The Vaccine

naughtynaughty

Fodla wrote: »

Great post. I agree with you. Ireland is screwed for a number of reasons:

1. The political parties are identical, which means that there's no opposition to the government.

2. There's no alternative media voice to The Irish Times, The Journal and The Irish Independent. In the UK there's Talk Radio, The Telegraph, and The Daily Mail, among others. The Daily Mail, and I don't say it's necessarily a good paper, hammered the government the other day for manipulating data and for their non-stop fear porn. Could you imagine that happening in Ireland? No chance.

3. RTÉ is a propaganda outfit that promotes nothing but doom and gloom.

4. Ireland is a post-propagandised country. That means the majority, as what is going on is proving, is very easy to manipulate and control.

Yeah... I think I will move to UK as soon as I can. It's horrible too but at least there's some fight left.

Dohnjoe

naughtynaughty wrote: »

I will not take an experimental (RNA) vaccine that hasn't been tested for more than a year.

Current vaccines have each been tested on 10's of thousands of people.

I will not give up my bodily integrity to save myself from a disease which only kills 0.05% of people.

Yes, if you are young, you'll likely be fine, the worry is spreading it to older relatives.

I would rather die proud. I will not let them inject me with anything for as long as I will live unless *I* deem it necessary.

This is the same nonsense that anti-vaxxers come up with, and now we have preventable diseases like measles making a come-back.

Just 104 years ago, we had great men who revolted against the most powerful empire on earth. And now what do we do? Just comply.

Diseases don't care about your world views or ideals, they just spread. The best way to stop that with e.g. this current pandemic, is to socially distance, wear masks, and obviously for most people to take vaccines when they are available.

Jim2007

Fodla wrote: »

There was an article in the New York Times today or yesterday about Bill Gates' mission to vaccinate the global population. Why does he want to do that?

Bill Gates is not the issue at this stage, it’s Dolly Parton that should scare the hell out of you. We now know she has been funding the research for some time now, flying under the radar for ages, what is that all about?

Fodla

naughtynaughty wrote: »

Yeah... I think I will move to UK as soon as I can. It's horrible too but at least there's some fight left.

The problem is that there are a lot of very nice and decent people in Ireland, and the countryside is hauntingly beautiful. But the country is banjaxed and I see no hope for the country. It's not sustainable to have identical political parties, which means no real opposition, identical newspapers that all sign from the same hymn sheet.

But I'd be wary of moving to the UK. They're set to introduce freedom passes there next month and the propaganda there is immense as well. But there have been protests there and there is some balance in the media. They even have a former Supreme Court Judge in Lord Sumption speaking out against the government. Could you imagine that happening in Ireland?

Fodla

Fodla wrote: »

I'm not advancing a conspiracy theory. I'm wondering why they (by 'they' I mean people like Gates, Fauci, scientists, politicians etc) are calling for 7.5 billion people to be vaccinated.

Lol. "I'm not a conspiracy theorist" "I believe they are up to something sinister."

Sorry guy, you're a conspiracy theorist. You believe in a very silly conspiracy theory.

Fodla wrote: »

I never mentioned anything about depopulation or a new world order.

So then you agree those conspiracy theories are wrong and silly, correct?

Fodla wrote: »

Why do you think they want to vaccinate the planet as opposed to being content to vaccinate 60 to 70%, of the population in order to achieve herd immunity?

Well for one, you haven't show that that's what they want.
As we've seen in the other thread, you take things out of context and apply meaning that isn't there.
And for two, you haven't explained what you think. So please do.

naughtynaughty

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Current vaccines have each been tested on 10's of thousands of people.

Yeah, have the long-term effects been tested? Is 10k people enough to vaccinate a whole planet?

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Yes, if you are young, you'll likely be fine, the worry is spreading it to older relatives.

Surely they'll be vaccinated so all good.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Diseases don't care about your world views or ideals, they just spread. The best way to stop that with e.g. this current pandemic, is to socially distance, wear masks, and obviously for most people to take vaccines when they are available.

I really don't get why you'd mention masks and social distancing. I live on this planet too, don't you think I've heard that before? If masks and social distancing work so well then how come we are facing a "worse" second wave when compliance rates are through the roof? (as much as RTE would have you believe otherwise) Seriously, when was the last time you saw someone go maskless in Dunnes? Do you remember, before July not a single person wore a mask. Even my mother thought the idea of them was ridiculous.

EDIT: Actually a little experiment: Next time you are in a shop count how many seconds you can go without hearing or reading "mask", "mandatory", "covid" or "social distancing". If you can beat my current record of 4 seconds then well done!

naughtynaughty

naughtynaughty wrote: »

Seems I got that wrong actually, it's a bit higher but not much. I could have sworn I saw better stats on that from the CDC... Anyway it's still extremely low, and it doesn't change my point on my right to bodily integrity.

Not really. And you're ignoring that majority of the questions I asked you.

And what about the bodily integrity of other people to not be infected by a virus?
Why does your right to bodily integrity supersede other people's rights just because you have unfounded fears about a vaccine fueled mostly by antiscientific and conspiracy theory crap you've read on the internet?

naughtynaughty

naughtynaughty wrote: »

Yeah, have the long-term effects been tested? Is 10k people enough to vaccinate a whole planet?

You're claiming that COVID is completely safe and without any long term effects.

You're being very hypocritical here.

naughtynaughty

What do you mean by unsustainable? Do you have examples of other countries that fell using a similar system?

Dohnjoe

Fodla wrote: »

Based on their wanting to vaccinate 7.5 billion people,

It's a figure of speech

through making the vaccine mandatory

It's not being made mandatory in general

or through coercion (not being able to take part in society unless vaccinated) they are not content for enough people to take the vaccine. They want the planet to be vaccinated.

No one is being coerced. You are misrepresenting things, why?

There is a pandemic. We are producing vaccines for it. Once done, then people will take those vaccines (or not). The more people that take them the more effective they will be, hence scientists encourage it.

penno

It is terrible that anyone who voices their reservations about taking the vaccine are called 'conspiracy theorists' or shot down straight away as having no clue as to how a vaccine works.

I am not going to pushed into getting a vaccine, that I know very little about and one that is in its infancy. similarities to the Swine Flu jab that was pushed onto the public only to later have numerous cases of people suffering secondary ailments as a result of a rushed out vaccine that seems to have disappeared altogether now.
Also It is not like we all haven't been lied to by the government before, they are almost masters of f**k ups and cover ups at this stage, (cover up of Cervical Cancer comes to mind)
I am even starting to doubt the number of Covid deaths there are in Ireland. Nearly a year in and we've still no real stats on those deaths regarding underlying illness etc. Is it still a case of a Covid positive person that gets run over by a bus still dies of Covid nothing else?!!
And young people, why should they even want to be vaccinated when it doesn't even effect them any more than a mild cold.
Lots of questions and doubts buzzing around my head, but I'm sure i will get lynched now for daring to even mention them!

I don't wish to get into any tit for tat on how I don't know anything.

feedmindc19

feedmindc19 wrote: »

Yes. How do you not realize a bored billionaire Bill g what does he give a ****e about you or me or john and mary living down the bog road why do you and the rest of Ireland think your so important to some billionaire prick ffs ... and not just one billionaire prick

So his true motivation is...?

penno

penno wrote: »

It is terrible that anyone who voices their reservations about taking the vaccine are called 'conspiracy theorists' or shot down straight away as having no clue as to how a vaccine works.

Yea dude, when people are suggesting that the world leaders are actually in cahoots to reset the world into a communist utopia, and people are saying stuff like "We don't need vaccines because our immune system will just take care of the virus", the labels fit.

If anything you should be telling those folks off for muddying the waters.

Dohnjoe

naughtynaughty wrote: »

Yeah, have the long-term effects been tested? Is 10k people enough to vaccinate a whole planet?

One of the current vaccines has had trials with approx 40k people, with no side-effects. Appears to be 90% effective. Will likely launch in the next month or two. Nothing is 100% risk-free, and the people who create these vaccines know that their families, their relatives will be taking them. I suspect many older people will have no hesitations taking the vaccine considering the impact Covid has on older people

I really don't get why you'd mention masks and social distancing. I live on this planet too, don't you think I've heard that before? If masks and social distancing work so well then how come we are facing a "worse" second wave when compliance rates are through the roof?

Masks and social distancing mitigate the virus. How well they mitigate the virus depends on how well they are used/followed. Compliance rates were certainly not "through the roof". Likewise vaccines don't work if no one takes them.

(as much as RTE would have you believe otherwise) Seriously, when was the last time you saw someone go maskless in Dunnes? Do you remember, before July not a single person wore a mask. Even my mother thought the idea of them was ridiculous.

What is your point?

EDIT: Actually a little experiment: Next time you are in a shop count how many seconds you can go without hearing or reading "mask", "mandatory", "covid" or "social distancing". If you can beat my current record of 4 seconds then well done!

Because there's a global pandemic, people not only have to be told, but rules and laws have to be created because we don't follow guidelines. What's your point?

naughtynaughty

King Mob wrote: »

Sorry, how do you know this?
How do you know the long term effects of the virus on everyone it effects?
How do you know that the death rate is actually this low? (It's not) And how do you know that it can't change?

We've only had it for a year and according to you, that is not enough time to understand it.

Seems a bit hypocritical to me.?

Yes I can see why it seems hypocritical, but I have reasons for it. Before I go on though I'll say that using words like "crap" and "pseudoscientific" to describe my opinion is not a very effective way to argue.

Following from that, to answer your previous questions:

King Mob wrote: »

How do you know the long term effects of the virus on everyone it effects?

We don't, but people seem to recover well.

King Mob wrote: »

And how do you know that it can't change?

It can change but doesn't look like it will.

King Mob wrote: »

And what about the bodily integrity of other people to not be infected by a virus?

Surely they will be vaccinated right?

Now, to address my "hypocrisy" I have 3 points. Firstly the virus has been around for more than a year, vaccine efforts have been around for at most half of that. Secondly, the vaccine is man-made and acts on a virus that even you say is not very well understood. Humans are quite flawed and terrible things can happen if we **** this up. Thirdly, whether or not this disease is bad (I think it's probably not going by "initial evidence" shall we call it), why introduce another variable into the mix? So, we're already in a bad situation where we have an at least somewhat bad disease. What happens if we really mess up with this and it's worse than the disease?

Dohnjoe

penno wrote: »

It is terrible that anyone who voices their reservations about taking the vaccine are called 'conspiracy theorists' or shot down straight away as having no clue as to how a vaccine works.

Posters hinting at a conspiracy

I am even starting to doubt the number of Covid deaths there are in Ireland. Nearly a year in and we've still no real stats on those deaths regarding underlying illness etc. Is it still a case of a Covid positive person that gets run over by a bus still dies of Covid nothing else?!!

Right, so you are claiming the stats are wrong, apart from personal incredulity, do you have any basis for that?

And young people, why should they even want to be vaccinated when it doesn't even effect them any more than a mild cold.

Because they can spread it to their older relatives

Lots of questions and doubts buzzing around my head, but I'm sure i will get lynched now for daring to even mention them!

Usually perfectly normal explanations for things

spring lane jack

My friend that I haven't seen in person since July got the virus and its not affecting him in any way, he had the Covid app on his phone and the HSE sent several texts to my phone in a very threatening manner, the type of texts that would put fear into someone who believes all this jazz and buys into the hype. They then spent four days ringing me from three different numbers, so many calls I put the phone on silent. I'm having no hand part or act in this charade and even though I'm in the so called at risk category I won't be taking any vaccine.

Dohnjoe

spring lane jack wrote: »

My friend that I haven't seen in person since July got the virus and its not affecting him in any way, he had the Covid app on his phone and the HSE sent several texts to my phone in a very threatening manner, the type of texts that would put fear into someone who believes all this jazz and buys into the hype. They then spent four days ringing me from three different numbers, so many calls I put the phone on silent. I'm having no hand part or act in this charade and even though I'm in the so called at risk category I won't be taking any vaccine.

Jesus christ

1. You do realise they were trying to contact trace your friend?

2. What is the "charade"?

naughtynaughty

naughtynaughty wrote: »

Yes I can see why it seems hypocritical, but I have reasons for it. Before I go on though I'll say that using words like "crap" and "pseudoscientific" to describe my opinion is not a very effective way to argue.

But unfortunately, there is a lot of psudoscientific crap going around out there. And we're seeing a lot of it on this forum.
You arguments also share a lot with the common arguments from antivaxxers.

naughtynaughty wrote: »

We don't, but people seem to recover well.

It can change but doesn't look like it will.

Again, what are you basing this on? What research has been done on the long term effects inside a year?
If you're rejecting the vaccine because of this reason, you've no basis for concluding that there's no long term effects of the virus.

In fact, there's a lot of cases where the virus has left long lasting damage. We can't know the extent however, because it hasn't been very long.

naughtynaughty wrote: »

Surely they will be vaccinated right?

Again, it seems like you don't actually understand how vaccines work.
Sure, if 99% of all people are vaccinated, then it's not really an issue.
But then, why do you get to be part of the 1%? What if large portions of the population don't get the vaccine? Do they forfeit their right not to catch the virus from you?

What about the people who can't get vaccines for one reason or another? Either due to immunodeficiency issues or allergies? Tough luck to them, guess they have to stay home cause your rights to refuse a vaccine based of internet research trumps their rights to free movement or bodily integrity?

naughtynaughty wrote: »

Now, to address my "hypocrisy" I have 3 points. Firstly the virus has been around for more than a year, vaccine efforts have been around for at most half of that.

Yet you keep claiming that the virus and it's long term effects are understood enough to be deemed not an issue.
So if the vaccine is tested for another 6 months, then it will be alright?

What about the prior research in vaccines and previous experience in vaccines? Does all of that just not count?

naughtynaughty wrote: »

Secondly, the vaccine is man-made and acts on a virus that even you say is not very well understood. Humans are quite flawed and terrible things can happen if we **** this up.

And again, you claim that despite this, the virus is more well understood than the vaccine. That's a contradiction to me.

And you say terrible things can happen, what terrible things can happen with the vaccine specifically?

naughtynaughty wrote: »

Thirdly, whether or not this disease is bad (I think it's probably not going by "initial evidence" shall we call it), why introduce another variable into the mix?
So, we're already in a bad situation where we have an at least somewhat bad disease. What happens if we really mess up with this and it's worse than the disease?

What happens if we do nothing?
What happens if the virus gets worse?

I could also point to vague, unsubstantiated doomsday scenarios based on those options too.

It seems a lot like conspiracy theorists and anti vaxxers are fine with a few million people just dying to appease their paranoia.

feedmindc19

King Mob wrote: »

So his true motivation is...?

I suspect that the very introduction of more control (just like after 9/11) through AI will take place nicely and insidiously. Elon Musk have tried to chip a pig if I do not remember wrong.

feedmindc19

feedmindc19 wrote: »

I suspect that the very introduction of more control (just like after 9/11) through AI will take place nicely and insidiously. Elon Musk have tried to chip a pig if I do not remember wrong.

So you believe that Bill Gates is part of a plot to chip people using this vaccine, correct?

spring lane jack

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Jesus christ

1. You do realise they were trying to contact trace your friend?

2. What is the "charade"?

My friend is the one with the virus, I haven't seen him in person since July so they can piss off annoying me. I wouldn't answer as by playing ball with them then I'm only encouraging them to continue their rubbish.
If you don't know what I meant by charade then you should look at the thread title.

Dohnjoe

feedmindc19 wrote: »

I suspect that the very introduction of more control (just like after 9/11) through AI will take place nicely and insidiously. Elon Musk have tried to chip a pig if I do not remember wrong.

Right, are you suggesting something nefarious will be happening if I go to my local GP for a jab, if yes, what is it exactly? and why?

feedmindc19

feedmindc19 wrote: »

big question is...

Sorry, no. The question was if you believe that Bill Gates was part of a plan to chip people.

You dodged that to go off on some odd religious rant.

However, thank you for demonstrating the odd thinking behind a lot of these notions.

feedmindc19

King Mob wrote: »

Sorry, no. The question was if you believe that Bill Gates was part of a plan to chip people..

No I dont. Not straight away the right technology for what he wants is is not here yet. Ask me in ten years.

feedmindc19

feedmindc19 wrote: »

No I dont. Not straight away the right technology for what he wants is is not here yet. Ask me in ten years.

You're contradicting yourself here. I think this is because you don't have the conspiracy theory very well thought out in your head. Most likely because you've never thought about it and only just parrot what you're reading from paranoid youtube videos.

In what way is Bill Gates involved? Why?
What will happen in 10 years?

Another of your fellow conspiracy theorists was claiming that the vaccine would alter people's DNA to allow them to link to an AI. Do you believe this?

naughtynaughty

King Mob wrote: »

But unfortunately, there is a lot of psudoscientific crap going around out there. And we're seeing a lot of it on this forum.
You arguments also share a lot with the common arguments from antivaxxers.

Ah why are you using the term "antivaxxer", it's NPC talk. Yep, I'm anti-vaccine. Anti this vaccine.

King Mob wrote: »

Again, what are you basing this on? What research has been done on the long term effects inside a year?

This is a variant of "Coronavirus" which has been around since the beginning of man. A stronger strain of something we've always had, and had never attempted to vaccinate against.

King Mob wrote: »

In fact, there's a lot of cases where the virus has left long lasting damage. We can't know the extent however, because it hasn't been very long.

Same with 'flu, you're watching too much RTE.

King Mob wrote: »

Again, it seems like you don't actually understand how vaccines work.
Sure, if 99% of all people are vaccinated, then it's not really an issue.
But then, why do you get to be part of the 1%? What if large portions of the population don't get the vaccine? Do they forfeit their right not to catch the virus from you?

Lol, thanks again for the condescending tone. To answer the bolded section. Yup.

King Mob wrote: »

What about the people who can't get vaccines for one reason or another? Either due to immunodeficiency issues or allergies? Tough luck to them, guess they have to stay home cause your rights to refuse a vaccine based of internet research trumps their rights to free movement or bodily integrity?

That's a great idea! I will add this to my arsenal of ways of getting out of having to take it.

King Mob wrote: »

Yet you keep claiming that the virus and it's long term effects are understood enough to be deemed not an issue.
So if the vaccine is tested for another 6 months, then it will be alright?

I'd give it 4-5 years, same with the normal amount of time it takes to make a vaccine.

King Mob wrote: »

What about the prior research in vaccines and previous experience in vaccines? Does all of that just not count?

This is an RNA messenger vaccine. New tech.

King Mob wrote: »

And you say terrible things can happen, what terrible things can happen with the vaccine specifically?

I dunno. I'm sure narcolepsy wasn't a concern with the swine flu jab. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/woman-settles-case-alleging-swine-flu-vaccine-link-to-narcolepsy-1.4088119

I knew that girl. My brother got it too.

King Mob wrote: »

What happens if we do nothing?
What happens if the virus gets worse?

I could also point to vague, unsubstantiated doomsday scenarios based on those options too.

It seems a lot like conspiracy theorists and anti vaxxers are fine with a few million people just dying to appease their paranoia.

Here's where we'll disagree. I, unlike you perhaps, believe in the validity of the Theory of Evolution. Survival of the fittest. There are already so many people on this planet that we are not only trashing it with obscene amounts of pollution, but we are actually warming the planet. Why not let the strong survive and the weak die off? I'm not saying that because I am strong, I'm saying that because that is the natural order.

My disappointments with this virus is 1) that the people can be so easily controlled and 2) that it's not deadly enough. Wouldn't you like a world where just the strongest survived?

naughtynaughty

naughtynaughty wrote: »

Here's where we'll disagree. I, unlike you perhaps, believe in the validity of the Theory of Evolution. Survival of the fittest. There are already so many people on this planet that we are not only trashing it with obscene amounts of pollution, but we are actually warming the planet. Why not let the strong survive and the weak die off? I'm not saying that because I am strong, I'm saying that because that is the natural order.

My disappointments with this virus is 1) that the people can be so easily controlled and 2) that it's not deadly enough. Wouldn't you like a world where just the strongest survived?

Yea. Started to type an actual reply to you. Got to this and decided that it was going to be a waste of effort.
Either you are a troll or you actually believe this.

Either way...

Again, people are doing a bang up job showing the kinds of thinking behind the conspiracy theories.

feedmindc19

feedmindc19 wrote: »

We are all entitled to our beliefs do I mock your belief , if you choose to believe your money grabbing ,spineless good for nothing EU/irish governments and choose to believe they have your interests at heart well be my guest. But unfortunatly my eyes are open to their bull**** and when youve seen the crap its hard to unsee. I would like to be niave and only have tunnel vision. But I dont and to answer your question again Yes I do believe it. Its the end of the world as we know it.

And you've dodged the questions again.

This is because you can't answer them I think.

You believe all this silly conspiracy stuff, yet you can't at all defend it.
Why believe it when you can't make sense of it?

Also, what happens when the world doesn't end like it didn't for every single time you guys predicted it? Will you reevaluated your beliefs? Or will you just push it back 10 years again and recycle all this nonsense for the next pandemic or crisis?

naughtynaughty

King Mob wrote: »

Yea. Started to type an actual reply to you. Got to this and decided that it was going to be a waste of effort.
Either you are a troll or you actually believe this.

Either way...

Again, people are doing a bang up job showing the kinds of thinking behind the conspiracy theories.

He he he.

I took a brief look at your post history man. You seem to be a full blown anti-conspiracy-theorist. The kind who solemnly gobbles up what the media tell you as fact. Not good for your mental health buddy especially when we are being imprisoned locked down Take care of yourself dude, maybe go watch some Alex Jones or something, try to balance your perspective a bit because you're too far on the other side.

naughtynaughty

King Mob wrote: »

And you've dodged the questions again.

This is because you can't answer them I think.

You believe all this silly conspiracy stuff, yet you can't at all defend it.
Why believe it when you can't make sense of it?

Also, what happens when the world doesn't end like it didn't for every single time you guys predicted it? Will you reevaluate your beliefs? Or will you just push it back 10 years again and recycle all this nonsense for the next pandemic or crisis?

Of course he can't answer them! He doesn't know the answers, he just (rightly) knows that something very bad is happening. Do you expect him to have just been back from lunch with Bill Gates himself after he just divulged his entire master plan? I don't know if Gates has anything to do with anything.. but I'll tell you some bad is happening and as your man said, his eyes are open. Open your eyes.

Bolded part: lumping everyone into one category, us vs them mentality... Full of logical fallacies you are.

naughtynaughty

naughtynaughty wrote: »

He he he.

I took a brief look at your post history man. You seem to be a full blown anti-conspiracy-theorist. The kind who solemnly gobbles up what the media tell you as fact. Not good for your mental health buddy especially when we are being imprisoned locked down Take care of yourself dude, maybe go watch some Alex Jones or something, try to balance your perspective a bit because you're too far on the other side.

Yea. I really should consider the possiblity it's all a big conspiracy to depopulate the world by a vast cabal of secret satanists who are also going to give us the mark of the beast.

I'm sure the truth is some where between my position and that...

But in reality the reason I don't buy into any conspiracy theories is because they all share the same sort of bull****.
As you and your buddies have been demonstrating, that's the case with this one.

Also, lol. "Imprisoned." I assume you're forced to wear "muzzles" too, right? :rolleyes:

naughtynaughty

naughtynaughty wrote: »

Of course he can't answer them! He doesn't know the answers, he just (rightly) knows that something very bad is happening. Do you expect him to have just been back from lunch with Bill Gates himself after he just divulged his entire master plan? I don't know if Gates has anything to do with anything.. but I'll tell you some bad is happening and as your man said, his eyes are open. Open your eyes.

Bolded part: lumping everyone into one category, us vs them mentality... Full of logical fallacies you are.

No, I expect someone proposing a belief, especially one they are purporting as truth, and especially when they are decrying the non believers to be dumb sheep, to have a consistent, rational explanation.

But most conspiracy theorists don't, because their theories aren't rational or consistent.

And yes, I'm lumping him and yourself in with other conspiracy theorists who have claimed all of this crap before.
There isn't any difference.

naughtynaughty

King Mob wrote: »

Yea. I really should consider the possiblity it's all a big conspiracy to depopulate the world by a vast cabal of secret satanists who are also going to give us the mark of the beast.

I'm sure the truth is some where between my position and that...

But in reality the reason I don't buy into any conspiracy theories is because they all share the same sort of bull****.
As you and your buddies have been demonstrating, that's the case with this one.

Also, lol. "Imprisoned." I assume you're forced to wear "muzzles" too, right? :rolleyes:

I never mentioned anything about the mark of the beast, or anything like that. I think theories like that are partly fun and are not meant to be taken entirely seriously. When I was talking about depopulation, I was referring to the natural covid culling the population, not the vaccine. I think possibly the vaccine will just make the populus more malleable (not that ireland even needs that lol). Maybe it won't, maybe the people who make the vaccine are only trying to do good. Maybe they're only trying to make a profit. Who knows. We just don't know.

I don't mind wearing the mask if it'll shut them up. I mean I have to wear clothes too right. But there could be something to it. I mean, in muslim countries they make the women cover their faces. Reasons for that? Maybe it makes them more submissive? Depersonalises them?

As for the lockdown, do you really enjoy it? As I said in my original post, do you think 2 years of someone's prime is worth 5 years of someone's dying years?

naughtynaughty

King Mob wrote: »

No, I expect someone proposing a belief, especially one they are purporting as truth, and especially when they are decrying the non believers to be dumb sheep, to have a consistent, rational explanation.

But most conspiracy theorists don't, because their theories aren't rational or consistent.

And yes, I'm lumping him and yourself in with other conspiracy theorists who have claimed all of this crap before.
There isn't any difference.

Well, I personally don't think it's been claimed too often in the way I am as I was saying with not believing in all the mad ones. I try to hone in on what is rational and what I see going on around me. I don't like it when people take away my rights and time after time again in the past few months more and more of our rights have been taken away. This is a genuine concern and there should be more fight against it. If I told you last year that the government had the power to tell us that we couldn't leave our homes past 2km you would have laughed at me and told me yet again that I was the conspiracy theorist. Now you are lapping it up.

Doesn't matter what either of us say though man, we are 2 losers arguing about something we have no control over at 4am on the internet.

EDIT: I am going to bed now but actually I don't mean to call you a loser of course, that is a joke and it's all in good sport. Was actually quite fun and weirdly therapeutic thrashing this out. Good night friend!

naughtynaughty

naughtynaughty wrote: »

I never mentioned anything about the mark of the beast, or anything like that. I think theories like that are partly fun and are not meant to be taken entirely seriously

Oh no, people aren't proposing them for fun.
And yes, most of the conspiracy theorists here have been talking about "marks of the beast etc".
They've been doing that for years.

naughtynaughty

naughtynaughty wrote: »

Doesn't matter what either of us say though man, we are 2 losers arguing about something we have no control over at 4am on the internet.

I mean you could stop promoting and posting unscientific, silly conspiracy crap and spreading misinformation.
That probably wouldn't hurt the situation.

naughtynaughty

King Mob wrote: »

Oh no, people aren't proposing them for fun.
And yes, most of the conspiracy theorists here have been talking about "marks of the beast etc".
They've been doing that for years.

Ugh, sorry one more. It's just too god damn juicy.

No that is absolutely not true. There's actually a conspiracy-conspiracy going on. There are very real and genuine issues, but obscenely ridiculous theories like that are thrown into the mix to discredit the ones that actually are real. Do you honestly think that everything you've been told is true? Not even remotely possible. Do you think the ruling class don't have things they want to hide from you? Of course they do. Real, scary things. Do you think that aliens actually didn't land in Roswell? (lol jk... or am I?) The term "conspiracy theorist" was coined just after JFK and that is still used in effect today (even by you) to discredit wrongthink. "antivaxxer" is similar.

Purging the sh*te from the truth is incredibly difficult, and you must do it yourself. Of course it's much easier to just believe the news and I wish I could, but I just can't. Especially RTE, CNN, etc. I just see screaming propaganda.

naughtynaughty

naughtynaughty wrote: »

Ugh, sorry one more. It's just too god damn juicy.

No that is absolutely not true. There's actually a conspiracy-conspiracy going on. There are very real and genuine issues, but obscenely ridiculous theories like that are thrown into the mix to discredit the ones that actually are real.

Nope. The obscenely ridiculous theories have always existed. They spring up naturally all the time. The government wouldn't need to make them up.
You cats come up with them all by yourselves.
And when you come across them, you don't do anything to counter them, cause that raises uncomfortable thinking about your own pet conspiracy theories.

CountNjord

harrylittle wrote: »

What worries me is governments what to inject me with a vaccine that's rushed out with a few months of research with no long term testing , no real evidence that the vaccine actually works and worst of all the companies making the vaccine are free from liability and a computer guy also involved in making vaccines grinning from ear to ear while lecturing about global depopulation on ted talks.

Don't mind that computer guy, he's just being used by the pharmaceutical companies for research money, he's not as clever as one might think.

He's a knob, and it's a cry for help since Google have taken over he's hanging onto straw's and seething with resentment

Dohnjoe

naughtynaughty wrote: »

There's actually a conspiracy-conspiracy going on.

Cool, what is it exactly?

ohnonotgmail

Fodla wrote: »

I'm not advancing a conspiracy theory. I'm wondering why they (by 'they' I mean people like Gates, Fauci, scientists, politicians etc) are calling for 7.5 billion people to be vaccinated. I never mentioned anything about depopulation or a new world order. I referred to a new world order in the context of the Great Reset, but regarding vaccines, all I'm wondering is why there is a push to vaccinate 7.5 billion people.

Why do you think they want to vaccinate the planet as opposed to being content to vaccinate 60 to 70%, of the population in order to achieve herd immunity?

why do you think vaccinating 60-70% of the population will achieve herd immunity? what are you basing that on?

Fodla

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why do you think vaccinating 60-70% of the population will achieve herd immunity? what are you basing that on?

Numerous experts have said that 60 to 70% would result in herd immunity.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/24/citi-on-when-covid-19-vaccines-will-result-in-herd-immunity-globally.html

“In general, vaccine coverage should reach at least 70% to form some herd immunity,”

ohnonotgmail

Fodla wrote: »

Numerous experts have said that 60 to 70% would result in herd immunity.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/24/citi-on-when-covid-19-vaccines-will-result-in-herd-immunity-globally.html

“In general, vaccine coverage should reach at least 70% to form some herd immunity,”

at least 70 to form SOME herd immunity. in reality you need a lot more than that.

Ten of Swords

GT89 wrote: »

There is not a pandemic its a plandemic. The vaccine has been there for years and they are waiting until the right time to release it to the population

Who is 'they'?

This is usually where this daft nonsense falls down. Who is 'they' and what is 'their' reason for it? Explain it like I'm five.

Hoboo

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Who is 'they'?

This is usually where this daft nonsense falls down. Who is 'they' and what is 'their' reason for it? Explain it like I'm five.

I'd also be interested to know where they've been storing it.

Ten of Swords

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Who is 'they'?

This is usually where this daft nonsense falls down. Who is 'they' and what is 'their' reason for it? Explain it like I'm five.

So far the list is:
Every world leader.
All governments.
All doctors and scientific organisations.
The WEF and other NGOs
All financial organizations.
Every media organisation up to and including RTE.

I think the only one not involved is Trump, yet for some reason he hasn't tweeted out the whole secret plan.

km991148

King Mob wrote: »

So far the list is:
Every world leader.
All governments.
All doctors and scientific organisations.
The WEF and other NGOs
All financial organizations.
Every media organisation up to and including RTE.

I think the only one not involved is Trump, yet for some reason he hasn't tweeted out the whole secret plan.

But he miraculously got 'better' real quick..

It was Trump all along!!

naughtynaughty

naughtynaughty wrote: »

He he he.

I took a brief look at your post history man. You seem to be a full blown anti-conspiracy-theorist. The kind who solemnly gobbles up what the media tell you as fact. Not good for your mental health buddy especially when we are being imprisoned locked down Take care of yourself dude, maybe go watch some Alex Jones or something, try to balance your perspective a bit because you're too far on the other side.

Incredible. My oldest friend has completely gone off the deep end and thinks like you. I don't know how to talk to him about this kind of stuff. He's convinced every piece of media is lying yet somehow decides to believe someone like Alex Jones. It's sad to see. I don't know how to get through to him.

km991148

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Incredible. My oldest friend has completely gone off the deep end and thinks like you. I don't know how to talk to him about this kind of stuff. He's convinced every piece of media is lying yet somehow decides to believe someone like Alex Jones. It's sad to see. I don't know how to get through to him.

The same sorts will tell you big tech are also in the censorship game.. blissfully ignorant to how Google etc actually work and watch channel after channel that Google spoon feeds them in order to make money.. training the recommendation engines to brainwash them with more crap. It's really Turkeys voting for Christmas bs.

Tbh.. there is your real conspiracy.. gov should break this up but they won't because come election time, targeted social media advertising is the only way to get votes these days..