Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

CIARAN_BOYLE

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I’m presuming any fcuk ups will be on the DOH/HSE’s end. Let’s call a spade a spade here, they will be!

I really doubt it.

We managed 1.4 million flu vaccines in about 6 weeks last year.

This wonr be much harder with a load of extra resources.

Captain_Crash

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I really doubt it.

We managed 1.4 million flu vaccines in about 6 weeks last year.

This wonr be much harder with a load of extra resources.

I hope your right and I’ll buy you a pint if it’s all done smoothly by then! We’ll know come September

Pitch n Putt

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I’m presuming any fcuk ups will be on the DOH/HSE’s end. Let’s call a spade a spade here, they will be!

Will anyone be held accountable when said fcuk ups occur :rolleyes:

Absolutely not. We’ll have a tribunal of investigation costing millions and still no accountability will be apportioned to either the HSE cartel or the government.

The vaccine rollout out task force might get a slap on the wrists for some minor reason.

FintanMcluskey

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/up-to-23-people-died-this-month-after-contracting-virus-in-hospital-outbreak-39971044.html

It follows revelations by the HSE that in some unnamed hospitals, which have suffered major outbreaks of the virus, half the patients with Covid-19 caught it after admission with another illness.

When questioned on above Glynn had no data, but I did enjoy the irony within the next chestnut

It is essential we “keep this up” for long periods of time but Google location data for January 10 showed the level of attendance at workplaces was at 50pc, much higher than in the first lockdown.

His team of 40 white collar cronies would be better utilised trying to determine why 50% of cases in hospital contracted the disease in hospital.

CIARAN_BOYLE

If it's the community they cant keep it out.

They've admitted that a few times as early as last April or May. They can do their best to reduce the risk but they cant keep it out.

Pitch n Putt

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I really doubt it.

We managed 1.4 million flu vaccines in about 6 weeks last year.

This wonr be much harder with a load of extra resources.

We hardly had to write down the names of everyone that got the flu vaccine on a notepad ?

Imagine actually coming out and saying it’s a pen and paper exercise with this vaccine. Lord God.

It’s not like anyone had any idea that this vaccine was coming along and some records might need to be kept.

It actually beggars belief.

How do we put up with such incompetence in this country...

FintanMcluskey

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

If it's the community they cant keep it out.

They've admitted that a few times as early as last April or May. They can do their best to reduce the risk but they cant keep it out.

Can’t see how stay at home orders and closing of gyms and other retail not linked to outbreaks is cost effective

CIARAN_BOYLE

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Can’t see how stay at home orders and closing of gyms and other retail not linked to outbreaks is cost effective

What % of our transmission is community transmissions (ie it occurred somewhere they couldn't find the source).

I think we have to assume that non essential retail (where it's impossible to identify who was in the shop at the same time as you) can be blamed for many of these.

Captain_Crash

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

What % of our transmission is community transmissions (ie it occurred somewhere they couldn't find the source).

I think we have to assume that non essential retail (where it's impossible to identify who was in the shop at the same time as you) can be blamed for many of these.

I think it would be fair to say if transmission was widespread in those settings we’d have identified a large number of clusters. I don’t for one second think no one caught it in a shop or a gym, but I don’t think it is or was a major case driver!

If for example there were 1000 clusters caused by retail in the few weeks they were open, surely we’d have identified even 100 of them, or 80 or 50! Either that or our test and trace is even worse than they’d have us believe!

CIARAN_BOYLE

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I think it would be fair to say if transmission was widespread in those settings we’d have identified a large number of clusters. I don’t for one second think no one caught it in a shop or a gym, but I don’t think it is or was a major case driver!

If for example there were 1000 clusters caused by retail in the few weeks they were open, surely we’d have identified even 100 of them, or 80 or 50! Either that or our test and trace is even worse than they’d have us believe!

Let's say I have covid and the contact tracers get in touch.

My easy contacts are my parents and 2 people I work with.

Then I was shopping g but they cant identify any contacts as theres no way to find out who was in the shop at the same time as I was.

Contacts cant be identified therefore there are no clusters.

The gym might be different as theres a sign in system. I'm not sure if contact tracing would pull everyone in the gym in or just say I assume you weren't in the same areas as someone for long enough to be a contact.

Captain_Crash

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Let's say I have covid and the contact tracers get in touch.

My easy contacts are my parents and 2 people I work with.

Then I was shopping g but they cant identify any contacts as theres no way to find out who was in the shop at the same time as I was.

Contacts cant be identified therefore there are no clusters.

The gym might be different as theres a sign in system. I'm not sure if contact tracing would pull everyone in the gym in or just say I assume you weren't in the same areas as someone for long enough to be a contact.

I don’t know how the contact tracing works, I haven’t interacted with it at all! But my understanding is something as follows

Person A: Saw the parents & went to “default shop”
Person B: Shagged the mrs and done some shopping
Person C: Ah yeah I live alone but was in a default shop
Person Was just at work in the default shop

They would see a clear pattern of people who tested positive being in the same place and can deduce a cluster or atleast a rate of transmission! I’m basing this on the presumption that any positive case is asked general questions about their movements over the preceding days! If they aren’t, well isn’t that a problem in itself?

Lundstram

Easier to blame Joe Soap rather than people on massive salaries taking responsibility.

https://twitter.com/johnjgreene/status/1349841776316735488?s=21

CIARAN_BOYLE

I dont think they deduce a contact from presence in the same shop at the same time.

Their focus is trying to identify contacts for testing. I don't think they care.

Boggles

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I don’t know how the contact tracing works, I haven’t interacted with it at all! But my understanding is something as follows

Basically

They go back 48 hours, if you were in the presence of someone maskless inside for 15 minutes within 2 meters you might be considered a contact.

All contact tracing was paused during the recent spike.

There was talk about expanding this a couple of months ago to build up a profile but I don't know if they did or not.

Captain_Crash

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I dont think they deduce a contact from presence in the same shop at the same time.

Their focus is trying to identify contacts for testing. I don't think they care.

If they know a large number of people who have tested positive were in the same general area in the same general time you can deduce that it’s likely a source of transmission. If it’s only a few people it wouldn’t be enough but with the number of cases we’ve had, we should have swaths of data! So if 1000 people who tested positive were in Grafton St one weekend, it’s safe to say there were clusters in Grafton St that weekend!

So we either have that data and aren’t using it or are just not collecting it to begin with! Contact tracers should care where transmission is occurring and it should be more than an exercise in finding people to test!

My conclusion is that either retail is a non significant driver of cases our or tracing process is so greatly flawed that it could well be more damaging to our decision making!

Captain_Crash

Captain_Crash wrote: »

If they know a large number of people who have tested positive were in the same general area in the same general time you can deduce that it’s likely a source of transmission. If it’s only a few people it wouldn’t be enough but with the number of cases we’ve had, we should have swaths of data! So if 1000 people who tested positive were in Grafton St one weekend, it’s safe to say there were clusters in Grafton St that weekend!

So we either have that data and aren’t using it or are just not collecting it to begin with! Contact tracers should care where transmission is occurring and it should be more than an exercise in finding people to test!

My conclusion is that either retail is a non significant driver of cases our or tracing process is so greatly flawed that it could well be more damaging to our decision making!

The level of data you are looking would require an individual investigator for every single case. Plus at a level where one in a thousand are getting the virus every day there would be loads of people who happened to be in the same place and happened to get the virus with no epidemiological link resulting in investigators chasing non existent links.

Kermit.de.frog

Lundstram wrote: »

Easier to blame Joe Soap rather than people on massive salaries taking responsibility.

https://twitter.com/johnjgreene/status/1349841776316735488?s=21

Maybe some Joe Soaps are to blame?

Nothing untrue I can see about the statement.

Do you think people who earn more shouldn't be allowed express an opinion?

one armed dwarf

I don't even want to begin to think of how difficult it must be to contain a highly transmissible airborne virus in a building rife with people suffering from it. By all accounts the UK variant is even more airborne.

MOH

Boggles wrote: »

Basically

They go back 48 hours, if you were in the presence of someone maskless inside for 15 minutes within 2 meters you might be considered a contact.

All contact tracing was paused during the recent spike.

There was talk about expanding this a couple of months ago to build up a profile but I don't know if they did or not.

They were supposed to be doing a trial over 500 cases in October, going back 14 days instead of 2, and doing the same on a wider basis from some time in early December.

I don't know if the former ever happened, and I presume the latter was abandoned, if it ever started.

Captain_Crash wrote: »

So if 1000 people who tested positive were in Grafton St one weekend, it’s safe to say there were clusters in Grafton St that weekend!

So we either have that data and aren’t using it or are just not collecting it to begin with! Contact tracers should care where transmission is occurring and it should be more than an exercise in finding people to test!

And that would seem like a fairly logical approach to anyone.
The WHO have said tracing and identifying clusters, and isolating contacts is one of the best methods to curtail outbreaks.

Yet despite Cillian de Gascun assuring us in July that we had such a system in place, we clearly never did if we were only going back 2 days. And Philip Nolan dismissed going back further to identify the source of transmission as "an academic exercise". He also stated that they didn't have the resources to do it, despite the fact that they were standing down contact tracing centres in June/July because there wasn't enough for them to do as cases were down to a dozen a day. Yet that was the ideal time to be doing, and get a full picture of exactly how transmission was happening as the country was opening back up.

So no, we've never had a proper contact tracing strategy, and our whole assessment of risk and consequent decision making is based purely on circumstantial evidence and guesswork. No wonder we're doing so well.

Lundstram

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Maybe some Joe Soaps are to blame?

Nothing untrue I can see about the statement.

Do you think people who earn more shouldn't be allowed express an opinion?

I think people like Paul Reid on a disgusting €350k per year needs to take responsibility rather than going on the LLS for a nice cosy interview with Tubridy and essentially blaming the public for all our woes.

Start earning that grossly undeserved salary paid by the very paid he’s blaming.

bb1234567

walus wrote: »

Only 10%? How do you know that?

Probably based on the fact countries like Uk are estimated to have only seen 20% infection rate
https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2021/jan/10/one-in-five-have-had-coronavirus-in-england-new-modelling-says

FintanMcluskey

one armed dwarf wrote: »

I don't even want to begin to think of how difficult it must be to contain a highly transmissible airborne virus in a building rife with people suffering from it. By all accounts the UK variant is even more airborne.

But you have no problem thinking about how to contain the virus in the community despite it’s not actually responsible for all the hospitalisation’s?

average_runner

Lundstram wrote: »

I think people like Paul Reid on a disgusting €350k per year needs to take responsibility rather than going on the LLS for a nice cosy interview with Tubridy and essentially blaming the public for all our woes.

Start earning that grossly undeserved salary paid by the very paid he’s blaming.

To be honest, we all need to take responsibility, we all need to try and identify areas of improvement we can make if any.

FintanMcluskey

Lundstram wrote: »

I think people like Paul Reid on a disgusting €350k per year needs to take responsibility rather than going on the LLS for a nice cosy interview with Tubridy and essentially blaming the public for all our woes.

Start earning that grossly undeserved salary paid by the very paid he’s blaming.

It’s essentially white collar vs blue collar

We know which one will pay hardest for this

one armed dwarf

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

But you have no problem thinking about how to contain the virus in the community despite it’s not actually responsible for all the hospitalisation’s?

Does the entire community live in a building full of severely sick covid patients where covid can persist in the air for hours?

Kermit.de.frog

Lundstram wrote: »

I think people like Paul Reid on a disgusting €350k per year needs to take responsibility rather than going on the LLS for a nice cosy interview with Tubridy and essentially blaming the public for all our woes.

Start earning that grossly undeserved salary paid by the very paid he’s blaming.

What makes you think it's undeserved?

Do you know what the job entails?

Seems like plain old begrudgery when people go after others that earn more than them simply on that basis.

You're suggesting facts should not be stated on the basis of salary. Or that it offends you for some undefined reason other than "salary".

The statement is entirely correct but you don't care about that, you jump to how much someone earns.

Boggles

Covid spreads in building where most sick covid patients are shocker!

God forbid but if any of ye are hospitalized with Covid and gasping for oxygen ye may forget to cough into yer elbow once or twice.

Allinall

Lundstram wrote: »

I think people like Paul Reid on a disgusting €350k per year needs to take responsibility rather than going on the LLS for a nice cosy interview with Tubridy and essentially blaming the public for all our woes.

Start earning that grossly undeserved salary paid by the very paid he’s blaming.

How many people did Paul Reid infect?

What, in your opinion should he do ( which he isn't already doing) to start earning his salary?

I see the Irish Council Of Civil Liberties are complaining about the new fines being issued now.

FintanMcluskey

Deleted User wrote: »

I see the Irish Council Of Civil Liberties are complaining about the new fines being issued now.

Interesting that Madrid has been operating as relatively normal since October after the regional court ruled that the mitigation measures breached residents fundamental rights.