Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

You had a feeling we should have eased restrictions 2 days before Christmas as well.

Maybe stop using your feelings to navigate through the pandemic.

Science and reality are much better tools I find.

Yep, full lockdown is not the answer. Just means cases spike when you try to open and overwhelm the hospitals.

Penfailed

fin12 wrote: »

The north have given all residents in nursing homes the 2nd dose of vaccine but here they hope to have it done by February. North have administered 100,000 vaccines, here not sure if it even 40,000.

Uk has vaccinated already 3 million. Just a f*cking joke. Anything to prolong the misery of lockdowns.

The UK were the first country in the Europe to begin vaccinating people. I'm not surprised their numbers are up on ours.

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Neil Ferguson said last weekend that London likely has herd immunity.

Why did some consider it such an anti-PC term?

...and now he's saying that 100,000 Britons could die if lockdown is lifted too soon.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Yep, full lockdown is not the answer. Just means cases spike when you try to open and overwhelm the hospitals.

You think the government should have announced the easing of restrictions 2 days before Christmas?

Have you modeled what may have happened?

polesheep

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not because it wasn't possible, but because it wasn't palatable

It was definitely promoted as a truth. I even found myself questioning my own knowledge and asking an immunologist. FWIW I don't see how it was achievable without years of rolling lockdowns, but without a vaccine I don't see what alternative we would have had. Once again, thank you science.

bb1234567

polesheep wrote: »

It was definitely promoted as a truth. I even found myself questioning my own knowledge and asking an immunologist. FWIW I don't see how it was achievable without years of rolling lockdowns, but without a vaccine I don't see what alternative we would have had. Once again, thank you science.

An interesting thread idea..I wonder if we would have had a referendum or something on how to proceed if there was no prospect of vaccine

FintanMcluskey

bb1234567 wrote: »

An interesting thread idea..I wonder if we would have had a referendum or something on how to proceed if there was no prospect of vaccine

Highly unlikely as social media would have had a huge influence on the outcome of the vote

Weren’t they deleting accounts that didn’t suit the narrative?

vafankillar

Dublin bus timetable being reduced to Saturday timetable from next monday.

****ing sick of this ****e. Bad enough being forced to work ascan essential worker but now will be stuck waiting around for travel

Rigsby

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s become exhausting trying to make people see sense. Way too many are now brain washed into believing that staying in lockdown to avoid lockdown is the ONLY solution.

The alternate solution to severe restrictions is to "live with" the virus under zero or mild restrictions. This would involve being careful about our movements and limiting our contacts. We proved to ourselves on the run up to christmas that we... (granted, it was probably a minority...but that's all that is required)... are incapable of doing this.

weldoninhio

Lundstram wrote: »

I'm 100% sure there's no one on this thread who believes thy should be allowed go for pints at the moment, despite what they say. Of course, it's the main go-to line for the lockdown lovers to stem debate. It's cheap and unintelligent but not surprising.

Should we have been allowed for pints back in the Summer when cases were on the floor and we went 16 days without a death, yes. But the government was chasing gold at the Covid19 Olympics to make themselves look good and thus the population suffered which resulted in chaos at Christmas and look at us now.

Balancing restrictions with supporting data was not done, a blanket lockdown for much of the summer. NPHET's over cautious approach has us where we are today, a total mess. People were given an inch at Christmas and took a mile and who can blame them.

Donnelly bragging about us being the best in Europe a few weeks back didn't help either, it gave a false sense of security to become complacent when restrictions eased a little.

Here we are now stuck in some sort of weird limbo. Lockdown level 5 but no end in sight. No vaccines numbers. No confidence in the HSE. No confidence in the bungling Donnelly.

A truly depressing time to be alive.

Meanwhile, Denmark, a country comparable in size to Ireland, thwy are absolutely flying the vaccine out. 2% of the population given the first dose, max of 6 weeks between the 2 doses.

Captain_Crash

mandrake04 wrote: »

Just use one of these, results in 13mins

https://www.globalpointofcare.abbott...ls/id-now.html

I can’t open the link...! What is it? And why if more effective than antigen is it not being used? Havnt the EU recommended RA testing be used alongside PCR?

Whatsisname

Deleted User wrote: »

And your statement about the WHO is false

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/herd-immunity-lockdowns-and-covid-19

15th October, (2 weeks or so after the Great Barrington Declaration came out) they changed it to

‘Herd immunity’, also known as ‘population immunity’, is a concept used for vaccination, in which a population can be protected from a certain virus if a threshold of vaccination is reached.

Herd immunity is achieved by protecting people from a virus, not by exposing them to it.

https://web.archive.org/web/20201222131927/https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/herd-immunity-lockdowns-and-covid-19

31st of December they changed it to what you posted.

The WHO and the media can put out any old **** they want and it'll be lapped up.

Lundstram

vafankillar wrote: »

Dublin bus timetable being reduced to Saturday timetable from next monday.

****ing sick of this ****e. Bad enough being forced to work ascan essential worker but now will be stuck waiting around for travel

Sky new posting videos of packed trams in London, of course was lapped up by the people sitting at home on their arses all day long. "disgrace" "stay at home".

Middle class pen-pushers criticising manual labour workers.

Some people just don't get it and aren't worth arguing with. All you get is "hurr durr don't cry 'cos you can't have pints".

Of course the economy and PUP money comes from the magic money tree in Paschal's back garden.

GazzaL

Lundstram wrote: »

Sky new posting videos of packed trams in London, of course was lapped up by the people sitting at home on their arses all day long. "disgrace" "stay at home".

Middle class pen-pushers criticising manual labour workers.

Some people just don't get it and aren't worth arguing with. All you get is "hurr durr don't cry 'cos you can't have pints".

Of course the economy and PUP money comes from the magic money tree in Paschal's back garden.

Some fellas think you can build a road sitting in a box bedroom on a laptop.

Boggles

Lundstram wrote: »

Some people just don't get it and aren't worth arguing with. All you get is "hurr durr don't cry 'cos you can't have pints".

Again the people who complain about pints being discussed are the same people bringing pints into the discussion constantly.

Lundstram wrote: »

Should we have been allowed for pints back in the Summer

bb1234567

weldoninhio wrote: »

Meanwhile, Denmark, a country comparable in size to Ireland, thwy are absolutely flying the vaccine out. 2% of the population given the first dose, max of 6 weeks between the 2 doses.

And we are not far behind?
https://twitter.com/thejournal_ie/status/1349724138814885889

Boggles

Denmark are going off manual with their spacing regime, they have also ran out of vaccine AFAIK and are awaiting new doses.

Also this obsession with who is winning the 'Vaccine Cup' is pretty remedial.

one armed dwarf

Whatsisname wrote: »

The WHO and the media can put out any old **** they want and it'll be lapped up.

Similarly there are those who will lap up any contrarian viewpoint as long as it seems to back up their position. As almost none of us are ourselves epidemiologists we rely on advice from experts cause a once in a century pandemic isn't something you can wing or learn about through a youtube tutorial. Qualified knowledge in a field is relevant, so is achieving scientific consensus.

So what would our herd immunity strategy look like then? Because we're talking about needing at the very least 70% of the population having antibodies in a relatively short space of time, which might even be on the low side giving the threshold for other infections like polio and measles (taken from your link)

Whatsisname

one armed dwarf wrote: »

Similarly there are those who will lap up any contrarian viewpoint as long as it seems to back up their position. As almost none of us are ourselves epidemiologists we rely on advice from experts cause a once in a century pandemic isn't something you can wing or learn about through a youtube tutorial. Qualified knowledge in a field is relevant, so is achieving scientific consensus.

So what would our herd immunity strategy look like then? Because we're talking about needing at the very least 70% of the population having antibodies in a relatively short space of time, which might even be on the low side giving the threshold for other infections like polio and measles (taken from your link)

I've already said I don't believe herd immunity is a tactic to use, but my point is there was a clear message put out that it didn't exist at all without vaccination. Which never made sense, because if that was the case, humans would have been wiped out hundreds of years ago.

It's an end result, not a tactic.

walus

one armed dwarf wrote: »

Similarly there are those who will lap up any contrarian viewpoint as long as it seems to back up their position. As almost none of us are ourselves epidemiologists we rely on advice from experts cause a once in a century pandemic isn't something you can wing or learn about through a youtube tutorial. Qualified knowledge in a field is relevant, so is achieving scientific consensus.

So what would our herd immunity strategy look like then? Because we're talking about needing at the very least 70% of the population having antibodies in a relatively short space of time, which might even be on the low side giving the threshold for other infections like polio and measles (taken from your link)

Same applies to nphet btw when it comes to expertise in epidemiology.

As for the the antibodies, did you take into account the immunity to COVID that comes from T-cells?

Boggles

walus wrote: »

Same applies to nphet btw when it comes to expertise in epidemiology.

NPHET have an entire epidemiology department at their disposal.

FintanMcluskey

Boggles wrote: »

NPHET have an entire epidemiology department at their disposal.

All the resources they have and they still made a pigs snout out of the whole thing.

I still think a human behavioural psychologist would offer useful advice

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I still think a human behavioural psychologist would offer useful advice

They have a whole sub group.

walus

walus wrote: »

Same applies to nphet btw when it comes to expertise in epidemiology.

As for the the antibodies, did you take into account the immunity to COVID that comes from T-cells?

That comes after exposure to the virus

Whatsisname

Whatsisname wrote: »

15th October, (2 weeks or so after the Great Barrington Declaration came out) they changed it to



https://web.archive.org/web/20201222131927/https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/herd-immunity-lockdowns-and-covid-19

31st of December they changed it to what you posted.

The WHO and the media can put out any old **** they want and it'll be lapped up.

Further on in your same link

Attempts to reach ‘herd immunity’ through exposing people to a virus are scientifically problematic and unethical. Letting COVID-19 spread through populations, of any age or health status will lead to unnecessary infections, suffering and death.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Again the people who complain about pints being discussed are the same people bringing pints into the discussion constantly.

So because he mentioned pints in the past that’s obviously all he cares about. Ok...

This searching through posters history is a little bizarre as well, but whatever makes you happy.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

So because he mentioned pints in the past that’s obviously all he cares about. Ok...

This searching through posters history is a little bizarre as well, but whatever makes you happy.

I didn't search anyone's history, he made both those statements today.

:rolleyes:

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

I didn't search anyone's history, he made both those statements today.

:rolleyes:

You’ve done it several times lately. It’s just bizarre to me, but again, if it makes you happy then fair enough.

The pints thing is beyond pathetic at this point.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

You’ve done it several times lately. It’s just bizarre to me, but again, if it makes you happy then fair enough.

Are you referring to your post about easing restrictions 2 days before Christmas?

I didn't have to search for it, I remembered it because I replied to it at the time.

Some opinion just sticks out.

I suppose you are going to tell me I can't read my own posts now?

weldoninhio

Boggles wrote: »

Denmark are going off manual with their spacing regime, they have also ran out of vaccine AFAIK and are awaiting new doses.

Also this obsession with who is winning the 'Vaccine Cup' is pretty remedial.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus/pen-and-paper-used-to-record-vaccines-as-it-system-not-in-place-yet-d%C3%A1il-told-1.4458313?fbclid=IwAR2k-crQqKFh2XRnMdBDbJjk55JZIfm1zmwfPZ87RSq24YSfwOwZ92qjrcw

Dr Berry, who is a medical doctor, expressed concern that the IT system “does not work at all” and added if a person goes to a nursing home and opens their laptop they “cannot input any data from a vaccine perspective at all, which is a major problem”.

He said “in effect, we are combining 21st century cutting-edge vaccine medicine with a 13th century means of recording it, which is simply a pencil and paper”.


We are masters of the Screw-Up Cup.