Housing Department: New plan to end direct provision is unworkable

smurgen

Eric Cartman wrote: »

To support the middle classes , support businesses and reduce taxation and welfare.

Remember increasing the higher tax threshold to 50k
‘Welfare cheats cheat us all’ clampdown
Flirtations with the flat tax
Leo condemning life time dole recipients.
Scrap the USC

What did we get : dole christmas bonus, more dole, more migrants, more tax , free for all abortion and same sex marraige.

FG are a twitter Clap centre left social policy party, not a right wing bone left in their leadership

Funny enough I agree with you but all of that doesn't mean they're leftist. You can't just label things you don't like as leftist. Light touch regulation and low CT are right leaning. Corporate protection is high on the agenda in Ireland. The insurance and banking companies get away with murder here and this is facilitated by FG.

Eric Cartman

smurgen wrote: »

Funny enough I agree with you but all of that doesn't mean they're leftist. You can't just label things you don't like as leftist. Light touch regulation and low CT are right leaning. Corporate protection is high on the agenda in Ireland. The insurance and banking companies get away with murder here and this is facilitated by FG.

Those are policies left as a hangover from FF’s haughy and bertie. Just because FG didnt change them doesnt make them an indicator of FG’s right wing credentials. FF set this country up as a low corp tax country and encouraged FDI , were now stuck dependent on it. Theres no reasonable party in the land that could upset that apple cart without lunging us into poverty. charlies FF was centre right , but the foundations they lay down mean nobody is likely to change any of those rules, since bertie left in 07 the 2 big dogs of irish politics have been swinging just left of centre in every facet

goose2005

TomTomTim wrote: »

There's no right wing parties in Ireland. There's left and there's further left.

Most parties are right-wing economically but 'liberal' on social issues

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Those are policies left as a hangover from FF’s haughy and bertie. Just because FG didnt change them doesnt make them an indicator of FG’s right wing credentials. FF set this country up as a low corp tax country and encouraged FDI , were now stuck dependent on it. Theres no reasonable party in the land that could upset that apple cart without lunging us into poverty. charlies FF was centre right , but the foundations they lay down mean nobody is likely to change any of those rules, since bertie left in 07 the 2 big dogs of irish politics have been swinging just left of centre in every facet

Did FFG not vote down a living wage bill,which eamonn ryan had to be famously woken up to do



Its a v.skewed perspective to list them.as centre left imo.....ireland as a country deosnt require union recognition....how is this position left leaning

Social welfare was only ever introduced 1st day to stave off communism popularity among poor in germany?

goose2005

smellyoldboot wrote: »

There's a much quicker way to end Direct Provision and it could be implemented tomorrow if we had the balls: Any waster that shows up without their documents in order or where Ireland could not possibly be the first safe country they landed in, straight out the fcukin door with them. No room for free-loaders, lifetime dolers , criminals and rapists here.

surely it would be possible to preserve anyone's documents digitally or something when they get on the plane? Then it wouldn't be possible to destroy them and turn up without them

ExMachina1000

Fg are not a right wing party. And even if they were people say right wing like it's a bad thing. It isnt

Eric Cartman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did FFG not vote down a living wage bill,which eamonn ryan had to be famously woken up to do



Its a v.skewed perspective to list them.as centre left imo.....ireland as a country deosnt require union recognition....how is this position left leaning

Social welfare was only ever introduced 1st day to stave off communism popularity among poor in germany?

That bill was unconstitutionally written by The left specifically to get Headlines ‘they voted down a living wage’ , SF and PbP are famous for tabling unconstitutional bills with fuzzy titles for reactionary headlines

ExMachina1000

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Fg are not a right wing party. And even if they were people say right wing like it's a bad thing. It isnt

There is a reasonably strong right element within (not that anything wrong with that imo)....

didnt varadkar famously once want to pay forgieners on dole to go home??

suicide_circus

smurgen wrote: »

Not in my eyes. Voting down the child poverty bill for example was not a center left move.

I'll goes as far as centrist but while there are ample examples of "left wing" policies, the examples of "right wing" policies are thin on the ground. Everything which is not pure as the driven snow left wing is not automatically right wing and vice versa

Eric Cartman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is a reasonably strong right element within (not that anything wrong with that imo)....

didnt varadkar famously once want to pay forgieners on dole to go home??

I wish he would , that would have solved our problems

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

That bill was unconstitutionally written by The left specifically to get Headlines ‘they voted down a living wage’ , SF and PbP are famous for tabling unconstitutional bills with fuzzy titles for reactionary headlines

Meh...looks to me,they voted it down and havnt enacted a bill within the constitution to replace it,how is this left leaning position?

Eric Cartman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Meh...looks to me,they voted it down and havnt enacted a bill within the constitution to replace it,how is this left leaning position?

You cant decide a parties political leaning based on bills they dont table...

ExMachina1000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is a reasonably strong right element within (not that anything wrong with that imo)....

didnt varadkar famously once want to pay forgieners on dole to go home??

Would save money long run and also free up housing for economic contributors. Great idea.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

You cant decide a parties political leaning based on bills they dont table...

Why not?

Seems they voted down x,for being unconstitional and didnt enact a version of x,that would be constitional......seems to me,in no position would they have ever supported x?

TomTomTim

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is a reasonably strong right element within (not that anything wrong with that imo)....

didnt varadkar famously once want to pay forgieners on dole to go home??

Actions matter more than words. His actions always go the other way.

suicide_circus

I dont pay a Sunday Business Post subscription which means i can't access the article which is an intolerable affront to my dignity and my human rights, can anyone give any more detail from the article?

The Day report was a pie in the sky wish list of crazy things without any practical concerns taken into account. Day was at some UCD event during the week and she doesn't think that there will be any increased draw if her recommendations were followed which just shows that she is living in a dream world. I looked through the report and there are no discussions about ways to speed up the process just that it should be sped up. Its a really poor excuse for a report but I'm sure she'll enjoy the bualadh bos from the NGO's and feeling morally superior

Everyone talks about the time people spend in DP, so surely there is an apetite for change on that, it seems eminently more sensible than giving own door accommodation or right to work asap without actually verifying claims first. If we need a constitutional ammendment to speed it up so be it, put it to the people if we want this system reformed. The last government seemed to start a system of asylum decisions by petitions rather than them being judged on merit, the ability of any minister to influence an asylum decision where it has already been decided by the IPAT should be taken away.

I would love to see some sort of study into Ireland implementing a system similar to the Dutch for asylum processing

http://www.asylumineurope.org/reports/country/netherlands/asylum-procedure/general/short-overview-asylum-procedure

Procedural tracks: Since March 2016, the IND applies a “Five Tracks” policy,[1] whereby asylum seekers are channelled to a specific procedure track (spoor) depending on the circumstances of their case. These tracks are only applicable when the asylum application has been lodged on the territory, so not at the border.



Track 1 The IND is of the opinion that the Dublin Regulation is applicable on the asylum application. The application is assessed in a Dublin Procedure. The asylum seeker is not entitled to a rest and preparation period nor a medical examination by the Forensic Medical Society Utrecht (FMMU).[2]



Track 2 Applications from asylum seekers from a Safe Country of Origin or asylum seekers who already received international protection in another Member State are assessed in this fast-track procedure. The IND finds that it is not likely that these asylum requests will be complied with. The assessment of the application takes place in 8 steps within a maximum of 8 days; in practice they are concluded in less than 8 days. The asylum seeker is not entitled to a rest and preparation period or a medical examination by FMMU.[3]



Track 3 Applications of asylum seekers which are prima facie considered likely to be granted will be assessed in this fast-track procedure. This procedure is also linked to Track 5. This procedure has not yet been applied since 2017.



Track 4 This procedure is the Regular Procedure of 8 days, with the possibility to extend this time limit by 6, 8 or 14 days.[4] In case the application cannot be thoroughly assessed within the regular procedure there is a possibility of assessing the application in the Extended Procedure, within a deadline of 6 months.



Track 5 Asylum applications that could not be assessed in Track 3, due to the fact that nationality or identity documents have not been submitted. Like Track 3, Track 5 has not been applied in 2018 and 2019.

DeadHand

Finally, some good news.

Standby for the burgeoning anti-Irish elements within the Republic to tell us that the Housing Department is (along with the rest of our nation) “racist” and “too white”.

Jinglejangle69

smurgen wrote: »

Is there any FG post you're not monitoring to police and spring to their defence?

You didn't answer my question.

So you basically just deflected as you usually do.

kildare lad

Boils my blood reading crap like this, when my parents went to England they rented a tiny bedsit . Worked two jobs to get by and save up enough money to come back to Ireland and buy a house. When me and my mates went to australia we stayed in hostels or rented a house between us, my friends and my parents didn't get any welfare and yet we could support ourselves. I've cousins in England , canada , australia and New Zealand all emigrated with fxck all during the resession and all now own their own homes in them countries. Why in gods name do NGOs and some politicians think that people coming here should be given a council house for life within 3 months of getting here . I really feel for our kids who'll be growing up and trying to get a mortgage here anything around here to buy is at least 300, 000 grand . While johnny foreigner gets a house for nothing. Maybe they'd be better off going to Africa and getting a passport , then come here and they'll get a free house of the state .

Jinglejangle69

kildare lad wrote: »

Boils my blood reading crap like this, when my parents went to England they rented a tiny bedsit . Worked two jobs to get by and save up enough money to come back to Ireland and buy a house. When me and my mates went to australia we stayed in hostels or rented a house between us, my friends and my parents didn't get any welfare and yet we could support ourselves. I've cousins in England , canada , australia and New Zealand all emigrated with fxck all during the resession and all now own their own homes in them countries. Why in gods name do NGOs and some politicians think that people coming here should be given a council house for life within 3 months of getting here . I really feel for our kids who'll be growing up and trying to get a mortgage here anything around here to buy is at least 300, 000 grand . While johnny foreigner gets a house for nothing. Maybe they'd be better off going to Africa and getting a passport , then come here and they'll get a free house of the state .

Green party in government due to the Liberal snowflake save the planet student types.

Hopefully an election soon and they get booted out.

More carbon taxes and penalties during a pandemic.

Jinglejangle69

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Green party in government due to the Liberal snowflake save the planet student types.

Hopefully an election soon and they get booted out.

More carbon taxes and penalties during a pandemic.

None of these taxes or penalties could be enacted without the support of ffg though?

political analyst

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There are 7000 people in direct provision. How are they going to magic up homes for 7000 people and then claim that it hasn't bumped anybody down on a housing list? Even if a Secret utopian Town was found in Ireland with homes for 7000 people, people are still going to get bumped on the list.

It ain't going to be the folks in Direct Provision that will be in the homeless shelters, hotels. They are going straight to council housing. It's a fact. O'Gorman saying anything otherwise is complete folly.

There is a lot of apartment building going on right now with social housing specific being added on. It won't be long to work out where those apartments are going to go to.

It's as if the left wing parties are just teeing it up for the rise of true right wing politics.

As it says in the article, the Greens' proposals for housing Direct Provision residents would be open to legal challenge. I surmise the plaintiffs would be aggrieved citizens or other lawful residents.

smurgen

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Fg are not a right wing party. And even if they were people say right wing like it's a bad thing. It isnt

What right wing government internationally would you like us to follow?

Spanish Eyes

There'll be a Revolution yet!

Eric Cartman

smurgen wrote: »

What right wing government internationally would you like us to follow?

Thatchers britain was pretty good, raegans america,

ExMachina1000

smurgen wrote: »

What right wing government internationally would you like us to follow?

Why do you want to follow anyone internationally?

smurgen

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Why do you want to follow anyone internationally?

I don't. I'm not advocating for a right wing government at all. I just want to get an idea of what people advocating for one hope to achieve. Looking at it in an international context will help visualize the possibility or danger of such a government.

Montage of Feck

TomTomTim wrote: »

There's no right wing parties in Ireland. There's left and there's further left.

No party with any bloody common sense anyway.

Frankie Machine

smurgen wrote: »

What are the old principles you feel they're not living up to?

The ones that prompted them to call themselves 'Family of the Irish'.