Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

CIARAN_BOYLE

NIMAN wrote: »

Sorry to hark back to a point made many pages back, but I wonder how many of those presenting to hospitals or their gps actually have seasonal flu, and not covid.

A proper flu, I.e. not a cold, is a severe enough illness for the guts of a week. It can really knock you sideways and make you feel really bad.

But now we are being told that these are probably all covid, when there is a good probability that many of them are flu. So people are probably panicking and are sitting in a back of an ambulance or in a&e thinking they have covid.

Well given that we are only testing symptomatic people and positivity is under 1 in 5 cold and flus and head cold and asthmatics with a flare up must make up the remainder.

Probably more cold than flus.

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

Sorry to hark back to a point made many pages back, but I wonder how many of those presenting to hospitals or their gps actually have seasonal flu, and not covid.

A proper flu, I.e. not a cold, is a severe enough illness for the guts of a week. It can really knock you sideways and make you feel really bad.

But now we are being told that these are probably all covid, when there is a good probability that many of them are flu. So people are probably panicking and are sitting in a back of an ambulance or in a&e thinking they have covid.

Data readily available:

Zero Influenza positive samples from Dec 21st to January 3rd from 435 tests completed. As you can see from the data below, they also test for other virus where there is evidence of a viral infection but no Covid or Flu detected. The report for last week should be available later this week.

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/surveillance/influenzasurveillancereports/20202021season/

opinionated3

Leo on today FM just now. Says he can't ever see things returning to the old normal. Depressing stuff altogether. We "might have a good summer but it won't be a normal summer".....
I give up.

Graham

Graham wrote: »

Not quite seeing the connect.

Are you saying we should or shouldn't overwhelm the health services because of your grannies hip experience?

If you're suggesting our health services were already under pressure, surely we should do everything we can to limit that during a pandemic

What he is saying is that our health system is a shambles and has been for years. They are using covid 19 to cover up the shambles they are in. Every winter (flu season) our hospitals are over crowded and hospitals cant cope. People are on trolleys for hours and days because they cant get a bed

Idbatterim

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/it-needed-to-be-said-public-praise-for-varadkar-s-criticism-of-nphet-1.4454683?mode=amp

Boggles

Idbatterim wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/it-needed-to-be-said-public-praise-for-varadkar-s-criticism-of-nphet-1.4454683?mode=amp

Jesus, I can just imagine the caliber of people who wrote to him to support him throwing a hysterical teenage strop on live TV.

Same type of people who were voluntarily staying in during the summer with their curtains closed rage tweeting about restrictions.

average_runner

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

So it was a personal choice not to play, there was no choice.

Making up stuff again I see

Yes it was a personal choice in the summer.

average_runner

Deleted User wrote: »

What he is saying is that our health system is a shambles and has been for years. They are using covid 19 to cover up the shambles they are in. Every winter (flu season) our hospitals are over crowded and hospitals cant cope. People are on trolleys for hours and days because they cant get a bed

Yes our healthcare system is a shambles and that is more of a reason we need to limit the numbers now more than ever.

FintanMcluskey

opinionated3 wrote: »

Leo on today FM just now. Says he can't ever see things returning to the old normal. Depressing stuff altogether. We "might have a good summer but it won't be a normal summer".....
I give up.

Heard that.

I’ve been saying along, if we continue to implement restrictions using the metrics seen in October when level 5 was mandated for 6 weeks, the restrictions won’t end until the nation is bankrupt.

the kelt

GocRh wrote: »

Does anybody know if a Garda related construction site would be considered essential construction?
Garda Security and Operation Centre site open today, much to my surprise. Doesn't seem to fall into any of the categories - not an utility infrastructure.

(h) the repair, maintenance and construction of critical transport and utility infrastructure;
https://cif.ie/coronavirus/#statements

Called the local Gardai station. They were not very pleased that I suggesting a Garda construction site was not essential. Told me to call the HSE. HSE then directed me to the HSA (Health and Safety Authority).

Disappointing but not surprising. At this rate big construction will remain fully open and only the small builders will be penalised.

Did you really go to the bother of making multiple phone calls because a building site was operating?

Beasty

patnor1011 wrote: »

Some virologists think the opposite.

A top virologist and pathologist in Canada told government officials that the coronavirus pandemic is, “the greatest hoax ever perpretrated on an unsuspecting public,” and that, “paper masks and fabric masks are simply virtue signaling.”
...

More conspiracy theory stuff

Threadbanned

average_runner

average_runner wrote: »

Yes our healthcare system is a shambles and that is more of a reason we need to limit the numbers now more than ever.

I never mentioned anything about limiting numbers. The governemnt knows that the health system has been a shambles for years and have not done anything about it and when covid eventually disappears they still probably wont dont anything to improve the health system

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Heard that.

I’ve been saying along, if we continue to implement restrictions using the metrics seen in October when level 5 was mandated for 6 weeks, the restrictions won’t end until the nation is bankrupt.

I agree. Assuming (and my elderly father was told this when he got his jab in the UK last week) this is an annual vaccination, then we will always have COVID cases in our society. It just won’t be possible to vaccinate every person every year.

So therefore there will always be cases and if we lockdown every time when they reach October levels then we can kiss goodbye to our way of life forever.

I don’t know how people don’t get this. Once the vulnerable and front line workers are vaccinated, we need to get back to normal or we never will

average_runner

Deleted User wrote: »

I never mentioned anything about limiting numbers. The governemnt knows that the health system has been a shambles for years and have not done anything about it and when covid eventually disappears they still probably wont dont anything to improve the health system

Totally agree, the problem also is the unions. Many a proposal was put in there and got shut down.

average_runner

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree. Assuming (and my elderly father was told this when he got his jab in the UK last week) this is an annual vaccination, then we will always have COVID cases in our society. It just won’t be possible to vaccinate every person every year.

So therefore there will always be cases and if we lockdown every time when they reach October levels then we can kiss goodbye to our way of life forever.

I don’t know how people don’t get this. Once the vulnerable and front line workers are vaccinated, we need to get back to normal or we never will

I think you are missing the point. The main vaccine will limit the affect of most strains. Like the flu jab that gets distributed every year to the vulnerable with no issues, there could be a top up of the covid vaccine and you get it at the same time as the flu jab.


There is no proof you need a top up yet. My dad's nursing home getting it today

Don't Chute!

average_runner wrote: »

Children were out playing in the streets all over the summer. All campsites for caravans were open and kids were playing freely also.


Kids had some gaa matches too. My kids thought it was a great summer, out playing so much and having the parents at home.

You, like Boggles have completely missed the point I was making.

average_runner

average_runner wrote: »

I think you are missing the point. The main vaccine will limit the affect of most strains. Like the flu jab that gets distributed every year to the vulnerable with no issues, there could be a top up of the covid vaccine and you get it at the same time as the flu jab.


There is no proof you need a top up yet. My dad's nursing home getting it today

The vulnerable will be protected on an ongoing basis, for sure. But the virus will be endemic in our society, and if the cases continue to be counted in this way, and lockdowns happen at the level of cases that we saw last autumn, then we will literally never exit this lockdown cycle

Boggles

Don't Chute! wrote: »

You, like Boggles have completely missed the point I was making.

Your point was you weren't allowed out during the summer.

I pointed out, you were.

If you didn't go out during the summer that was a personal choice.

You are now bizarrely blaming that personal choice on this current wave of infections.

It's not that difficult to understand.

emo72

Can the test (pcr?) tell the difference between covid and flu?

celt262

emo72 wrote: »

Can the test (pcr?) tell the difference between covid and flu?

The Facebook experts say no.

emo72

emo72 wrote: »

Can the test (pcr?) tell the difference between covid and flu?

The test is for Covid. Its a different test for Flu

emo72

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The test is for Covid. Its a different test for Flu

Was asking after listening to Alex Berenson on Joe Rogan. It's really frustrating the level of discourse. Anyone who disagrees is immediately labeled a conspiracy theorist. Anyway I'm lying in bed and don't know how I'm going to have this day. Will get up soon because I have to, having Leo saying they we'll never return to normal doesn't help at all.

Don't Chute!

Boggles wrote: »

Your point was you weren't allowed out during the summer.

I pointed out, you were.

If you didn't go out during the summer that was a personal choice.

You are now bizarrely blaming that personal choice on this current wave of infections.

It's not that difficult to understand.

Ok I’ll explain it then. What I meant by “going out to play” was that while the rest of Europe was at least TRYING to live with this thing we couldn’t get a haircut or go shopping or go to a bar etc. I never said those restrictions caused what we have today I said it caused compliance fatigue. I suspect you knew what I meant all along and are being deliberately obtuse. If not I may have to draw you a picture......

Boggles

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Ok I’ll explain it then. What I meant by “going out to play” was that while the rest of Europe was at least TRYING to live with this thing we couldn’t get a haircut or go shopping or go to a bar etc. I never said those restrictions caused what we have today I said it caused compliance fatigue. I suspect you knew what I meant all along and are being deliberately obtuse. If not I may have to draw you a picture......

Nope

Barbers, shops and the majority of pubs and restaurants were opened during the summer.

If you didn't go that was a personal choice.

average_runner

Deleted User wrote: »

The vulnerable will be protected on an ongoing basis, for sure. But the virus will be endemic in our society, and if the cases continue to be counted in this way, and lockdowns happen at the level of cases that we saw last autumn, then we will literally never exit this lockdown cycle

Once majority have the vaccine, it will not affect the general public the same way


The issue was always about protecting the vulnerable

Responder XY

Don't Chute! wrote: »

I said it caused compliance fatigue.  

I'd love to see some effort put into finding out how much compliance fatigue led to people letting down their guard over christmas. I personally feel that if socially distant hospitality had been allowed all year from the summer onwards, yes we would have had more cases at the time, but we could have controlled it.

People would have had enough safe socialisation all year and would not have felt the urge to go mad over the christmas. Restrictions could have stayed the same throughout most of the year and everyone would have known how to behave.

It's my view that those pushing hard restrictions have really had their position come back to bite them hard in the past few weeks.

Obviously have no evidence for this - but would love to see a proper study into it.

GocRh

the kelt wrote: »

Did you really go to the bother of making multiple phone calls because a building site was operating?

Yes. Rules are rules. I'm following the rules, why should a construction site be exempted from following rules?

Everyone needs to do their part.

average_runner

average_runner wrote: »

Once majority have the vaccine, it will not affect the general public the same way


The issue was always about protecting the vulnerable

It used to be about protecting the vulnerable and hospital capacity, but I think that the goalposts have moved with all the chat of ‘new normals’. If what you say were true, we would be looking at normality by the summer, but it is clear we are not

We will need to see a long term ‘living with COVID’ plan soon, or adherence to any restrictions after the vulnerable have been vaccinated will the out of the window

Responder XY

Responder XY wrote: »

I'd love to see some effort put into finding out how much compliance fatigue led to people letting down their guard over christmas. I personally feel that if socially distant hospitality had been allowed all year from the summer onwards, yes we would have had more cases at the time, but we could have controlled it.

People would have had enough safe socialisation all year and would not have felt the urge to go mad over the christmas. Restrictions could have stayed the same throughout most of the year and everyone would have known how to behave.

It's my view that those pushing hard restrictions have really had their position come back to bite them hard in the past few weeks.

Obviously have no evidence for this - but would love to see a proper study into it.

I agree. Those supporting a harsh lockdown even at the small case numbers we were experiencing did not appreciate that they were pulling back the metaphorical slingshot further and further, with the inevitable outcome

Don't Chute!

Boggles wrote: »

Nope

Barbers, shops and the majority of pubs and restaurants were opened during the summer.

If you didn't go that was a personal choice.

https://www.thejournal.ie/when-are-hairdresser-and-barbers-reopening-5127214-Jun2020/

I’m done explaining it to you. It was a really simple concept.