The Leinster Championship is dead.

Enquiring

Let's look at this year's championship as an example. Tipperary winning the Munster title and Cavan winning the Ulster title. Mayo have won a good few Connaught titles in recent years but Connaught is a pretty tight province, a few teams have a chance of winning it every year. We could be looking at a great championship, the possibility of Tipperary and Cavan reaching an All Ireland final. Since the 1990's, I think it's 22 counties that have won a provincial title. Other counties like Fermanagh, Louth, Limerick, Clare have either come close or performed really well in championship football. Football is very competitive and open, there are so many counties operating at a very good level and they have opportunities to win things. That's in Munster, Connaught and Ulster. The Leinster championship and the All Ireland championship is a closed book. The reason for that is Dublin. Without Dublin, we would have a fantastic championship. The Leinster championship would be wide open, as would the All Ireland.

From the facts above, the solution is clear. We must split Dublin. We can't allow a county to take millions of euros to professionalise their system and then allow them to remain intact while amalgamating other counties who've competed fairly. It's just not on. The populations of Dublin's 4 new counties are higher than the majority of counties in Ireland. They have the resources capable of competing. It would also bring in a few new derbies which would be exciting for the supporters of those counties. Of course, Leinster would then be too big, we would need to restructure things. This could lead to an open draw system or another one, we can get to that at a later date.

The most important thing is to split Dublin, it's the only hope of saving Gaelic football and hurling in the long term. Obviously, this will be met with opposition from Dublin supporters who are happy to go along with the status quo of receiving millions and winning loads of All Ireland's. The benefits of this will need to be shown. More players will have the possibility of playing inter county football in Dublin. The fight against other sports can be upgraded as there will be 4 counties trying to improve their lot. With a new system in place and a huge number of teams competing at the top level, including 4 new counties, it will be a really exciting championship and will bring life back into Gaelic Football.

The details of all this would have to be looked into and of course, this restructure would also include the restructuring of finances where every county is given a fair allocation and a fair opportunity to compete. It will be a tough process and we'll have some bumps along the way but it's one that we must push for. It's the only way forward and it's exhillerating.

Dickie10

Enquiring wrote: »

Let's look at this year's championship as an example. Tipperary winning the Munster title and Cavan winning the Ulster title. Mayo have won a good few Connaught titles in recent years but Connaught is a pretty tight province, a few teams have a chance of winning it every year. We could be looking at a great championship, the possibility of Tipperary and Cavan reaching an All Ireland final. Since the 1990's, I think it's 22 counties that have won a provincial title. Other counties like Fermanagh, Louth, Limerick, Clare have either come close or performed really well in championship football. Football is very competitive and open, there are so many counties operating at a very good level and they have opportunities to win things. That's in Munster, Connaught and Ulster. The Leinster championship and the All Ireland championship is a closed book. The reason for that is Dublin. Without Dublin, we would have a fantastic championship. The Leinster championship would be wide open, as would the All Ireland.

From the facts above, the solution is clear. We must split Dublin. We can't allow a county to take millions of euros to professionalise their system and then allow them to remain intact while amalgamating other counties who've competed fairly. It's just not on. The populations of Dublin's 4 new counties are higher than the majority of counties in Ireland. They have the resources capable of competing. It would also bring in a few new derbies which would be exciting for the supporters of those counties. Of course, Leinster would then be too big, we would need to restructure things. This could lead to an open draw system or another one, we can get to that at a later date.

The most important thing is to split Dublin, it's the only hope of saving Gaelic football and hurling in the long term. Obviously, this will be met with opposition from Dublin supporters who are happy to go along with the status quo of receiving millions and winning loads of All Ireland's. The benefits of this will need to be shown. More players will have the possibility of playing inter county football in Dublin. The fight against other sports can be upgraded as there will be 4 counties trying to improve their lot. With a new system in place and a huge number of teams competing at the top level, including 4 new counties, it will be a really exciting championship and will bring life back into Gaelic Football.

The details of all this would have to be looked into and of course, this restructure would also include the restructuring of finances where every county is given a fair allocation and a fair opportunity to compete. It will be a tough process and we'll have some bumps along the way but it's one that we must push for. It's the only way forward and it's exhillerating.

I think the dogs on the street know that dublin needs to be split up its just a matter of when and how.Like i have said before morketing dept will look after a lot of these new teams and counties.

Fann Linn

Dickie10 wrote: »

I think the dogs on the street know that dublin needs to be split up its just a matter of when and how.Like i have said before morketing dept will look after a lot of these new teams and counties.

Been hearing that for a fair few number of years now. Normally just prior to Dublin winning an All Ireland.

Enquiring

Dickie10 wrote: »

I think the dogs on the street know that dublin needs to be split up its just a matter of when and how.Like i have said before morketing dept will look after a lot of these new teams and counties.

Yes, for sure. There will be a major by into these teams. Dublin's population will be 1.8 million in 10 years, the only choice is to split Dublin. There's no way around it.

Dickie10

well either that or scrap inter county and go semi pro and be done with it and use the club system and transfers etc , it would probabaly fairest.

Enquiring

Dickie10 wrote: »

well either that or scrap inter county and go semi pro and be done with it and use the club system and transfers etc , it would probabaly fairest.

The inter county competitions have been around for a long time now and giving up on that is something nobody wants. Especially when there's such an easy fix. Yes, there will be objections but the results of the change will have huge benefits for all and the questions over the future of Gaelic Football will be put on the back burner.
This can be turned around. A fair and equitable system is there for us if we fight for it. We're at a vital crossroads in all this. The steps we take in the next few years are of huge importance.

Dickie10

i think one quite easy and palatable form of protest for Leinster teams at least would be not fulfilling fixtures v dublin in the leinster championship. Let dublin go in to croke park with fans on hill 16 , ref throws in the ball and no team to play against, that would bring things to a head fairly quick, it has a good plus for Leinster teams too. they wouldnt have to go through the dublin game

dunnerc

Dickie10 wrote: »

i think one quite easy and palatable form of protest for Leinster teams at least would be not fulfilling fixtures v dublin in the leinster championship. Let dublin go in to croke park with fans on hill 16 , ref throws in the ball and no team to play against, that would bring things to a head fairly quick, it has a good plus for Leinster teams too. they wouldnt have to go through the dublin game

Jesus f--king wept :mad:

dunnerc

Dickie10 wrote: »

well either that or scrap inter county and go semi pro and be done with it and use the club system and transfers etc , it would probabaly fairest.

Ok better than splitting Dublin , which is 100% unacceptable:rolleyes:

eagle eye

Well Dublin really is the equivalent of China at table tennis in comparison to the other counties.

largepants

ArielAtom wrote: »

What’s really amusing on here is the little cohort of thankers😂 I do wonder how many of them are actually members of the association.

And why dont you ask them instead of assuming they're not.

Shows a level of arrogance.

ArielAtom

largepants wrote: »

And why dont you ask them instead of assuming they're not.

Shows a level of arrogance.

I have asked in the past not received replies. How you get arrogance out my statement I don’t know.

largepants

ArielAtom wrote: »

I have asked in the past not received replies. How you get arrogance out my statement I don’t know.

Have you asked many on Hill 16 if they are members?

ArielAtom

largepants wrote: »

Have you asked many on Hill 16 if they are members?

I don’t frequent that site.

dunnerc

eagle eye wrote: »

Well Dublin really is the equivalent of China at table tennis in comparison to the other counties.

Kerry 81 Munster titles - 37 All Ireland titles
Dublin 58 Leinster titles - 29 All Ireland titles

Eh i dont think so mate :rolleyes:

gormdubhgorm

gaffer91 wrote: »

There are other ideas but you seem to wilfully ignore them. The same way you repeatedly lie and claim people are saying Dublin's success is only down to money. Nobody says that.

Regardless, a split of Dublin is a great idea, you just don't like it so instead run around coming up with laughable alternatives

Go on I am all ears? (willing to listen to someone who was only in their cot when Dublin played Meath in the four in a row)
Plus you would not have been old enough to remember Meath in 99 either.

I can understand your frustration, it must be painful. You missed a golden era of Meath football with a great manager, and only have a 'stolen' Leinster final in 2010 to crow about, as the most recent victory.

You seem to imply that Dublin's success is down to money, as your sole solution seems to be splitting Dublin in two. Then you had a brainwave of splitting Dublin in four. Some might even call it inspired.

What are the rest of your solutions spilt Dublin in 8 or in 16? Because I have yet to hear any solution from you other than spitting Dublin in some shape or form.

However, you have not countenanced who would finance such a decision. Who would pay for the stadiums that would have to be built? And how would the Leinster council make up for the loss of funds which the 'Dublin brand' generate for them. Those funds benefit all the other counties in Leinster.

So while you may deride my suggestions as laughable, as is your prerogative. At least I am am thinking of many viable alternatives.

Ranging from the simple, to the more complex.

Meath and Kildare making more use of the parentage rule.

Or making bringing in a 'Dublin player quota' to help the likes of Meath and Kildare and strengthen their team. It worked in Irish basketball where American imports were on a quota in each team. Colm o'Rourke has mentioned something similar in the past a proud Meathman.

You mention the spilt as if it would be easy to do. I would argue that it is much easier to amalgamate rather than demerge an entity in the GAA's case this has been proven at club level.

Have you asked yourself in a business sense is a demerger or merger better of xyz county and why?

https://www.accountancyage.com/2018/04/19/merger-vs-de-merger-whats-better-business/

Because that is what GAA counties are corporate entities who wish to make a profit to reinvest to make them stronger in the future.

I would argue there should be both mergers and demergers in the GAA if you are going to go that route.

Or should it not be a merger but an amalgamation?

Note:

An amalgamation is a combination of two or more companies into a new entity. Amalgamation is distinct from a merger because neither company involved survives as a legal entity.



For the record I am not against a spilt. However, I believe that any spilt should be done in conjunction with amalgamations. In my opinion.

Amalgamations are common at club level in GAA and they work well.
Why not at county level? It would put Kildare and Meath in a stronger position.

Just like Dub like me might have to accept a split, others may have to accept an amalgamation. However, both are conceived with same end goal. Namely, to make Leinster counties more competitive. And firstly help counties who struggle in div1 like Meath and Kildare to get closer to that National standard.

gormdubhgorm

dunnerc wrote: »

Kerry 81 Munster titles - 37 All Ireland titles
Dublin 58 Leinster titles - 29 All Ireland titles

Eh i dont think so mate :rolleyes:

Plus many of Dublin's wins in the early days were done with teams of culchies.
It was only really around 1958 things changed and the Dublin team had Dublin players.

tobefrank321

dunnerc wrote: »

Kerry 81 Munster titles - 37 All Ireland titles
Dublin 58 Leinster titles - 29 All Ireland titles

Eh i dont think so mate :rolleyes:

Munster is a hurling province first and foremost. The only county where football has primary focus is Kerry.

gormdubhgorm

Here is an article that might interest some of you.

https://punditarena.com/gaa/mcorry/colm-orourke-division-dublin/


Colm O'Rourke:

(2019 after Dublin became the first team in history to do the five in a row - while the rest of the country looked on in pure admiration and awe )

“People talk about funding, I don’t think Dublin are over-funded, in fact, I think they’re under-funded because the funding goes to the development of clubs and that’s the most important thing of all. All of these coaching officers are doing a fantastic job in encouraging young people in primary schools to play Gaelic Games and for me, it’s a phenomenal success and it’s something that should be continued."

“The only other way, if they’re not going to divide Dublin, is there has to be some way where a lot of the very good club footballers in Dublin are either encouraged to go and play with other counties which for some reason hasn’t happened with parental rules or some type of transfer system.”

Did you smash it

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Here is an article that might interest some of you.

https://punditarena.com/gaa/mcorry/colm-orourke-division-dublin/


Colm O'Rourke:

(2019 after Dublin became the first team in history to do the five in a row - while the rest of the country looked on in pure admiration and awe )

“People talk about funding, I don’t think Dublin are over-funded, in fact, I think they’re under-funded because the funding goes to the development of clubs and that’s the most important thing of all. All of these coaching officers are doing a fantastic job in encouraging young people in primary schools to play Gaelic Games and for me, it’s a phenomenal success and it’s something that should be continued."

“The only other way, if they’re not going to divide Dublin, is there has to be some way where a lot of the very good club footballers in Dublin are either encouraged to go and play with other counties which for some reason hasn’t happened with parental rules or some type of transfer system.”

Colm O’rourke is fervently pro split. He’s talked and written about that far more than Dublin rejects joining other counties. So he’s a bit of a strange example to use.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

dunnerc wrote: »

Kerry 81 Munster titles - 37 All Ireland titles
Dublin 58 Leinster titles - 29 All Ireland titles

Eh i dont think so mate :rolleyes:

He's pretty clearly talking about the situation right now. Kerry's titles in the 30s or 80s aren't relevant.

gormdubhgorm

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Munster is a hurling province first and foremost. The only county where football has primary focus is Kerry.

Exactly, which makes a joke of the whole GAA provincial system. The most successful county in the history of Gaelic football in a hurling province.

If that is not an unfair advantage to Kerry and disadvantage to others I don't know what is? An extremely easy run to the AI SF's.

I would argue that the rest of Leinster (barring Dublin) is fast coming close to the levels Munster barring Kerry. Or maybe Munster has overtaken Leinster?


Leinster Teams league standings 2020

Dublin div1

Meath[ div 1 relegated 1 draw (13 years previous in div 2)

Kildare div 2

Westmeath div 2

Laois div 2

Offaly div 3

Longford div 3

Louth div 3 relegated (no points)

Wicklow div 4 promoted won

Wexford div 4

Carlow div 4

2020 two div 1 teams. three div 2 teams, three div 3 teams, three div 4 teams

2021 One div 1 team, four div 2 teams, four div 3 teams, two div 4 teams

--
--

Munster teams league standings 2020

Kerry div 1 winners

Clare div 2

Cork div 3 promoted won

Tipperary div 3

Limerick div 4

Waterford div 4

2020 One div 1 team, one div 2 team, two div 3 teams, two div 4 teams

2021 One div 1 team, two div 2 teams, one div 3 team, two div 4 teams



--
--

Very little between the provinces which says more about Leinster's overall decline, than it does about Dublin's improvement in my view.

gormdubhgorm

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

He's pretty clearly talking about the situation right now. Kerry's titles in the 30s or 80s aren't relevant.

Kerry were going for 8 in a row Munster's (until covid interrupted Munster) giving Cork Mark Keane form Australia and giving Tipp O'Riordan from Australia

All pivotal to the results, which skewed the province this year.

Also Kerry won 15 Munsters out of the last 20 that is not in the 1930's or 1980's.

Dominant by any language.

gormdubhgorm

Did you smash it wrote: »

Colm O’rourke is fervently pro split. He’s talked and written about that far more than Dublin rejects joining other counties. So he’s a bit of a strange example to use.

I suggest you take time to actually read what I posted and Colm O'Rourke said:


“The only other way, if they’re not going to divide Dublin, is there has to be some way where a lot of the very good club footballers in Dublin are either encouraged to go and play with other counties which for some reason hasn’t happened with parental rules or some type of transfer system.”

I know it is tempting to dismiss a post out of hand when you do not like the sound of it. I used to be the same when Kerry pundits used to say Dublin had few/no 'footballers' who could play the skills of the game.

Plus many on this thread seemed oblivious to the parentage rule in the GAA. An easy solution. You have to ask why Kildare and Meath (or others in Leinster) have not pursued it aggressively.

I also suggested a Dublin quota system for Leinster teams as a transfer type idea similar to O'Rourke except with more detail and a cut off at 5. Because I feel more than five Dublin players in another county team and it could begin to lose it's identity and hamper the development of local players. Which would be counterproductive.

Did you smash it

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I suggest you take time to actually read what I posted and Colm O'Rourke said:


“The only other way, if they’re not going to divide Dublin, is there has to be some way where a lot of the very good club footballers in Dublin are either encouraged to go and play with other counties which for some reason hasn’t happened with parental rules or some type of transfer system.”

I know it is tempting to dismiss a post out of hand when you do not like the sound of it. I used to be the same when Kerry pundits used to say Dublin had few/no 'footballers' who could play the skills of the game.

Plus many on this thread seemed oblivious to the parentage rule in the GAA. An easy solution. You have to ask why Kildare and Meath (or others in Leinster) have not pursued it aggressively.

I also suggested a Dublin quota system for Leinster teams as a transfer type idea similar to O'Rourke except with more detail and a cut off at 5. Because I feel more than five Dublin players in another county team and it could begin to lose it's identity and hamper the development of local players. Which would be counterproductive.

Not sure what you’re waffling on about. It’s just seems to be another bad idea of which I notice you put forward many but this time with added waffle.

Just strange to cite Colm O’Rourke’s opinions in this conversation when he wants Dublins split into three.

eagle eye

gormdubhgorm wrote:

Also Kerry won 15 Munsters out of the last 20 that is not in the 1930's or 1980's.

It's not hard in what is normally a two horse race. Have the other counties, not including Cork, even 20 between them.
And Dublin did a far more difficult task and won 11 Leinster titles in a row and covid didn't affect them. They've won six All-Ireland titles in a row and are odds on to make it seven.

gormdubhgorm

Did you smash it wrote: »

Dublin fans who are always talking down their team and talking up the opposition.

It’s odd. I’ve never seen fans of a champion team behave like that. It’s so joyless.

Not true, I have already expressed how great this generation of Dublin players are.
Plus, I have already expressed the greatness of the managers which contributed to Dublin's success.

You are attempting to twist a point I made that Dublin were very leggy in 2019. Five years non-stop. Extremely successful in league and championship.

It would wear anyone out. Plus Ballymun as still the heartbeart of Dublin and that team has clearly suffered as a consequence.

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/ballymuns-struggles-show-county-players-doesnt-always-translate-club-success-206583#:~:text=There%20were%20six%20Ballymun%20Kickhams,the%20last%20number%20of%20years.

AI club win for Ballymun in 2013 and none since this year when Covid 19 gave leg weary mun a rest.

Ballymun did not win a Dublin club championship between 2013 and 2020. A lot of times they were caught out by Vinnies who had only a few players who played for Dublin so had much less mileage in the legs. Despite the fact that many of the Vinnies team were older than Balymun they wore them down.

There are six Dublin county players who were integral to Dublin's success over this era.

But they ended up 'spent' by the time they got back to their club.

You need only look at this club game between Ballymun and Na Fianna on Sept 27 just two weeks after the AI final.

An AI you no doubt celebrated Dublin winning 5 in a row as neutral GAA man!

Many Dubs believe (including me) that Dublin fell over the line last year against Kerry and really should have lost (the first day). Man down against Kerry for a long period, and the game nearly up.

Only for Jim's Genius and Kerry's inexperience Dublin had it lost.

Kerryman, Donaghy does excellent analysis of it here

Plus, many Dubs including me thought Kerry/Donegal would catch Dublin this year pre-covid19. As you could see sloppiness starting to appear where it was not, and the team looked tired.

But, covid had other ideas and made this Championship as easy as is possible for Dublin. Long rest, fewer games (no backdoor or super 8's) easy draw Dublin v Cavan. Plus Mayo/Tipp should they beat Cavan.

If you still do not understand the point I am making, this is the best I can do.

As I now have resorted to giving you videos and well as words, so you can make your own mind up.

dobman88

Talk of splitting Dublin is gas. Youd just end up with Dublin A v Dublin B in the all Ireland final. Then the real crying would start.

gormdubhgorm

dobman88 wrote: »

Talk of splitting Dublin is gas. Youd just end up with Dublin A v Dublin B in the all Ireland final. Then the real crying would start.

I said similar to them as well. It would be a bit like splitting the Soviet Union in the soccer. It was the beginning of the end for Ireland loads of awkward countries started appearing.

Yugoslavia the same lots of class players and teams, appeared when they split.

Which is why I think the easiest and wisest choice for Kildare or Meath would be to pursue xyz number of Dublin players. Ones that cannot get in the Dublin panel. Or elsewhere. Parentage rule is there to be used.

It will strengthen them. Plus with one Dublin team no matter how strong they are can only field 15 at any one time. And six subs.

Yet, the Leinster counties might only be creating another obstacle against any limited success they could have.

If Dublin spilt, what I could see happening is one Dublin county becomes a feeder county, for the 'main' Dublin team.

And deals would be made between the two 'Dublin' counties on transfers between their clubs. There is no 'parish rule' in Dublin so it could be easy.

But, I seem to be the only one to think of these type of practicalities, as well as yourself.

If people think Seanie 'I can see your house from here' Johnston was bad between Cavan and Kildare. The best hurler in Kildare I believe? Wait until the Dublin A and Dublin B teams have a free run. No parish rule, lovely stuff.

It is obvious the two Dublin teams will work closely together, as they will not be 'rivals'. Only seeing themselves as Dubs.

You, are spot on. It will be gas the more I think of it.

It is a lot like Brexit started off with keeping the foreigners out. Now they realise they might not be able to get food in.

Splitting Dublin is another example not understanding the full complexity of a problem. Only thinking of it in narrow terms.

It is the law of unintended consequences in action

Strumms

dobman88 wrote: »

Talk of splitting Dublin is gas. Youd just end up with Dublin A v Dublin B in the all Ireland final. Then the real crying would start.

My first thought... but the anti Dubs as well as splitting the capital would want the draw rigged to enable a North vs South game well before the semis to avoid that... imagine the amount of fûcking dummies being spat if in September, Croker was ALL blue and three out of four years it was North Vs South in a final...

They’d be on here.. “ahem, what about four teams, North, South, East and West Dublin ?” :eek:

ArielAtom

Strumms wrote: »

My first thought... but the anti Dubs as well as splitting the capital would want the draw rigged to enable a North vs South game well before the semis to avoid that... imagine the amount of fûcking dummies being spat if in September, Croker was ALL blue and three out of four years it was North Vs South in a final...

They’d be on here.. “ahem, what about four teams, North, South, East and West Dublin ?” :eek:

It’s a pointless debate on here. It’s like trying to debate with Brexiters. I’ve found the ignore button is a superb help. There is no logic from the majority and it’s descends into what’s akin to trying to get a reaction. Debating it is just giving them oxygen.

dunnerc

eagle eye wrote: »

It's not hard in what is normally a two horse race. Have the other counties, not including Cork, even 20 between them.
And Dublin did a far more difficult task and won 11 Leinster titles in a row and covid didn't affect them. They've won six All-Ireland titles in a row and are odds on to make it seven.

Nope Dublin have won 5 All Ireland titles in a row and are odds on to make it 6;)

Enquiring

What we see here on this thread will be replicated in real life. There will be protests from some Dubs, mainly those who can't even admit to the advantages they have. There will be abuse, accusations, whataboutery, deflection, lies and so on but we have to push through with this. Counties have to stick together and say enough is enough. Dublin has to be split. The alternative is allowing one county to continue with their professional structures while every other county operates on an amateur basis.

largepants

ArielAtom wrote: »

I don’t frequent that site.

Site? I was on about the actual Hill 16.

largepants

ArielAtom wrote: »

It’s a pointless debate on here. It’s like trying to debate with Brexiters. I’ve found the ignore button is a superb help. There is no logic from the majority and it’s descends into what’s akin to trying to get a reaction. Debating it is just giving them oxygen.

Yea thats very mature. Someone doesnt agree with your point so you stick them on ignore.

How very Gemma O Doherty of you.

largepants

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I said similar to them as well. It would be a bit like splitting the Soviet Union in the soccer. It was the beginning of the end for Ireland loads of awkward countries started appearing.

Yugoslavia the same lots of class players and teams, appeared when they split.

Which is why I think the easiest and wisest choice for Kildare or Meath would be to pursue xyz number of Dublin players. Ones that cannot get in the Dublin panel. Or elsewhere. Parentage rule is there to be used.

It will strengthen them. Plus with one Dublin team no matter how strong they are can only field 15 at any one time. And six subs.

Yet, the Leinster counties might only be creating another obstacle against any limited success they could have.

If Dublin spilt, what I could see happening is one Dublin county becomes a feeder county, for the 'main' Dublin team.

And deals would be made between the two 'Dublin' counties on transfers between their clubs. There is no 'parish rule' in Dublin so it could be easy.

But, I seem to be the only one to think of these type of practicalities, as well as yourself.

If people think Seanie 'I can see your house from here' Johnston was bad between Cavan and Kildare. The best hurler in Kildare I believe? Wait until the Dublin A and Dublin B teams have a free run. No parish rule, lovely stuff.

It is obvious the two Dublin teams will work closely together, as they will not be 'rivals'. Only seeing themselves as Dubs.

You, are spot on. It will be gas the more I think of it.

It is a lot like Brexit started off with keeping the foreigners out. Now they realise they might not be able to get food in.

Splitting Dublin is another example not understanding the full complexity of a problem. Only thinking of it in narrow terms.

It is the law of unintended consequences in action

Could you see young Quinns house from where you live? Or Declan Darcys? Or Ryan O Dwyers? Etc etc etc

ArielAtom

largepants wrote: »

Site? I was on about the actual Hill 16.

Sorry about that, as you are on social media I made a mistake. No I haven’t is the answer. I’m more of a stand man these days. It’s an age thing. The lads beside me are all club members though if that helps.

ArielAtom

largepants wrote: »

Yea thats very mature. Someone doesnt agree with your point so you stick them on ignore.

How very Gemma O Doherty of you.

Absolutely nothing to do with difference of opinion. If you read through the thread you will see I have agreed with the need for change. I am a forward looking person. The majority of arguments here focus on what has occurred and not on a real and lasting solution. But you keep throwing out the snide personal digs. It says more about you than me.

Bonniedog

largepants wrote: »

Site? I was on about the actual Hill 16.

That old chestnut.

All tickets for the Hill for big games are either through clubs or Parnell Park Pass, so be quite accurate to say that all have some close connection to a club, past or present.

largepants

Bonniedog wrote: »

That old chestnut.

All tickets for the Hill for big games are either through clubs or Parnell Park Pass, so be quite accurate to say that all have some close connection to a club, past or present.

I think you've picked me wrong.

Either way he can't assume people on here are not members. No more than anyone can with those on Hill 16

largepants

ArielAtom wrote: »

Absolutely nothing to do with difference of opinion. If you read through the thread you will see I have agreed with the need for change. I am a forward looking person. The majority of arguments here focus on what has occurred and not on a real and lasting solution. But you keep throwing out the snide personal digs. It says more about you than me.

Ah right. So you take umbrage with people labelling you Gemma ODoherty esque but you have no problem labelling people brexiteers.

😂

ArielAtom

largepants wrote: »

Ah right. So you take umbrage with people labelling you Gemma ODoherty esque but you have no problem labelling people brexiteers.

��

Mine was a generalisation reflecting a certain mindset on here. Yours was personal. Very different. At no stage did I say posters were not members. I merely questioned were they. Anyway that is way off topic. I’d be really interested in what you think may be a solution to the perceived issue.

gormdubhgorm

largepants wrote: »

Could you see young Quinns house from where you live? Or Declan Darcys? Or Ryan O Dwyers? Etc etc etc

I have already explained how imports like Ryan O'Dwyer worked for Dublin hurling to an extent until they faded in 2013. Which is why I believe Kildare and Meath and other weaker Leinster counties need to do the same. It is all there in this thread I have discussed it in detail.

Plus, Declan Darcy was the very example I used as many people's ignorance of the parentage rule. The is why he was playing for Leitrim under the rule which is designed to help weaker counties. I have said it should be exploited more! You are agreeing with me as Darcy helped Leitrim to their first Connacht title in 1994 and was integral to it. A man born and bred in Dublin with Leitrim links.

You may wear large pants, but it seems you are all mouth and no trousers educate yourself. They may be large pants but they must be short ones!

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/true-blue-brings-it-all-back-home-1.160639

Similar with many other Dubs like Nesty Smith who played with Cavan (he will be torn today

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/i-dont-regret-it-how-a-true-blue-left-dublin-to-play-for-cavan-39820566.html

Clare also used the 'parentage rule'

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-20142430.html

A real GAA person would be well aware of the parentage rule. Or maybe they are just not educated enough on the rules and mechanisms of the GAA?

gormdubhgorm

Plus I hope my Leinster brethren are getting behind the Dubs today v Cavan. As they fly the flag for Leinster.

I am sure the whole of Ulster Gaeis are behind Cavan all the way!

largepants

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I have already explained how imports like Ryan O'Dwyer worked for Dublin hurling to an extent until they faded in 2013. Which is why I believe Kildare and Meath and other weaker Leinster counties need to do the same. It is all there in this thread I have discussed it in detail.

Plus, Declan Darcy was the very example I used as many people's ignorance of the parentage rule. The is why he was playing for Leitrim under the rule which is designed to help weaker counties. I have said it should be exploited more! You are agreeing with me as Darcy helped Leitrim to their first Connacht title in 1994 and was integral to it. A man born and bred in Dublin with Leitrim links.

You may wear large pants, but it seems you are all mouth and no trousers educate yourself. They may be large pants but they must be short ones!

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/true-blue-brings-it-all-back-home-1.160639

Similar with many other Dubs like Nesty Smith who played with Cavan (he will be torn today

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/i-dont-regret-it-how-a-true-blue-left-dublin-to-play-for-cavan-39820566.html

Clare also used the 'parentage rule'

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-20142430.html

A real GAA person would be well aware of the parentage rule. Or maybe they are just not educated enough on the rules and mechanisms of the GAA?

Im all mouth? Listen to yourself. Every post of yours is as long as War and Peace and each one betters the previous one in terms of waffling. Not to mention your condescending tone. No doubt you've a D4 accent with marbles in your mouth.

You've embarrassed yourself enough with some of your posts on here over the past week and then you have the audacity to question others how educated they are on Gaa matters.

The Gaa's very own Ross O Carroll Kelly.

Bonniedog

Well i know several Monaghan chaps who are shouting for Dublin! One of those local rivalries that rarely extends to wishing good things for your neighbour. Bit like north county Dubs and south county Meath!

largepants

ArielAtom wrote: »

Mine was a generalisation reflecting a certain mindset on here. Yours was personal. Very different. At no stage did I say posters were not members. I merely questioned were they. Anyway that is way off topic. I’d be really interested in what you think may be a solution to the perceived issue.

First of all its not a perceived issue. The results should tell you that.

I dont have a solution because I dont believe there is one. The horse has bolted.

gormdubhgorm

When the East Leinster Strategy eventually comes to fruition

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/15m-gaa-funding-boost-for-east-leinster-project-34934104.html

(I think I am the only one who seems aware of it or as mentioned on this thread as far as I know. Apologies if it already was)

(2016 article)

"€1.5m for an initial three years for coaching and games development projects in the main commuter counties outside Dublin."

But what exactly are Meath and Kildare going to spend the money on to improve themselves.
I believe you cannot make 'footballers' the head up types they are born with a gift.

I was at the 2004 AI club as a neutral watching Caltra v An Gaeltacht. When the teams came out I started laughing. Most Caltra lads were dwarfed by the Kerryman. Full of O'Sés et al.

Yet who was man of the match a slight a diminutive Mikey Meehan!

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-30138686.html#:~:text=Caltra%20have%20won%20their%20first,An%20Ghaeltacht%20at%20Croke%20Park.

Caltra won by a point.

Plus I have looked up the number of strength and conditioning coaches and sports scientists/psychologists Meath have/had.

Paul Colgan (Sport Scientist/ Sport and Exercise Physiologist) was an Intern with Meath GAA (2016-2017)

https://ie.linkedin.com/in/paul-colgan-ba927072


Paul Clarke (Head of Physical Performance - Meath GAA Academy 2012-2016)


https://ie.linkedin.com/in/paulclarkeperform

Niall Ronan former Rugby international who is Meath GAA Head of strength and conditioning. (Nov 2020)

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/1107/1176643-meath-coach-ronan-urges-ad-hoc-gaa-to-look-at-rugby/

(From article)

Niall Ronan:

"Club football needs an education overhaul. What equipment to buy, what should you invest in, having designated people within a club to be S&C coaches from U16s up to seniors. If the GAA were implementing that, it would massively improve the professionalism of the game.

"Unfortunately, you have a mixture of coaches that might not have the knowledge. Some clubs don’t know what to do. Look at clubs in Donegal, Tyrone, Dublin. They have full-time S&C coaches. They are training really professionally at a high level."

"My level one coaching for the GAA. I just did one day of coaching at a course and that is me qualified. Rock up and get it. Whereas when I got my coaching badges with the IRFU, I was interviewed and assessed numerous times. In terms of coaching education, there is no accountability.

On the S&C side of things, you have people doing crazy things. If they had some sort of proper pathway, it would stop all these injuries. The level would improve, and the game would go in the right direction. It is ad hoc in GAA. With everything. Fixtures are ad hoc. It is all over the place.

Alongside Andy McEntee, Ronan has begun streamlining the county’s production line. They have developed a pathway from U15s to senior and focused on upskilling club coaches. The goal is to have everything from the ground up aligned. Every player’s fitness test, strength test and injury profile recorded and monitored. Data that can be tracked and utilised to develop top talent.

A systematic approach enacted from the top down. The way it should be."

The IRFU are on the GAA’s doorstep. I would be getting advice from them, a professional organisation. How do we do this? How should we structure and organise our season?"


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Step by step, slowly.

It seems even Meath have taken the steps to move on beyond telling lads to drink less alcohol., eat less Tayto and have a few runs up the hill in Tara.

Also Niall Moyna of DCU has called the championship outmoded and outdated.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/out-dated-outmoded-and-turning-people-off-niall-moyna-on-championship-1.4154409

Like me (and many others) he agrees that the NFL is a much fairer and more enjoyable competition.
Niall Moyna is an expert in his field and GAA man. maybe people on this thread will take note of what he has to say about the structure of the GAA championship.

(From the article Nov 2020)

Niall Moyna:

“Why? Because you’re competing against teams of similar ability. The championship is totally out-dated, outmoded, and so is the provincial championship. And it’s turning people off. They’re coming in their thousands to watch national league games, because of the quality.

But if you look at the championship, you’re very lucky to get four good games the whole championship. Every game at the weekend was a competitive game. I’d go to a Division Four game in the league, because you’re going to see a competitive game. It’s not the same standard as Division One, but it’s competitive, and that’s what people want to see. Not some team having to put 15 men behind the ball because they’re being totally out-classed by a much superior team. And that’s the issue that has to be seriously addressed.”

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Also it is not lost on me that Niall Moyna was brought by Pat Gilroy when Dublin moving their training to DCU 2008

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/205659-205659

From article 2020 -

Ray Boyne: (Performance Analyst with Dublin football from 2003-2017)

"When Pat came in, he basically took us from where we were training in the old Artane school in St. David's. He lifted us up and brought the whole team up to DCU. With the help of Niall Moyna who's Professor in Sports Science in DCU, he began to really, really professionalise the set-up. He actually built a facility within DCU; dressing rooms, an area for video review, an area for players to eat and change. To this day, that's there. Which is a great credit to him. It opened the players up to a completely different level of support. Niall, through his involvement within DCU, was bringing in some of the greatest sport scientists, a lot of international athletes who were doing theses and working within DCU were coming to the training sessions and working on sprinting techniques, running techniques."



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It seems Meath are only copping on and catching up now? With Niall Ronan et al? And judging by Ronan's comments Meath have a long way to go.

eagle eye

dunnerc wrote:

Nope Dublin have won 5 All Ireland titles in a row and are odds on to make it 6

It's been so long since anybody else won, or will win, one I got confused.

gormdubhgorm

largepants wrote: »

Im all mouth? Listen to yourself. Every post of yours is as long as War and Peace and each one betters the previous one in terms of waffling. Not to mention your condescending tone. No doubt you've a D4 accent with marbles in your mouth.

You've embarrassed yourself enough with some of your posts on here over the past week and then you have the audacity to question others how educated they are on Gaa matters.

The Gaa's very own Ross O Carroll Kelly.

Now you have moved on to attack the poster rather than reading the post. But I won't engage in that. (You are incorrect by the way)

However, unlike you I hold my hands up when I am wrong. As I did on saying Menton and Newman would get into the top 6 teams (barring Dublin) in the country. I was told no. Only Keogan would be top of the list. By a Kerry man and Meath poster. And I found a article verifying how highly Keogan is rated by Meath people.

If you think my 'posts are war and peace' maybe you should just stick to the newspaper articles linked. Or do you not wish to discuss the meat of the issue and dig dip into it?

Going on about Declan Darcy as if it is a comeback when it backs up one of my points (the parentage rule) only makes you look silly.

Another fella would say. Sorry I got that wrong, interesting point I will look into it. But, not you.

Why not? A chip on your shoulder? Lack of education? Who knows? Who cares?

If I sound condescending to you, it is only because of your inferiority complex, I suspect. You have already assumed I am from D4 and have marbles in my mouth which speaks volumes in itself.