Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Are you referring to your post about easing restrictions 2 days before Christmas?

I didn't have to search for it, I remembered it because I replied to it at the time.

Some opinion just sticks out.

I suppose you are going to tell me I can't read my own posts now?

What I said is we didn’t need lockdown. And we don’t. It’s led to thousands of cases a day.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

What I said is we didn’t need lockdown. And we don’t. It’s led to thousands of cases a day.

Cribbons.

I give up.

Boggles

weldoninhio wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus/pen-and-paper-used-to-record-vaccines-as-it-system-not-in-place-yet-d%C3%A1il-told-1.4458313?fbclid=IwAR2k-crQqKFh2XRnMdBDbJjk55JZIfm1zmwfPZ87RSq24YSfwOwZ92qjrcw

Dr Berry, who is a medical doctor, expressed concern that the IT system “does not work at all” and added if a person goes to a nursing home and opens their laptop they “cannot input any data from a vaccine perspective at all, which is a major problem”.

He said “in effect, we are combining 21st century cutting-edge vaccine medicine with a 13th century means of recording it, which is simply a pencil and paper”.


We are masters of the Screw-Up Cup.

He said an information technology (IT) system had been delivered to the HSE at the end of December. “Additional functionality is being added but it is not needed yet,” he said.

“ Anyway, we will very much need the IT system when we go out to the GPs and pharmacies. I am told that we will be ready for when it is required, which is, most likely, next month sometime.”

IBM are involved in the design AFAIK.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Cribbons.

I give up.

I gave up a long time back. People believe that long hard lockdown is the ONLY solution. Well we’ve been locked down for the best part of a year and we have thousands of cases a day and are really not doing well at all.

The government and NPHET have near brainwashed the population into believing that alcohol and socialising is the problem.

That only deflects from the real issues. Our tracing failed badly. We never bothered putting proper steps in place at the airport. We didn’t do nearly enough to boost hospital capacity. We did nothing in nursing homes but send those poor folk to the slaughter.

But yeah, more lockdown and keep blaming pints and pubs that are closed.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

I gave up a long time back. People believe that long hard lockdown is the ONLY solution. Well we’ve been locked down for the best part of a year and we have thousands of cases a day and are really not doing well at all.

The government and NPHET have near brainwashed the population into believing that alcohol and socialising is the problem.

That only deflects from the real issues. Our tracing failed badly. We never bothered putting proper steps in place at the airport. We didn’t do nearly enough to boost hospital capacity. We did nothing in nursing homes but send those poor folk to the slaughter.

But yeah, more lockdown and keep blaming pints and pubs that are closed.

That's an extremely naive view of what is going on, more a toe in conspiracies than reality TBH.

But I think we can both agree if we eased restrictions 2 days before Christmas like you suggested we would be in far more difficult place right now.

SnuggyBear

Boggles wrote: »

Cribbons.

I give up.

Dont lie. You will still be here all day every day posting

FintanMcluskey

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Dont lie. You will still be here all day every day posting

And he loves it here if he’s honest.

Great intellectual debate and no hysteria.

The main thread can get a man down

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

That's an extremely naive view of what is going on, more a toe in conspiracies than reality TBH.

But I think we can both agree if we eased restrictions 2 days before Christmas like you suggested we would be in far more difficult place right now.

If we had eased restrictions a lot more between May and October, we would likely would have had slightly more cases, hospitalisations and deaths but we would have avoided such a sharp peak like we’ve seen now.

More people in controlled environments is good. More people catching it over a longer period is good. Compliance will be much higher as well if lockdown is needed.

If you ever manage people, you will know that punishment, blame, finger wagging etc are not good ways to get buy in.

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

And he loves it here if he’s honest.

Great intellectual debate and no hysteria.

The main thread can get a man down

:pac:

average_runner

Deleted User wrote: »

If we had eased restrictions a lot more between May and October, we would likely would have had slightly more cases, hospitalisations and deaths but we would have avoided such a sharp peak like we’ve seen now.

More people in controlled environments is good. More people catching it over a longer period is good. Compliance will be much higher as well if lockdown is needed.

If you ever manage people, you will know that punishment, blame, finger wagging etc are not good ways to get buy in.

Did England not do this and still seeing record numbers now?

France also!!
Germany also!!

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

If we had eased restrictions a lot more between May and October, we would likely would have had slightly more cases, hospitalisations and deaths but we would have avoided such a sharp peak like we’ve seen now.
.

Okay, why didn't that happen in the UK / Germany?

Thoughts?

average_runner

average_runner wrote: »

Did England not do this and still seeing record numbers now?

France also!!
Germany also!!

We’re the worst though last time I checked.
And less compliance as a result of endless lockdown and fatigue.

average_runner

Deleted User wrote: »

We’re the worst though last time I checked.
And less compliance as a result of endless lockdown and fatigue.

Think you find Germany had way more deaths this time and around 4 times more cases.


Uk cases are up over 5 times and more deaths this time also!!

average_runner

Deleted User wrote: »

We’re the worst though last time I checked.
And less compliance as a result of endless lockdown and fatigue.

Compliance is coming back, numbers are dropping, people are limiting their interactions.


We were given our chance to prove the government and NPHET wrong, that we could behave with care, but sadly a minority group has given all the power back to NPHET to run this whatever way they want!!!!

average_runner

average_runner wrote: »

Think you find Germany had way more deaths this time and around 4 times more cases.


Uk cases are up over 5 times and more deaths this time also!!

But then, using that logic, Can you really blame Ireland’s peak on 3 weeks of level 3 restrictions?

The same is happening in other countries regardless of what they done.

No lockdown or hard lockdown, the virus appears to hit hard when it chooses.

average_runner

Deleted User wrote: »

But then, using that logic, Can you really blame Ireland’s peak on 3 weeks of level 3 restrictions?

The same is happening in other countries regardless of what they done.

No lockdown or hard lockdown, the virus appears to hit hard when it chooses.

Germany tough lockdown didnt happen till late Dec, same in Holland. Even at that their lockdown was not as hard as ours as cases still high.


Uk were later than us with theirs!

walus

Deleted User wrote: »

That comes after exposure to the virus

I don’t think so. Large portion of the world’s population will never get a chance to develop antibodies when exposed to the virus because the T-cells attack and destroy the virus immediately. It is the B-cells that produce the antibodies and a lot of times these do not even get a chance to react.

In one study conducted by the Germans in a region with population of around 13 thousand people, only 15% tested positively for antibodies when COVID swept through it. People from the households that were Covid positive were testing negative for the virus and no antibodies were present in their bodies. The Germans concluded that the prime immunological reaction was provided by the T-cells and that large portion of the population is inherently immune to Covid.

Silentcorner

Deleted User wrote: »

But then, using that logic, Can you really blame Ireland’s peak on 3 weeks of level 3 restrictions?

The same is happening in other countries regardless of what they done.

No lockdown or hard lockdown, the virus appears to hit hard when it chooses.

They don't seem to get it, I am not an expert, but I think it would be fairly safe to assume that

Exposure to previous Covid viruses
Age of the Population
Health of the Population
Climate of the country
Density of the cities
Standard of aged healthcare facilities
Time of the year

The severity of last years Flu Season

State of the Health Facilities
State of the Health System Management

Are all mitigating factors in determining the outcomes for this virus.

Lockdowns don't seem to affect the outcomes much or at all over the 10 month period.

Didn't we just record a very low death rate in December, I can't find it but I'm sure I saw that somewhere....if true, we should expect a bump this or next month, as callous as that may sound, I don't mean to belittle anyone.

Restrictions during certain peak time's make sense, protection of the vulnerable demographics, but lockdowns don't seem to work.

normanoffside

NPHET are really being pushed by one journalist on the number of Hospital cases that acquired it in Hospital and asking for specific data (which they don't have to hand, quelle surprise :rolleyes:).

But apparently 1/3 of all deaths currently are from people who acquired covid while already in hospital for something else.

normanoffside

normanoffside wrote: »

NPHET are really being pushed by one journalist on the number of Hospital cases that acquired it in Hospital and asking for specific date (which they don't have to hand, quelle surprise :rolleyes:).

But apparently 1/3 of all deaths currently are from people who acquired covid while already in hospital for something else.

Did I read it right, but was it confirmed that 50% of hospitalisations acquired Covid in hospital?

These are shocking figures!!! Disgraceful.

How can we be SO bad a year into this. No doubt Holohan will still be saying that the virus loves alcohol.

No Tony, the virus loves hospitals and nursing homes. Sort it out.

normanoffside

Deleted User wrote: »

Did I read it right, but was it confirmed that 50% of hospitalisations acquired Covid in hospital?

These are shocking figures!!! Disgraceful.

How can we be SO bad a year into this. No doubt Holohan will still be saying that the virus loves alcohol.

No Tony, the virus loves hospitals and nursing homes. Sort it out.

Yes, and 1/3 of all recent deaths acquired it in Hospital.
Dr Glynn repeated the mantra that absolutely nothing could be done to stop it spreading in hospitals when it's high in the community.

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

What I said is we didn’t need lockdown. And we don’t. It’s led to thousands of cases a day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hi9-5F2zW4

You disagree with this concept? Can you explain in finer detail your rationale?

normanoffside

normanoffside wrote: »

Yes, and 1/3 of all recent deaths acquired it in Hospital.
Dr Glynn repeated the mantra that absolutely nothing could be done to stop it spreading in hospitals when it's high in the community.

Ahhh... it’s like beating your head against a wall.

How can they honestly say that there is nothing that can be done to prevent the huge numbers spreading in hospitals and nursing homes.

FintanMcluskey

Interesting paper on the closure of businesses effects on spread of Covid and the side effects of forcing socialising into the home.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/348270406_Assessing_Mandatory_Stay-at-Home_and_Business_Closure_Effects_on_the_Spread_of_COVID-19/fulltext/5ff5c62945851553a023308d/Assessing-Mandatory-Stay-at-Home-and-Business-Closure-Effects-on-the-Spread-of-COVID-19.pdf?origin=publication_detail

In other words, it is possible that stay-at-home orders may facilitate transmission if they increase person-to-person contact where transmission is efficient such as closed spaces.

Which is of course what many here have been saying for some time now

Boggles

In other words, it is possible that stay-at-home orders may facilitate transmission if they increase person-to-person contact where transmission is efficient such as closed spaces

Wow. That is batshít.

Those herd immunity loons are churning out some amount of bollix.

I read one of their "papers" last night, they championed South Korea's mitigation strategy without mentioning masks once.

Looney Tunes!

walus

walus wrote: »

I don’t think so. Large portion of the world’s population will never get a chance to develop antibodies when exposed to the virus because the T-cells attack and destroy the virus immediately. It is the B-cells that produce the antibodies and a lot of times these do not even get a chance to react.

In one study conducted by the Germans in a region with population of around 13 thousand people, only 15% tested positively for antibodies when COVID swept through it. People from the households that were Covid positive were testing negative for the virus and no antibodies were present in their bodies. The Germans concluded that the prime immunological reaction was provided by the T-cells and that large portion of the population is inherently immune to Covid.

Pre existing resistance, probably through exposure to other coronavirus relatively recently probably plays a part in mild / a symptomatic infection. Kidd especially have an immune system trained to novel coronaviruses as all variants are novel to their immune system. If you don’t have any residual T cell resistance though, the only way to develop it is to catch the virus or get vaccinated

FintanMcluskey

Boggles wrote: »

Wow. That is batshít.

Those herd immunity loons are churning out some amount of bollix.

I read one of their "papers" last night, they championed South Korea's mitigation strategy without mentioning masks once.

Looney Tunes!

Is the only argument left now reduced to petty insults?

The term “herd immunity loon” is the equivalent of a those in a cult referring to others as “heathens”

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Is the only argument left now reduced to petty insults?

The term “herd immunity loon” is the equivalent of a those in a cult referring to others as “heathens”

There is no argument left, they have been debunked repeatedly.

Have you read any of their papers Fintan? because I unfortunately have.

It's a vain and misguided attempt at validation of their continuously wrong assumptions throughout this whole pandemic.

Any fúcktard pushing for herd immunity when 4 vaccines are about to come online is a dangerous fúcking simpleton that should be confined to the cesspit on the fringe side of Twitter.

FintanMcluskey

Boggles wrote: »

There is no argument left, they have been debunked repeatedly.

Have you read any of their papers Fintan? because I unfortunately have.

It's a vain and misguided attempt at validation of their continuously wrong assumptions throughout this whole pandemic.

Any fúcktard pushing for herd immunity when 4 vaccines are about to come online is a dangerous fúcking simpleton that should be confined to the cesspit on the fringe side of Twitter.

You didn’t read it so, the above is evidence of so.

It’s examining the effectiveness of “stay at home orders” and “businesses closures”.

Seems the initial mitigation measures are more cost effective and more likely to have greater effect, as we seen in Ireland last October, then stay at home orders.

That doesn’t mean they are suggesting herd immunity is more cost effective than extreme mitigation measures, it suggests the extreme measures aren’t as effective and reducing transmission as masks wearing, social distancing and reducing numbers indoors.

If you debate with the argument that’s actually being made as opposed to one you have just imagined it will help your credibility

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

You didn’t read it so, the above is evidence of so.

It’s examining the effectiveness of “stay at home orders” and “businesses closures”.

Seems the initial mitigation measures are more cost effective and more likely to have greater effect, as we seen in Ireland last October, then stay at home orders.

If you debate with the argument that’s actually being made as opposed to one you have just imagined it will help your credibility

Here is a paper I just finished.

Less Restrictions = More Virus

More Restrictions = Less Virus

I can furnish you with 3 recent examples from the actual country you live in if you like?