The Leinster Championship is dead.

jmayo

Bambi wrote: »

Kerry Group a major international business with 7 billion in revenue, thats some level of yerra to give it the beal bocht.

Ah the typical you hone in one one point to totally try and disparage the message.

I notice you didn't comment on the Mayo sponsors.

BTW Kerry Group might have turnovers of €7 billion, but the AIG group have turnover of $49.75 billion.

dobman88 wrote: »

Kerry group have given absolute fortunes to Kerry over the years and still do. I wouldnt exactly call it a small local business either.

And a lot of Kerry lads get cars from local dealers, Audi, Hyundai, Toyota, youd see them all with the branding on the side. One that's local to me that I know of is Reens Rathmore who are a Peugeot dealership have sponsored Paul Murphy for the last few years.

I'd assume some Mayo lads have car deals as do the Dubs and other top sides. It comes with being a county player.

But my main point was about Kerry group. Nothing small about em, they're a major international company

Ah yes I now know I shouldn't have mentioned Kerry as of course their Kerry group sponsorship will be called into question.

They may also have sweetheart deals with car dealers, but it isn't with one specific manufacturer.

Oh and even the great Kerry haven't an official airline.

BTW could anyone answer why Dublin have an official airline sponsor when they hardly ever leave the capital. :rolleyes:

ArielAtom

Open the Pubs wrote: »

Why are the fees more expensive though in Dublin? Say on link above for Ballyboden. €120 annually for non playing adult member, surely that is quite expensive, I mean realistically you don't get anything out of it bar supporting the club?

I know with my club in Cavan, I haven't paid membership in 10 years I'd say maybe longer. It was back when I played. I'm not actually sure what the price would be now, I would have to go out of my way to find someone to pay it and for virtually no benefit. I still pay into games etc on the gate.

That are the fees. Not paying them mean you are not a member. Very simple. So you are not a member!!!

castletownman

jmayo wrote: »

Ah the typical you hone in one one point to totally try and disparage the message.

I notice you didn't comment on the Mayo sponsors.

BTW Kerry Group might have turnovers of €7 billion, but the AIG group have turnover of $49.75 billion.



Ah yes I now know I shouldn't have mentioned Kerry as of course their Kerry group sponsorship will be called into question.

They may also have sweetheart deals with car dealers, but it isn't with one specific manufacturer.

Oh and even the great Kerry haven't an official airline.

BTW could anyone answer why Dublin have an official airline sponsor when they hardly ever leave the capital. :rolleyes:

They used their official airline sponsor for that historic tour of Western Europe they went on to commemorate WWI that definitely wasn't a foreign training camp. The avid history fans they are.

Open the Pubs

ArielAtom wrote: »

That are the fees. Not paying them mean you are not a member. Very simple. So you are not a member!!!

What? Try again in clear English. You're not making any sense.

ArielAtom

Open the Pubs wrote: »

What? Try again in clear English. You're not making any sense.

I pay membership fees, you don’t. If you don’t you can’t refer to yourself as a member of a club.

BrianBoru00

Did you smash it wrote: »

An interesting take when you only see 3 counties ahead of Dublin and they are all minnow counties. And Dublins actual rivals (a loose term) all in the bottom half.

1. The u should use the age groups closest to 6-18 for comparison purposes
2. Dublin's population is going to be far more diverse and have far more options as to what sports to choose.pick 100 leitrm children who are members of a sports club... 99% will be gaa clubs, that won t be the case in Dublin

Rolo2010

jmayo wrote: »

Ah the typical you hone in one one point to totally try and disparage the message.

I notice you didn't comment on the Mayo sponsors.

BTW Kerry Group might have turnovers of €7 billion, but the AIG group have turnover of $49.75 billion.



Ah yes I now know I shouldn't have mentioned Kerry as of course their Kerry group sponsorship will be called into question.

They may also have sweetheart deals with car dealers, but it isn't with one specific manufacturer.

Oh and even the great Kerry haven't an official airline.

BTW could anyone answer why Dublin have an official airline sponsor when they hardly ever leave the capital. :rolleyes:

Free trip down to Farrenfore when there's a game in Killarney. I think Donegal should hold our next game against them at Naomh Mhuire's pitch in Annagry. Only 10 mins from the airport.

Girly Gal

Nermal wrote: »

Given that this money is supposed to be used for children, shouldn't it be compared to the population up to say, aged 9, in each county?

On that basis, you might be surprised to find that some other counties should be in the firing line before Dublin.

County Population (0-9) Spending Per Capita
Leitrim 4604 €688,521.00 €149.55
Carlow 8476 €856,897.00 €101.10
Longford 6437 €650,484.00 €101.05
Dublin 181831 €17,916,477.00 €98.53
Offaly 11870 €1,004,426.00 €84.62
Roscommon 9126 €771,559.00 €84.55
Sligo 9043 €720,140.00 €79.64
Laois 14227 €1,074,486.00 €75.52
Monaghan 9596 €669,957.00 €69.82
Westmeath 13412 €871,420.00 €64.97
Cavan 12026 €750,425.00 €62.40
Waterford 16330 €984,557.00 €60.29
Kilkenny 14713 €803,582.00 €54.62
Clare 16894 €838,518.00 €49.63
Kerry 19173 €928,481.00 €48.43
Louth 19966 €948,007.00 €47.48
Wicklow 21891 €1,006,294.00 €45.97
Wexford 22004 €1,004,996.00 €45.67
Tipperary 22825 €965,082.00 €42.28
Mayo 17539 €718,780.00 €40.98
Meath 33510 €1,190,047.00 €35.51
Limerick 27153 €930,337.00 €34.26
Donegal 23221 €704,938.00 €30.36
Kildare 36438 €1,090,427.00 €29.93
Galway 36684 €968,539.00 €26.40
Cork 78087 €1,434,287.00 €18.37

That's just using https://statbank.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/Define.asp?maintable=E2022&PLanguage=0 and the numbers from Sean McGoldrick's tweet.

How are Cork and Galway at the bottom of the table on spending per capita, probably the two strongest dual counties(outside Dublin)yet getting the worst funding

jmayo

castletownman wrote: »

They used their official airline sponsor for that historic tour of Western Europe they went on to commemorate WWI that definitely wasn't a foreign training camp. The avid history fans they are.

Fecking Jackeens celebrating WW1.

Girly Gal wrote: »

How are Cork and Galway at the bottom of the table on spending per capita, probably the two strongest dual counties(outside Dublin)yet getting the worst funding

Because everyone hates Cork.

Kidding ..... or maybe not

Fann Linn

jmayo wrote: »

Fecking Jackeens celebrating WW1.



Because everyone hates Cork.

Kidding ..... or maybe not

And Galway's accounts were under investigation by the Gardai the last I heard. Something about concert revenues from Salthill not accounted for.I did ask on another thread was there an outcome to their enquiries yet?

Rolo2010

Fann Linn wrote: »

And Galway's accounts were under investigation by the Gardai the last I heard. Something about concert revenues from Salthill not accounted for.I did ask on another thread was there an outcome to their enquiries yet?

It finished. There was an audit. You could easily look this up yourself.

gormdubhgorm

Scoundrel wrote: »

I'm sorry but this is another nonsense that needs to be nipped in the bud straight away in the last two years one of Meath or Kildare have been in the super 8s i.e they were one of the best 8 teams in the country.

Amusing very selective! Meath a div 2 team nearly 2 decades! Kildare a yo yo team in NFL. Plus Kildare > underachievers in GAA pop. resources talent untapped.

ClanofLams

Funding imbalance accelerated the issue but the reality is that structures which were appropriate in the 1880s and even until the turn of the century are no longer fit for purpose. 100 years ago, Dublin had 10% of the population on the island, now that figure is north of 20% and only going one way. Dublin will never lose a Leinster Championship again under the current structures and will win 80% (conseratively) of Senior All-Irelands.

Coybig_

ClanofLams wrote: »

Funding imbalance accelerated the issue but the reality is that structures which were appropriate in the 1880s and even until the turn of the century are no longer fit for purpose. 100 years ago, Dublin had 10% of the population on the island, now that figure is north of 20% and only going one way. Dublin will never lose a Leinster Championship again under the current structures and will win 80% (conseratively) of Senior All-Irelands.

Cork, Limerick, Galway don't see anything close to the dominance of Dublin despite being the next 3 most populated areas.

It's funding, simple as that.

Did you smash it

Coybig_ wrote: »

Cork, Limerick, Galway don't see anything close to the dominance of Dublin despite being the next 3 most populated areas.

It's funding, simple as that.

Can’t really say that unless cork, limerick or galway had a population close to Dublin. Which they don’t.

Fann Linn

Rolo2010 wrote: »

It finished. There was an audit. You could easily look this up yourself.

Serious financial findings, blank cheques, rotten to the core, some of the phrases used.

Didn't know it was completed, just thought of it in the light of Dublin's finances being examined.

ClanofLams

Coybig_ wrote: »

Cork, Limerick, Galway don't see anything close to the dominance of Dublin despite being the next 3 most populated areas.

It's funding, simple as that.

I certainly think funding was a substantial factor in Dublin reaching their current dominance, it's probably not possible to figure out exactly how much. But I think it was going to be an issue later anyway (albeit without the funding imbalances that may have been twenty years from now and there's a chance, albeit slim, that for some reason population growth would stagnate in Dublin and continue to grow elsewhere).

Cork should definitely be far more competitive given their population, the other counties have less sizeable advantages eg. Galway is double Mayo's population but there is limited hurling there whereas Galway Footballers have lost out on many talents eg. Daithi Burke who would likely be a football star had he focused on it since 17/18.

I don't see any way of putting the genie back in the bottle now. Eventually the GAA will break up Dublin because a monopoly doesn't bring gate money in as the attendance at Leinster finals, half of what they were a decade ago, reflect. That's only going to continue too until change happens.

Did you smash it

What about my argument that after 133 years intercounty has run its course? Kerry and Dublin were the two best, way ahead of everyone else for the last 133 years. That doesn’t look like it’s going to change for the next ten years so what is intercounty really telling us anymore. Why bother flogging a dead horse?

Would a different competition structure with less teams and more quality be more exciting?

Rolo2010

Did you smash it wrote: »

What about my argument that after 133 years intercounty has run its course? Kerry and Dublin were the two best, way ahead of everyone else for the last 133 years. That doesn’t look like it’s going to change for the next ten years so what is intercounty really telling us anymore. Why bother flogging a dead horse?

Would a different competition structure with less teams and more quality be more exciting?

Surely that's an argument for splitting Dublin as well.

Did you smash it

Rolo2010 wrote: »

Surely that's an argument for splitting Dublin as well.

Could be, but Dublin north will still go further in the championship than Offaly, Louth, wexford, Carlow, Wicklow, Laois, Westmeath every year so is it not all a bit pointless. Seems to me the system should be ripped up...if the next 10 years show nothing new.

ClanofLams

Did you smash it wrote: »

What about my argument that after 133 years intercounty has run its course? Kerry and Dublin were the two best, way ahead of everyone else for the last 133 years. That doesn’t look like it’s going to change for the next ten years so what is intercounty really telling us anymore. Why bother flogging a dead horse?

Would a different competition structure with less teams and more quality be more exciting?

Has it though? In the 2000s Armagh and Tyrone won their first ever All-Irelands. Donegal won their second title ever in the last decade despite the dominance of Dublin. If you took Dublin out of it currently, you would have Tipp, Mayo and Cavan, none of which have won an All-Ireland for almost 60 years.

Of course some counties including some of the Dublin selections in this scenario will still win more than others but change will bring about competitive championships at least.

Did you smash it

ClanofLams wrote: »

Has it though? In the 2000s Armagh and Tyrone won their first ever All-Irelands. Donegal won their second title ever in the last decade despite the dominance of Dublin. If you took Dublin out of it currently, you would have Tipp, Mayo and Cavan, none of which have won an All-Ireland for almost 60 years.

Of course some counties including some of the Dublin selections in this scenario will still win more than others but change will bring about competitive championships at least.

It’s a tough one I suppose. I give the intercounty system 10 years personally.

Rolo2010

Did you smash it wrote: »

Could be, but Dublin north will still go further in the championship than Offaly, Louth, wexford, Carlow, Wicklow, Laois, Westmeath every year so is it not all a bit pointless. Seems to me the system should be ripped up...if the next 10 years show nothing new.

What counties should be merged? I suppose you could bring back the Breifne by merging Cavan and Leitrim.

Did you smash it

Rolo2010 wrote: »

What counties should be merged? I suppose you could bring back the Breifne by merging Cavan and Leitrim.

All counties should be subject to being merged and Dublin probably split. Then ur getting to even Steven on population but it’s difficult with under populated areas of the country in the west and north
Proposed split with population ,000 and home venue. South Dublin would need a new venue built.


Kildare Meath Westmeath 505. Pairc tailteann
Mayo Galway. 389. Salt hill
Cork Kerry. 689.5. Pairc hi caoimh
Clare limerick Tipperary Waterford 590. Thurles
Wexford Kilkenny Laois Carlow Wicklow 532.5. Nowlan
Offaly longford roscommon Leitrim cavan 291. Hyde
Dublin North. Croke
Dublin South no stadium
Louth Armagh Tyrone Monaghan 543. Clones
Antrim Derry down 1.4. Casement
Donegal Sligo Fermanagh 285 Enniskillen

bucketybuck

Did you smash it wrote: »

It makes a little difference to the senior county team but dublins big advantages are seen elsewhere.

I don't quite get what you mean by that comment? How does it not make a massive difference to the senior county side?

A booming and well funded club scene targeting and developing young players in by far the biggest population center in the country? That is the single biggest reason Dublin currently have a conveyor belt of top talent available, and numbers wise it is something that almost every other county will never be able to match.

thegills wrote: »

Its not all about the money lads. Its hard work talent and commitment

Rubbish. Hard work and commitment is needed but it is not the reason for Dublin's success. I see people in my county breaking their backs trying to leave no stone unturned in search of some success but the simple fact is that it is a losing battle, we are on the wrong side of a numbers game and there is nothing we can do about it.

Like I said, in years gone by it was possible for a talented group to just click, knuckle down and have a fairytale season. But those days are gone, now it is the days of video analysis and sports nutritionists etc etc. Every team is working hard, every team is prepared and there is far less chance of an upset.

And no, Cavan and Tipps wins are not evidence to the contrary, this is about the elephant in the room. Come back to me if they get within 10 points of Dublin.

Rolo2010

Did you smash it wrote: »

All counties should be subject to being merged and Dublin probably split. Then ur getting to even Steven on population but it’s difficult with under populated areas of the country in the west and north
Proposed split with population ,000 and home venue. South Dublin would need a new venue built.


Kildare Meath Westmeath 505. Pairc tailteann
Mayo Galway. 389. Salt hill
Cork Kerry. 689.5. Pairc hi caoimh
Clare limerick Tipperary Waterford 590. Thurles
Wexford Kilkenny Laois Carlow Wicklow 532.5. Nowlan
Offaly longford roscommon Leitrim cavan 291. Hyde
Dublin North. Croke
Dublin South no stadium
Louth Armagh Tyrone Monaghan 543. Clones
Antrim Derry down 1.4. Casement
Donegal Sligo Fermanagh 285 Enniskillen

Any merge has to have some historical context and even that will be difficult. Sligo and Donegal don't share a border.

Did you smash it

Rolo2010 wrote: »

Any merge has to have some historical context and even that will be difficult. Sligo and Donegal don't share a border.

One of the great lies about sport is that fans have to identify with a team on a deep level to support it.

News to all the man utd, Liverpool fans who support those rabidly for no other reason that the teams are successful and supporting them is fun.

People support success. Identity on a deep level can still be found with your local gaa clubs. Elite sport doesn’t run off it.

Rolo2010

Did you smash it wrote: »

One of the great lies about sport is that fans have to identify with a team on a deep level to support it.

News to all the man utd, Liverpool fans who support those rabidly for no other reason that the teams are successful and supporting them is fun.

People support success. Identity on a deep level can still be found with your local gaa clubs. Elite sport doesn’t run off it.

Two different sports. It's not a lie for GAA which has the current county boundaries for 130 years.

Did you smash it

Rolo2010 wrote: »

Two different sports. It's not a lie for GAA which has the current county boundaries for 130 years.

Fair enough, leave half the country condemned to support counties that are cannon fodder for the other half every year.

Rolo2010

Did you smash it wrote: »

Fair enough, leave half the country condemned to support counties that are cannon fodder for the other half every year.

Merging counties won't save intercounty football. Fans will just return to club football. I'd rather have the county champions tog out for the county and scrap the All-Ireland club championships.

Enquiring

Wasn't the funding spent on coaches? That's what it was for. Dublin had close to 100 coaches paid for by the funding while some counties only had one or two. Nearly every club had their own development officer, going into schools, coaching in their clubs, putting on coaching seminars etc. There was also paid officials put in place to plan it all out and oversee it.

Did you smash it

Rolo2010 wrote: »

Merging counties won't save intercounty football. Fans will just return to club football. I'd rather have the county champions tog out for the county and scrap the All-Ireland club championships.

Many many gaa fans wouldn’t be anyway invested in clubs. They like supporting county because there are pissups in Dublin and games in big stadiums.

Enquiring

And for those denying the huge effect these coaches had on Dublin GAA, just look at the difference it's made to all levels of Dublin GAA, club, underage and women's football have all improved beyond recognition.

Rolo2010

Did you smash it wrote: »

Many many gaa fans wouldn’t be anyway invested in clubs. They like supporting county because there are pissups in Dublin and games in big stadiums.

Then it will be the end of the GAA as a national force in sport.

bucketybuck

Did you smash it wrote: »

Many many gaa fans wouldn’t be anyway invested in clubs. They like supporting county because there are pissups in Dublin and games in big stadiums.

If the GAA properly focused on the club game then the clubs would grow, the "product" would become more attractive and the bandwagoners will follow in turn.

Girly Gal

bucketybuck wrote: »

If the GAA properly focused on the club game then the clubs would grow, the "product" would become more attractive and the bandwagoners will follow in turn.

Outside of Dublin most clubs by their nature are very limited in the growth they can have due to population and parish boundaries, etc, also, people don't normally support a club they have no link to.

Dickie10

I actually thought this maybe the easiest way to solve this issue, go semi pro, get rid of county teams and use the club model . So divisions 1 and 2 maybe semi pro and ameateur outside that maybe 12 team divisons. How many dublin based clubs would there be?

gormdubhgorm

Did you smash it wrote: »

Can’t really say that unless cork, limerick or galway had a population close to Dublin. Which they don’t.

Plus vast areas of Dublin are GAA wastelands. Unlike down the country where it is at the core of the community. If you go to some places in Dublin you would not even know there was a GAA match on.

gormdubhgorm

Dickie10 wrote: »

I actually thought this maybe the easiest way to solve this issue, go semi pro, get rid of county teams and use the club model . So divisions 1 and 2 maybe semi pro and ameateur outside that maybe 12 team divisons. How many dublin based clubs would there be?

Would you not think semi-pro would kill the game? Dublin would just hoover up all the best players.

I think you are half right though. Club football will be the future and inter county football will go the way of the Railway Cup. History.

JeffKenna

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Plus vast areas of Dublin are GAA wastelands. Unlike down the country where it is at the core of the community. If you go to some places in Dublin you would not even know there was a GAA match on.

That's the case for any city in Ireland.

gormdubhgorm

JeffKenna wrote: »

That's the case for any city in Ireland.

I am talking county wise not just city. And the vast populations and areas with no GAA are not the same as what Dublin has.Plus there is an anti GAA vibe from many in Dublin that you would not get elsewhere in Ireland maybe except in NI !

Dickie10

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Would you not think semi-pro would kill the game? Dublin would just hoover up all the best players.

I think you are half right though. Club football will be the future and inter county football will go the way of the Railway Cup. History.

It could be based on the AFL in Australia , regions have 1 or 2 pro clubs , dublin have 5 or 6. Prob just morket it right and the rest will follow Tv money etc, could start bringing in foregn players from irish america etc.

gormdubhgorm

Dickie10 wrote: »

It could be based on the AFL in Australia , regions have 1 or 2 pro clubs , dublin have 5 or 6. Prob just morket it right and the rest will follow Tv money etc, could start bringing in foregn players from irish america etc.

Jayus that is really thinking ahead! Wouldn't happen in the next 50 years i'd say.

GAA tweaks things rather than moves forwards trying to please everyone and no one. I think that is the main problem with the GAA it is too democratic for it's own good. So they make bits of changes here and there.

the kelt

Unless something is done i can see intercounty football going the way of the railway cup within my lifetime.

Theres an element amongst Dublin people that doesnt look at the bigger picture either. Many are just happy that they are winning and thats it, couldnt care about anything else. Which i can understand to be fair.

Not only in the other counties in Leinster are footballers disillusioned but also in Dublin itself. The senior panel is one team of c 30 players and thats it.

There are so many talented footballers in Dublin that will never see County football.

I can see Club football taking over. We all know of Dublin club teams and others around the country with some of the best footballers in the country playing with them, i mean the likes of Parnells brought it to the extreme.

In my opinion its not beyond the realms of possibility to see within my lifetime a semi pro Gaelic Football league being fought out between a number of super clubs around the country.

Its a case of demand and supply, the sheer size of some of these clubs and financial backing just requires an ambition to break away. Think about it.

Twelve super clubs around the country hoovering up the talent thats fed up getting walloped by a Dublin juggernaut every year with a semi pro set up playing every week or so against teams of a similar level. All it needs is a TV sponsor and someone with a vision to bring it about.

I know which id prefer to watch, Dublin hammering a team by twenty points in a half empty croke park or 2 evenly match superclubs with some of the best talent in the country on both sides!

By what they have done the GAA imho have only sped up this proccess.

Did you smash it

If the game goes pro it’ll be a league of the best players in the country. The cream of county players. It won’t involve club standard players.

moycullen14

Think this is going down a very interesting route. The problem with the football championship is structural. You cannot have a competition where one of the teams (Leitrim) has a population/catchment of 32,000 and another has 1.35M.

The problem with Dublin (and to some extent it's shared with Leinster in Rugby) is that if they ever got their act together, they would be unstoppable. They have and they are.

All the talk of financial doping, grants, etc. is ignoring the elephant in the room - Dublin is too big and too different from every other county in the country.
Unless you 'hobble' Dublin, this will continue and probably get worse.

It's worth looking at rugby because they had to change their competitive units with the onset of professionalism.

Rugby went down the fusion route - merging clubs into provinces. Maybe the GAA needs to go down the fission route - moving from county to club.

One thing for sure, the new unit - whatever it is - must exist and be real. Makey-uppy units won't work.

Think there is something in the club route. At least it would allow Leitrim to compete with Dublin.

LeBash

The problem with Leinster isn't Dublin, its the rest.

Dublin have won 5 all Ireland but they didn't absolutely run away with the finals.

Anything that is being said about Dublin could be said about Kerry as well, Tyrone at a time, etc, etc.

Nothing in life will be totally fair but nobody was complaining in Leinster in the 90s when Meath were absolutely knocking 7 shades out of Dublin physically and on the score board.

Rugby is challenging for players as a professional sport and Dublin has 4 soccer teams in the League of Ireland, all who are investing in youth and paying players. The pool of players will shrink and the coaching talent will move for money in time.

robbiezero

LeBash wrote: »

The problem with Leinster isn't Dublin, its the rest.

Dublin have won 5 all Ireland but they didn't absolutely run away with the finals.

Anything that is being said about Dublin could be said about Kerry as well, Tyrone at a time, etc, etc.

Nothing in life will be totally fair but nobody was complaining in Leinster in the 90s when Meath were absolutely knocking 7 shades out of Dublin physically and on the score board.

Rugby is challenging for players as a professional sport and Dublin has 4 soccer teams in the League of Ireland, all who are investing in youth and paying players. The pool of players will shrink and the coaching talent will move for money in time.

Dubs and Meath both won 4 Leinsters in the 90s

castletownman

robbiezero wrote: »

Dubs and Meath both won 4 Leinsters in the 90s

Imagine only winning four Leinster titles, one All-Ireland and appearing in two other All-Ireland finals in a decade.

Its a wonder Dublin football ever recovered at all.

Hammer Archer

LeBash wrote: »

Nothing in life will be totally fair but nobody was complaining in Leinster in the 90s when Meath were absolutely knocking 7 shades out of Dublin physically and on the score board.

I think you're misremembering the 1990s. Meath beat Dublin by 3 in 1990, by 1 in the four game saga in 1991, by 2 in 1996, 3 in 1997 (Dublin missed a last minute penalty) and by 5 in 1999.
Dublin beat Meath by 1 in 1993 & 1994 and by 10(!) in 1995. Even when Meath were at their strongest in the 1990s, matches against Dublin were generally close fought affairs. The only hammering was dished out by Dublin in 1995.
As mentioned, Meath and Dublin each won 4 Leinsters in the 90s.