England v Ireland Autumn Nations Cup | 21.11.20 KO 15:00 | RTE 1 Read Post #5

JohnniDrama

I think the IRFU are getting found out. They have been far too cosy. For too long now.
We have an atrocious World Cup record and the last one was brushed under the carpet far too much. It was a spectacular failing.

The provincial model in Ireland is completely wrong, if the national team is the ultimate priority. It’s fine for the odd European Cup win but come the national team and world cups, it is not working. The dreadful pro14 doesn’t help either.

Our front line players are not prepared as a result. They are undercooked. In all the provinces.

We have always had some players who have been or are mostly subs at say Leinster starting for our country. It’s madness. Complete madness.

What is the real IRFU strategy for team Ireland?
Is David Nucifora adding any real value?
Are our provincial academies fit for purpose?
Why no draft?
Why are young players not developing through faster? (A lot of English and French players are younger than ours and established internationals).
Why are both Ulster and Connacht not far better utilised for national level players? (Leinster having 8-9 international back rows is the best example. Madness).
Why are Munster and Leinster protected so much?
Is the coaching pathway fit for purpose? Why so many foreign coaches? Are the national coaches fit for purpose?
What is the game plan? What is the identity when we think of team Ireland?
Are we producing the right type of athlete for where the game has gone and is going?
Why are we so slow to identify and naturally replace ageing players?

Coaches and pundits love to talk about the World Cup cycle but right now, one year on from a shameful **** show, we actually look in worse shape.

Is there any real accountability? Any real ownership?

We will never compete for a World Cup in such a comfort zone.

TRANQUILLO

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

Absolutely smashed up. Delighted.You love to see it. Ireland are dreadful.

Bizarre. 99% sure you're Irish from reading your posts over the past few months.

kingofthekong

Yep Byrne really struggled, Burns gets ahead of him now until Sextons back, Burn’s cameo was great. Think Ross’s real fight now is to hold his jersey and stop his brother overtaking him

molloyjh

Good to see the hyperbole is out in full force anyway. The more things change....

Castlekeeper

KaneToad wrote: »

I think they may have run different lines. PO'M being more direct.

I would have thought it was Lowe's place all day to be covering a break from the opposite wing, but he hardly moved, not to mind bring there as support if Ireland had managed to arrest the situation. Maybe a wingers role in the back 3 has changed since my day.

Hands Like Flippers

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

There has to be a point where the players need tobe questioned, you dont see anyone else get bullied this badly as we do against England.

We play to their strengths by just running into them at 20 and 30.

patob

almostover wrote: »

One thing that has infuriated me about Irish rugby over the last 2 years is us giving up very kickable penalties to get ourselves into the game. Those decisions are normally followed up by either a cheap turnover, a lineout malfunction or 20 phases of one out runners to win another penalty. Today's game hinged on that. Granted England scored a good first try. We then win a 70% kickable penalty, on Ross Byrnes good side about 35-40m out from goal. Anyone with aspirations of being an international fly half would fancy a shot at it. No, instead we kick to the corner, overthrow the lineout and end up 12-0 down. Why we didnt just have a shot at goal is beyond me. Worst case is we miss and we have 14 players facing the return from England. Sexton is often guilty of this too. You have to get on the scoreboard as soon as you have the chance at this level of rugby

Completely agree. We passed up quite a number of kickable penalties and went for the lineout knowing that the lineout was not functioning. Even the scrum option would have been preferable. Ryan has to be culpable for these decisions.

eclipsechaser

JohnniDrama wrote: »

I think the IRFU are getting found out. They have been far too cosy. For too long now.
We have an atrocious World Cup record and the last one was brushed under the carpet far too much. It was a spectacular failing.

The provincial model in Ireland is completely wrong, if the national team is the ultimate priority. It’s fine for the odd European Cup win but come the national team and world cups, it is not working. The dreadful pro14 doesn’t help either.

Our front line players are not prepared as a result. They are undercooked. In all the provinces.

We have always had some players who have been or are mostly subs at say Leinster starting for our country. It’s madness. Complete madness.

What is the real IRFU strategy for team Ireland?
Is David Nucifora adding any real value?
Are our provincial academies fit for purpose?
Why no draft?
Why are young players not developing through faster? (A lot of English and French players are younger than ours and established internationals).
Why are both Ulster and Connacht not far better utilised for national level players? (Leinster having 8-9 international back rows is the best example. Madness).
Why are Munster and Leinster protected so much?
Is the coaching pathway fit for purpose? Why so many foreign coaches? Are the national coaches fit for purpose?
What is the game plan? What is the identity when we think of team Ireland?
Are we producing the right type of athlete for where the game has gone and is going?
Why are we so slow to identify and naturally replace ageing players?

Coaches and pundits love to talk about the World Cup cycle but right now, one year on from a shameful **** show, we actually look in worse shape.

Is there any real accountability? Any real ownership?

We will never compete for a World Cup in such a comfort zone.

We're a small population where rugby is the 4th sport. Still, we've managed multiple club European championships, multiple 6 Nations titles, grandslams, a summer tour and wins over NZ.

I'd say it's been a remarkably successful time in the IRFU's history. Sure the WC results haven't been great and we don't look as good right now but really we've been spoilt compared to how Ireland traditionally fared.

leakyboots

aloooof wrote: »

I think you’re massively over-simplifying things, tbh. You mention France; didn’t Ryan call it to 2 in the France game, we got driven straight into touch and he got criticised for that, also? I don’t think it’s as straightforward as you’re making out.

Duncan Casey, who'd know a thing or two about these things, was on Twitter criticising the calls. Young player, messes up early throw, keep it simple at 2 for next couple of throws to secure ball and build confidence to go further along the line as match proceeds. I thought Ryan was poor today, his form has dipped a bit recently for me.

Important to note DC wasn't advocating for Kelleher's career to be finished, like some on here. I think he does need to go away and sort his darts though for a bit, I'm sure he'll bounce back if he works on it, he's young enough.

I'm not so sure on Ross Byrne. Fly half is a big worry at the moment

swiwi_

3 big problems for Ireland in that game as I saw it

1) Backrow - CJ Stander was anonymous. Which is a worry, given he's probably more of a 6 than an 8. Doris worked hard and was decent overall, POM was OK, but CJ just didn't feature.

2) Flyhalf - Byrne plays deep and offers no individual threat. Don't think he should wear green again. Just not cut out for international rugby.

3) Midfield. Aki and Farrell play the same way. Easily fixed once Ringrose is back.

Thought Earls did well with the little ball that went his way.

Burkie1203

swiwi_ wrote: »

3 big problems for Ireland in that game as I saw it

1) Backrow - CJ Stander was anonymous. Which is a worry, given he's probably more of a 6 than an 8. Doris worked hard and was decent overall, POM was OK, but CJ just didn't feature.

2) Flyhalf - Byrne plays deep and offers no individual threat. Don't think he should wear green again. Just not cut out for international rugby.

3) Midfield. Aki and Farrell play the same way. Easily fixed once Ringrose is back.

Thought Earls did well with the little ball that went his way.

1. Think that's pretty much on the money. Seen some Twitter accounts label POM as being "fantastic" and I've really struggled to see how they reached that conclusion. He carried a few times but wasn't exactly making metres, he won a maul turnover but also gave away a maul penalty. It's not exactly setting the bar high. I thought Doris had a really strong 2nd half after a quiet opening 40.

There is a bit of a trend with Stander of teams marking him out of games. NZ did it in Japan and England have done it a few times now. But he hasn't been helped by receiving so much slow static ball, although that wasn't as big an issue yesterday


2. I expected Byrne to kick a lot yesterday to turn England. Billy Burns needs a few starts now and maybe even bring Carty into the camp for the next 2 weeks. I think Ben Healy should be part of the wider group for the 6n like the 4 guys named in January this year.


3. I still believe Henshaw and Ringrose, when on form is our best centre partnership.



Our back 3 options are actually decent enough.

Stockdale
Keenan
Conway
Earls
Lowe
Larmour

There is a few others like Balacoune, Lowry, Daly, Addison, Gallagher at the provinces although a few have injury concerns, it's not exactly a bad list of options all told.

I didn't actually see the game, and probably won't rewatch now but really surprised reading these comments on Stander. Even in games where he isn't hugely effective you can normally count on 10-15 carries and 10-15 tackles from him, but saw stats on Twitter earlier suggesting he wasn't even very busy. Wonder if the coaches were trying to use him in a different way or something, but then you'd wonder why they'd do that.

Burkie1203

Kingston Wailing Numskull wrote: »

I didn't actually see the game, and probably won't rewatch now but really surprised reading these comments on Stander. Even in games where he isn't hugely effective you can normally count on 10-15 carries and 10-15 tackles from him, but saw stats on Twitter earlier suggesting he wasn't even very busy. Wonder if the coaches were trying to use him in a different way or something, but then you'd wonder why they'd do that.

We had possession something like 2:1 ratio but he hardly carried at all. I can recall 1 pick and go is all. We only made 60 odd tackles, England made something like 240

lawrencesummers

JohnniDrama wrote: »

I think the IRFU are getting found out. They have been far too cosy. For too long now.
We have an atrocious World Cup record and the last one was brushed under the carpet far too much. It was a spectacular failing.

The provincial model in Ireland is completely wrong, if the national team is the ultimate priority. It’s fine for the odd European Cup win but come the national team and world cups, it is not working. The dreadful pro14 doesn’t help either.

Our front line players are not prepared as a result. They are undercooked. In all the provinces.

We have always had some players who have been or are mostly subs at say Leinster starting for our country. It’s madness. Complete madness.

What is the real IRFU strategy for team Ireland?
Is David Nucifora adding any real value?
Are our provincial academies fit for purpose?
Why no draft?
Why are young players not developing through faster? (A lot of English and French players are younger than ours and established internationals).
Why are both Ulster and Connacht not far better utilised for national level players? (Leinster having 8-9 international back rows is the best example. Madness).
Why are Munster and Leinster protected so much?
Is the coaching pathway fit for purpose? Why so many foreign coaches? Are the national coaches fit for purpose?
What is the game plan? What is the identity when we think of team Ireland?
Are we producing the right type of athlete for where the game has gone and is going?
Why are we so slow to identify and naturally replace ageing players?

Coaches and pundits love to talk about the World Cup cycle but right now, one year on from a shameful **** show, we actually look in worse shape.

Is there any real accountability? Any real ownership?

We will never compete for a World Cup in such a comfort zone.

Why don’t you sit down for a minute and compare the IRFU with its soccer equivalent.
As the only two sports of the 4 most popular that are professional and international I would say that the IRFU has done remarkably well developing Rugby in this country in comparison to the shambles that soccer is.

Rugby has professional home based players, academies, development coaches, competent administration, underage structures and we compete on a Global stage. We have reached the number one ranking globally.

Rugby doesn’t have the appeal or resources that Soccer has yet the Irish Soccer team is populated by mostly English born players, who have been coached and developed in the UK because the domestic game in Ireland hasnt got a standard high enough to produce internationals, Irish soccer clubs are constantly in financial trouble and the off field administration says it all really.

Sure it’s not perfect but to criticise the IRFU here is just daft, have some perspective about things.

We lost to a better team, and a team that almost won the World Cup last year.

molloyjh

Burkie1203 wrote: »

We had possession something like 2:1 ratio but he hardly carried at all. I can recall 1 pick and go is all. We only made 60 odd tackles, England made something like 240

Stats have Stander down for 5 carries, 2 passes & 3m made. No defender's beaten and no line breaks obviously. It looks like we didn't use him much at all. Not sure of that was because he wasn't putting himself about or because his primary role was hitting rucks or what. Would need to watch it back and not sure I have the time or inclination to do so!

I see sheep

There's a image going around of a few England players taking a knee during the English anthem, showing Irish players not doing it,
Sorry I missed the start of the game, was there the chance for the Irish players to do it or they decided not to? Thanks

ionadnapokot

“A few good men” would be a fitting title alright for that performance

Col. Nathan R. Jessep is Andy Farrell
He fundamentally believes in what he’s doing. However, his convictions are completely misguided.

sydthebeat

I see sheep wrote: »

There's a image going around of a few England players taking a knee during the English anthem, showing Irish players not doing it,
Sorry I missed the start of the game, was there the chance for the Irish players to do it or they decided not to? Thanks

Why would Irish players take a knee during the English anthem?
That could be viewed by some as disrespectful

Munsterman12

I see sheep wrote: »

There's a image going around of a few England players taking a knee during the English anthem, showing Irish players not doing it,
Sorry I missed the start of the game, was there the chance for the Irish players to do it or they decided not to? Thanks

Bandwagon jumpers. A bunch of posh white men taking the knee because of George floyd. Give me a break

Kraftwerk

The reaction to the loss in the wider social media baffles me. That was a seasoned first string England team in Twickenham. While Ireland have a new head coach, new players/missing key starters, new captain, new style of play (or in the process of changing anyway). And Ireland still didn't get blown away despite not even having a lineout.

Its also a made up competition to fill the gap of the autumn Internationals. It's a development opportunity. And tbh it was a fantastic experience for everyone involved. If you criticise Bryne for not developing due to having an armchair ride at leinster then you have to allow for the fact that himself and everyone else got a hell of a lot of experience from that game. England put on a defensive masterclass with sharp counter attacking. You don't come up against that often or get the chance to use it as a development game.

clsmooth

molloyjh wrote: »

Stats have Stander down for 5 carries, 2 passes & 3m made. No defender's beaten and no line breaks obviously. It looks like we didn't use him much at all. Not sure of that was because he wasn't putting himself about or because his primary role was hitting rucks or what. Would need to watch it back and not sure I have the time or inclination to do so!

Stats don’t ever seem impressive for Irish 6s. POM’s key stats over the last few years have been low when he’s lined out with 6. Doris was similar in France when he started at 6. Stander yesterday. Coincidence?

Munsterman12

Munsterman12 wrote: »

Bandwagon jumpers. A bunch of posh white men taking the knee because of George floyd. Give me a break

Big push in rugby again racism at the moment. I've no issue with people showing solidarity.

I often find it's the folks on social media upset by such gestures that I'd have more disagreement with.

I also have no issue with people not getting involved.

First Up

Burkie1203 wrote:

We had possession something like 2:1 ratio but he hardly carried at all. I can recall 1 pick and go is all. We only made 60 odd tackles, England made something like 240

The Irish forwards must be delighted to see how their hard won ball was continually wasted.

Was Byrne following Farrell's instructions to stand so deep? He gets the Leinster backs moving but yesterday he just presented hospital passes from a standing start. So much possession with nothing to show for it.

Kraftwerk

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Big push in rugby again racism at the moment. I've no issue with people showing solidarity.

I often find it's the folks on social media upset by such gestures that I'd have more disagreement with.

If there's a push against racism it should be clear and consistent. Not inconsistent random acts based on Americann issues.

A few of the English players didn't take a knee. What's the message there? Most of them are against racism but not all?

It's a social trend that doesn't actually mean anything.

sydthebeat

It's personal.

Let's leave it at that

Kraftwerk

Kraftwerk wrote: »

If there's a push against racism it should be clear and consistent. Not inconsistent random acts based on Americann issues.

A few of the English players didn't take a knee. What's the message there? Most of them are against racism but not all?

It's a social trend that doesn't actually mean anything.

Owen Farrell links his fingers after a kick in relation to a young person he knows with a serious illness. None of the rest of the England tens or try scorers do.

Yet that inconsistency doesn't get raised.

And the push against racism has been acknowledged before every international for the last year.

I'm not bothered having this conversation in this thread to be honest. I just find the outrage it causes very telling in certain instances.

UAEguy2020

I see sheep wrote: »

There's a image going around of a few England players taking a knee during the English anthem, showing Irish players not doing it,
Sorry I missed the start of the game, was there the chance for the Irish players to do it or they decided not to? Thanks

Absolutely delighted they didn’t take a knee.

Solutionking

JohnniDrama wrote: »

I think the IRFU are getting found out. They have been far too cosy. For too long now.
We have an atrocious World Cup record and the last one was brushed under the carpet far too much. It was a spectacular failing.

The provincial model in Ireland is completely wrong, if the national team is the ultimate priority. It’s fine for the odd European Cup win but come the national team and world cups, it is not working. The dreadful pro14 doesn’t help either.

Our front line players are not prepared as a result. They are undercooked. In all the provinces.

We have always had some players who have been or are mostly subs at say Leinster starting for our country. It’s madness. Complete madness.

What is the real IRFU strategy for team Ireland?
Is David Nucifora adding any real value?
Are our provincial academies fit for purpose?
Why no draft?
Why are young players not developing through faster? (A lot of English and French players are younger than ours and established internationals).
Why are both Ulster and Connacht not far better utilised for national level players? (Leinster having 8-9 international back rows is the best example. Madness).
Why are Munster and Leinster protected so much?
Is the coaching pathway fit for purpose? Why so many foreign coaches? Are the national coaches fit for purpose?
What is the game plan? What is the identity when we think of team Ireland?
Are we producing the right type of athlete for where the game has gone and is going?
Why are we so slow to identify and naturally replace ageing players?

Coaches and pundits love to talk about the World Cup cycle but right now, one year on from a shameful **** show, we actually look in worse shape.

Is there any real accountability? Any real ownership?

We will never compete for a World Cup in such a comfort zone.

I do love to see the crazy over reaction after every loss.



You do realize that England and France keep changing the Henieken Cup format because they struggle to compete with the Irish provinces. Yet you are asking to throw it out.

We are a small island and rugby would struggle to be our 3rd sport yet people expect us to be the number 1 in the World
In comparison England have 14 top teams all with academies. They are the richest union and the national team has a superstar team of coachs picked from all around the World. SA destory them in the scrum, well then hire the SA scrum coach.
Unless we change every pitch in Ireland and every secondary school to rugby we will never be at that level.

Also the team is in a massive transition, Sexton, Kearney, SOB and Murray having to be replaced. New coaching team which still have question marks.

Plus this is a makey up competition with no real prize, no WC seeding. The whole point of it is to bring in new players, something which everyone complains we are not good at doing, they try to bring in new players, lose a nothing game and you have people posting the above. Bit of cop on needed to be honest. If we start the same old team filled with players from the WC I can imagine the reaction. With soem people you can never win
The big mistake yesterday was not starting Burns which could have been down to head injury assessment which I understand, but he should have been brought on earlier. Also I would have whipped off Lowe, moved Keenan to wing and put Stockdale into 15 earlier. But I know that could hit Lowe confidence and he is a confidence player. We know what Earls can do, we know we couldn't win so why not move Keenan onto Earls wing and put Stockdale into 15. Try it out

Kraftwerk

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Owen Farrell links his fingers after a kick in relation to a young person he knows with a serious illness. None of the rest of the England tens or try scorers do.

Yet that inconsistency doesn't get raised.

And the push against racism has been acknowledged before every international for the last year.

I'm not bothered having this conversation in this thread to be honest. I just find the outrage it causes very telling in certain instances.

Owen Farrell linking his fingers is his own personal thing. Taking a knee is something the RFU brought into it and said it represents a stand against racism but players aren't obliged to do it. With everyone having different views on what it represents. Racism, black lives matters, protests etc.

I don't see any outrage it's just been described as bandwagon jumping which is exactly what it is. If a stand against racism needs to be made then it should be clear and something everyone against racism can get behind. Not some convoluted imported American trend that not everyone supports.

But probably not a conversation for here regardless.

clsmooth

You’d almost forget we were playing England, the beaten World Cup finalists are arguably the best team in the World Cup last year, away in Twickenham. They did a similar job on NZ last year who most would agree would be 90% likely to beat us. Too much emotion on here. Plenty to be happy about yesterday

First Up

Solutionking wrote:

Also I would have whipped off Lowe, moved Keenan to wing and put Stockdale into 15 earlier. But I know that could hit Lowe confidence and he is a confidence player. We know what Earls can do, we know we couldn't win so why not move Keenan onto Earls wing and put Stockdale into 15. Try it out

You think Lowe is that fragile? I don't. He was beaten in the air for the the first try but he had no chance to show anything in attack behind a static back line. He is brilliant in broken play but we didn't create any yesterday.

molloyjh

clsmooth wrote: »

Stats don’t ever seem impressive for Irish 6s. POM’s key stats over the last few years have been low when he’s lined out with 6. Doris was similar in France when he started at 6. Stander yesterday. Coincidence?

Probably not. People often say that the number doesn't matter in the back row, but it most likely matters a lot. Hence the comment about him resourcing the rucks. We'd need to review the game itself with the stats in mind to understand the context. It does seem strange that we didn't use Stander as a carrier given his abilities there combined with our relative lack of options in that regard.

guapos

First Up wrote: »

You think Lowe is that fragile? I don't. He was beaten in the air for the the first try but he had no chance to show anything in attack behind a static back line. He is brilliant in broken play but we didn't create any yesterday.

Think it was keenan who was beaten in the air. In hindsight he should have stepped back and waited for him to land

theVersatile

First Up wrote: »

You think Lowe is that fragile? I don't. He was beaten in the air for the the first try but he had no chance to show anything in attack behind a static back line. He is brilliant in broken play but we didn't create any yesterday.

Keenan was beaten in the air for the first try

Happy4all

guapos wrote: »

Think it was keenan who was beaten in the air. In hindsight he should have stepped back and waited for him to land

Yes , I thought he should have been a bit more astute in reading the situation. That said, everyone makes mistakes and I thought he recovered to have a decent game

declanflynn

guapos wrote: »

Think it was keenan who was beaten in the air. In hindsight he should have stepped back and waited for him to land

agree,
If Ireland had gained parity in the line out and make a few less mistakes we could have won that game, England dont go out to win, they go out and force the other team to lose, Ireland fell into a trap that they could have avoided, England's game plan would not beat SA or NW and it won't be good enough to defeat Ireland in the 6 nations

Dog Botherer

some amount of edgelords wetting themselves over the anti racism stuff. people love telling on themselves.

molloyjh

I know some think the line out cost us, but even if all of our line outs had been perfect, where would the scores have come from? We couldn't break down their defence at all. How many times did we have possession in-play in the red zone? And how many times did we score?

Sure, the line-out was a problem, but even with that going on we still had opportunities to win that game. We still had periods of possession in the red zone that we could have scored from. But we didn't. Having more opportunities is never going to guarantee scores.

shootermacg

molloyjh wrote: »

I know some think the line out cost us, but even if all of our line outs had been perfect, where would the scores have come from? We couldn't break down their defence at all. How many times did we have possession in-play in the red zone? And how many times did we score?

Sure, the line-out was a problem, but even with that going on we still had opportunities to win that game. We still had periods of possession in the red zone that we could have scored from. But we didn't. Having more opportunities is never going to guarantee scores.

One thing I am sure of is, losing all those lineouts in their 5M / 22 didn't help matters. It's a game of pressure, the longer a team holds possession in the opposition's 22 the more the pressure on the other team ramps up and the more change there is for a mistake to happen. Gifting them the ball in their 22 is a boost for them and a kick in the stones for us.

awec

They literally scored a try directly off one of our own lineouts in their 22, so they were clearly a huge factor in the result.

UAEguy2020

The way people have reacted to the England and France defeat you would have thought those same people expected us to win the match...

awec

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

The way people have reacted to the England and France defeat you would have thought those same people expected us to win the match...

It was the manner of the defeat. But you know this already.

Like night follows day, Ireland play poorly and some are trying their best to excuse it. Yea we were never going to win today, but we played some really dumb rugby, the coaches decided on some really daft tactics and the indecisiveness in subbing off underperforming players was ridiculous. Losing would be fine if it looked like we were building toward something. But I guess I haven't drank enough kool-aid to think we're building toward anything other than another disappointing Six Nations.

shootermacg

awec wrote: »

It was the manner of the defeat. But you know this already.

Like night follows day, Ireland play poorly and some are trying their best to excuse it.

Basically SA and England have taken Joe-Ball and implemented it with bigger players.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

They literally scored a try directly off one of our own lineouts in their 22, so they were clearly a huge factor in the result.

And even if they hadn't we still would have lost. I'm not saying it wasn't an issue. I'm saying that even if it wasn't I think we still would have lost. Because a bigger issue was what we were (or weren't) doing with the ball in open play.

dor843088

Our best 10 was from England yesterday
Our best centre is from Athlone
Our best back 3 is from New Zealand
Our best back row is South African
Our best 2nd row is South African
Our best front row is from Wexford

Is it time we kicked the schools to touch ?

awec

First Up wrote: »

The Irish forwards must be delighted to see how their hard won ball was continually wasted.

Was Byrne following Farrell's instructions to stand so deep? He gets the Leinster backs moving but yesterday he just presented hospital passes from a standing start. So much possession with nothing to show for it.

Byrne standing deep, with Aki and Farrell outside him receiving the ball standing still, neither an elusive runner, neither one going to unlock any defence with their passing ability.

Passing deep with two bosh merchants in the centre, I genuinely hope that this was not the tactics dictated by the coaches.

molloyjh

dor843088 wrote: »

Our best 10 was from England yesterday
Our best centre is from Athlone
Our best back 3 is from New Zealand
Our best back row is South African
Our best 2nd row is South African
Our best front row is from Wexford

Is it time we kicked the schools to touch ?

Really poor effort. Really poor. So poor I felt compelled to comment on just how poor it was.

sydthebeat

dor843088 wrote: »

Our best 10 was from England yesterday
Our best centre is from Athlone
Our best back 3 is from New Zealand
Our best back row is South African
Our best 2nd row is South African
Our best front row is from Wexford

Is it time we kicked the schools to touch ?

Oooohhhhh


Edgy


LOL

JohnniDrama

Kingston Wailing Numskull wrote: »

I didn't actually see the game, and probably won't rewatch now but really surprised reading these comments on Stander. Even in games where he isn't hugely effective you can normally count on 10-15 carries and 10-15 tackles from him, but saw stats on Twitter earlier suggesting he wasn't even very busy. Wonder if the coaches were trying to use him in a different way or something, but then you'd wonder why they'd do that.

Go back and watch the first 8 minutes of the second half. I specifically watched for Stander because I thought he was very quiet in that first half.

In those 8 minutes....

Zero carry
Zero tackles
Zero rucks
Zero set piece

He contributed nothing at all in those 8 minutes and I mean not a single intervention. I couldn’t believe it.

He made 3 metres overall according to the stats.

Now he was not alone but he is meant to be one of our primary forwards. So if they were using him say to stand on a touch line or something, the plan failed.

schmoo2k

I see sheep wrote: »

There's a image going around of a few England players taking a knee during the English anthem, showing Irish players not doing it,
Sorry I missed the start of the game, was there the chance for the Irish players to do it or they decided not to? Thanks

I suspect it wasn't for Bloody Sunday?