The Vaccine

GT89

King Mob wrote: »

Untrue and more lies on the part of conspiracy theorists.

What is the actual number and please provide a source.

Also, please address my point.
The number of death from covid is far higher than the combined side effects of all vaccines.
Why should we be more concerned with vaccines?

I never said people should be concerned about taking the vaccine. I believe people should be free to make up their mind as to whether they wish to take the vaccine or not. There should be no laws requiring vaccinations in my opinion I think it should be illegal and classed as discrimination for any private business to require customers or employees to vaccinated.

Dohnjoe

GT89 wrote: »

Simply look at the excess mortality vs covid deaths reported.

Died with covid after testing positive. In Ireland the excess mortality between March and August was only 850 to 900 despite there being 1,763 covid deaths.
https://www.thejournal.ie/excess-deaths-covid-19-ireland-5252481-Nov2020/

You claimed that 1.5 mm haven't died globally due to Covid. How many have died and what is your source for that?

GT89

GT89 wrote: »

I never said people should be concerned about taking the vaccine.

Ok. But the topic of the thread is the concerns around the vaccine.
You agree that the concerns presented here by some conspiracy theorists are unfounded. Great.

Now you also claimed that the numbers we've been pointing for covid deaths are wrong.

Please provide the correct numbers and the source you use to arrive at those numbers.

sabat

GT89 wrote: »

I never said people should be concerned about taking the vaccine. I believe people should be free to make up their mind as to whether they wish to take the vaccine or not. There should be no laws requiring vaccinations in my opinion I think it should be illegal and classed as discrimination for any private business to require customers or employees to vaccinated.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Code

feedmindc19

King Mob wrote: »

But that's not how covid deaths are determined.
You are simply making that up and lying.

It's very bizarre.

Do you have a more accurate figure for covid deaths? If so, please post it and the source.

Also, could you address the point I made in the post.
The number of deaths caused by covid are far higher than even all the combined side effects of all vaccines.
Yet you guys are saying that vaccines are more concerning than covid.
How does this make sense?

96% of coronavirus deaths have 2/3 other co morbidities. So when you say the death is far higher... how do you know? You can test positive for covid, then die in a car crash and your death will influence the covid statistics. Families all over are fighting for death certificates to be changed.
Bare in mind when you test positive for covid, it’s probably a false positive,

Because in the words of the guy THAT INVENTED the PCR test “it is NOT A DIAGNOSTIC TEST”

feedmindc19

feedmindc19 wrote: »

96% of coronavirus deaths have 2/3 other co morbidities. So when you say the death is far higher... how do you know? You can test positive for covid, then die in a car crash and your death will influence the covid statistics. Families all over are fighting for death certificates to be changed.
Bare in mind when you test positive for covid, it’s probably a false positive,

None of that is true. It's all more lies and falsehoods on the part of conspiracy theorists.

Please provide an accurate figure and a source for that figure.

jelem

King Mob wrote: »

But that's not how covid deaths are determined.
You are simply making that up and lying.

It's very bizarre.

Do you have a more accurate figure for covid deaths? If so, please post it and the source.

Also, could you address the point I made in the post.
The number of deaths caused by covid are far higher than even all the combined side effects of all vaccines.
Yet you guys are saying that vaccines are more concerning than covid.
How does this make sense?

you have failed to read and learn from multiple sources, hence you cannot provide
a factual reason for trusting the big pharma and capitalist profit governments words.
the vaccine figures throughout the last 100 years show some success but that could be attributed
to the weaker dying off over time whilst vaccine giving minimal protection to those whom
would have survived..
show me how a vaccine removed a disease within say 5 or 10 years and you will fail.
whilst 95% is touted, this is a sales gimmic just like aids etc. which is still there in large
numbers. flu is not defeated as it mutates which actually may be aided by vaccine but you
would not be told. the basic law of atoms and chemistry shows they can be changed but not destroyed.
the military and governments work on producing for the sake of english "bugs". that cannot be denied.
big pharma are involved. soldiers do not just train for nuke warfare but biological and chemical aswell.
psychological is another deadly instance of warfare and aligned with biological "virus" can alter
human behaviour without the humans questioning thoroughly.
i will take the russian 10 dollar one given to half a million chinese and half a million russian soldiers
as whilst secrecy abounds there is so far no news of mass deaths\side effects from vaccine.
along with no big profit for politicians friends big pharma.
Another note to think about is china "large pork consumers" have been under trade attack from usa.
over last 10 years china has suffered numerous varient pig diseases which dont seem to hit the news as global
pandemics.
an open mind could see that covid claimed by some to orrignate from china may be a little concerned about
whom is presenting the truth and whom can profit.

jelem

jelem wrote: »

you have failed to read and learn from multiple sources, hence you cannot provide
a factual reason for trusting the big pharma and capitalist profit governments words.

Sure I can.
The death rate of covid is far higher than the accumulated side effects of all vaccines.

the basic law of atoms and chemistry shows they can be changed but not destroyed.

Lol. Wut?

Please state the "law of atoms and chemistry" you are referring to.

jelem

King Mob wrote: »

Sure I can.
The death rate of covid is far higher than the accumulated side effects of all vaccines.


Lol. Wut?

Please state the "law of atoms and chemistry" you are referring to.

read and learn, dont as most rely on government to
validate either side of an issue.
go on tease, so what happen to atoms at absolute zero and what is that in kelvin.

jelem

King Mob wrote: »

Sure I can.
The death rate of covid is far higher than the accumulated side effects of all vaccines.


Lol. Wut?

Please state the "law of atoms and chemistry" you are referring to.

cansay that for flu tetanus malaria (still no cure) etc.

jelem

jelem wrote: »

read and learn, dont as most rely on government to
validate either side of an issue.

Ok. Please supply the actual death rates for coivd and all vaccines and provide a source for these figures.

jelem wrote: »

go on tease, so what happen to atoms at absolute zero and what is that in kelvin.

lol.
I've asked you to quote the "law of atoms and chemistry" you are referring to.
I don't think you can.

And absolute zero is zero kelvin.
What has this to do with anything?

feedmindc19

jelem wrote: »

cansay that for flu tetanus malaria (still no cure) etc.

And TB , which is still at large.

Jelem I wouldn't waste my time responding to him the information is all there in the media ,he is either too lazy or closed minded . or possibly on a wind up, he just likes to keep calling people CT's from what I can see.

As for vaccines they are rushed and no amount of back tracking and opologies from this guy will convince me otherwise.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55177948

feedmindc19

feedmindc19 wrote: »

Jelem I wouldn't waste my time responding to him the information is all there in the media ,he is either too lazy or closed minded . or possibly on a wind up, he just likes to keep calling people CT's from what I can see.

So then, no you cannot provide a more accurate figure for covid deaths.
You guys are running away from this point.
Great.

My point stands then completely unaddressed.

The death rate for covid is far higher than the rate of any side effects for vaccines.
It is higher by 4 orders of magnitude.

Yet you guys seem to be more concerned with the vaccine.

This is a contradiction.

Why are you concerned by something that is far far far less likely to harm you than covid?

jelem

already stated " change but not destroy" and even at zero they can still be changed as humans have only just reached knowledge of atoms at zero
which is not 100% correct hence the likes of cern etc.
just hate flamers whom try act like experts but fail to realise "only expert until new fact or construct"
just as bad as those whom take to comment on grammer of posts.
as stated read from many sources and disagree if wish and comment with what you have learnt.

jelem

jelem wrote: »

already stated " change but not destroy" and even at zero they can still be changed as humans have only just reached knowledge of atoms at zero
which is not 100% correct hence the likes of cern etc.

None of this makes any sense.
I don't think you understand what you're talking about.
You have not quoted any law or explained what it has to do with the topic at hand.
I'm not sure you know what a virus is..

jelem wrote: »

just hate flamers whom try act like experts but fail to realise "only expert until new fact or construct"
just as bad as those whom take to comment on grammer of posts.
as stated read from many sources and disagree if wish and comment with what you have learnt.

Ok. Please show one of your sources.
Please provide the true death rate for the virus and provide the source you use to confirm this is true.
Then also provide the same for vaccines.
Then please show that the danger from vaccines is greater.

GT89

GT89 wrote: »

I never said people should be concerned about taking the vaccine. I believe people should be free to make up their mind as to whether they wish to take the vaccine or not. There should be no laws requiring vaccinations in my opinion I think it should be illegal and classed as discrimination for any private business to require customers or employees to vaccinated.

Plenty of creches for example won't take children unless their vaccines are up to date. Cause it's a public health risk...

sabat wrote: »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Code

The Nuremberg Code related to forced experimentation. A vaccine is not experimentation. It's tested and approved. But sure I'll just point you towards experts on medical ethics.

https://medicalethicshealthpolicy.med.upenn.edu/in-the-news/nuremberg-code-addresses-experimentation-not-vaccines

GT89

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You claimed that 1.5 mm haven't died globally due to Covid. How many have died and what is your source for that?

I don't know. The only thing I know is that a large percentage of the people who died with covid 19 would have died anyway.

GT89

GT89 wrote: »

I don't know. The only thing I know is that a large percentage of the people who died with covid 19 would have died anyway.

Would have died anyway is pretty vague. Those individuals may have lived for another year or another 5 years. What exactly do you deem as an acceptable amount of time taken from lives? You're claiming 1.5 million didn't die so it falls on you to prove that.

On top of that a large amount of people who had covid and survived ended up with long term effects or long recoveries. So many of those who survive end up placing health infrastructure under greater strain in the long term. So it would be a pretty reasonable to eradicate it via vaccines.

Dohnjoe

GT89 wrote: »

I don't know.

Indeed. That's the point being made here, people substituting vague personal opinions in place of proper figures and estimates.

If people don't want to take Covid vaccines, fine, but there's no basis to scare-monger about them or any modern vaccines, which are overwhelmingly safe, and save millions from injury and death.

GT89

GT89 wrote: »

I don't know. The only thing I know is that a large percentage of the people who died with covid 19 would have died anyway.

What percentage would this be and how did you reach that number?

Regardless unless you're claiming that 99.99998% of the reported covid deaths are fake or mistaken, the point would still stand.
The death rate of covid is still far higher that the rate of injury from vaccines.

GT89

King Mob wrote: »

What percentage would this be and how did you reach that number?

Regardless unless you're claiming that 99.99998% of the reported covid deaths are fake or mistaken, the point would still stand.
The death rate of covid is still far higher that the rate of injury from vaccines.

Just look at the excess mortality statistics. The number of excess deaths vs the amount of covid deaths if they are the same (which they are not and this has been proven) then that would be the amount of extra deaths due to covid meaning covid directly then x amount of covid deaths. But since they are not the same that means most people only died after testing positive and likely would have died anyway otherwise there would be 2k excess deaths.

Why are you trying to argue with me about aomething I did not say? I never said the death rate of vaccine injuries was higher than the death of covid. The only concern I have about the covid vaccine is the possibility for it to be mandatory in certain places which I am deeply against as I believe in bodily autonomy.

I am not anti vax, I am anti mandatory vax. I couldn't care less about the covid vaccine, I do not want to take it and that's my choice. If other want to take it then I don't really care as ling as they don't tell me to get it.

ohnonotgmail

GT89 wrote: »

Just look at the excess mortality statistics. The number of excess deaths vs the amount of covid deaths if they are the same (which they are not and this has been proven) then that would be the amount of extra deaths due to covid meaning covid directly x amount of deaths. But since they are not the same that means most people only died after testing positive and likely would have died anyway otherwise there would be 2k excess deaths.

can you try that again? It makes no sense

GT89

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

can you try that again? It makes no sense

The covid death count is being exaggerated as everyone who dies after testing positive is counted as a covid death.

ohnonotgmail

GT89 wrote: »

The covid death count is being exaggerated as everyone who dies after testing positive is counted as a covid death.

are they? according to who?

GT89

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

are they? according to who?

The amount of excess deaths vs the amount of covid deaths

ohnonotgmail

GT89 wrote: »

The amount of excess deaths vs the amount of covid deaths

that isn't what i asked. you said that everyone who dies after testing positive is counted as a covid death. What is your basis for saying that?

GT89

GT89 wrote: »

Just look at the excess mortality statistics. The number of excess deaths vs the amount of covid deaths if they are the same (which they are not and this has been proven) then that would be the amount of extra deaths due to covid meaning covid directly then x amount of covid deaths. But since they are not the same that means most people only died after testing positive and likely would have died anyway otherwise there would be 2k excess deaths.

But as we've explained to you, this isn't true.
It's a straight up lie concocted by conspiracy theorists.

You haven't actually answered the question though.
What percentage of covid deaths do you believe is false?
10%? 50%? 100%?

And how did you determine this number?

Atlantic Dawn

I'd like to see 6 months of 99% plus of grand results before I'd put that potential poison in to my arm.

Ted_YNWA

GT89 wrote: »

The covid death count is being exaggerated as everyone who dies after testing positive is counted as a covid death.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that isn't what i asked. you said that everyone who dies after testing positive is counted as a covid death. What is your basis for saying that?

The UK count anyone who has tested positive in previous 28 days

Number of deaths of people who had had a positive test result for COVID-19 and died within 28 days of the first positive test.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths

Ted_YNWA

Ted_YNWA wrote: »

The UK count anyone who has tested positive in previous 28 days

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths

Actually they don't, according to that website they count those deaths separately from the deaths that occur and specific mention Covid as a cause of death.

Weekly deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate by date registered
Number of deaths of people whose death certificate mentioned COVID-19 as one of the causes. The data are published weekly by the ONS, NRS and NISRA and there is a lag in reporting of at least 11 days because the data are based on death registrations

Deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate by area
Total number of deaths since the start of the pandemic of people whose death certificate mentioned COVID-19 as one of the causes. The data are published weekly by the ONS, NRS and NISRA and there is a lag in reporting of at least 11 days because the data are based on death registrations. Only data available for the latest reported date are shown.

It states:

Deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate
Weekly
3,038
Total
69,752

While it states

Deaths within 28 days of positive test
Daily
397
Total
61,014

So I don't see how someone could use this to say that they are using this to inflate the numbers.

Dohnjoe

I'm struggling to see the conspiracy in this one.

jelem

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I'm struggling to see the conspiracy in this one.

politicians are fudging everything==
even got fridges to support the high price pharma vaccine that had not
even been submitted to UN for registration whilst corruptly seeking usa and eu
emergency approval..
money money money the line went.
this is the fact when the eu and governments after all the tax breaks to pharma for years
should ensure it is free to citizens and the audited leanest cost price paid for a registered
vaccine not a Pushed profit grab.
wait for 5 years and se a thalidomide scenario and the pathetic whinnings of politicians as excuses
to hide their involvement in robbing the citizens.
A UN registered vaccine at low cost with data submitted like the russian 10 dollar vaccine
should be the highest priority for the government and NOT the profit of favoured pharma.

jelem

jelem wrote: »

politicians are fudging everything==

Ok.
How much are they fudging the figures around covid and how do you know your figures are accurate?

Timberrrrrrrr

jelem wrote: »

politicians are fudging everything==
even got fridges to support the high price pharma vaccine that had not
even been submitted to UN for registration whilst corruptly seeking usa and eu
emergency approval..
money money money the line went.
this is the fact when the eu and governments after all the tax breaks to pharma for years
should ensure it is free to citizens and the audited leanest cost price paid for a registered
vaccine not a Pushed profit grab.
wait for 5 years and se a thalidomide scenario and the pathetic whinnings of politicians as excuses
to hide their involvement in robbing the citizens.
A UN registered vaccine at low cost with data submitted like the russian 10 dollar vaccine
should be the highest priority for the government and NOT the profit of favoured pharma.

The pharma companies have said the vaccine will be not for profit as long as the pandemic is ongoing.

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

The pharma companies have said the vaccine will be not for profit as long as the pandemic is ongoing.

Also certain companies will be selling to developing countries below cost iirc. They balance it out by selling for a bit more in developed world. There also looks like there will significant new scientific developments after the work done this year. It's truly an example of what proper funding combined with creative thinking can achieve.

Wantedbymany

harrylittle wrote: »

Every time on turn on the TV or Radio its all the vaccine ...vaccine... vaccine... the answer to all our problems.

Its like all life's enjoyments are withheld until we take the vaccine.

Already Ticket master are planning to introduce vaccine passes to go to concerts be sure other companies and industries will quickly follow their example ....

Quote "Ticketmaster has been developing a post-pandemic safety plan to get customers back to concerts. Billboard reported that includes using smart phones to verify its ticket-buyers have received a vaccine or tested negative for COVID-19 recently.within a 24- or 72-hour window."

This is a absolute disgrace how private company's can do the dirty work of big pharma and crocked governments , look at the back lash Boeing got for releasing a video saying you cannot fly unless you get this placebo of a vaccine , the flu vaccine got released 91 years ago it was a huge pandemic it was ment to eradicate the flu an make everyone immune did that work or ,,,,,,

jelem

King Mob wrote: »

Ok.
How much are they fudging the figures around covid and how do you know your figures are accurate?

body count is not what is needed and used or abused by politicians.
we can see now from many countries that it is about 3% test positive.
like flu etc. it can be a killer for some.
a vaccine needed same as cancer treatment and many other killers.
just remember the abuse of politicians and other groups pushing advertising
that smoking kills and lung cancer.
The factual data shows cancers wholefully attributed to smoking is a low percentage
to other forms of cancers.
just get cheap verified vaccine for covid and stop the abuse of scare and paying large money to pharma etc. for profit.
(maybe lucky but in 60s and first smoke aged about 7) despise the fake restrictions and tax on cigerettes.

jelem

jelem wrote: »

body count is not what is needed and used or abused by politicians.
we can see now from many countries that it is about 3% test positive.
like flu etc. it can be a killer for some.
a vaccine needed same as cancer treatment and many other killers.
just remember the abuse of politicians and other groups pushing advertising
that smoking kills and lung cancer.
The factual data shows cancers wholefully attributed to smoking is a low percentage
to other forms of cancers.
just get cheap verified vaccine for covid and stop the abuse of scare and paying large money to pharma etc. for profit.
(maybe lucky but in 60s and first smoke aged about 7) despise the fake restrictions and tax on cigerettes.

Wait, are you claiming smoking being bad for your health is a conspiracy?

jelem

jelem wrote: »

body count is not what is needed and used or abused by politicians.
.

You're not making much sense and you're not being very coherent.

Please try again, please explain what you believe is being "fudged".

Wantedbymany

King Mob wrote: »

Well yea. There this global pandemic going on for which a vaccine could help control it and possibly end it.
Why wouldn't that be all over the news?

What's the conspiracy here?

Where is the pandemic ??I would love to know ????look across the world what is happening, but you will not see it on mainstream media because it's the truth Berlin 2million on the streets protesting the USA hundreds of thousands England's under siege down in London for weeks on end Netherlands government is being sued by the (wda) world doctors association, for crimes against humanity which is about the forced locked downs and putting people out of business for a virus that is nowhere near what the flu or cancer is or any other illness for that fact, look up a guy called Charles lieber arrested in the USA trying to travel to China with a brief case full of Sars him and 2 Chinese special agents might I say back in December of 2019. Read the court documents on it COVID IS NOT NATURAL

Harika

Wantedbymany wrote: »

Where is the pandemic ??I would love to know ????look across the world what is happening, but you will not see it on mainstream media because it's the truth Berlin 2million on the streets

Show evidence of that please.

runawaybishop

GT89 wrote: »

The amount of excess deaths vs the amount of covid deaths

Given that a bunch of people are wearing masks and staying at home a hell of a lot more you would expect the death rate to be lower anyway.

Wantedbymany

King Mob wrote: »

Ok. That's a very specific claim.

What evidence do you have that the vaccine was "there for years"?
Do you also subscribe to the silly idea the virus was created?

What id the overall plan for this "Plandemic"?

Charles lieber paid to manufacture your so called virus to disperse protesters in China back when the people rebelled against the new government that was forced upon them by the military coup government that got in to place

Wantedbymany

Wantedbymany wrote: »

Where is the pandemic ?

It's called the Covid pandemic.

Wantedbymany wrote: »

COVID IS NOT NATURAL

Yes it is.
Conspiracy theorists like yourself keep claiming this, but you've offered nothing to support this bizarre and untrue claim.

Wantedbymany wrote: »

Charles lieber paid to manufacture your so called virus to disperse protesters in China back when the people rebelled against the new government that was forced upon them by the military coup government that got in to place

And none of this is true either.

Why do you have to lie and just make things up to support a conspiracy theory?

Dohnjoe

Wantedbymany wrote: »

Charles lieber paid to manufacture your so called virus to disperse protesters in China back when the people rebelled against the new government that was forced upon them by the military coup government that got in to place

Okay, that's quite the extraordinary claim, and your evidence for this? (with proper sources)

Wantedbymany

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

The pharma companies have said the vaccine will be not for profit as long as the pandemic is ongoing.

How to you mean not for profit ?the us government is paying 2billon for the FIRST batch they get as well as many other country's around this green rock we live on IT WILL BE FREE FOR PEOPLE TO GET BUT INDIRECTLY PAYED FOR BY THE PEOPLE

jackboy

King Mob wrote: »

Yes it is.
Conspiracy theorists like yourself keep claiming this, but you've offered nothing to support this bizarre and untrue claim.

The real question is, was the virus outbreak directly from nature or was the virus released from a lab by accident?

A virus released from a lab could be natural with no genetic modification. A lab could be doing all sorts of experiments on a natural virus.

The fact that the wet market of origin is so close to a virus research lab cannot be ignored.

jackboy

jackboy wrote: »

The real question is, was the virus outbreak directly from nature or was the virus released from a lab by accident?
.

Not really. This is only a question to conspiracy theorists in the same way "is the earth flat" is a question.

The virus is natural. There's been no evidence to the contrary.

The person I was quoting seems to be of the opinion the virus is entirely artificial.
We all know that this is completely false.

The real question I've been asking is "What's the real death rate and how is this number verified."
Yet no conspiracy theorist seems to want to answer this question.

Timberrrrrrrr

Wantedbymany wrote: »

How to you mean not for profit ?the us government is paying 2billon for the FIRST batch they get as well as many other country's around this green rock we live on IT WILL BE FREE FOR PEOPLE TO GET BUT INDIRECTLY PAYED FOR BY THE PEOPLE

Cost of vaccine to produce let's say €20, price charged by pharma company €20 = not for profit

Cost of vaccine to produce €20, price charged by pharma company €120 = for profit

Its not rocket science

jackboy

King Mob wrote: »

Not really. This is only a question to conspiracy theorists in the same way "is the earth flat" is a question.

The virus is natural. There's been no evidence to the contrary.

The person I was quoting seems to be of the opinion the virus is entirely artificial.
We all know that this is completely false.

The real question I've been asking is "What's the real death rate and how is this number verified."
Yet no conspiracy theorist seems to want to answer this question.

The virus could be completely natural and have been released from a lab. The source of the virus has not been conclusively proven.