Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

bb1234567

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe they can ask the Swedes what they done to avoid excess deaths.

Why would we when Ireland's are much lower?

Tork

If Sweden's strategy had worked, wouldn't every country in the world have adopted it by now?

bb1234567

Tork wrote: »

If Sweden's strategy had worked, wouldn't every country in the world have adapted it by now?

Some places tried..South Dakota in the US had no restrictions at all, excess deaths are equivalent to what would be about 10,000 in an Irish context, and 35,000 people hospitalised over the span of 3 months. Don't think Irish healthcare would stand up, SD has much higher hospital capacity per capita. Maybe some people think that would be worth the quality of life that the healthier people of South Dakota enjoyed during that time, I suppose.

https://covidtracking.com/data/state/south-dakota
Still seeing an average of what would be 85 deaths daily in Ireland however, 6 weeks after their peak has passed.
So yeh, just how did Sweden do it? It seems the key was a population who did take it seriously, despite the government not implementing rules to dictate their lives(of course we are talking in the earlier months of the pandemic strictly here). Because South Dakota is what COVID looks like when most of the population don't give fcuk and don't even believe COVID is real.

Tork

It went so well in Sweden, they had to bring in emergency laws on Friday. Even allowing for all the nursing home deaths at the start (and them just giving palliative care to the old dears, rather than trying to save them), their death rate has been horrendous. People here are giving out like hell about the non questioning of NPHET but the same thing was going on in Sweden. Asking questions of Tegnell's strategy was a big no no.

Kermit.de.frog

Telegraph reporting UK is considering even tougher restrictions on top of what is now in place.

No where is messing around...

patnor1011

Some virologists think the opposite.

A top virologist and pathologist in Canada told government officials that the coronavirus pandemic is, “the greatest hoax ever perpretrated on an unsuspecting public,” and that, “paper masks and fabric masks are simply virtue signaling.”

“I might know a little bit about all this,” he clarifies, as Dr. Roger Hodkinson points out his position as CEO of Western Medical Assessments, a Canadian biotechnology company which manufactures Covid tests.


“Positive test results do not, underlined in neon, mean a clinical infection,” he adds, which echoes the experience of Tesla CEO Elon Musk who recently made headlines after receiving two positive and two negative tests in one day.

Hodkinson believes that all asymptomatic Covid testing should stop because it is “driving public hysteria” around the virus which has led to life-ruining lock downs and other draconian restrictions on citizens.

When it comes to masks, Hodkinson says they are, “utterly useless. There is no evidence base for their effectiveness whatsoever.” “Social distancing is [also] useless,” he posits, “because Covid is spread by aerosols which travel 30 meters or so before landing.”

Science is often conflicting in regard to the effectiveness of mask wearing. Some studies find that they work very well, others that they don’t, and some even suggest that the virus is evolving to evade mask wearing altogether.

“They’re not even worn effectively most of the time. It’s utterly ridiculous. Seeing these unfortunate, uneducated people – I’m not saying that in a pejorative sense – seeing these people walking around like lemmings obeying without any knowledge base to put the mask on their face.” – Dr. Roger Hodkinson

“There is utterly unfounded public hysteria driven by the media and politicians,” says the doctor, amid a second push for wider lock downs, mandatory masks, enforced social distancing, and curfews.

“[Hodkinson] received his general medical degrees from Cambridge University in the UK (M.A., M.B., B. Chir.) where he was a scholar at Corpus Christi College,” explains MedMalDoctors, a medical-oriented law firm run by Dr. Hodkinson.

“Following a residency at the University of British Columbia he became a Royal College certified general pathologist (FRCPC) and also a Fellow of the College of American Pathologists (FCAP).

He is in good Standing with the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Alberta, and has been recognized by the Court of Queen’s Bench in Alberta as an expert in pathology.”

In order to halt the pandemic, Hodkinson believes that older and more vulnerable people need to be protected while noting that for people under the age of 65 in Alberta, Canada, only “one in three hundred thousand” have died. Locking down entire economies is “outrageous” in his view, for what has been tantamount to “just another bad flu” for those younger demographics.

“It’s politics playing medicine, and that’s a very dangerous game,” he concludes.“I’m absolutely outraged that this has reached this level. It should all stop tomorrow.”

https://www.wakingtimes.com/leading-virologist-says-coronavirus-pandemic-is-the-greatest-hoax-ever-perpetrated-on-an-unsuspecting-public/

bb1234567

patnor1011 wrote: »

Some virologists think the opposite.

A top virologist and pathologist in Canada told government officials that the coronavirus pandemic is, “the greatest hoax ever perpretrated on an unsuspecting public,” and that, “paper masks and fabric masks are simply virtue signaling.”

“I might know a little bit about all this,” he clarifies, as Dr. Roger Hodkinson points out his position as CEO of Western Medical Assessments, a Canadian biotechnology company which manufactures Covid tests.


“Positive test results do not, underlined in neon, mean a clinical infection,” he adds, which echoes the experience of Tesla CEO Elon Musk who recently made headlines after receiving two positive and two negative tests in one day.

Hodkinson believes that all asymptomatic Covid testing should stop because it is “driving public hysteria” around the virus which has led to life-ruining lock downs and other draconian restrictions on citizens.

When it comes to masks, Hodkinson says they are, “utterly useless. There is no evidence base for their effectiveness whatsoever.” “Social distancing is [also] useless,” he posits, “because Covid is spread by aerosols which travel 30 meters or so before landing.”

Science is often conflicting in regard to the effectiveness of mask wearing. Some studies find that they work very well, others that they don’t, and some even suggest that the virus is evolving to evade mask wearing altogether.

“They’re not even worn effectively most of the time. It’s utterly ridiculous. Seeing these unfortunate, uneducated people – I’m not saying that in a pejorative sense – seeing these people walking around like lemmings obeying without any knowledge base to put the mask on their face.” – Dr. Roger Hodkinson

“There is utterly unfounded public hysteria driven by the media and politicians,” says the doctor, amid a second push for wider lock downs, mandatory masks, enforced social distancing, and curfews.

“[Hodkinson] received his general medical degrees from Cambridge University in the UK (M.A., M.B., B. Chir.) where he was a scholar at Corpus Christi College,” explains MedMalDoctors, a medical-oriented law firm run by Dr. Hodkinson.

“Following a residency at the University of British Columbia he became a Royal College certified general pathologist (FRCPC) and also a Fellow of the College of American Pathologists (FCAP).

He is in good Standing with the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Alberta, and has been recognized by the Court of Queen’s Bench in Alberta as an expert in pathology.”

In order to halt the pandemic, Hodkinson believes that older and more vulnerable people need to be protected while noting that for people under the age of 65 in Alberta, Canada, only “one in three hundred thousand” have died. Locking down entire economies is “outrageous” in his view, for what has been tantamount to “just another bad flu” for those younger demographics.

“It’s politics playing medicine, and that’s a very dangerous game,” he concludes.“I’m absolutely outraged that this has reached this level. It should all stop tomorrow.”

https://www.wakingtimes.com/leading-virologist-says-coronavirus-pandemic-is-the-greatest-hoax-ever-perpetrated-on-an-unsuspecting-public/

https://www.boomlive.in/world/dr-roger-hodkinson-makes-false-claims-to-state-covid-19-is-a-hoax-10962

The Alberta Medical Association tweeted that "the Alberta Section of Laboratory Physicians does not share any of the views of the individual in question," who is a pathologist. The group added that it "endorses the use of masks, hand washing and physical distancing along with all other public health measures to prevent the spread of COVID-19." The Royal College, where Hodkinson was certified, also distanced itself from the statements of Hodkinson. "The Royal College strongly supports all public health advice given by the Chief Public Health Officer of Canada, including recommendations to practice physical distancing and to wear masks to help prevent Covid-19 transmission," it said in a statement.

https://www.boomlive.in/world/dr-roger-hodkinson-makes-false-claims-to-state-covid-19-is-a-hoax-10962

We can confirm that Dr. Roger Hodkinson was certified by the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada as a general pathologist in 1976.

The Royal College believes COVID-19 presents a serious threat to the health of Canadians. The Royal College strongly supports all public health advice given by the Chief Public Health Officer of Canada, including recommendations to practise physical distancing and to wear masks to help prevent COVID-19 transmission. We are very appreciative of the dedication and commitment of our Royal College Fellows, residents and all front-line health care workers in the fight against COVID-19.

Re: public comments made recently by a pathologist that may leave an impression to the contrary, the Alberta Section of Laboratory Physicians does not share any of the views of the individual in question.

The #Alberta Section of Laboratory Physicians endorses the use of masks, hand washing and physical distancing along with all other public health measures to prevent the spread of #COVID19.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dr-roger-hodkinson-covid-hoax/
Easy to find a quack, it's how people react to what they say that is important, and if anyone of similar professional standing agrees, which they don't, if several prominent academic groups and medical associations are actively publishing statements to distance themselves from him what does that say?

Graces7

caveat emptor wrote: »

Hyperbole much? Twice this week I've heard of two 80 year olds winning the lottery and investing it wisely.

Thank you. And I know many of my age ( nearly 80 and older) living without problems within the restrictions and with the stalwart support of community support groups.

Actually there is more support and assistance now than there was pre-covid . The way communities have rallied is reassuring.
And that includes good neighbours, which we can all be to each other.

Graces7

Boggles wrote: »

They have gone from living full independent lives with loving families, to being put into care homes in the middle of pandemic to die in the space of 10 months without any ailments or injuries?

That is very hard believe.

I don't actually believe it.

Now you have to right to tell us whatever stories want, I have the right not to believe them.

And if it were true? (which I do not believe) What an indictment of local communities and families. it is up to all and each of us to keep an eye on old and ill folk in our communities; to check and visit and make sure they are getting supplies and a bit of company. They call it " community spirit. " I hope those alleging these things are checking on old folk in their area?

patnor1011

patnor1011 wrote: »

Some virologists think the opposite.

A top virologist and pathologist in Canada told government officials that the coronavirus pandemic is, “the greatest hoax ever perpretrated on an unsuspecting public,” and that, “paper masks and fabric masks are simply virtue signaling.”

“I might know a little bit about all this,” he clarifies, as Dr. Roger Hodkinson points out his position as CEO of Western Medical Assessments, a Canadian biotechnology company which manufactures Covid tests.


“Positive test results do not, underlined in neon, mean a clinical infection,” he adds, which echoes the experience of Tesla CEO Elon Musk who recently made headlines after receiving two positive and two negative tests in one day.

Hodkinson believes that all asymptomatic Covid testing should stop because it is “driving public hysteria” around the virus which has led to life-ruining lock downs and other draconian restrictions on citizens.

When it comes to masks, Hodkinson says they are, “utterly useless. There is no evidence base for their effectiveness whatsoever.” “Social distancing is [also] useless,” he posits, “because Covid is spread by aerosols which travel 30 meters or so before landing.”

Science is often conflicting in regard to the effectiveness of mask wearing. Some studies find that they work very well, others that they don’t, and some even suggest that the virus is evolving to evade mask wearing altogether.

“They’re not even worn effectively most of the time. It’s utterly ridiculous. Seeing these unfortunate, uneducated people – I’m not saying that in a pejorative sense – seeing these people walking around like lemmings obeying without any knowledge base to put the mask on their face.” – Dr. Roger Hodkinson

“There is utterly unfounded public hysteria driven by the media and politicians,” says the doctor, amid a second push for wider lock downs, mandatory masks, enforced social distancing, and curfews.

“[Hodkinson] received his general medical degrees from Cambridge University in the UK (M.A., M.B., B. Chir.) where he was a scholar at Corpus Christi College,” explains MedMalDoctors, a medical-oriented law firm run by Dr. Hodkinson.

“Following a residency at the University of British Columbia he became a Royal College certified general pathologist (FRCPC) and also a Fellow of the College of American Pathologists (FCAP).

He is in good Standing with the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Alberta, and has been recognized by the Court of Queen’s Bench in Alberta as an expert in pathology.”

In order to halt the pandemic, Hodkinson believes that older and more vulnerable people need to be protected while noting that for people under the age of 65 in Alberta, Canada, only “one in three hundred thousand” have died. Locking down entire economies is “outrageous” in his view, for what has been tantamount to “just another bad flu” for those younger demographics.

“It’s politics playing medicine, and that’s a very dangerous game,” he concludes.“I’m absolutely outraged that this has reached this level. It should all stop tomorrow.”

https://www.wakingtimes.com/leading-virologist-says-coronavirus-pandemic-is-the-greatest-hoax-ever-perpetrated-on-an-unsuspecting-public/

Hodgkinson is not and never was a virologist. What he is is an ambulance chasing doctor, specialising in providing the right testimony for the right price. Where do ye find these sources?

AndrewJRenko

JeffKenna wrote: »

I'm saying neither of those things. I'm saying the health service is a shambles and has been with years. The poster linked an article about 7 patients being treated in an ambulance, far worse has happened to patients.

Have you worked out what happens when you have a heart attack or stroke in Donegal when all or most ambulances are tied up at the hospital?

GocRh

Does anybody know if a Garda related construction site would be considered essential construction?
Garda Security and Operation Centre site open today, much to my surprise. Doesn't seem to fall into any of the categories - not an utility infrastructure.

(h) the repair, maintenance and construction of critical transport and utility infrastructure;
https://cif.ie/coronavirus/#statements

Called the local Gardai station. They were not very pleased that I suggesting a Garda construction site was not essential. Told me to call the HSE. HSE then directed me to the HSA (Health and Safety Authority).

Disappointing but not surprising. At this rate big construction will remain fully open and only the small builders will be penalised.

zerosugarbuzz

Graces7 wrote: »

And if it were true? (which I do not believe) What an indictment of local communities and families. it is up to all and each of us to keep an eye on old and ill folk in our communities; to check and visit and make sure they are getting supplies and a bit of company. They call it " community spirit. " I hope those alleging these things are checking on old folk in their area?


I’m not actually they type for making up stories, why would I or anyone bother. I’ll go back to my neighbour and work colleague and let them know or not be worried the situation is just a figment of their imagination. It’s Actually quite sad that anyone would be so doubtful that this situation could arise. Maybe it’s a lack of connection by yourselves to the outside world and what goes on in it.

Dempo1

GocRh wrote: »

Does anybody know if a Garda related construction site would be considered essential construction?
Garda Security and Operation Centre site open today, much to my surprise. Doesn't seem to fall into any of the categories - not an utility infrastructure.

(h) the repair, maintenance and construction of critical transport and utility infrastructure;
https://cif.ie/coronavirus/#statements

Called the local Gardai station. They were not very pleased that I suggesting a Garda construction site was not essential. Told me to call the HSE. HSE then directed me to the HSA (Health and Safety Authority).

Disappointing but not surprising. At this rate big construction will remain fully open and only the small builders will be penalised.

At a guess I'd believe any Construction site related to the security of the state would be considered essential, this said, I suspect we'll be seeing 'new hospital development signs " appearing at even tge most obscure building sites around the country, nothing like creative signage.

GocRh

Dempo1 wrote: »

At a guess I'd believe any Construction site related to the security of the state would be considered essential

That would be quite a stretch of the regulation. Security isn't mentioned at all. Site is nowhere near completion, foundations still being dug.

Don't Chute!

Someone texted into Newstalk this morning:

“It’s time to start treating Covid for what it actually is, A PLAGUE!!! People need to be scared out their wits. Maybe then the idiots will stay at home”.

Indeed.

NPHET and the “government” have only themselves to blame for what’s happening now as regards compliance to restrictions. They wouldn’t let us children out to play when cases and deaths were on the floor and now people have had enough. Except of course for the Uber hysterical types quoted above.

pjohnson

Is going back to the completely debunked Hodkinson really the best the anti restrictions have left :pac:

Boggles

Don't Chute! wrote: »

They wouldn’t let us children out to play when cases and deaths were on the floor

You should open your curtains more.

Don't Chute!

Boggles wrote: »

You should open your curtains more.

Elaborate please.

Boggles

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Elaborate please.

You are claiming you locked yourself in when cases "were on the floor".

That was a personal choice and not a reflection on reality.

It would appear, The lady doth protest too much.

As for "children" they were all back in school for 3 months and playing sports and being kids throughout the summer.

Don't Chute!

Boggles wrote: »

You are claiming you locked yourself in when cases "were on the floor".

That was a personal choice and not a reflection on reality.

It would appear, The lady doth protest too much.

As for "children" they were all back in school for 3 months and playing sports and being kids throughout the summer.

As usual you got it wrong. I’m referring to during the summer when the rest of Europe was getting back to at least some sort of normality we were still in restrictions and Tony et al are wondering why there is no buy in now. I never said I locked myself in. Are people like you so ingrained in lockdown thinking that you think simply being able to leave your house means there are no restrictions? The “children” part just completely went over your head.

Boggles

Don't Chute! wrote: »

I never said I locked myself in.

Nope, you said

Don't Chute! wrote: »

They wouldn’t let us children out to play

If you didn't go "out to play" during the summer that was a personal choice.

So you voluntarily stayed in.

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Is going back to the completely debunked Hodkinson really the best the anti restrictions have left :pac:

Who was your man in the spring who claimed the fall off in cases was because we had reached herd immunity? Dont see him around anymore

FintanMcluskey

Boggles wrote: »

If you didn't go "out to play" during the summer that was a personal choice.

So you voluntarily stayed in.

Don’t going out to play for the Summer was a personal choice?

What planet were you on

Barbers opened on July 2nd?

average_runner

Don't Chute! wrote: »

As usual you got it wrong. I’m referring to during the summer when the rest of Europe was getting back to at least some sort of normality we were still in restrictions and Tony et al are wondering why there is no buy in now. I never said I locked myself in. Are people like you so ingrained in lockdown thinking that you think simply being able to leave your house means there are no restrictions? The “children” part just completely went over your head.

Children were out playing in the streets all over the summer. All campsites for caravans were open and kids were playing freely also.


Kids had some gaa matches too. My kids thought it was a great summer, out playing so much and having the parents at home.

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Barbers opened on July 2nd?

In the hemisphere Ireland reside in that's the summer.

But if it is some personal grooming you are after, you should talk to a poster on here, everyone they know is getting their hair and nails done on the sly.

Might be able to sort you out.

average_runner

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Don’t going out to play for the Summer was a personal choice?

What planet were you on

Barbers opened on July 2nd?

Yes it was. Kids were out playing since May

FintanMcluskey

Boggles wrote: »

In the hemisphere Ireland reside in that's the summer.

But if it is some personal grooming you are after, you should talk to a poster on here, everyone they know is getting their hair and nails done on the sly.

Might be able to sort you out.

So it was a personal choice not to play, there was no choice.

Making up stuff again I see

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

So it was a personal choice not to play, there was no choice.

Making up stuff again I see

Everyone had the choice to go to the barber during the summer if they wanted, along with lots of other things

If they stayed in voluntarily that was a personal choice.

Blaming NPHET or the government for that personal choice is bizarre in the extreme but hardly surprising on this thread.

Not as bizarre as blaming the current surge of infections on activities they were free to do during the summer but chose not to.

NIMAN

Sorry to hark back to a point made many pages back, but I wonder how many of those presenting to hospitals or their gps actually have seasonal flu, and not covid.

A proper flu, I.e. not a cold, is a severe enough illness for the guts of a week. It can really knock you sideways and make you feel really bad.

But now we are being told that these are probably all covid, when there is a good probability that many of them are flu. So people are probably panicking and are sitting in a back of an ambulance or in a&e thinking they have covid.