Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Depressing times ahead. Wish I could see the suicide stats for last year.

Declaring depressing times and wishing for suicide statistics.

Da Fuq?

GocRh

Deleted User wrote: »

I travel, so not calling you out on that at all, but I do acknowledge that it is non essential, so in breach of guidelines.

It is just more than a little disingenuous of you to moan about the definition of ‘essential’ when it comes to the construction work, while taking your own very liberal interpretation of ‘essential’ when it comes to your own travel

There is legislation clearly listing what types of construction sites can remain open. This is NOT my liberal interpretation, the guidelines clearly specify what can be open and security is not on the list. Maybe the list should be revisited but my point still remains - as it stands at the moment security is not on the list.

There is NO legislation defining what type of travel is considered essential.

My comment is solely from a legislation / regulation perspective. I have not breached any legislation or regulations by traveling.

The DFA follows the EU guidelines and travel to the EU is classified as High Degree of Caution, and not 'Avoid non-essential travel'. I do agree that the messaging from government can be confusing (the HSE will often have a different message), below is what the DFA says.

Ireland is implementing the EU ‘traffic lights’ approach to travel, which applies to countries in the EU / EEA. Our current advice for travel to these countries is ‘exercise a high degree of caution’. Our general advice for any other overseas travel remains ‘avoid non-essential travel’ or in some cases, ‘do not travel’.

zerosugarbuzz

Boggles wrote: »

Declaring depressing times and wishing for suicide statistics.

Da Fuq?

That’s just plain rude. Some people on this thread resort to pure bullying to those who quite simply have a different opinion to them. I would also like access to some figures, suicide, domestic violence, child abuse and the total number of deaths in Ireland for 2020.

average_runner

average_runner wrote: »

You can't expect them to open the restaurants after the last performance in fairness.




Amount of stories i heard or meeting people for food and picking up the virus over xmas is unreal.



Level 3 after Paddys day and i say restaurants in May

It is interesting that he admitted that there was no public appetite for lockdown in late November/December. Stephen Donnelly said same at the time.

Be interesting to see how the public take it if they won’t relax restrictions until summer.

Boggles

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Some people on this thread resort to pure bullying to those who quite simply have a different opinion to them. I would also like access to some figures, suicide, domestic violence, child abuse and the total number of deaths in Ireland for 2020.

Why?

It won't validate your pandemic denial.

FintanMcluskey

Boggles wrote: »

Why?

It won't validate your pandemic denial.

The only denial is the denial of the sunk costs involved in Ireland’s up to now over the top approach

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The only denial is the denial of the sunk costs involved in Ireland’s up to now over the top approach

Jaysus Fintan, maybe instead of focusing on the costs have a look at the value of things.

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

This thread is a disaster for blood pressure.

May help with you blood pressure.

AndrewJRenko

Sure it's only the older folks

https://twitter.com/leeam_dubwest/status/1347614295484493825?s=19

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Declaring depressing times and wishing for suicide statistics.

Da Fuq?

Yes, suicides tend to rise during depressing times.
So it would be good to see the stats to see how bad the issue is.

There are more issues than just Covid in society. Hard for some to grasp.

TomSweeney

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/10/plan-for-the-future-now-or-covid-will-last-for-years-uk-scientists-warn

The rollout of vaccines currently under way would cut hospital admissions and deaths among the old and vulnerable, they said, but it would still leave many other people at risk of being infected and suffering from the long-term effects of the disease.

Shifting the goalposts ....

Even if every human on Earth was vaccinated, we would still be at risk of it coming back.”

What ???

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Sure it's only the older folks

https://twitter.com/leeam_dubwest/status/1347614295484493825?s=19

This is not new information.
We do know that a tiny number of younger people MAY die. She could have had undiagnosed underlying issues.

It will take a lot more than 1 death to impact the stats.

TomSweeney

Deleted User wrote: »

This is not new information.
We do know that a tiny number of younger people MAY die. She could have had undiagnosed underlying issues.

It will take a lot more than 1 death to impact the stats.

And the media are obsessed with digging up these extremely rare deaths to scare...

one armed dwarf

So do any posters here have any realistic proposals to get out of this current mess then?

I don't think anybody disputes that the bill for these lockdowns will be massive, or that there will be a second epidemic of mental health issues and arrested development for younger people.

But what exactly is going to happen if we release the valve and let this thing rip through? We'll just be compelled to take even more stringent restrictions which cause the same issues and heap on far worse ones in the form of massive death and long term illness. Speaking as somebody who already has a long term incurable health problem it is far far more deteretious to my sense of well being than economic lockdown, or job loss (I have been let go from my work due to C19 cutbacks). If we see a big increase in diagnoses of glaucoma or diabetes due to covid then that too will have a knock on effect on our collective mental health. Lockdown isn't the only factor which will cause record breaking suicides.

There isnt' a single country in the world whos health system has managed to absorb the impact of COVID without some form of restrictions, the outcome of cases for both young and old are directly impacted by the ability of health systems to handle this. That is just the nature of a virus which will spread exponentially when our ability to build capacity doesn't work at the same scale. People who end up hospitalised and recover from covid would have a less sure outcome if there's no capacity to help them. I will grant that some of the measures and targets for restrictions are a bit obtuse, the 9 euro meal thing yet apparently schools are magically safe. But lurking this thread for months it doesn't seem like there's a lot of alternative proposals being provided here, mostly just whinging about our frontline medical staff being a load of drama merchants. Or in a lot of other cases there's just rampant denialism of how the virus is demonstrably more serious to our society than the flu. The data on that really can't be disputed at this point.

Basically we've been served a **** sandwich by this ****ing virus and all we can do is limit the damage it is going to cause and look at realistic measures to keep it causing this type of upheaval ever again. Vaccines, not herd immunity for one

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, suicides tend to rise during depressing times.
So it would be good to see the stats to see how bad the issue is.

There are more issues than just Covid in society. Hard for some to grasp.

Wishing for suicide statistics in a vain attempt to validate your pandemic denial is just plain crass.

But lets hope that when the provisional data is published in a few months for 2020 it's less the 421 poor souls in 2019 who all felt that had no other choice for a multitude of complex reasons.

The reality is, it's a once in a generation pandemic with only a set of pretty shítty options.

A couple of hospitals in London are now cancelling critical emergency care, let's hope we avoid that scenario.

AndrewJRenko

TomSweeney wrote: »

And the media are obsessed with digging up these extremely rare deaths to scare...

It was posted by her brother in law, nothing to do with the media. Trump would be proud of the fake news denial though.

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Leo said normal is unlikely to ever return.

This Summer won’t be normal but it will be a good one.

Whatever that means

I've just listened to the whole interview. He said he thinks things won't return to the way they were before the pandemic. He went on to say that there will be more people working from home than there were before and that mask wearing, social distancing and hand hygiene will be 'with us to a certain extent' in future flu seasons. That's it. No big deal.

AndrewJRenko

[Deleted User] wrote: »

She could have had undiagnosed underlying issues.

Or maybe she tripped over her COVID test tube and cracked her head? Any feckin excuse....

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The only denial is the denial of the sunk costs involved in Ireland’s up to now over the top approach

I haven't seen anyone denying that...?

AndrewJRenko

Sure why should we have listened to NPHET anyway?

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1348631336383340544?s=19

Elmer Blooker

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It was posted by her brother in law, nothing to do with the media. Trump would be proud of the fake news denial though.

If my sister in law died the last thing on my mind would be announcing it on twitter.
The brother in law of the unfortunate woman seems to be quite a classy individual.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

This is not new information.
We do know that a tiny number of younger people MAY die. She could have had undiagnosed underlying issues.

It will take a lot more than 1 death to impact the stats.

according to below, about 2.7 per 100,000 die from SADS. Now if they test positive which a lot would because it's so rampant, then we'd have young people with an undiagnosed well known killer, dressed as Covid -19.

Not saying that's the case with this girl god love her but I'm just saying, there's other factors at play when considering real CAUSE of death.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/sudden-adult-death-syndrome-the-genetic-screening-that-saves-young-lives-1.2106873

AndrewJRenko

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

If my sister in law died the last thing on my mind would be announcing it on twitter.
The brother in law of the unfortunate woman seems to be quite a classy individual.

Another classic Trumpian tactic - twist the blame onto someone else to distract from the message.

PTH2009

When we all getting sent to the assembly hall for our bollocking for now been the number 1 country in infection rates

manniot2

highest in the world now we are. this is the result of restricting everyone all year. a massive spring was released and everyone is now sick at the same time. we can thank nphet.

SnuggyBear

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Based on what Leo is saying, it’s more or less lockdown until summer. Probably schools and construction will reopen. Maybe non essential retail.

I’ll be shocked if restaurants open before summer. Depressing times ahead. Wish I could see the suicide stats for last year.

It would be nice if they gave us an idea of what the numbers would have to be to open certain things. Surely a month of this lockdown would be enough to open non essential retail.

Idbatterim

one armed dwarf wrote: »

So do any posters here have any realistic proposals to get out of this current mess then?

I don't think anybody disputes that the bill for these lockdowns will be massive, or that there will be a second epidemic of mental health issues and arrested development for younger people.

But what exactly is going to happen if we release the valve and let this thing rip through? We'll just be compelled to take even more stringent restrictions which cause the same issues and heap on far worse ones in the form of massive death and long term illness. Speaking as somebody who already has a long term incurable health problem it is far far more deteretious to my sense of well being than economic lockdown, or job loss (I have been let go from my work due to C19 cutbacks). If we see a big increase in diagnoses of glaucoma or diabetes due to covid then that too will have a knock on effect on our collective mental health. Lockdown isn't the only factor which will cause record breaking suicides.

There isnt' a single country in the world whos health system has managed to absorb the impact of COVID without some form of restrictions, the outcome of cases for both young and old are directly impacted by the ability of health systems to handle this. That is just the nature of a virus which will spread exponentially when our ability to build capacity doesn't work at the same scale. People who end up hospitalised and recover from covid would have a less sure outcome if there's no capacity to help them. I will grant that some of the measures and targets for restrictions are a bit obtuse, the 9 euro meal thing yet apparently schools are magically safe. But lurking this thread for months it doesn't seem like there's a lot of alternative proposals being provided here, mostly just whinging about our frontline medical staff being a load of drama merchants. Or in a lot of other cases there's just rampant denialism of how the virus is demonstrably more serious to our society than the flu. The data on that really can't be disputed at this point.

Basically we've been served a **** sandwich by this ****ing virus and all we can do is limit the damage it is going to cause and look at realistic measures to keep it causing this type of upheaval ever again. Vaccines, not herd immunity for one

I think during the summer, they could have loosened restrictions more and opened more businesses, given the population and businesses that are struggling, a bit more of a break. The leaving cert situation was a farce. NPHET effectively running things is / was a farce.

weldoninhio

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It was posted by her brother in law, nothing to do with the media. Trump would be proud of the fake news denial though.

Twitter is a valid news source now?

Mad how its valid or not, depending if the person on it agrees or disagrees with someone.

average_runner

weldoninhio wrote: »

Twitter is a valid news source now?

Mad how its valid or not, depending if the person on it agrees or disagrees with someone.

Twitter more valid than Irish papers anyhow:D

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Wishing for suicide statistics in a vain attempt to validate your pandemic denial is just plain crass.

But lets hope that when the provisional data is published in a few months for 2020 it's less the 421 poor souls in 2019 who all felt that had no other choice for a multitude of complex reasons.

The reality is, it's a once in a generation pandemic with only a set of pretty shítty options.

A couple of hospitals in London are now cancelling critical emergency care, let's hope we avoid that scenario.

You keep mentioning pandemic denial and yet I haven’t seen a single person deny there is an illness. Why do you keep doing that?

I hope suicides are lower than previous years.

It’s bizarre to me that people wouldn’t be interested in seeing these figures during very depressing times. What if they’ve trebled?

But as a country, we are good at burying things and giving a state apology years and years later.

manniot2

manniot2 wrote: »

highest in the world now we are. this is the result of restricting everyone all year. a massive spring was released and everyone is now sick at the same time. we can thank nphet.

You’d have to look at that and conclude that lockdown more months and months doesn’t work.

But no doubt our solution will be longer and harder lockdown will fix... everything?