Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

zerosugarbuzz

joseywhales wrote: »

They will all live for two more years though.

Alive yes, living - not really.

Sad to see the deaths today and yesterday.

Hard to believe that a year into this and we still have no solutions for nursing homes.

Lockdown the whole country and hope it doesn’t get in is all our experts and leaders have got...

And with endless billions to invest

average_runner

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sad to see the deaths today and yesterday.

Hard to believe that a year into this and we still have no solutions for nursing homes.

Lockdown the whole country and hope it doesn’t get in is all our experts and leaders have got...

And with endless billions to invest

The staff of nursing homes or family members have to go out in the community where the virus is high due to our lack of control at dec.

Delivery men to the nursing home has the same problem. Get it low in the community protects the nursing homes

Micky 32

ceadaoin. wrote: »

You're delusional if you think people are going to accept severe restrictions indefinitely. Much longer and there will be civil unrest and just mass defiance. Theres already a movement in Italy with thousands of restaurants planning to open on Friday regardless of what the government say. Its completely against human nature to live like this, to be expected not to socialise, see loved ones etc for extended periods. Maybe that suits you but for the vast majority, no it doesn't work.

Some posters are just stuck in their fantasy land and feel no empathy whatsoever They drool at the mouth at the prospect of forever lockdowns. They live off the drama of misery etc. This will be the last year of lockdowns, the vaccines are very effective and more treatments will come onboard in time.

Yes viruses can mutate and vaccines can be tweaked. Worse case scenario it will be like the flu vaccinated once a year( that’s worse case scenario). I have read that if this particular virus mutates too much it will end up weakening itself, something else to consider.

FintanMcluskey

average_runner wrote: »

The staff of nursing homes or family members have to go out in the community where the virus is high due to our lack of control at dec.

Delivery men to the nursing home has the same problem. Get it low in the community protects the nursing homes

It’s a paradox really.

The one way to protect health and ensure people live long enough to get to live in those nursing homes is a prosperous economy and adequate healthcare.

To protect those nursing homes from Covid we have obliterated the economy this meaning they won’t be as full in future.

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

Sad to see the deaths today and yesterday.

Hard to believe that a year into this and we still have no solutions for nursing homes.

Lockdown the whole country and hope it doesn’t get in is all our experts and leaders have got...

And with endless billions to invest

These tragic fatality figures are coming in to line with every other country. Ireland is only unusual for how we have kept the numbers down until now.

I think we could do with less denial and more focus on the crisis the country is in.

Lack of personal responsibility and basic common sense by a tiny minority will spread this virus and make people who do not need to be sick, sick.

When is the message going to get through? All you are doing is constantly trying to divert from the reality of the situation.

It helps no one. It doesn't help the restrictions you are so against either, quite the opposite.

If everyone does their part the problem is helped dramatically.

Boggles

walus wrote: »

Sorry, don’t have those on hand. I’ve done this research 6 months back. As such you are not going to find a single source for this. It takes an analysis of nonlinear complex systems (the virus will never come in contact with all population, exponential phase duration etc.), T-cells science (that was from a German study), death rate and so on. You can say that it is an estimate, or a scientific guess if you like, but it is still better than pulling the numbers from ‘one’s depth within’, as Fintan has eloquently called pulling numbers from one’s ar5e.

The internet goes back further than 6 months or did I miss a meeting on this?

average_runner

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It’s a paradox really.

The one way to protect health and ensure people live long enough to get to live in those nursing homes is a prosperous economy and adequate healthcare.

To protect those nursing homes from Covid we have obliterated the economy this meaning they won’t be as full in future.

No we just need the minority to act like adults

FintanMcluskey

average_runner wrote: »

No we just need the minority to act like adults

No we need adults to remain suppressed.

Adults, especially young adults main function is to ensure the species survives by creating life. It’s also what they are indoctrinated to do.

So what we need is for adults to to continue go against every natural urge and desire for an unspecified amount of time to protect the health service.

All the while making their own financial futures depressingly bleak and barren of opportunity for likely the rest of their lives

walus

Boggles wrote: »

The internet goes back further than 6 months or did I miss a meeting on this?

It does, feel free to do your own research. Let me know what you found. Maybe I’ll learn something new.

Boggles

ceadaoin. wrote: »

You're delusional if you think people are going to accept severe restrictions indefinitely. Much longer and there will be civil unrest and just mass defiance. Theres already a movement in Italy with thousands of restaurants planning to open on Friday regardless of what the government say. Its completely against human nature to live like this, to be expected not to socialise, see loved ones etc for extended periods. Maybe that suits you but for the vast majority, no it doesn't work.

Have you a link for that?

I thought restaurants in the majority of Italy were open but had to close early?

average_runner

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

No we need adults to remain suppressed.

Adults, especially young adults main function is to ensure the species survives by creating life. It’s also what they are indoctrinated to do.

So what we need is for adults to to continue go against every natural urge and desire for an unspecified amount of time to protect the health service.

All the while making their own financial futures depressingly bleak and barren of opportunity for likely the rest of their lives

No you were asked to keep social circle small. Have xmas with your family or go out for a good time with your mates, not both.

Sadly people are burying love ones now because a dinner out or a drink was more Important

FintanMcluskey

Boggles wrote: »

Have you a link for that?

I thought restaurants in the majority of Italy were open but had to close early?

Well if that’s the case Ireland’s living with Covid policy has been only an expensive disaster from an economic and social point of view.

How many is on Italy’s Covid Emergency Team?

Maybe we expected to much of NPHET

Boggles

walus wrote: »

It does, feel free to do your own research. Let me know what you found. Maybe I’ll learn something new.

You want me to prove a negative? You're grand.

FintanMcluskey

average_runner wrote: »

No you were asked to keep social circle small. Have xmas with your family or go out for a good time with your mates, not both.

Sadly people are burying love ones now because a dinner out or a drink was more Important

You must have evidence of your claim?

That it was dinner out and not in the home’s the issue occurred

average_runner

average_runner wrote: »

No you were asked to keep social circle small. Have xmas with your family or go out for a good time with your mates, not both.

Sadly people are burying love ones now because a dinner out or a drink was more Important

So nobody should ever have dinner or a drink again in case someone dies...

Might as well just pack it in now

average_runner

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So nobody should ever have dinner or a drink again in case someone dies...

Might as well just pack it in now

That's the kind of response from my 8 year old when I say no more Nintendo today.

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Well if that’s the case Ireland’s living with Covid policy has been only an expensive disaster from an economic and social point of view.

They just surpassed 80,000 deaths, the economy isn't doing great and the government is about to collapse.

average_runner

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

You must have evidence of your claim?

That it was dinner out and not in the home’s the issue occurred

Alot of people socialised and picked up the virus via that. Just talk to people and u.see.

walus

average_runner wrote: »

The staff of nursing homes or family members have to go out in the community where the virus is high due to our lack of control at dec.

Delivery men to the nursing home has the same problem. Get it low in the community protects the nursing homes

Or selectively isolate those most vulnerable, staff who cares for them and their families. Pay staff double or triple their wages, provide a dedicated child care, schooling and all other benefits required. Make them feel their sacrifice is really appreciated. This still would cost a fraction of what has been already spent and which did not prevent this mess.

It is contrarian to the lockdown-until-vaccine strategy that so many governments subscribed too. BTW I wonder who came up with that plan. Surely not governments themselves.
I know, I know this is crazy idea and will never work as it has been said here so many times. No one has tried it after all, right.

So don’t bother telling me that again without any evidence .

FintanMcluskey

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

These tragic fatality figures are coming in to line with every other country. Ireland is only unusual for how we have kept the numbers down until now.

This is the greatest illusion the media ever created.

As nearly all the deaths occur in the over 65 category the death rate must be adjusted accordingly to expose an accurate metric.

Today’s deaths announced in Ireland is the equivalent to about 850 in the UK or Italy for example.

The media does prey on its readers lack of understanding statistics and demographics

GazzaL

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

This is the greatest illusion the media ever created.

As nearly all the deaths occur in the over 65 category the death rate must be adjusted accordingly to expose an accurate metric.

Today’s deaths announced in Ireland is the equivalent to about 850 in the UK or Italy for example.

The media does prey on its readers lack of understanding statistics and demographics

The way we count COVID deaths in this country, I'm surprised we haven't seen more headline stories like "Man who commits suicide dies of COVID-19".

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

This is the greatest illusion the media ever created.

Today’s deaths announced in Ireland is the equivalent to about 850 in the UK or Italy for example.

There was 1,564 deaths reported in the UK today.

46 Long

Donald Trump wrote: »

Let me give some stats for the (very) slow learners unfortunately among us:

The current rate of death in the UK is 1222 per million people. That is with restrictions. They messed up over there but they still have restrictions (As does every other country in the world to various degrees)

The population of the world is 7.674 billion according to google. That is 7674 million for the slower ones out there, and "bleedin' loads and loads" for some of the more hopeless ones.

If the world had the same death rate, by the end of the pandemic, with zero restrictions or vaccines, as the UK does now then the death total would be about 9.4m.

If you would like to use a larger country as the base, then take the US which currently has 1174 per million. That still gives a total of over 9 million.

To even come to the conclusion of a global 9m total by the end of everything if there had been no restrictions, you would have to assume two things:
(1) That the virus is already gone now. Nobody else will die in the UK or US.
(2) That lockdowns did nothing to lower the rate to now.

Neither of those are true.

How someone could try to keep a straight face and say that with no lockdowns or restrictions of any sort that the total would have been capped at 8m is flat-earther territory.

Our approach to Covid does not have to be a binary between 'lock it all down' and laissez faire 'let it rip'. Everyone recognizes that there has to be some form of mitigation but those of us who disagree with the current approach do so because we see the measures taken as disproportionate and frankly, of dubious benefit in actually controlling this thing.

There was a paper published in the European Journal of Clinical Observation the other day that analyzed lockdowns/restrictions (NPIs - non pharmaceutical interventions) across ten countries and reached the conclusion that while less-restrictive measures (social distancing and appeals to the public to reduce social activities) had a clear effect, more-restrictive measures like business closures and stay at home orders produced no clear additional benefits.

While small benefits cannot be excluded we do not find significant benefits on case growth of more restrictive NPIs. Similar reductions in case growth may be achievable with less restrictive interventions… We do not question the role of all public health interventions, or of co-ordinated communications about the epidemic, but we fail to find an additional benefit of stay at home orders and business closures.

CalamariFritti

Boggles wrote: »

They just surpassed 80,000 deaths, the economy isn't doing great and the government is about to collapse.

To be fair thats Italy's natural state.

FintanMcluskey

46 Long wrote: »

Our approach to Covid does not have to be a binary between 'lock it all down' and laissez faire 'let it rip'. Everyone recognizes that there has to be some form of mitigation but those of us who disagree with the current approach do so because we see the measures taken as disproportionate and frankly, of dubious benefit in actually controlling this thing.

There was a paper published in the European Journal of Clinical Observation the other day that analyzed lockdowns/restrictions across ten countries and reached the conclusion that while less-restrictive measures (social distancing and appeals to the public to reduce social activities) had a clear effect, more-restrictive measures like business closures and stay at home orders produced no clear additional benefits.

Exactly what many of us have been saying for some time and also serves to refute the argument that only lockdowns saved 30 million lives.

Basic mitigation measures are the most cost effective and sustainable long term

CalamariFritti

walus wrote: »

Or selectively isolate those most vulnerable, staff who cares for them and their families. Pay staff double or triple their wages, provide a dedicated child care, schooling and all other benefits required. Make them feel their sacrifice is really appreciated. This still would cost a fraction of what has been already spent and which did not prevent this mess.

It is contrarian to the lockdown-until-vaccine strategy that so many governments subscribed too. BTW I wonder who came up with that plan. Surely not governments themselves.
I know, I know this is crazy idea and will never work as it has been said here so many times. No one has tried it after all, right.

So don’t bother telling me that again without any evidence .

Temperature check and antigen test at the door. Every day for everyone and every instance. No exceptions. Let the army do it if we must.

No?

normanoffside

Deleted User wrote: »

Sad to see the deaths today and yesterday.

Hard to believe that a year into this and we still have no solutions for nursing homes.

Lockdown the whole country and hope it doesn’t get in is all our experts and leaders have got...

And with endless billions to invest

I've been saying this for months on end at this point but it looks like NPHET's hand is going to be forced because Ireland is being sent Antigen tests by the EU.

https://www.thejournal.ie/anitgen-testing-ireland-5322169-Jan2021/

Two quote from that article stand out:

It is recommended that EU countries use antigen tests in certain situations and settings......It said in high prevalence situations or where PCR testing capacity is limited, rapid antigen tests should be considered for recurring testing (every 2-3 days) of staff of health-care, home and social care, other long-term care facilities, closed settings, such as prisons, detention centres, and other reception infrastructures for asylum seekers
and migrants.

HIQA was asked by the National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) to undertake an expedited health technology assessment of the alternatives to the PCR test.

In a statement, the HSE said HIQA considered a wide range of alternative tests and testing strategies, investigated the extent that alternatives to the PCR are currently in use or recommended for use internationally, while also summarising the diagnostic accuracy of available alternatives.

What a stupid attitude- they are not as accurate so don't use them at all. Lets use the PCR test only (once a fortnight) and while awaiting results (1-2 days) let the staff work away

It's completely stubborn and nonsensical that we haven't been using this for months especially considering many of these tests have been developed and made right here in Ireland.

I see they are asking close contact healthcare staff to come back to work when they are asymptomatic. I wonder what a quick solution might be to check they are not infectious?

walus

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Temperature check and antigen test at the door. Every day for everyone and every instance. No exceptions. Let the army do it if we must.

No?

Yup, sounds reasonable to me. Exceptional circumstances after all, I hear. Add it on.

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It’s a paradox really.

The one way to protect health and ensure people live long enough to get to live in those nursing homes is a prosperous economy and adequate healthcare.

To protect those nursing homes from Covid we have obliterated the economy this meaning they won’t be as full in future.

Wha horsesh*t