The Vaccine

Lex Luthor

King Mob wrote: »

No comment on the dozens of points you've been running away from?
Nothing at all?

You've brushed past so many at this stage.

I didnt think so because it would open up a whole can of worms

How can the CMO come out and say that we cant rely on the results of a PCR test and then say that they were x amounts of deaths due to COVID-19 as the confirmed deaths were based on a PCR test?

Surely that questions the number of confirmed deaths then?

aido79

Lex Luthor wrote: »

Where do you get your information then if it's not from YouTube and it's not from mainstream media?

Lex Luthor

aido79 wrote: »

Where do you get your information then if it's not from YouTube and it's not from mainstream media?

if you someone who works on the PCR tests, then its pretty obvious

aido79

Lex Luthor wrote: »

if you someone who works on the PCR tests, then its pretty obvious

What's obvious? Do you actually know someone who works on the PCR tests?
It's used worldwide to test for covid19 so what's your evidence that it's the wrong test to use...or what point are you trying to make?

Dohnjoe

Lex Luthor wrote: »

its an opinion, I'm entitled to it
Children listen to what is being told to them by adults
Some choose to have their own mind and form their own opinion

Most people use logic and reason. I don't see any of that in your views, it's just one inane comment after the other. You are doing a far better job than anyone here of demonstrating how absurd your views on the subject are, but you seem intent on ploughing on.

Lex Luthor

aido79 wrote: »

What's obvious? Do you actually know someone who works on the PCR tests?
It's used worldwide to test for covid19 so what's your evidence that it's the wrong test to use...or what point are you trying to make?

typo in last post, should have been

if you know someone who works on the PCR tests, then its pretty obvious

I never said its the wrong test to use, I referred to it as being not reliable for conclusive proof of COVID-19, which has now been backed up by the CMO

aido79

Lex Luthor wrote: »

typo in last post, should have been

if you know someone who works on the PCR tests, then its pretty obvious

I never said its the wrong test to use, I referred to it as being not reliable for conclusive proof of COVID-19, which has now been backed up by the CMO

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make to be honest. I can't find anything about the cmo saying anything negative about the PCR test so maybe you can provide a link. If it's not the wrong test to use then what are you trying to say?

I'm sure by now you realise this is a worldwide pandemic and the Irish CMO is a very very very( maybe even nano to use your own phrase) tiny part of the big picture.

Lex Luthor

aido79 wrote: »

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make to be honest. I can't find anything about the cmo saying anything negative about the PCR test so maybe you can provide a link. If it's not the wrong test to use then what are you trying to say?

I'm sure by now you realise this is a worldwide pandemic and the Irish CMO is a very very very( maybe even nano to use your own phrase) tiny part of the big picture.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nphet-warns-public-not-to-rely-on-covid-19-tests-before-mixing-with-family-1.4433448

aido79

Lex Luthor wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nphet-warns-public-not-to-rely-on-covid-19-tests-before-mixing-with-family-1.4433448

I can't read the article because it's behind a paywall and will be surprised if you are an Irish Times subscriber given your views on mainstream media.
If you have read it, does it actually mention PCR tests?

Any test regardless of how accurate is only good for the exact time when the test is taken. A person could be tested, confirmed covid negative by a test with 100% accuracy and then contract covid19 an hour later in someone's home or other setting. This might be a better reason not to rely on testing.

Trigger

Lex Luthor wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nphet-warns-public-not-to-rely-on-covid-19-tests-before-mixing-with-family-1.4433448

The below is what you are basing your argument on? The quote you would need to look at here is bolded, where does he say that PCR tests are not valid? He says nothing of the sort there. Also, it is not the CMO that is saying the below it is his assistant.

Public health officials have advised against people getting Covid-19 tests as reassurance before mixing with family members over Christmas.

“We would not advise that as a protective measure,” assistant chief medical officer Dr Ronan Glynn said, adding that “a test is only as good as the context in which it is taken”.

Some testing companies have said more people are seeking precautionary tests to facilitate get-togethers of families and friends over the festive season.

However, Dr Glynn said if people want to protect their families or meet people with underlying conditions there are “many other avenues” available to them.

He urged people to keep their network small over the coming weeks, regardless of testing status, and to ensure that anyone with symptoms or who is feeling under the weather does not meet up with others.

Lex Luthor

aido79 wrote: »

I can't read the article because it's behind a paywall and will be surprised if you are an Irish Times subscriber given your views on mainstream media.
If you have read it, does it actually mention PCR tests?

Any test regardless of how accurate is only good for the exact time when the test is taken. A person could be tested, confirmed covid negative by a test with 100% accuracy and then contract covid19 an hour later in someone's home or other setting. This might be a better reason not to rely on testing.

ahhhh so its ok for elite sports to take the test as reliable so they can compete but not for the general public

If that was the case, any results published daily of confirmed cases cant be taken seriously as there could potetntially be a much higher number going through the testing coming out with a negative result and then contracting it 5 min later

if what you say is true, how does that make sense?

John & Mary from House A get a negative test.
David & Sheila from House B get a negative test
Granny Doris gets a negative test
All go home and stay indoors until they all meet up

But yet NPHET say you still cant rely on those tests

The assistant CMO takes his direction from the CMO

Lex Luthor

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Most people use logic and reason. I don't see any of that in your views, it's just one inane comment after the other. You are doing a far better job than anyone here of demonstrating how absurd your views on the subject are, but you seem intent on ploughing on.

if it wasnt for me this thread would have died weeks ago
I'm keeping the mods in a job

aido79

Lex Luthor wrote: »

ahhhh so its ok for elite sports to take the test as reliable so they can compete but not for the general public

If that was the case, any results published daily of confirmed cases cant be taken seriously as there could potetntially be a much higher number going through the testing coming out with a negative result and then contracting it 5 min later

if what you say is true, how does that make sense?

John & Mary from House A get a negative test.
David & Sheila from House B get a negative test
Granny Doris gets a negative test
All go home and stay indoors until they all meet up

But yet NPHET say you still cant rely on those tests

The assistant CMO takes his direction from the CMO

Elite sports people are tested and then only mix with other people who have been tested so the risk of transmission is very low.

Do you think that the results published every day gives an exact representation of the amount of people in Ireland with covid? It would be ludicrous to think that. It gives an indication of the level of covid19 in the population but there is no way to know for sure how many people have it at any one time due to the amount of asymptomatic cases.

How likely do you think it is for people to do as you say in your example?
There are people who will do as you have described but I think it's unlikely that everyone would do that so I think they are right to say tests can't be relied on as the only measure for keeping everyone safe.

aido79

Lex Luthor wrote: »

if it wasnt for me this thread would have died weeks ago
I'm keeping the mods in a job

They've probably given up...

Lex Luthor

aido79 wrote: »

How likely do you think it is for people to do as you say in your example?
There are people who will do as you have described but I think it's unlikely that everyone would do that so I think they are right to say tests can't be relied on as the only measure for keeping everyone safe.

So if a person gets a negative test, goes home, maybe goes out for a walk, goes to the shops and keeps 2m distance, wears a muzzle and goes home and keeps to themselves, we should still assume that they have a very high probability of catching covid?

King Mob

Lex Luthor wrote: »

I didnt think so because it would open up a whole can of worms

How can the CMO come out and say that we cant rely on the results of a PCR test and then say that they were x amounts of deaths due to COVID-19 as the confirmed deaths were based on a PCR test?

Surely that questions the number of confirmed deaths then?

That's not an answer to any of the points that have been brought up.
You're running away yet again.

Lex Luthor

aido79 wrote: »

Elite sports people are tested and then only mix with other people who have been tested so the risk of transmission is very low.

they are not tested immediately before a match and get the result

its done every few days, of course they are mixing with other people, family etc in that period

They are putting a spin on it so we dont pass the gravy boat

ohnonotgmail

Lex Luthor wrote: »

So if a person gets a negative test, goes home, maybe goes out for a walk, goes to the shops and keeps 2m distance, wears a muzzle and goes home and keeps to themselves, we should still assume that they have a very high probability of catching covid?

having a negative test doesn't make you immune from catching it.

Dohnjoe

Lex Luthor wrote: »

wears a muzzle

What do you call it a muzzle?

A mask reduces the spread the virus. When you cough or sneeze, if you are wearing a mask, it reduces the risk it spreads on droplets. We can talk through it, people have conversations. As mentioned, children can understand this stuff.

The only place I've seen "muzzle" mentioned is on insane conspiracy sites. Why are you parroting stuff from those sites? do you not think for yourself?

aido79

Lex Luthor wrote: »

So if a person gets a negative test, goes home, maybe goes out for a walk, goes to the shops and keeps 2m distance, wears a muzzle and goes home and keeps to themselves, we should still assume that they have a very high probability of catching covid?

Nobody has said they have a high probability of catching covid. You're exaggerating now.
If everyone wears a mask, keeps 2m distance, goes home and keeps to themselves all the time then covid19 disappears. The unfortunate reality is that this is not always possible and that is why it spreads.

aido79

Lex Luthor wrote: »

they are not tested immediately before a match and get the result

its done every few days, of course they are mixing with other people, family etc in that period

They are putting a spin on it so we dont pass the gravy boat

What gravy boat?

Lex Luthor

aido79 wrote: »

What gravy boat?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1124/1180132-covid19-coronavirus-ireland/

aido79

Lex Luthor wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1124/1180132-covid19-coronavirus-ireland/

What would you suggest they tell us to do?
Just carry on as normal and take a chance?

Lex Luthor

aido79 wrote: »

What would you suggest they tell us to do?
Just carry on as normal and take a chance?

So we have to bring our own cutlery/plates to another house and only one person serves the food, yet I can go to a restaurant and use their plates/cutlery, glasses and more than one person serves me, same person serves and collects plates from other tables

are the people working in restaurants getting tested prior to work? No
Yet we are allowed to go to a restaurant
But if a group of people get a test and they all test negative and they all meet up for dinner, then there is a risk to them all passing covid

:rolleyes:

Lex Luthor

BUT BUT BUT............"schools are safe.........."

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1211/1183847-mayo-school-to-close-for-christmas-amid-covid-concerns/

Dohnjoe

Lex Luthor wrote: »

So we have to bring our own cutlery/plates to another house and only one person serves the food, yet I can go to a restaurant and use their plates/cutlery, glasses and more than one person serves me, same person serves and collects plates from other tables

Jesus christ..

It's like you constantly think this is all a big trick, and you are trying to "catch it out"..

Dohnjoe

Pretty serious case of "I don't understand therefore conspiracy" going on here

Gooser14

Lex Luthor wrote:

If that was the case, any results published daily of confirmed cases cant be taken seriously as there could potetntially be a much higher number going through the testing coming out with a negative result and then contracting it 5 min later

Lex Luthor wrote:

The assistant CMO takes his direction from the CMO

I saw the news conference and the question the Deputy CMO was responding to was not in respect of the PCR test. This hasn't been explained in the Times article.

EyesClosed

Lex Luthor wrote: »

BUT BUT BUT............"schools are safe.........."

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1211/1183847-mayo-school-to-close-for-christmas-amid-covid-concerns/

Could you please explain the conspiracy to me? Cause I've read every post in this thread... And I don't understand it at all.

aido79

Lex Luthor wrote: »

So we have to bring our own cutlery/plates to another house and only one person serves the food, yet I can go to a restaurant and use their plates/cutlery, glasses and more than one person serves me, same person serves and collects plates from other tables

are the people working in restaurants getting tested prior to work? No
Yet we are allowed to go to a restaurant
But if a group of people get a test and they all test negative and they all meet up for dinner, then there is a risk to them all passing covid

:rolleyes:

There is nothing in that article that says you have to bring your own cutlery. It's a piece of advice that you either choose to ignore or you can take it on board.

The people serving you in a restaurant aren't going to sit at the table with you while you eat so it's a bit different.

Which part of it's possible to contract covid19 after you've been tested are you struggling with?

Lex Luthor

Gooser14 wrote: »

I saw the news conference and the question the Deputy CMO was responding to was not in respect of the PCR test. This hasn't been explained in the Times article.

what other type of test are they referring to?

Lex Luthor

aido79 wrote: »

There is nothing in that article that says you have to bring your own cutlery. It's a piece of advice that you either choose to ignore or you can take it on board.

If people are having Christmas dinner with others, Prof O'Neill says:

They should bring their own dinnerware

ceegee

Lex Luthor wrote: »

If people are having Christmas dinner with others, Prof O'Neill says:

They should bring their own dinnerware

Yeah, and if they go for a ****e they should wash their hands after. Nobody is forcing you to do either thing.

Trigger

Lex Luthor wrote: »

If people are having Christmas dinner with others, Prof O'Neill says:

They should bring their own dinnerware

Should.. not must, not that you have to. Its an advice from a medical professional, if you want to take that advice thats great, if you don't want to take it, you don't have to. Absolutely no one is going to force you to being your own cutlery to someone's house

King Mob

Lex Luthor wrote: »

what other type of test are they referring to?

Hi, sorry, you seem to be ignoring our calls to go back and deal with the points you've abandoned previously.
Why have you ignored this?

Are you just giving up on those points?

Lex Luthor

you should wear masks in crowded streets - but its been spun by RTE that its law and not guidelines


for a bunch of lads that dont seem to give much credence to a conspiracy here, you are spending an awful lot of time on a conspiracy forum
I'm sure there is a medical forum on here discussing the vaccine where you might not get as much worked up about

When COVID broke, Luke O'Neill mentioned a drug that was very good at treating COVID, used for malaria etc and has been approved for over 70yrs by the FDA
We know he was referring to Hydroxochloroquine

Hasnt mentioned it since, why?

Does he intend to gain financially from a pfizer or modena vaccine?
Does he have financial links to these companies?
Yes & Yes

I'm being constantly asked here about why I cant understand basic principles of COVID etc yet there are far more obvious situations going on under peoples noses that seems they can't get to grip with

eg.

TEST TEST TEST, testing is what we need to do
You shouldnt trust the test

Schools are safe
School tests positive for 12 pupils and shuts early

Wear a mask in a crowded street
no need to wear a mask in a bank or post office

Sit in a barber with a mask on waiting
Sit in a chair and get a wet shave at close quarters for 20min without a mask

Close a shop selling clothes that somebody might need cos its not an essential service
Keep open an ice cream shop or an off license because thats deemed an essential service

No organised indoor events
RTE hold indoor organised event

Lex Luthor

King Mob wrote: »

Hi, sorry, you seem to be ignoring our calls to go back and deal with the points you've abandoned previously.
Why have you ignored this?

Are you just giving up on those points?

I dont expect an answer from my question as there is only one type of test :rolleyes:

Gooser14

Lex Luthor wrote:

what other type of test are they referring to?

He was responding to a question on the rapid antigen test!

Lex Luthor

Gooser14 wrote: »

He was responding to a question on the rapid antigen test!

are these even available especially to the general public ?

It was only being discussed at cabinet to adopt them in special circumstances 3 weeks ago

I doubt the average Joe is going into his GP or presenting themselves for a test and asking for the rapid test over the pcr one

Dohnjoe

Lex Luthor wrote: »

I'm sure there is a medical forum on here discussing the vaccine where you might not get as much worked up about

Okay, and perhaps take your own advice and check on that forum? You aren't presenting any conspiracies and seem really confused about the virus, measures to reduce it and vaccines in general

Lex Luthor

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You aren't presenting any conspiracies

thats not what you said already

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's like you constantly think this is all a big trick

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Pretty serious case of "I don't understand therefore conspiracy" going on here

King Mob

Lex Luthor wrote: »

I dont expect an answer from my question as there is only one type of test :rolleyes:

Ok. So you're not going back to address them and you're running away from them completely.
You can't address them.
Glad you're admiting it at least.

So why do you believe you conspiracy stuff when you have to do stuff like this?

Lex Luthor

King Mob wrote: »

Ok. So you're not going back to address them and you're running away from them completely.
You can't address them.
Glad you're admiting it at least.

So why do you believe you conspiracy stuff when you have to do stuff like this?

I've replied to that comment in relation to the test

scroll up

King Mob

Lex Luthor wrote: »

I've replied to that comment in relation to the test

scroll up

Yes, you were asked about the previous points though. You ignored that question along with the dozens of others.
You ran away.
You admit you can't address any points put to you.

So why do you believe all this conspiracy stuff when you can't defend it and have to act in such a dishonest and cowardly way?
Doesn't the fact you have to constantly dodge and run away and tell lies kinda show you that you're wrong?

aido79

Lex Luthor wrote: »

If people are having Christmas dinner with others, Prof O'Neill says:

They should bring their own dinnerware

As others have said it's advice not something that has to be done.

I may have missed it but what exactly is the conspiracy in your opinion since this is the conspiracy theory forum?
I'm really confused about what your beliefs are. Is it about population control? Is it about big pharmaceutical companies making money? Is it about Luke O'neill making money? Is it about Tony Holohan wanting to get famous? I'd really like to know what it is you actually believe rather than just trying to discredit every piece of advice from people who are experts in disease control because that's all you seem to want to do.

King Mob

aido79 wrote: »

As others have said it's advice not something that has to be done.

I may have missed it but what exactly is the conspiracy in your opinion since this is the conspiracy theory forum?
I'm really confused about what your beliefs are. Is it about population control? Is it about big pharmaceutical companies making money? Is it about Luke O'neill making money? Is it about Tony Holohan wanting to get famous? I'd really like to know what it is you actually believe rather than just trying to discredit every piece of advice from people who are experts in disease control because that's all you seem to want to do.

The reason why he and other conspiracy theorists can't answer that question is because conspiracy promoters on youtube and twitter have learned to keep thinks vague.
But not saying anything definitive, conspiracy mongers can appeal to a wide range of conspiracy believers even though they have completely incompatible beliefs.

This has the issue that their followers can only repeat their shallow catchphrases and points.

aido79

King Mob wrote: »

The reason why he and other conspiracy theorists can't answer that question is because conspiracy promoters on youtube and twitter have learned to keep thinks vague.
But not saying anything definitive, conspiracy mongers can appeal to a wide range of conspiracy believers even though they have completely incompatible beliefs.

This has the issue that their followers can only repeat their shallow catchphrases and points.

The ones that I really don't get are the ones who say one minute it's a hoax and it's no worse than a bad flu and the next minute it's about depopulating the world. These are complete opposite things because if it's just a bad flu then it's not really going to do a very good job at depopulation.

I have yet to see a conspiracy theory that can't be debunked in minutes using a bit of common sense.

King Mob

aido79 wrote: »

I have yet to see a conspiracy theory that can't be debunked in minutes using a bit of common sense.

Used to be a time when there were actual theories to debunk.
But not it's just "something sinister is happening cause of X"
Can't explain what that something is.
Can't explain who's behind it or why.
Can't explain why X isn't actually true or based on twisted facts.
Can't even state their actual beliefs.

All we get back is "I don't have to answer any questions!"

Lex Luthor

King Mob wrote: »

Yes, you were asked about the previous points though. You ignored that question along with the dozens of others.
You ran away.
You admit you can't address any points put to you.

So why do you believe all this conspiracy stuff when you can't defend it and have to act in such a dishonest and cowardly way?
Doesn't the fact you have to constantly dodge and run away and tell lies kinda show you that you're wrong?

resorting to insults now are we?

Lex Luthor

aido79 wrote: »

As others have said it's advice not something that has to be done.

I may have missed it but what exactly is the conspiracy in your opinion since this is the conspiracy theory forum?
I'm really confused about what your beliefs are. Is it about population control? Is it about big pharmaceutical companies making money? Is it about Luke O'neill making money? Is it about Tony Holohan wanting to get famous? I'd really like to know what it is you actually believe rather than just trying to discredit every piece of advice from people who are experts in disease control because that's all you seem to want to do.

it does appear like you have missed it, suggest going back and read through this