Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

I'd be pretty sure the debate between governance and NPHET has been quite intense at times.

But who do you think should be involved in the debate that isn't?

I'm pretty sure we are at a level 3 hybrid at the minute, with restaurants and pubs to open Friday (against public health advice).

do you not think this whole against health advice is just to make the politicians look like they're on our side. they are well aware of the thinking now regarding the symbiosis betwixed the two...it's good cop bad cop..and in January it's back to the real deal bad cop & bad cop.. they have their voters to satisfy too you know. the country is close to elastic limit if we get stretched any further we wont be the same, those that do recover some form anyway..the rest will snap!

BeefeaterHat

weldoninhio wrote: »

Vast majority are HSE or DoH. Remove Covid from the equation. Lets pretend it's this time last year.

Out of 10, how well do you thing the people running the HSE have done over the past few years?? Yearly trolley crises without an end in sight, cervical cancer scandals, yearly court settlements in the 00s of millions, dead bodies being left on trolleys and leaking fluid all over the floor in Waterford.

These are the people you are placing your trust in to lead us through this sh1tshow??

Exactly Holohan, Glynn and co. are the same people who've been running the HSE into the ground for years. I don't know why some people act as if they've suddenly been struck with divine knowledge to deal with covid they're still the inept fools they've always been.

BeefeaterHat

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

I don't watch ivor Cummins but he's certainly not as bad as Sam McConkey going on rte predicting 100,000 plus deaths back in March and most recently talking down the vaccines.

Not to mention George Lee predicting 1000 deaths a day after Christmas despite the largest daily death toll globally being 8,500.

Ones a Trinity professor and the other is the science correspondent for rte and both are as egotistical and irresponsible as the other.

George is a political science man remember, regarded as the softest of all the sciences. Plus the first political scientist was supposed to be Machiavelli .says a lot for these lads. "better to be feared than loved...the ends justify the means... sound familiar!

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Vast majority are HSE or DoH. Remove Covid from the equation. Lets pretend it's this time last year.

Out of 10, how well do you thing the people running the HSE have done over the past few years?? Yearly trolley crises without an end in sight, cervical cancer scandals, yearly court settlements in the 00s of millions, dead bodies being left on trolleys and leaking fluid all over the floor in Waterford.

These are the people you are placing your trust in to lead us through this sh1tshow??

They are by and large qualified health professionals, even those who have progressed to admin roles.

Slightly more knowledgeable than Ivor.

And as has been pointed out multiple times, we dont have to implement their recommendations and on many occasions have not. But by all means let them be your bogeymen

Boggles

weldoninhio wrote: »

Not one qualification in infectious diseases, virology, epidemiology or anything at all pertaining to infectious disease, airborne disease, respiratory disease or pandemics. You've just backed my point up. Thanks.

Your "point" was to falsely represent Glynn's qualifications.

Silly really.

weldoninhio

Deleted User wrote: »

They are by and large qualified health professionals, even those who have progressed to admin roles.

Slightly more knowledgeable than Ivor.

And as has been pointed out multiple times, we dont have to implement their recommendations and on many occasions have not. But by all means let them be your bogeymen

So, out of 10?

Boggles

rusty cole wrote: »

do you not think this whole against health advice is just to make the politicians look like they're on our side. they are well aware of the thinking now regarding the symbiosis betwixed the two...it's good cop bad cop..and in January it's back to the real deal bad cop & bad cop.. they have their voters to satisfy too you know. the country is close to elastic limit if we get stretched any further we wont be the same, those that do recover some form anyway..the rest will snap!

You are over thinking it.

The charge was there is no debate, there clearly is.

BeefeaterHat

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

I don't watch ivor Cummins but he's certainly not as bad as Sam McConkey going on rte predicting 100,000 plus deaths back in March and most recently talking down the vaccines.

Not to mention George Lee predicting 1000 deaths a day after Christmas despite the largest daily death toll globally being 8,500.

Ones a Trinity professor and the other is the science correspondent for rte and both are as egotistical and irresponsible as the other.

McConkey is at least qualified to speak on the matter, even if he is on the extreme end of the spectrum and appears to be trying to appear relevant as he has had his hackles raised by not being asked to be involved in an official capacity.

George Lee has been speaking nonsense since his failed venture in to politics

BeefeaterHat

Boggles wrote: »

You are over thinking it.

The charge was there is no debate, there clearly is.

There really isn't much debate. We're going into lockdown after Christmas it's pretty much been guaranteed. Where was the debate on that?

Gervais08

[Deleted User] wrote: »

McConkey is at least qualified to speak on the matter, even if he is on the extreme end of the spectrum and appears to be trying to appear relevant as he has had his hackles raised by not being asked to be involved in an official capacity.

George Lee has been speaking nonsense since his failed venture in to politics

I know McConkey, lovely bloke and tbh he has been such a disappointment in the last 8 months.

I thought he’d be the light in this pandemic darkness - Jesus I don’t know where his head is at in this. Downplaying the vaccine ? Mad stuff.

Boggles

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

There really isn't much debate. We're going into lockdown after Christmas it's pretty much been guaranteed. Where was the debate on that?

You mean we may need to introduce further restrictions in order to curb the spread of the virus?

You obviously think that is a bad idea, what is the alternative and how would you achieve it?

BeefeaterHat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

McConkey is at least qualified to speak on the matter, even if he is on the extreme end of the spectrum and appears to be trying to appear relevant as he has had his hackles raised by not being asked to be involved in an official capacity.

George Lee has been speaking nonsense since his failed venture in to politics

McConkey and Lee might not have an official capacity in the measures but they still appear regularly on the television and radio and papers putting the frighteners on people. Especially the elderly who rely on tv and radio more than younger people do.

BeefeaterHat

Boggles wrote: »

You mean we may need to introduce further restrictions in order to curb the spread of the virus?

You obviously think that is a bad idea, what is the alternative and how would you achieve it?

I think it's a bad idea because it's simply not viable. While I'm not sure what the alternative is, I'm sure there is an alternative to level 5 indefinitely. It's not my job or anyone on boards to think up it's the boffins at NPHET who are being very well paid to use their imaginations.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

You are over thinking it.

The charge was there is no debate, there clearly is.

look there has been a 5 : 1 ratio of the usual suspects compared to an contra view ok, telling me I'm over thinking it or patting me on the back wont have me tacitly agree with you.

How can there be a debate when there's obvious media bias insofar as the HSE and RTE are concerned. It's not just the people here either, generally people are pi$$ed off and unfortunately you have to hear about it on evoke.ie over the national broadcaster and they're the very ones guilty of mixing it up.

This to me is again, like mass sleep deprivation. People are Desperate for a way out and so they are vulnerable at the same time. desperate people will agree to anything for a glimpse of what could be, even the old NORMAL...they'll roll up their sleeve and say yes to any new vaccine you give them. As per the swabs, will Claire and Ryan get the vaccine live on TV? their immunity from it has a six month shelf life after all, so they're as willing a as us it seems!
https://www.msn.com/en-ie/entertainment/tv/rt%c3%a9-accused-of-relentless-negativity-as-claire-byrne-live-leaves-viewers-deflated/ar-BB1bwEvF

Boggles

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

I think it's a bad idea because it's simply not viable. While I'm not sure what the alternative is, I'm sure there is an alternative to level 5 indefinitely. It's not my job or anyone on boards to think up it's the boffins at NPHET who are being very well paid to use their imaginations.

So you are saying you are woefully under qualified to comment?

In fairness that shouldn't preclude from having an opinion on an alternative strategy?

But you have none, so we will leave it there I suppose.

Boggles

rusty cole wrote: »

look there has been a 5 : 1 ratio of the usual suspects compared to an contra view ok, telling me I'm over thinking it or patting me on the back wont have me tacitly agree with you.

How can there be a debate when there's obvious media bias insofar as the HSE and RTE are concerned. It's not just the people here either, generally people are pi$$ed off and unfortunately you have to hear about it on evoke.ie over the national broadcaster and they're the very ones guilty of mixing it up.

This to me is again, like mass sleep deprivation. People are Desperate for a way out and so they are vulnerable at the same time. desperate people will agree to anything for a glimpse of what could be, even the old NORMAL...they'll roll up their sleeve and say yes to any new vaccine you give them. As per the swabs, will Claire and Ryan get the vaccine live on TV? their immunity from it has a six month shelf life after all, so they're as willing a as us it seems!
https://www.msn.com/en-ie/entertainment/tv/rt%c3%a9-accused-of-relentless-negativity-as-claire-byrne-live-leaves-viewers-deflated/ar-BB1bwEvF

I have read that twice, sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about.

MSM, Anti-Vax, etc?

end of the road

thebaz wrote: »

This video from the BBC in Burnley on the effect of Covid / lockdown strategy is why I believe we should continue questioning the lockdown strategy not because we don't care about life, but because we do care about life :-
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-55133081

most of those issues are caused by pre-existing issues.
without restrictions and covid running rampent they would be in an even more dire situation.

thebaz wrote: »

I said its scenes like in video why we should question the lockdown srtrategy - in fact its the humane thing to do rather than blindly following the NPHET hard lockdown strategy, without exploring other living with the virus options.

it's not the nphet lock down strategy, it's just lock down which plenty of countries have been operating.
we have looked at other living with covid strategies, they all end in failure, whereas restrictions and lock down are successful and deliver what we need to deliver.

thebaz wrote: »

maybe asking public to behave in a mature manner - social distance, no crowded indoor bars and public transport , wear masks indoors - rather than dictating for 8 week how we live, and telling us every day how bad we are doing and how at risk we are , instilling over- anxiety and fear in to the majority - if the hospitals are becoming over-crowded warn us, but do we need to hear the daily cases every single day ?

so basically what we are already doing?
there is no instilling of anxiety or fear in the majority, the majority of us are doing perfectly fine while being aware that the virus exists and we need to work within it, which means as much as we don't like them, the need for restrictions.
if you don't want to hear the daily cases then don't listen to them, it's that simple.

BeefeaterHat

Boggles wrote: »

So you are saying you are woefully under qualified to comment?

In fairness that shouldn't preclude from having an opinion on an alternative strategy?

But you have none, so we will leave it there I suppose.

Bit of a condescending, **** eating response but par for the course with you. I never claimed to have an alternative strategy. This is an online forum I only post here occasionally its not the house of commons.

My point is the great debate you've imagined going on over restrictions is just in your head. The very fact lockdown number 3 is all but guaranteed after the Christmas points to that. But I'm not qualified enough to speak about it on a public forum. God help us.

Boggles

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

But I'm not qualified enough to speak about it on a public forum. God help us.

I never suggested that.

Boggles wrote: »

In fairness that shouldn't preclude from having an opinion on an alternative strategy?

Like I said we will leave it there.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

I have read that twice, sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about.

MSM, Anti-Vax, etc?

Anti Vax...that's supposed to be a ruse to illicit a stupid tin foil hat fueled response from me?

You have no idea, then you have no idea, just swipe over the post.
on we go.

Boggles

rusty cole wrote: »

Anti Vax...that's supposed to be a ruse to illicit a stupid tin foil hat fueled response from me?

TBF, I think you covered that in the post I replied to.

rusty cole wrote: »

People are Desperate for a way out and so they are vulnerable at the same time. desperate people will agree to anything for a glimpse of what could be, even the old NORMAL...they'll roll up their sleeve and say yes to any new vaccine you give them. As per the swabs, will Claire and Ryan get the vaccine live on TV? their immunity from it has a six month shelf life after all, so they're as willing a as us it seems!

Gervais08

end of the road wrote: »

most of those issues are caused by pre-existing issues.
without restrictions and covid running rampent they would be in an even more dire situation.




it's not the nphet lock down strategy, it's just lock down which plenty of countries have been operating.
we have looked at other living with covid strategies, they all end in failure, whereas restrictions and lock down are successful and deliver what we need to deliver.



so basically what we are already doing?
there is no instilling of anxiety or fear in the majority, the majority of us are doing perfectly fine while being aware that the virus exists and we need to work within it, which means as much as we don't like them, the need for restrictions.
if you don't want to hear the daily cases then don't listen to them, it's that simple.

Biggest load of drivel I’ve read today and I flicked through the Star in the supermarket before.

BeefeaterHat

Boggles wrote: »

I never suggested that.





Like I said we will leave it there.

And like I said I have never claimed to have an alternative strategy, only that one can be formulated if the willpower was there rather than lockdown, lockdown lockdown

end of the road

treade1 wrote: »

Did you hear what Martin Feeley said to George Hook on Covid Recovery Ireland? Basically if vaccines are 75% effective and 75% of people take them the chances of someone dying are reduced by 50%. So it will reduce the IFR by 50%. It will be interesting to see what happens. It is hard to see the vaccine satisfying the lockdowners. Either the money runs out for PUP and the government end restrictions out of economic necessity or else a protest movement akin to Right to Water develops forcing the government to change direction. Unfortunately there is no sign of a credible protest movement developing that ordinary working people can get behind without been labelled a far right lunatic tinfoil hat wearing anti-vaxer!

the money running out (which won't happen) wouldn't change the direction as the fact remains that without controling the spread of the virus ireland ends up a basket case with an actual crashed economy and health service and all else in the end.
a protest movement will quite rightly be ignored because no matter what, it will be saw for what it actually is, which is as you described above.

Deleted User wrote: »

That’s fair enough. But I questioned before why we didn’t try to increase ICU capacity and I was told that it’s not just about beds. Doctors and nurses are needed to man those beds.

Again that is also fair enough. But hospitals are quieter than ever and we have those videos mentioned.

It begs the question, did we ever really seriously bother to try increase ICU? I would say no. It was easier just to lockdown, put thousands out of work, borrow big, pray for a vaccine and deal with consequences later.

it was covid that put people out of work as it was always going to do eventually. many of them will only be out on a temporary basis.
we aren't borrowing big in reality, most countries are borrowing anyway at the moment to make up the short fall but servicing those borrowings will be managable.
increasing ICU capacity isn't simply about beds, it's about the staff as well, and it's not possible to simply transfer staff from other wards, in fact i believe ICU staff may have to have slightly different qualifications to work in that specific line of work.
hospitals being quite don't negate against the realities, without the vital public health measures in place they wouldn't be quite but would be overloaded which potentially puts the issue on to us all indirectly.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

TBF, I think you covered that in the post I replied to.

so that's tin foil hat stuff by my design is it now?

ok, we'll just agree I disagree , it's a pleasure to read your posts so.

Boggles

rusty cole wrote: »

so that's tin foil hat stuff by my design is it now?

Unless someone else typed your post?

rusty cole wrote: »

ok, we'll just agree I disagree , it's a pleasure to read your posts so.

Fair enough, Thank you.

Irish Aris

I think people need to be aware that we aren't the only country where doctors of any specialty is on media and throw their 2 cents of misery.

I follow the situation in my home country (Greece) and I would say it is even worse than here. Multiple TV channels that very conveniently have their main news programs (the equivalent of the 6:01) in different times, therefore the same people can be paraded around and say how concerned they are and how the situation is critical and we need to keep the lockdown longer. And the equivalent of NPHET influences heavily (if not dictates) what the government will do.
Is it ideal? No. I think some more balanced reporting would help.
Can I understand that point of view? Yes, because the numbers in Greece are pretty bad at the moment, so it doesn't hurt that people are reminded that we aren't completely out of the woods yet.
My theory is that this being an unprecedented circumstance, the health authorities of most countries just make it up as they go, which I guess to an extend is understandable.

FintanMcluskey

Irish Aris wrote: »

I think people need to be aware that we aren't the only country where doctors of any specialty is on media and throw their 2 cents of misery.

I follow the situation in my home country (Greece) and I would say it is even worse than here. Multiple TV channels that very conveniently have their main news programs (the equivalent of the 6:01) in different times, therefore the same people can be paraded around and say how concerned they are and how the situation is critical and we need to keep the lockdown longer. And the equivalent of NPHET influences heavily (if not dictates) what the government will do.
Is it ideal? No. I think some more balanced reporting would help.
Can I understand that point of view? Yes, because the numbers in Greece are pretty bad at the moment, so it doesn't hurt that people are reminded that we aren't completely out of the woods yet.
My theory is that this being an unprecedented circumstance, the health authorities of most countries just make it up as they go, which I guess to an extend is understandable.

Has it been bombardment via media relentlessly for 7 months without respite, even during Summer?

NPHET allowed Irish citizens to get a haircut 2 months after Greece allowed its citizens similar reprieve

Boggles

Greece have extended their restrictions and have a curfew.

ICU beds at capacity in some regions.

Schools and all non essential business closed.

Averaging 100 deaths a day.

I think all Irish people would gladly forgo a couple of months of hair dressers not to be in that situation.

FintanMcluskey

Boggles wrote: »

Greece have extended their restrictions and have a curfew.

ICU beds at capacity in some regions.

Schools and all non essential business closed.

Averaging 100 deaths a day.

I think all Irish people would gladly forgo a couple of months of hair dressers not to be in that situation.

Can’t get haircuts for almost 2 months in Ireland


Europe’s strictest nation has been under the restricted measures the longest

What a bizarre year it’s been, that people are welcoming living in a police state.

Our democracy is forever damaged unfortunately