Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

On a related note, it’s sad in general that one year into this and people are desperately clutching at straws to try make it seem like this illness is lethal to younger people.

Every stat available proves otherwise.

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

This virus loves hospitals and nursing homes.

It’s not surprising though to see younger people in ICU. First of all, they may be in ICU for an entirely different reason and just happened to test positive while there. But chances of survival in ICU are extremely high. Probably we admit people who do t really need it.

But also, we know that most Covid deaths are too sick for ICU anyways. Median age of deaths is 82 today.

This is just using uninformed and unqualified speculation to justify endless denial.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This is just using uninformed and unqualified speculation to justify endless denial.

Perhaps, if we didn’t admit that 50% of hospitalisations acquired Covid in hospital.

Kermit.de.frog

Ireland now a "cautionary tale" for Germany...having lifted restrictions before Christmas (when of course most of Europe were tightening theirs)

A dreadful policy error.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/merkel-urges-new-restrictions-amid-german-alarm-on-irish-infection-rates-1.4459535

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Ireland now a "cautionary tale" for Germany...having lifted restrictions before Christmas (when of course most of Europe were tightening theirs)

A dreadful policy error.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/merkel-urges-new-restrictions-amid-german-alarm-on-irish-infection-rates-1.4459535

Everything you post implies stay locked down to avoid lockdown...

This country has been locked down for 3 months now with the exception of 3 weeks at level 3.

At what point do you accept that the strategy is and has failed?

If you had your way, you’d bankrupt this country with lockdown until early 2022 at least.

Parabellum9

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Everything you post implies stay locked down to avoid lockdown...

This country has been locked down for 3 months now with the exception of 3 weeks at level 3.

At what point do you accept that the strategy is and has failed?

If you had your way, you’d bankrupt this country with lockdown until early 2022 at least.

How did people dare enjoy their Christmas?? Could they not have just spent it alone like the majority of 2020 and the first half of 2021? ****ing granny killers...

average_runner

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Everything you post implies stay locked down to avoid lockdown...

This country has been locked down for 3 months now with the exception of 3 weeks at level 3.

At what point do you accept that the strategy is and has failed?

If you had your way, you’d bankrupt this country with lockdown until early 2022 at least.

Should never of lifted the restrictions, europe was a warning sign. We are paying dearly for it now.

Boggles

acequion wrote: »

And you seem to spend your time permanently on here which I find a bit bizarre. And permanently making patronising and often insulting remarks, which when I spot, I call you out on. Such as the emboldened above.

Fair play to you, keep on trucking.

iamwhoiam

acequion wrote: »

And you seem to spend your time permanently on here which I find a bit bizarre. And permanently making patronising and often insulting remarks, which when I spot, I call you out on. Such as the emboldened above.

Been like that for months . I would simply blank .

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Ireland now a "cautionary tale" for Germany...having lifted restrictions before Christmas (when of course most of Europe were tightening theirs)

A dreadful policy error.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/merkel-urges-new-restrictions-amid-german-alarm-on-irish-infection-rates-1.4459535

We may well be a cautionary take for Germany, they however have had more deaths per million than us despite have 50% less cases per million

FintanMcluskey

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Ireland now a "cautionary tale" for Germany...having lifted restrictions before Christmas (when of course most of Europe were tightening theirs)

A dreadful policy error.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/merkel-urges-new-restrictions-amid-german-alarm-on-irish-infection-rates-1.4459535

The only country that needs to learn how to balance mitigation measures is Ireland. Hopefully it’s soon realised unnecessary mitigation measures are counter productive.

This country’s response has been a complete failure when the fact it’s had the EUs longest, most costly and most suppressive mitigation measures is taken into account.


I assume across Europe the hospital stats are similar? As in, 50% of those in hospital contracted the disease there?

acequion

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Been like that for months . I would simply blank .

You're probably right. This thread seems to have unfortunately been taken over by such types.

FintanMcluskey

Deleted User wrote: »

We may well be a cautionary take for Germany, they however have had more deaths per million than us despite have 50% less cases per million

They didn’t actually have more deaths pro rata population over 65.

18 million citizens in Germany are over 65. That’s a staggering number of vulnerable.

It’s about 27 times the number of vulnerable citizens Ireland have.

bb1234567

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The only country that needs to learn how to balance mitigation measures is Ireland. Hopefully it’s soon realised unnecessary mitigation measures are counter productive.

This country’s response has been a complete failure when the fact it’s had the EUs longest, most costly and most suppressive mitigation measures is taken into account.


I assume across Europe the hospital stats are similar? As in, 50% of those in hospital contracted the disease there?

Surprisingly it's much lower in other countries.
Only 1 in 4 UK COVID patients acquired it in hospital
https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n70#:~:text=Still%2C%20the%20numbers%20are%20alarming,by%2035%25%20in%20one%20week.

FintanMcluskey

bb1234567 wrote: »

Surprisingly it's much lower in other countries.
Only 1 in 4 UK COVID patients acquired it in hospital
https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n70#:~:text=Still%2C%20the%20numbers%20are%20alarming,by%2035%25%20in%20one%20week.

Ah, that’s interesting information.

Something is gravely wrong with procedures in Irish hospitals it seems

Kermit.de.frog

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

This country’s response has been a complete failure when the fact it’s had the EUs longest, most costly and most suppressive mitigation measures is taken into account.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM-e46xdcUo

Irish Steve

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ah, that’s interesting information.

Something is gravely wrong with procedures in Irish hospitals it seems

I would suggest that a lot of the problems are not procedures, it's the physical building, way too many of our hospitals are in ancient former workhouses and the like that are totally unsuited to maintaining sensible airflows, or separation of patients, or even separation of staff during breaks and the like.

Some are little more than converted prison style accomodation, and there is no reasonable way to upgrade them to meet modern standards of spacing, or negative airflow in wards.

There are also procedural issues with things like out patient appointments in some areas, the number of times we've sat in an overcrowded waiting room for several hours for outpatient appointments because the system calls too many people to come in at the same time, with there being no way that they can all be seen at that time, the result being a nightmare of all manner of infections being shared around the room for prolonged periods of time.

It's clear that there is a period of time when people can infect others without there being any evidence of them having the virus, and even testing them does not initially show that they are positive, so managing that is going to need some serious research work to find a way to identify those people in a different way, and for the sake of many people, the sooner the better, things like PCR tests that take 18 hours or more to provide a result are no help at all if the requirement is to prevent someone with the virus spreading it in places like hospitals and nursing homes.

manniot2

average_runner wrote: »

Should never of lifted the restrictions, europe was a warning sign. We are paying dearly for it now.

it was coming anyway. The longer you stay locked up, the bigger the release.

manniot2

we can thank fat tony for this. his entirely unnecessary october lockdown has resulted in this.

walus

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ah, that’s interesting information.

Something is gravely wrong with procedures in Irish hospitals it seems

Ah surely that cannot be it. It is all those thousands that after shopping for non essential goods come out, take the masks off and chat to their friends without observing social distancing rules.

Nonoperational

First day off tomorrow in 2 weeks working in a hospital in Dublin. Very large numbers of people from 50 up presenting with pneumonia. Not contracting it in hospital, not particularly unhealthy people before this. Very sobering.
Fair play to all the lads here with their ‘opinions’ about what’s really going on. Even if your number if up this year dying of pneumonia and sepsis is a hell of a ****ty way to go. People won’t and don’t care and will go out of their way to continue with the same narrative, I realise that now and I’m at peace with it. I’ve changed my tune considerably since Christmas tbh.

Kunta Kinte

hynesie08 wrote: »

The fact that you deciphered that from a 2 paragraph article that neither mentions or alludes to summer being cancelled is incredible. You missed your calling as a derective....

Maybe the poster is a clairvoyant?

Kunta Kinte

Nonoperational wrote: »

First day off tomorrow in 2 weeks working in a hospital in Dublin. Very large numbers of people from 50 up presenting with pneumonia. Not contracting it in hospital, not particularly unhealthy people before this. Very sobering.
Fair play to all the lads here with their ‘opinions’ about what’s really going on. Even if your number if up this year dying of pneumonia and sepsis is a hell of a ****ty way to go. People won’t and don’t care and will go out of their way to continue with the same narrative, I realise that now and I’m at peace with it. I’ve changed my tune considerably since Christmas tbh.

Pneumonia as a result of Covid?

rodneyTrotter.

Nonoperational wrote: »

First day off tomorrow in 2 weeks working in a hospital in Dublin. Very large numbers of people from 50 up presenting with pneumonia. Not contracting it in hospital, not particularly unhealthy people before this. Very sobering.
Fair play to all the lads here with their ‘opinions’ about what’s really going on. Even if your number if up this year dying of pneumonia and sepsis is a hell of a ****ty way to go. People won’t and don’t care and will go out of their way to continue with the same narrative, I realise that now and I’m at peace with it. I’ve changed my tune considerably since Christmas tbh.

Beaumount ?

normanoffside

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ah, that’s interesting information.

Something is gravely wrong with procedures in Irish hospitals it seems

Yep it's 100% terrible facilities.
Look at the conditions of ICU in Vincents

https://www.thejournal.ie/nurses-working-conditions-st-vincents-icu-5319046-Jan2021/

We need to seriously stop investing in HSE management and bureaucracy and start investing in doctors, nurses and modern hospitals.

Nonoperational

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

Pneumonia as a result of Covid?

Yep

Cork2021

Haven’t posted here in ages as it’s blatantly obvious we’ve needed Level 5 restrictions.
But these kind of tweets from journalists and to be fair I think Micheal Lehane isn’t the worst are in poor taste and without context. Pub owners might see this and think to themselves why? Is there any point anymore? Why is this coming out now in the second week of January... technically autumn starts in September.. so 9 more months of closure. There’s absolutely no business that can suffer a nearly 18 months closed.
To me the virus is seasonal, I’m not an expert but a simple google of flu season in Ireland gives a lot of info. We had over 1,000 people in hospital last January with flu and around 150 in icu. And similar in years gone by. Trolleys everywhere and elective procedures postponed.
Last summer for about 10 weeks we saw tiny numbers in hospital and case numbers small! It is obvious as well that COVID is more transmissible then the flu..
With the vaccine rollout happening and numbers of people vaccinated come the end of April I expect level two restrictions until end of June and level 1 from there on in. I can’t see traditional pubs opening before the Easter and the same with restaurants/gastro pubs.
Anyway it’ll all hinge on how many people we’ve vaccinated not just hear say from some numpty inside government spouting ****e!!

https://twitter.com/micheallehane/status/1350191082416562180?s=21

Juwwi

Deleted User wrote: »

This virus loves hospitals and nursing homes.

It’s not surprising though to see younger people in ICU. First of all, they may be in ICU for an entirely different reason and just happened to test positive while there. But chances of survival in ICU are extremely high. Probably we admit people who do t really need it.

But also, we know that most Covid deaths are too sick for ICU anyways. Median age of deaths is 82 today.

Jacdaniel you should write into the HSE and tell them why all the ICU beds around the country are filling up .
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

manniot2

I am genuinely shocked and depressed after seeing that tweet from Lehane. What a pathetic little country.

MOH

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Most rational adults understand the nature of the problem, take personal responsiblity, follow the rules, and get on with it.

They are the firm majority in wider society and i'm pretty sure they like to get out, go to restaurants and pubs, and meet people too...

Not sure why you think "following the rules" and "taking personal responsibility" are remotely linked.

It should be obviously to most rational adults who understand the nature of the problem that the former involves ticking the boxes of whatever "rules" are in place at that particular moment in time. The latter involves consideration of your own personal circumstances and how your interactions with others might affect the risk to both you and them.

In many cases you can absolutely "follow the rules" while increasing those risks. In many others you can minimise those risks without necessarily following all of the rules.

One thing the lengthy needlessly severe lockdowns does is increase people's tendency to forget about the second part once those rules are relaxed. Ultimately, if you treat people like children long enough they'll start behaving like them. And the fault there lies with you.

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

No unnecessary suppression leads to surges as people seek to socialise as much as possible in a short period of time.

I still can’t understand how so many don’t understand the psychology behind suppression.

Looking through the list of NPHET members, it's not clear how many, if any, of them are psychologists.

I'm not saying there aren't any, most are listed in their capacity as senior management of a related agency so possibly there is someone with an appropriate background. I assume there must be, the alternative is ridiculous.