The Vaccine

runawaybishop

Lex Luthor wrote: »

What are they?

You don't do your own research? Like we have mentioned them several times in this thread already. I thought you were an expert on this stuff and worked in the field? Could it be you are full of it? Get up to speed and then come back to me.

Lex Luthor

Fighting Tao wrote: »

You conveniently ignore that there is a flu vaccine too, and it has been given to children as young as two, right up to the oldest people in Ireland.

Imagine with that success, what the success could be with the covid vaccine and masks!

You mean the flu vaccine that was handed out recently in primary schools and now all of a sudden we have a spike in flu like symptoms in school going age children

runawaybishop

GT89 wrote: »

If the vaccine stops you from getting sick then no need for masks as if you do spread covid the people around you won't get sick as they are vaccinated

As you have been told in another thread this is wrong. Masks are not to protect the individual. They are to protect people like you.

Lex Luthor

runawaybishop wrote: »

You don't do your own research? Like we have mentioned them several times in this thread already. I thought you were an expert on this stuff and worked in the field? Could it be you are full of it? Get up to speed and then come back to me.

I’d like to know what you think they are?

If you tell me the MMR then I’ll challenge you on that

None of my kids got it and I’m not in jail yet or fined for it many many years later

runawaybishop

Lex Luthor wrote: »

You mean the flu vaccine that was handed out recently in primary schools and now all of a sudden we have a spike in flu like symptoms in school going age children

No. Stop lying. You posted above that flu is gone and now you intimate that it's everywhere. Try and get your lies straight at least.

Lex Luthor

runawaybishop wrote: »

As you have been told in another thread this is wrong. Masks are not to protect the individual. They are to protect people like you.

I don’t need protection
Please don’t wear one on my behalf

Hmmm that’s a T-shirt idea

Quiner

Lex Luthor wrote: »

It wasn’t an interview
It was him talking to a group of secondary school students with his deluded ideas of unremovable wrist bracelets to show proof of vaccine

That's definitely a conspiracy theory. I know he said it, but it's definitely a conspiracy theory. I know Health Passport Ireland, in its promo video, described their Chinese style social credit system app being used for restaurants, concerts, shops, stadia, hospitals, offices, and travel, but it's definitely a conspiracy theory.

runawaybishop

Lex Luthor wrote: »

I don’t need protection
Please don’t wear one on my behalf

Hmmm that’s a T-shirt idea

Again, another misrepresentation of what was said. What a surprise.

King Mob

harrylittle wrote: »

How many died because of covid not died with covid ?

1.7 million people died due to covid.

If you have a better more accurate figure provide it and the source for that figure.

If you don't, admit you can't provide it.
So far conspiracy theorists have been running away from this point because they know they can't answer it directly.

I like how this has become the new mantra for deniers now.

King Mob

King Mob wrote: »

1.7 million people died due to covid.

If you have a better more accurate figure provide it and the source for that figure.

If you don't, admit you can't provide it.
So far conspiracy theorists have been running away from this point because they know they can't answer it directly.

I like how this has become the new mantra for deniers now.

Can you prove that many people died due to covid?..not with it, due to it..

Even the numbers here, didn't they come out and say the numbers were inflated by a third, and they just left them..

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you prove that many people died due to covid?..not with it, due to it...

Yes.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-toll/

Again, if you have a more accurate number, provide it.
You, like all the other conspiracy theorists have dodged the question.
This is because you can't provide the number and don't want to admit it.

Deleted User wrote: »

Even the numbers here, didn't they come out and say the numbers were inflated by a third, and they just left them..

Another lie.

Why do you guys have to lie at every stage?
Doesn't this tell you what you believe isn't true?

King Mob

King Mob wrote: »

Another lie.

Why do you guys have to lie at every stage?
Doesn't this tell you what you believe isn't true?

https://www.thejournal.ie/covid-19-deaths-ireland-hiqa-5140490-Jul2020/

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/covid-19-deaths-ireland-hiqa-5140490-Jul2020/

Yes. And as another conspiracy theorist posted:
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1102/1175417-excess-mortality-rate/

However, he was also keen to point out that the explanation could be more complicated than that.

For instance, people's behaviour changed enormously during the Covid-19 lockdown periods which could have affected mortality trends.

There were far fewer people in the workplace while people were working from home. Could that have resulted in fewer workplace accidents?

There was less traffic on the roads. Did that mean fewer road deaths?
People engaged in social distancing. Did that result in fewer deaths from other infectious diseases including the flu and other illnesses?

Against that, fewer people came forward for treatment and screening for serious diseases such as cancer as many hospital services were suspended. Did that, or will that, result in more non-Covid-19 deaths occurring?

We don't know the answer to all these questions yet. It is going to take some time to get all the information and data together, especially when up to three months is allowed for a death to be officially registered in Ireland.

.....


Taking the first seven months of the pandemic together the CSO calculations found that the cumulative number of deaths occurring was 876 more that during the same months of 2019.

If it was compared to average death toll for the same months over the previous two years the excess deaths amounted to 887.

When it is compared to the average of the previous three years the excess death total is 1,192.

The CSO said its new analysis "appears to indicate" that the Department of Health data on coronavirus-related deaths "comprehensively captures" the impact of Covid-19 on mortality in Ireland.

And again, even if we accept your claim here, the difference between is less than a couple of hundred.
The global figure is 1.75 million.
So your claim is a lie.

Also from your own link:

Speaking to RTÉ’s News at One, [Hiqa’s Chief Scientist, Dr Conor Teljeur] said the official figure of 1,709 is likely “an accurate estimate”.

“It may be a slight overestimate, but it is likely to be an accurate estimate. Excess mortality, it has a limitation that doesn’t necessarily fully state the burden of Covid-19 on mortality.

Now, again, provide the accurate global figure.
Stop dodging, man up and just answer the question.

Lex Luthor

RTE, a reliable source of information to be trusted........no thanks

King Mob

Lex Luthor wrote: »

RTE, a reliable source of information to be trusted........no thanks

A conspiracy theorist posted that link to support the conspiracy.

Also, the link itself contains a quote from the scientist who lead the survey you guys love to quote.
Are you claiming that he didn't say that?

Also my point doesn't rely on the source from RTE.

Lazy, ignorant post there Lex. You need to try harder.

kippy

Lex Luthor wrote: »

Tried to a poll here but it was pulled

The majority consensus and what government etc are saying is the mask is to protect others, not the wearer
So the assumption is if you wear it you assume you have it

Why would a healthy person wear a mask?

Why would a healthy person look after themselves?

What a ludicrous position to take Lex.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

King Mob wrote: »

1.7 million people died due to covid.

No they didn't.

Big difference between died "from" covid and died "with" covid.

King Mob

Hunky Monster wrote: »

No they didn't.

Big difference between died "from" covid and died "with" covid.

But they did.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Still not sure why people keep denying this with that silly debunked meme.

If you disagree, supply the accurate number and the source you use for this number.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

King Mob wrote: »

But they did.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Still not sure why people keep denying this with that silly debunked meme.

If you disagree, supply the accurate number and the source you use for this number.

You do know how deaths are reported? This is basic stuff going back to March. Those deaths are deaths WITH covid.

King Mob

Hunky Monster wrote: »

You do know how deaths are reported? This is basic stuff going back to March. Those deaths are deaths WITH covid.

Sorry, you've ignored my question.
Provide the more accurate number thanks.

namloc1980

I see we have the Covid death deniers in the thread now. As usual they can't provide any evidence. Sad.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

King Mob wrote: »

Sorry, you've ignored my question.
Provide the more accurate number thanks.

The numbers are reported inaccurately. That's why. I'm not denying 1.7 million people died WITH covid but there's a huge difference between with and from. To say 1.7 million people died from it is just plain wrong.

namloc1980

Hunky Monster wrote: »

The numbers are reported inaccurately. That's why. I'm not denying 1.7 million people died WITH covid but there's a huge difference between with and from. To say 1.7 million people died from it is just plain wrong.

What are you on about? Can you explain what you think dying with Covid means?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

namloc1980 wrote: »

What are you on about? Can you explain what you think dying with Covid means?

Well when you take out the people who had chronic heart conditions, kidney, liver, cancer, diabetes, respitory diseases you're not left with a big number at all. Over 90% of people who died had one or more of these.

Not to mention a load were already very elderly.

namloc1980

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Well when you take out the people who had chronic heart conditions, kidney, liver, cancer, diabetes, respitory diseases you're not left with a big number at all. Over 90% of people who died had one or more of these.

Not to mention a load were already very elderly.

So basically, they were going to die anyway so fook them - they don't count. That's an extremely callous view of things.

Many of those conditions are not a life limiting conditions especially with modern health-care. But you seem to be happy to write them off. The fact is if they hadn't got Covid they would still be alive. To say otherwise is extremely callous and cold.

King Mob

Hunky Monster wrote: »

The numbers are reported inaccurately.

Ok. Supply the accurate number.
3rd time asking you.

NIMAN

I am far from a CT but I also don't agree with these figures for the deaths.

Each news media seems to have a different term for describing them.

Some of the Irish media say "died of covid" and some say "Died with covid".

The BBC seem to say "deaths that have had a positive covid test within the last 30 days".

So I would agree that the 1.7mill people didn't die of covid. The figures are misleading. And wrong.

But it doesn't fit the narrative.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

namloc1980 wrote: »

So basically, they were going to die anyway so fook them - they don't count. That's an extremely callous view of things.

Many of those conditions are not a life limiting conditions especially with modern health-care. But you seem to be happy to write them off. The fact is of they hadn't got Covid they would still be alive. To say otherwise is extremely callous and cold.

I didn't say that. I'm purely explaining the numbers to you. Not to mention the median age of deaths WITH covid is 83.

Just because a website says 1.7 million deaths FROM covid it doesn't make it necessarily true. Yes they had it, but died from it, c'mon.

King Mob

namloc1980 wrote: »

So basically, they were going to die anyway so fook them - they don't count. That's an extremely callous view of things.

Many of those conditions are not a life limiting conditions especially with modern health-care. But you seem to be happy to write them off. The fact is of they hadn't got Covid they would still be alive. To say otherwise is extremely callous and cold.

As we've been seeing, the elderly and the sick don't really count as "people" to some people.

King Mob

NIMAN wrote: »

I am far from a CT but I also don't agree with these figures for the deaths.

Each news media seems to have a different term for describing them.

Some of the Irish media say "died of covid" and some say "Died with covid".

The BBC seem to say "deaths that have had a positive covid test within the last 30 days".

So I would agree that the 1.7mill people didn't die of covid. The figures are misleading. And wrong.

But it doesn't fit the narrative.

The provide the accurate number.

The Nal

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Well when you take out the people who had chronic heart conditions, kidney, liver, cancer, diabetes, respitory diseases you're not left with a big number at all. Over 90% of people who died had one or more of these.

Not to mention a load were already very elderly.

Yeah when you take away all the people who died because of the virus you're not left with a big number of deaths.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

King Mob wrote: »

Ok. Supply the accurate number.
3rd time asking you.

Third time you've been told the numbers reported are inaccurate. Where exactly do you want me to get numbers from if all deaths are reported as having died WITH covid.

namloc1980

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I didn't say that. I'm purely explaining the numbers to you. Not to mention the median age of deaths WITH covid is 83.

Just because a website says 1.7 million deaths FROM covid it doesn't make it necessarily true. Yes they had it, but died from it, c'mon.

So what did they die from? Someone with diabetes dies after getting Covid. You think that they died due to diabetes. That's a stupid perspective. Utterly stupid.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

namloc1980 wrote: »

So what did they die from? Someone with diabetes dies after getting Covid. You think that they died due to diabetes. That's a stupid perspective. Utterly stupid.

Chronic health conditions. Literally anything can kill you. Moreso true the older you get. Again median age from this virus is 83. EIGHTY THREE. I think that's even higher than the average life expectancy in Ireland.

King Mob

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Third time you've been told the numbers reported are inaccurate.

Yes. It's the third time you've repeated this without supporting it beyond your own personal incredulity and ignorance.

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Where exactly do you want me to get numbers from if all deaths are reported as having died WITH covid.

I dunno. Not really my problem.
You claim the number is wrong, supply the number you believe and the source you used to reach the number.

If you don't know, just say this.
Ignoring the question like you have been is just plain dishonest, but typical for around these parts.

namloc1980

King Mob wrote: »

As we've been seeing, the elderly and the sick don't really count as "people" to some people.

Funny thing is all these conspiracy theorists are always telling us that George Soros and Bill Gates etc are trying to kill people and reduce the population and telling us how evil they are.

The same conspiracy theorists though are happy to write off old people and those with underlying conditions who die due to Covid as mere statistics who don't really count. Disgusting.

namloc1980

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Chronic health conditions. Literally anything can kill you. Moreso true the older you get. Again median age from this virus is 83. EIGHTY THREE. I think that's even higher than the average life expectancy in Ireland.

Would that person with diabetes be dead if they didn't get Covid? Simple yes or no.

Your insistence on writing off old people and those with illnesses is truly depraved. I suggested you re-evaluate your perspective.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

A lot of "so you're saying x" in this thread without me actually saying "x".

Let's leave it there.

King Mob

Hunky Monster wrote: »

A lot of "so you're saying x" in this thread without me actually saying "x".

Let's leave it there.

If you actually answered questions directly instead of ignoring them and running away, then perhaps people will have a better idea of what your position is.

However, you have been ignoring points and now you're running away.

You can't provide a more accurate number.
I wonder why that is.

namloc1980

Hunky Monster wrote: »

A lot of "so you're saying x" in this thread without me actually saying "x".

Let's leave it there.

You are literally saying that old people and sick people didn't really die due to Covid. It would be like saying that an old person who died in a car crash didn't die due to the crash but simply because they were old. Not surprisingly you now run away as it's a pretty indefensible position to hold.

Catmologen

namloc1980 wrote: »

You are literally saying that old people and sick people didn't really die due to Covid. It would be like saying that an old person who died in a car crash didn't die due to the crash but simply because they were old. Not surprisingly you now run away as it's a pretty indefensible position to hold.

In the UK, if they had a positive covid test within 28 days of the car crash then they would have been considered a covid death. The point is that there is a level of ambiguity in these figures that doesn't sit well with people.

NIMAN

King Mob wrote: »

The provide the accurate number.

Unfortunately I can't, I haven't got the data, but it's out there somewhere.

So do you think that every single person in the 1.7mill people were killed by covid?

Lex Luthor

Died from COVID or died with COVID, these numbers pail into insignificance from people who have died because of lockdowns from COVID

GT89

runawaybishop wrote: »

As you have been told in another thread this is wrong. Masks are not to protect the individual. They are to protect people like you.

Did you even read my post?

GT89

namloc1980 wrote: »

So basically, they were going to die anyway so fook them - they don't count. That's an extremely callous view of things.

Many of those conditions are not a life limiting conditions especially with modern health-care. But you seem to be happy to write them off. The fact is if they hadn't got Covid they would still be alive. To say otherwise is extremely callous and cold.

Show me the excess mortality figures to prove it?

Hunky Monster

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Chronic health conditions. Literally anything can kill you. Moreso true the older you get. Again median age from this virus is 83. EIGHTY THREE. I think that's even higher than the average life expectancy in Ireland.

Erm, I've had a chronic health condition since my teens. It generally has a limited impact upon my life. Deciding to exclude chronic conditions is the most dense concept ever. It's perfectly possible to manage many of them. Yep, many of those with them might be more susceptible to something like covid but it does not mean covid is not responsible for death.

aido79

Hunky Monster wrote: »

No they didn't.

Big difference between died "from" covid and died "with" covid.

How many people have died from AIDS? Most actually die from AIDS related conditions because it weakens their immune system but AIDS is still seen as the reason for their deaths in the vast majority of cases.

Lex Luthor

aido79 wrote: »

How many people have died from AIDS? Most actually die from AIDS related conditions because it weakens their immune system but AIDS is still seen as the reason for their deaths in the vast majority of cases.

is the age profile of those deaths from AIDS in the majority over the age of 80?

iQuain

GT89 wrote: »

Show me the excess mortality figures to prove it?

So here is an article telling you about the rise in the overall death number in Ireland by 14.1% after the second quarter. I can only imagine that it continued to increase.

www.thejournal.ie/factfind-factcheck-covid-19-deaths-numbers-5304598-Dec2020/%3famp=1

Here is some more generic data about excess deaths. Not directly related to Ireland but it might help you understand the excess death numbers a bit better.

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

aido79

Lex Luthor wrote: »

is the age profile of those deaths from AIDS in the majority over the age of 80?

No. But what has that got to do with it?