/health/us-deaths-in-2020-top-3-million-by-far-most-ever-counted
And the highest deaths since Spanish flu in the UK. https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-britain-deaths-idUKKBN29B2R0?edition-redirect=uk

So then that leads us to the conclusion Ireland has not had anywhere near as widespread transmission of the virus as UK or USA have. Wouldn't you agree? Or what's the story with the theory then on that?

Ah... the land of the free...

Where they riot, protest, shoot each other, have a mental president and huge problems with obesity.
Wouldn’t bother reading too much into that.

Can’t say I’ve followed the situation in UK too closely.

I have looked closely at Sweden. No lockdown for months and a normal year of deaths.

acequion

Dempo1 wrote: »

I'm guessing NPHET won't be mentioning how successful we've been at surpressing the virus, I recall just before Christmas, we were being reminded how well we were doing, number 1 in the European charts etc

Not anymore, a shameful state of affairs really

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ireland-has-worst-coronavirus-infection-rate-in-europe-1062214.html

Just what exactly is shameful? And what's with this ridiculous "number 1 in the European charts" nonsense as if this was all some European Xfactor!

Are there people who really believe that things are so bad because "we all partied" at xmas? Or is that what the zealots want us to believe? So they can now publically flog anyone who ate xmas dinner with granny!

It's quite obvious to anyone with a brain that this massive surge is due to much more than xmas socialising. The highly contagious Uk variant is accountable for a quarter of cases and I would imagine the South African variant is playing a part. That these variants happened and have spread is highly regrettable and just more of the lousy luck that is this whole horrible episode. But it's not a cause for shame and certainly not something to flog people for.

As for xmas socialising, did people go a bit mad? Probably. But doubtful they did it in sufficient numbers to cause such a surge. And I agree with the people who have claimed here all along that restrictions in Ireland have been too strict. With more balance and creativity this situation could have been handled in such a way that people didn't feel the need to go so mad at xmas, that is those who did. The Govt have made such a shambles of this whole thing that they have lost a lot of people who were on board before. And I very much support the current restrictions because this thing is clearly out of control and much more contagious than before. And I really hope that we get these numbers back under control because if we don't we'll never be rid of these bloody restrictions.

But the most repugnant aspect of this whole thing is the sheer amount of finger wagging, people hating, people blaming fanatics who are unfortunately all over the Internet.

patnor1011

Graham wrote: »

In no small part because we implemented restrictions before our health services were overrun.

With all due respect, our health service was overrun and near collapse for over 15 years if not more.

Graham

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

What can’t happen here?

Overwhelmed health services, increasing daily deaths, the pandemic in general.

Is it fear that makes you want to downplay it, or something else?

Captain_Crash

Graham wrote: »

It's bizarre, this pretence that it can't/won't happen here.

I don't believe it's stupidity, is it fear?

The only time I’ve seen someone mentioning something “can't/won't happen here” is another Lombardy type situation. Which I agree with, that won’t happen here.

Graham

because......

one armed dwarf

Deleted User wrote: »

Can’t say I’ve followed the situation in UK too closely.

Well it's quite bleak, unfortunately

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1347200811303055364?s=20

No drama merchants or doom-mongerers, just data about what's actually happening right now.

FintanMcluskey

Graham wrote: »

Overwhelmed health services, increasing daily deaths, the pandemic in general.

Is it fear that makes you want to downplay it, or something else?

Bit of a broad argument so despite alluding to something specific in the OP.

Captain_Crash

Graham wrote: »

because......

Demographics, knowledge, culture and population density won’t allow it! If it was ever going to happen here it would have done so in March! It didn’t here or anywhere else! Lombardy has a globally unique age profile and unusually large number of centurions! All of which played a vital to what we saw there!

Graham

You'd make a better point if infections/deaths weren't reaching record numbers and increasing dramatically in countries across the world.

Lundstram

Lundstram wrote: »

Quite incredible to think this woman is head of the vaccine taskforce but hasn't a clue how many has been done so far, not even a ball-park figure.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1348362085965684740

The most important thing is we have daily numbers for dickhead Ewan McKenna, and not that we are actually moving ahead of schedule in getting nursing homes completed

Captain_Crash

Graham wrote: »

You'd make a better point if infections/deaths weren't reaching record numbers and increasing dramatically in countries across the world.

Infections and deaths will never decrease.. if 1000 people died today, that number won’t be less tomorrow so deaths will always be rising! Interestingly tho, deaths are not rising in line with infections.

That is to say, up until October we had around 60K cases and 2k deaths but in the last two weeks alone we’ve had 60K cases and a small number of deaths! So yes deaths are increasing but some context is needed!

one armed dwarf

one armed dwarf wrote: »

Well it's quite bleak, unfortunately

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1347200811303055364?s=20

No drama merchants or doom-mongerers, just data about what's actually happening right now.

It’s pointless, it’s unadulterated fact, therefore the brains trust on this thread will ignore

showpony1

any chance of haircuts soon

Lundstram

showpony1 wrote: »

any chance of haircuts soon

Budget 2022 is in October.

Spanishpoint

It will be grand

Micky 32

Lundstram wrote: »

Budget 2022 is in October.

That’s the short and curlies haircut, i think he means the hair on top

normanoffside

Graham wrote: »

because vaccinations don't generally require oxygen?

No, but they do require a well organised health system to administer them and one that can’t even keep enough oxygen in stock does not inspire confidence.

Graham

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Infections and deaths will never decrease.

Daily infections/deaths will.

I'm sure you didn't really need that pointing out to you. :rolleyes:

Captain_Crash

Graham wrote: »

Daily infections/deaths will.

I'm sure you didn't really need that pointing out to you. :rolleyes:

We’ve had x amount of deaths... that number will never decrease! The rate of people dying will... but it’s nothing like it was back in March anyway and isn’t rising at any concerning rate!

Back to my point, Lombardy won’t happen here! If it does feel free to quote this post and I’ll hold my hands up and admit I was mistaken.

AndrewJRenko

Sure it's only the flu

https://twitter.com/juneshannon/status/1348398576951586817?s=19

Graham

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Back to my point, Lombardy won’t happen here!

I actually agree with you here, it's not likely.

As I've said previously, in no small part because of the restrictions.

JeffKenna

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Sure it's only the flu

https://twitter.com/juneshannon/status/1348398576951586817?s=19

My grandmother broke her hip a few years ago and was on a trolly in a corridor for 48 hours. The health service is a shambles, I don't think covid is fully to blame.

bb1234567

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah... the land of the free...

Where they riot, protest, shoot each other, have a mental president and huge problems with obesity.
Wouldn’t bother reading too much into that.

Can’t say I’ve followed the situation in UK too closely.

I have looked closely at Sweden. No lockdown for months and a normal year of deaths.

Sweden who shat their pants when faced with the prospect of another wave like the last after wrongly believing that much of the population has already become immune and now have the harshest restrictions in Scandinavia in place?

Anyway here's another few examples for you to make excuses for
Italy
https://thelocal.it/20201216/italy-records-highest-annual-death-toll-since-world-war-two?fbclid=IwAR1Urljxvp68-dt2kIw5xWBLlVjc4Ccf7ybrXoVYTSivVfT-VbKAQ_-I2Qc
Netherlands
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/netherlands-death-rate-in-2020-highest-since-wwii/2092465
Belgium
https://brusselstimes.com/belgium/145376/2020-already-belgiums-deadliest-year-since-ww2-coronavirus-epidemic-second-world-war-patrick-deboosere-vub-excess-mortality-hong-kong-flu-statbel-april-november/
France
https://euronews.com/2020/12/18/france-passes-60-000-covid-19-deaths-as-2020-becomes-its-deadliest-year
Poland
https://notesfrompoland.com/2021/01/04/poland-recorded-more-deaths-in-2020-than-any-year-since-wwii/

I know you'll never change your mind , but maybe you'll start to understand a bit better why much of the world indulged in this psychosis you just can't get your head around

AndrewJRenko

JeffKenna wrote: »

My grandmother broke her hip a few years ago and was on a trolly in a corridor for 48 hours. The health service is a shambles, I don't think covid is fully to blame.

Though she wasn't held in an ambulance for hours because the corridor was already full of trolleys, right?

JeffKenna

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Though she wasn't held in an ambulance for hours because the corridor was already full of trolleys, right?

They can't leave them into the corridor because it's covid. The corridors aren't full.

Graham

JeffKenna wrote: »

My grandmother broke her hip a few years ago and was on a trolly in a corridor for 48 hours. The health service is a shambles, I don't think covid is fully to blame.

Not quite seeing the connect.

Are you saying we should or shouldn't overwhelm the health services because of your grannies hip experience?

If you're suggesting our health services were already under pressure, surely we should do everything we can to limit that during a pandemic

JeffKenna

Graham wrote: »

Not quite seeing the connect.

Are you saying we should or shouldn't overwhelm the health services because of your grannies hip experience?

If you're suggesting our health services were already under pressure, surely we should do everything we can to limit that during a pandemic

I'm saying neither of those things. I'm saying the health service is a shambles and has been with years. The poster linked an article about 7 patients being treated in an ambulance, far worse has happened to patients.

bb1234567

bb1234567 wrote: »

Sweden who shat their pants when faced with the prospect of another wave like the last after wrongly believing that much of the population has already become immune and now have the harshest restrictions in Scandinavia in place?

Anyway here's another few examples for you to make excuses for
Italy
https://thelocal.it/20201216/italy-records-highest-annual-death-toll-since-world-war-two?fbclid=IwAR1Urljxvp68-dt2kIw5xWBLlVjc4Ccf7ybrXoVYTSivVfT-VbKAQ_-I2Qc
Netherlands
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/netherlands-death-rate-in-2020-highest-since-wwii/2092465
Belgium
https://brusselstimes.com/belgium/145376/2020-already-belgiums-deadliest-year-since-ww2-coronavirus-epidemic-second-world-war-patrick-deboosere-vub-excess-mortality-hong-kong-flu-statbel-april-november/
France
https://euronews.com/2020/12/18/france-passes-60-000-covid-19-deaths-as-2020-becomes-its-deadliest-year
Poland
https://notesfrompoland.com/2021/01/04/poland-recorded-more-deaths-in-2020-than-any-year-since-wwii/

I know you'll never change your mind , but maybe you'll start to understand a bit better why much of the world indulged in this psychosis you just can't get your head around

Maybe they can ask the Swedes what they done to avoid excess deaths.

Graham

JeffKenna wrote: »

I'm saying neither of those things. I'm saying the health service is a shambles and has been with years. The poster linked an article about 7 patients being treated in an ambulance, far worse has happened to patients.

Not after cancelling/delaying as many scheduled admissions as possible it hasn't.