The Leinster Championship is dead.

Big Ears

robbiezero wrote: »

Dubs and Meath both won 4 Leinsters in the 90s

There's plenty in that post to dissect. Most of the things said about Dublin could not be said about Tyrone.
Tipp have more football All-Ireland's than Tyrone for God sake, and while Tyrone have won 7 Ulster titles in the last 20 years, that's nowhere close to 15 of 16.
The amount of finance Tyrone GAA receive is also not causing problems

It is simply deflection, and something Dublin GAA fans need to stop with tbh. As crazy as it sounds, Dublin fans more than anyone should be shouting from the rooftops to spread some of the funding they receive into other counties.
Of course it seems counterintuitive, but we've just had several pages of people discussing splitting Dublin or removing Inter-County as we know it altogether, and while it won't be tomorrow or the year after, the GAA will react if people stop going to games due to lack of competition.

The GAA need Intercounty to fund development, and if they can't make any money because Dublin are too strong, they'll take drastic action to rectify that if required.
It might be in 10, 15 or 20 years, but the greatest run a team has ever gone on will quite possibly end with them not existing anymore.

Removing funding will not hamper Dublin very much, but if spent correctly it could potentially bring on some others. Maybe it won't, and if it won't then changes will come anyway.
But if anyone wants to keep Dublin as one Intercounty unit, then defunding them is the only chance there is of that being possible.

jmayo

LeBash wrote: »

The problem with Leinster isn't Dublin, its the rest.

Dublin have won 5 all Ireland but they didn't absolutely run away with the finals.

I might get stick for this, but I am going to say it anyway.
The GAA hierarchy should get down on bended knee and thank Kerry, Donegal and most especially the major boxoffice draw that is Mayo for saving football for the last 10 odd years.
And yes Mayo is the biggest draw because they have great support and everyone is waiting to see what they bring to the party or as some have said how they manage to lose in new weird ways.

Without the challenge these teams brought to Dublin it would have turned the All Ireland into the farce that is Leinster.

the kelt

LeBash wrote: »

The problem with Leinster isn't Dublin, its the rest.

Dublin have won 5 all Ireland but they didn't absolutely run away with the finals.

Anything that is being said about Dublin could be said about Kerry as well, Tyrone at a time, etc, etc.

Nothing in life will be totally fair but nobody was complaining in Leinster in the 90s when Meath were absolutely knocking 7 shades out of Dublin physically and on the score board.

Rugby is challenging for players as a professional sport and Dublin has 4 soccer teams in the League of Ireland, all who are investing in youth and paying players. The pool of players will shrink and the coaching talent will move for money in time.

They didnt run away with Leinster finals either at the start of their 10 in a row. Funnily enough that same argument was being used at the time, its ok, its nothing to do with funding, only a kick of a ball between the teams at the start in Leinster, only beat Wexford by 3 points and Meath by 3 the following year.

The last 3 years its up to 18, 17 and 21 points.

The all ireland wont go the same way, sure they have been run close, yep only beat Kerry by 3 Mayo twice by a point which ahs now jumped to 6! Yep a replay with Kerry last time around but still end up winning by 6!

A pattern here possibly, first 3 leinster wins of the 10 in a row were by 3 points, 3 points and 7 points followed by a massacre after that.

But sure its grand, not running away with the Ai finals, well at least at the start, only 3 points and by 1 a few times after that but now jumping to 6.

I wonder whats coming next??

Scoundrel

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Amusing very selective! Meath a div 2 team nearly 2 decades! Kildare a yo yo team in NFL. Plus Kildare > underachievers in GAA pop. resources talent untapped.

It's the last 2 years I should think that's a good barometer of where a team is now and the league doesn't matter a ****e 2 Div 3 teams are provincial champions and the multi million euro Dubs don't even win it every year shows how little it matters.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

With some of the arguments here, I'm expecting people to tell me that PSG are just lucky to have a special golden generation who will soon fade away.

RoyalCelt

Bambi wrote: »

Ballymuns had a GAA team since the 60s or the 1890s if you count Kickhams as a Ballymun team back then, Clontarf since the 60s, Templogue (Now TSS) founded in the 60s or 70s. Whats interesting is theres swathes of "New Dublin" without GAA clubs while some traditional GAA areas have aging populations and no space for pitches so room for improvement in uptake

So what you're saying is with more investment there could be even more booming clubs in Dublin so they can get even better and beat meath by 30+ points instead. Can't wait!


Just to touch on other posts here:

I do actually agree that at this stage pulling the plug on dublin funding and diverting it elsewhere prob won't actually result in Dublin not winning leinster every year. It will probably allow teams to lose to dublin by under 10 points or the occasional narrow loss but that's about it.

It's been very frustrating watching the current situation unfold knowing a once epic province was dying a slow death. The frustrating thing is the nationwide coverage it now gets was nowhere to be seen a decade ago when real change could have happened before it's too late.

Nobody outside leinster cared until dublin starting winning the all Ireland every year. At the rate we're going the only way to make it competitive again is by making Dublin North and South while also investing massively into the development of GAA in other Leinster counties.

gormdubhgorm

the kelt wrote: »

Unless something is done i can see intercounty football going the way of the railway cup within my lifetime.

I believe this inevitable in 50 years time club football will be number one ahead of inter county. No bad thing in my view. It will be the next step in the evolution of the GAA.

Whether people like it or not Dublin's use of resources has brought Gaelic football on to a new level. Before Dublin wasted their resources and facilities they were one of the major underachievers in the GAA.

I remember my country cousins laughing at Dublin all mouth and no trousers. Never backed up the hype. Yet they claimed Dublin had this big population and played all their games at 'home' in CP.

The real question that has to be asked about Leinster how Meath and Kildare fell so far so fast. What happened them? Ok you can argue the Dubs dominated Leinster as Kerry have done in Munster - (Slighty less than Kerry over a 20 year period)

But what have Kildare and Meath done outside Leinster since the backdoor system?
Can you remember Meath or Kildare beating any teams in the backdoor system except teams that they should have?

Did the tactics Kildare used get the best of those crop of u21 and minor players they had?

Why has Meath fallen so fast since Sean Boylan left? Why are Meath so dependant on one club 'Ratoath' for the future of Meath football? Surely that says something went wrong somewhere?

Did you smash it

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I believe this inevitable in 50 years time club football will be number one ahead of inter county.

Why do you think that?

gormdubhgorm

Scoundrel wrote: »

It's the last 2 years I should think that's a good barometer of where a team is now and the league doesn't matter a ****e 2 Div 3 teams are provincial champions and the multi million euro Dubs don't even win it every year shows how little it matters.

Not true a real barometer of a teams cycle is 7/8 years. And the league does matter many teams treat it seriously. You are just being very selective in your cherry picking to suit an argument.

Meath have been in the doldrums for decades. Changing managers in hope rather than expectation. Kildare are a yo-yo county always struggled when they got to division 1. Not only that there is a real question about how inept tactics did not get the best out the Kildare talent coming through at minor and u21 level.

Ask yourself how have Meath and Kildare done outside Leinster since the backdoor system? Given Meath and Kildare's population and resources relative to other counties outside Leinster and excluding Dublin.

Ask yourself when examine Kildare and Meath's record in the backdoor system have they overachieved or underachieved?

An honest answer should give you an answer, as to a large part of the problem which has now happened in Leinster football.

Louth, Wicklow, Carlow were always also rans never really had a hope of winning anything except in the freak year of 2010 with Louth. Those counties never whinged in fact most would have focused on club football. Leinster inter county was a bit of a novelty. Wexford had a couple of years where Jason Ryan, a good manager galvanised a good set of players.

Micko gave Laois and Kildare a leg up as he was a celebrity manager and attracted players and hype. Plus he knew how to manage/motivate a team. What has happened them since?

Same thing happened with Westmeath and Paidi. What has happened them since?

Same thing happened with Tommy Lyons and Offaly he motivated the team hyped them up got them going. What has happened them since?

That shows to me getting a good manager and players is important regardless of facilities, funding and so on. The correct use of the tools available is crucial. The right people in charge.

Meath and Kildare have an awful lot to answer for as the counties have been clearly mismanaged. And they are underachieving which has been demonstrated not by 1/2 years but for decades since the introduction of the back door system.

gormdubhgorm

Did you smash it wrote: »

Why do you think that?

Because as clubs are much smaller entities (than counties) it gives more counties clubs a chance to be competitive. Love of the parish etc is still strong. The AI club championship is a great competition. And it was shown this year when the clubs were given a straight run at it (no inter county disruption) played in nice weather what a great competition it will become if let grow.

You only have to look at shocks in Leinster Rathnew beating Vincent's or Mullinaughta beating Kilmacud Crokes. It is GAA in it's purest form imo. Love of the parish and lads winning with fellas they grew up with since play school!

Did you smash it

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Because as clubs are much smaller entities (than counties) it gives more counties clubs a chance to be competitive. Love of the parish etc is still strong. The AI club championship is a great competition. And it was shown this year when the clubs were given a straight run at it (no inter county disruption) played in nice weather what a great competition it will become if let grow.

You only have to look at shocks in Leinster Rathnew beating Vincent's or Mullinaughta beating Kilmacud Crokes. It is GAA in it's purest form imo. Love of the parish and lads winning with fellas they grew up with since play school!

Ok. Personally I don’t see club growing bigger than county.

People will always want to see the best players in the country play with each other and compete against each other. Club doesn’t provide that.

gormdubhgorm

Did you smash it wrote: »

Ok. Personally I don’t see club growing bigger than county.

People will always want to see the best players in the country play with each other and compete against each other. Club doesn’t provide that.

it gives a much larger spread. The Dublin club championship is very competitive for instance with a lot of clubs in a chance of winning it.

The spread of inter county players in clubs all over the country gives clubs a chance of doing something on the day. Plus not only that the club is tremendously proud of their 'local star' the inter county player.

If clubs were let play instead of being messed around by inter county it would be a great competition. I always enjoy watching other counties championship finals. Seeing how the stars on either side perform. And looking out for fellas who I have not heard of who look handy.

Pure GAA.

Given Dublin's dominance of Leinster I can see many players from inter county not bothering with it. Playing with their clubs instead. Wicklow were a notorious county for it until Micko rounded them up. It will go the same with other counties. Would you be bothered? The club is where it is at the end of the day.

Scoundrel

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Not true a real barometer of a teams cycle is 7/8 years. And the league does matter many teams treat it seriously. You are just being very selective in your cherry picking to suit an argument.

Meath have been in the doldrums for decades. Changing managers in hope rather than expectation. Kildare are a yo-yo county always struggled when they got to division 1. Not only that there is a real question about how inept tactics did not get the best out the Kildare talent coming through at minor and u21 level.

Ask yourself how have Meath and Kildare done outside Leinster since the backdoor system? Given Meath and Kildare's population and resources relative to other counties outside Leinster and excluding Dublin.

Ask yourself when examine Kildare and Meath's record in the backdoor system have they overachieved or underachieved?

An honest answer should give you an answer, as to a large part of the problem which has now happened in Leinster football.

Louth, Wicklow, Carlow were always also rans never really had a hope of winning anything except in the freak year of 2010 with Louth. Those counties never whinged in fact most would have focused on club football. Leinster inter county was a bit of a novelty. Wexford had a couple of years where a good manager galvanised a good set of players.

Micko gave Laois and Kildare a leg up as he was a celebrity manager and attracted players and hype. Plus he knew how to manage/motivate a team. What has happened them since?

Same thing happened with Westmeath and Paidi. What has happened them since?

Same thing happened with Tommy Lyons and Offaly he motivated the team hyped them up got them going. What has happened them since?

That shows to me getting a good manager and players is important regardless of facilities, funding and so on. The correct use of the tools available is crucial. The right people in charge.

Meath and Kildare have an awful lot to answer for as the counties have been clearly mismanaged. And they are underachieving which has been demonstrated not by 1/2 years but for decades since the introduction of the back door system.

Sorry i'm not going to entertain this nonsense that it is all Kildare and Meaths fault yes mistakes have been made in both counties but the single biggest change since 2010 or so has been the emergence of the multi million euro Dublin behemoth funded by the GAA it is not an organic change it is one that is funded by and created by the GAA all Kildare Meath and the other Leinster counties are asking for is fairness and a level playing field yet we are continually denied that and worse still being blamed for it being so uneven.

And as for poor backdoor records Kildare were once kings of the backdoor ffs regularly getting to QFs and super 8s over the last 10 years and one semi final. Kildare lost the 2002 2003 and 2009 leinster finals narrowly Meath lost several Leinster finals in that period narrowly and robbed one disgraceful victory. Now ask yourself what has changed? Meath and Kildare are operating at roughly the same level as they were it's the multi million euro Dubs that has changed.

gormdubhgorm

Scoundrel wrote: »

Sorry i'm not going to entertain this nonsense that it is all Kildare and Meaths fault yes mistakes have been made in both counties but the single biggest change since 2010 or so has been the emergence of the multi million euro Dublin behemoth funded by the GAA it is not an organic change it is one that is funded by and created by the GAA all Kildare Meath and the other Leinster counties are asking for is fairness and a level playing field yet we are continually denied that and worse still being blamed for it being so uneven.

And as for poor backdoor records Kildare were once kings of the backdoor ffs regularly getting to QFs and super 8s over the last 10 years and one semi final. Kildare lost the 2002 2003 and 2009 leinster finals narrowly Meath lost several Leinster finals in that period narrowly and robbed one disgraceful victory. Now ask yourself what has changed? Meath and Kildare are operating at roughly the same level as they were it's the multi million euro Dubs that has changed.

But did Kildare beat anyone in the backdoor they were not supposed to beat? That is my point!

Plus the tactics Kildare used with the players they had were questionable. What happened those u21s and minors they had under used and hamstrung by limited tactics.

At best Kieran McGeeney only ever got Kildare fit, and did not do much with them at all. Who did Kildare beat that they were not supposed to? Where was the improvement?

Meath are dependant on one club team Ratoath for their young players who have only recently emerged what does that say? A well run club with good people and a plan a structure. What happened the rest of Meath club football?

The problem is Dublin got organised for a change and have learnt form Tyrone, Donegal, borrowed from basketball, rugby league and taken the game on to a new level. Meath and Kildare in contrast have gone backwards.

I remember watching a Kildare v Galway div 2 final and both managers ideas of 'tactics' was to funnel everyone back and rarely attack at all. No fast breaks or anything was awful to watch. Two teams hamstrung by limited managers use of very good players.

Sh1te managers and sh1te tactics that is what has changed in Meath and Kildare misuse of resources and talented players. As well as Dublin evolving the game to a different level through excellent use tactics, talent and resources.

Did you smash it

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

it gives a much larger spread. The Dublin club championship is very competitive for instance with a lot of clubs in a chance of winning it.

The spread of inter county players in clubs all over the country gives clubs a chance of doing something on the day. Plus not only that the club is tremendously proud of their 'local star' the inter county player.

If clubs were let play instead of being messed around by inter county it would be a great competition. I always enjoy watching other counties championship finals. Seeing how the stars on either side perform. And looking out for fellas who I have not heard of who look handy.

Pure GAA.

Given Dublin's dominance of Leinster I can see many players from inter county not bothering with it. Playing with their clubs instead. Wicklow were a notorious county for it until Micko rounded them up. It will go the same with other counties. Would you be bothered? The club is where it is at the end of the day.

I think you’ve been reading too many joe Brolly articles.

Intercounty is what attracts the crowds, the sponsorship and the tv deals.

People want to see jack mccaffrey play with diarmuid Connolly not with “some lad”

What you’re proposing could happen but there’s no evidence to support it.

Scoundrel

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But did Kildare beat anyone in the backdoor they were not supposed to beat? That is my point!

Plus the tactics Kildare used with the players they had were questionable. What happened those u21s and minors they had under used and hamstrung by limited tactics.

At best Kieran McGeeney only ever got Kildare fit, and did not do much with them at all. Who did Kildare beat that they were not supposed to? Where was the improvement?

Meath are dependant on one club team Ratoath for their young players who have only recently emerged what does that say? A well run club with good people and a plan a structure. What happened the rest of Meath club football?

The problem is Dublin got organised for a change and have learnt form Tyrone, Donegal, borrowed from basketball, rugby league and taken the game on to a new level. Meath and Kildare in contrast have gone backwards.

I remember watching a Kildare v Galway div 2 final and both managers ideas of 'tactics' was to funnel everyone back and rarely attack at all. No fast breaks or anything was awful to watch. Two teams hamstrung by limited managers use of very good players.

Sh1te managers and sh1te tactics that is what has changed in Meath and Kildare misuse of resources and talented players. As well as Dublin evolving the game to a different level through excellent use tactics, talent and resources.

Resources my dear man is what this is all about and Dublin have far more of them than anyone else given to them the rest of the post is just a fancier rehashing of the old " the other teams just need to work harder" nonsense.

Did you smash it

Southampton is a far better ran club than Man Utd but Man utd finish further up the table. I wonder why.

There’s a lot of bull**** out there about the greatness of John Costello. Easy to run a profitable county board when multinationals are creaming themselves to offer you fat endorsement deals.

I just laugh at how people in the media buy into the nonsense at this stage.

jmayo

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

With some of the arguments here, I'm expecting people to tell me that PSG are just lucky to have a special golden generation who will soon fade away.

Always makes me laugh when you hear someone claim "money doesn't buy you success".

It is not always a guarantee, but it shure as hell does always seem to help a lot.
In soccer PSG, City, Blackburn, Chelsea, Real are all proof.
In Rugby Union Toulon, Saracens, Exeter.

All with massive investment and success.

Yeah yeah we know GAA is different.
Players are not bought and sold and they all still work.
They play where they were born.

And of course analysts, coaches, physios, psychologists, dieticians, strength and fitness coaches, rehabilitation, all work for free in GAA world.

It's a bit like how home venues aren't an advantage.

Tis a funny old world, the GAA it bucks all the normal trends.

corny

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I do actually agree that at this stage pulling the plug on dublin funding and diverting it elsewhere prob won't actually result in Dublin not winning leinster every year. It will probably allow teams to lose to dublin by under 10 points or the occasional narrow loss but that's about it.

Yeah the belief that the development money is a silver bullet is just silly imo. Dublin won the same amount of Leinster Minors as Kildare last decade. If the development money was THE factor we'd expect to see a similar return at minor. We won more minor titles in the eighties when we didn't have a penny to our name.;)

Dublin's dominance only becomes real when the young lads establish themselves in the club game and touch base with the inter county set up. Thats where they're learning to play the game better than everyone else, not when they're 9 years of age with tainted money. Thats why I have a problem with these muppets lazily citing this as some elixir.

I'm with you in that as things stand I don't think you can stop Dublin now at Leinster level and they're in danger of crushing the spirit nationally at this rate. We need a real debate about what can be done and to my mind we're not getting that. In this thread and in the media nationally the undertone that the GAA bought All Irelands for Dublin is real. They ignore the fact that promoting Gaelic games and getting kids to our game is ****ing good thing. This leads to a trenchant attitude amongst Dubs who just shrug their shoulders and say **** them.

The development budget will be redistributed but if thats the only measure, and we sit back and wait 10 years for Meath/Kildare to fight back... well enjoy the wait i say to anyone who believes it.

The Lost Sheep

jmayo wrote: »

Always makes me laugh when you hear someone claim "money doesn't buy you success".

It is not always a guarantee, but it shure as hell does always seem to help a lot.
In soccer PSG, City, Blackburn, Chelsea, Real are all proof.
In Rugby Union Toulon, Saracens, Exeter.

All with massive investment and success.

Yeah yeah we know GAA is different.
Players are not bought and sold and they all still work.
They play where they were born.

And of course analysts, coaches, physios, psychologists, dieticians, strength and fitness coaches, rehabilitation, all work for free in GAA world.

It's a bit like how home venues aren't an advantage.

Tis a funny old world, the GAA it bucks all the normal trends.

Exeter not really the same in rugby. Not really same as Sarries/Toulon at all. Look at their squad etc. But yes GAA is slightly different

ArielAtom

jmayo wrote: »

Always makes me laugh when you hear someone claim "money doesn't buy you success".

It is not always a guarantee, but it shure as hell does always seem to help a lot.
In soccer PSG, City, Blackburn, Chelsea, Real are all proof.
In Rugby Union Toulon, Saracens, Exeter.

All with massive investment and success.

Yeah yeah we know GAA is different.
Players are not bought and sold and they all still work.
They play where they were born.

And of course analysts, coaches, physios, psychologists, dieticians, strength and fitness coaches, rehabilitation, all work for free in GAA world.

It's a bit like how home venues aren't an advantage.

Tis a funny old world, the GAA it bucks all the normal trends.

OK. What funding are you referring to firstly and secondly what is you solution?

gormdubhgorm

Going back since 2010 the last time another team won Leinster.
And focusing how Kildare and Meath did.

2010

Leinster Championship

Meath: win Leinster Final controversially (qualified success)

Kildare: beaten by Louth by 7 points in the Leinster QF (Flop underachievement)

Backdoor system

Kildare: struggle and draw with Antrim (flop), then win replay
Following with victories against Leitrim. Derry and Monaghan.

All teams you would say Kildare should have been favourites for at that time.


All Ireland Championship

Kildare have a good win against Meath in the AI QF (Success)

Kildare beaten by Down by two points could be argued Down were a better team since they won the AI.

Plus Kildares 2013 generation on from minor had yet to emerge.

However both Kildare and Down lost the u21 finals in 2008 and 2009 respectively. So it could be argued it was a real 50/50 game at senior level based on Senior level. And talent coming through.

Verdict: Decent year for Kildare being knocked out by the AI champs in an AI SF after the embarrassment v Louth. Could have been a lot better or worse though. A lost opportunity in a lot of ways?

--
--

2011

2011 - Tipp and Cavan were making waves at underage.
Tips winning the minor and Cavan the u21. Deserves a mention considering what happened this year in 2020.


Leinster championship

Kildare had a good win against Meath in the Leinster QF's but were pipped by Dublin by one point in the Leinster semi. The famous McStay 'ah nooo ah nooo' commentary. Which he later apologised for on reflection.

Backdoor system:

Meath

beat Louth by a margin of 3 goals,

Kildare

walloped Laois,

Kildare a good win against meath by three points
Beat Derry in the next round.


All Ireland Championship

Kildare flop against Donegal by a point in the AI QF.

Meanwhile Dublin do a fortunate smash and grab v Kerry in the final.


Verdict: I would argue Kildare made no improvement on the previous year and would have been disappointed to lose against Donegal. Especially as Kildare had their u21's coming through from 2008 at this stage. Plus I would also argue that at this stage Kildare were in a stronger position than Meath. But it was not capitalised on.


--
--

2012

Leinster Championship


Meath

Beat Kildare by 6 points in SF and lose to Dublin by a goal in the final


Backdoor system

Meath

Shocked by Laois = flop

Kildare

Wallop Cavan, beat Limerick AET,


All Ireland Championship

Kildare beaten well by a strong Cork side in the QF.


Verdict: Meath flop. Kildare threading water unable to get their underage players to the next level. All the more frustrating for both counties considering Dublin were shocked by Mayo in the AI SF. The year that is arguably the start of Dublin's Golden Generation.

--
--

2013

The start of a period where Kildare dominate Leinster minor football contesting the final in all but one year between 2013 and 2019. And losing twice winning four times.


Senior Leinster Football Championship


It was a very much status quo year in this Leinster with no shocks among the top three.

Meath

beating Wicklow, Wexford and falling at the Dublin hurdle in the final by seven points

Kildare

Beating Offaly and falling at Dublin hurdle in the semi final


Backdoor system

Kildare

Comfortable v Louth, Lose to Tyrone by 3 points. Tyrone were at this stage not as formidable a side as they were in their heyday. Kildare again come away disappointed as the underage talent does not perform as expected. Although in fairness Tyrone had a minor crop bubbling under from 2010.


Meath

Pipped by Tyrone by 2 points in the qualifiers.

--
--

Verdict:

As Meath and Kildare were both beaten by the same Tyrone side it gives a good idea of their standard. Mediocre OK but no great shakes.

Both sides threading water at best no real improvement

Meanwhile, Dublin sneak Sam handed to them by Mayo ineptitude on the day,

--
--


2014

Leinster Senior Championship

No real shocks among the top three. Although. Meath beat Kildare very comfortably by 7 in the Leinster semi-final. What has happened Kildare's underage talent

Meath walloped by Dublin in the final.


Back door system

Kildare

barely beating Clare by one point (shaky at best a near flop at worst)
Then beaten by Ulster champs Monaghan AET by 2 points

Meath

Beaten comfortably by Armagh by 5 points


All Ireland Championship

Meanwhile, Dublin dethroned by combination of tactical mistakes by Jim Gavin on the side. And Jim McGuinness showing that a team can be greater than the sum of its part if you use a bit of guile and ingenuity.

Verdict Kildare fail again when on the cusp of victory failing to take it to the next level.Management, tactics or players?
You could not blame resources in this case and the Kildare u21 talent has been around for a while at this stage to give senior a go.

Monaghan beat Dublin well in the AI QF and was a good indicator of the gap between Kildare and Dublin at this point.

I would argue Meath flopped as they should have been well able for Armagh and they went backwards in their development.


--
--

2015

Leinster Senior Championship

Kildare

Wallop Laois after a replay in the QF's
Dublin wallop Kildare in the SF's

Meath


Flop v Westmeath biggest shock in the championship for a long time


Backdoor system

Meath

Beaten by Tyrone by 2 points decent enough showing on paper. But the way Tyrone play they just do enough to win games.

Kildare

Scrape by Offaly, wallop Longford, great win v a revamped Cork shorn of many of the 2010 AI winners,

All Ireland Championship

Kildare concede 7 goals v Kerry in the QF 7-16 to 0-10

When Dublin face Kerry in the AI final they win a dour game on dirty day by 3 points.


Verdict:

Meath gone backwards in development, Kildare one step forward beating Cork and four back getting walloped by Kerry.

Both Kildare and Meath look in trouble at this stage.

Dublin learning how to win ugly v the Kingdom - Kildare showing how to let the Kingdom run riot.


--
--

2016

Leinster Senior Football Championship

Kildare and Meath in disarray.

Kildare

Scraping by Wicklow in the QF's and losing v Westmeath in the SF

Meath

Beating Louth by 4 points in the QF, walloped by Dublin in the SF.


Backdoor system

Meath

Lose to Derry by 3 points

Kildare

Beat Offaly by 5 points
Well beaten by Mayo by 9 points


Verdict:

Meath a shambles at this stage. But a revamp was required

Kildare again unable to take things to the next level.
Unable to dominate weaker sides and getting dominated by stronger sides.
Management? Tactics?

Meanwhile Mayo gift Dublin an AI in a first game in particular they should and could have won.

--
--

2017

Leinster Senior Football Championship

Kildare

Wallop Laois, and win by 9 v Meath in SF

Meath

Prior to their Kildare defeat wallop Louth


Backdoor System

Meath

Scrape by Sligo by 2 points
Beaten by Donegal by the narrowest of margins

(However to put it in context Donegal were then hammered by Galway)


Kildare

Kildare beaten by 3 points by Armagh.



Verdict:

One step forwards two steps back for Kildare. Should they be losing to Armagh who were a div 3 team?
Plus Kildare were promoted from div2 to div 1 getting to the league final that year.
Management and tactics surely not resources?

Meath a div 2 team did well against Donegal who were a Div 1 side. However Galway winners of div 2 showed how Donegal could be dismantled in the championship. Signs of improvement for Meath in fairness did well in league as well unlucky not to be promoted.

Meanwhile Dublin pushed all the way by Mayo in final and sneak win. Also the year that Dublin win the last u21 final v Galway in Tullamore.

--
--

2018


Leinster football championship


The nothing to do with Dublin year!


Meath

Shocked by Longford in the Leinster QF by 2 points

Kildare


Shocked by Carlow in the QF by 7 points


Backdoor system

Kildare

Beat Derry by 8, Longford by 3, Mayo by 5 (Newbridge or Nowhere), Fermanagh by 11


Meath

Beaten by a point by Tyrone AET which was very good for a div 2 side. Plus when put in context that Tyrone reached the AI final Meath can consider themselves unlucky.


Super 8's

Kildare: Zero points beaten by Galway, Kerry and Monaghan


Verdict:

'Newbridge or Nowhere' has a tendency to overshadow Kildare's year.
As it was one of the few times they won against a side they were not supposed to beat.

Plus Kildare were fired up and showed some balls for a change. However, they could not even get one win the Super 8's not even a draw. Plus adding in Kildare's shock defeat by Carlow it paints a different picture.

I would say this was another one step forwards and two back by Kildare and their management team.

Meath I would say were unlucky to draw Tyrone, following their shock defeat against Longford it must have been hard to lift the team. I would put Meath's progress at a little better then threading water. A mixed bag inconsistency mixed with green shoots of hope.

Meanwhile Dublin put in a great performance of patience and precision against Tyrone to win Sam. But it must be said that Tryone made it easy for Dublin with the tactics they employed.


--
--

2019

Leinster football championship


Kildare


Snuck by Wicklow by 1 point
Taken to a replay by Longford winning by 11

Beaten by Dublin by 13 SF it was probably in or around 'the spread' which showed Dublin's dominance against former great Leinster sides.

Meath

Who had just being promoted to div 1 after a gap of 13 years would have went into this championship with renewed confidence.

Beat Offaly by 2, and wallop Carlow and Laois, annihilated by Dublin in the final by 16.


Backdoor system


Kildare

Beat Antrim well.

Beaten well by Tyrone 10 points margin (flop)


Meath


Beat Clare by 1 point (flop)


Super 8's

Meath the new Div 2 side fail to get a single point in a group containing Donegal, Mayo and Kerry.

A difficult group in fairness but Meath were walloped in all three games


Verdict:

Meath are just not that good a side barely made it to the Super 8's on the back of a 1 point win v Clare. Completely outclassed at the Super 8 stage.

Meath would also fail to win a game in the 2020 NFL to be relegated and rooted to the bottom. Although some argue they were unlucky.

Kildare again failed to make any decent progress outside Leinster. Struggling to beat week sides in Leinster.

It appears classing Kildare as a definite top 8 side cannot be said. This is shown by the fact that they are still in division 2 and if they ever do make the super 8's again are likely to be outclassed.

Meanwhile Kerry blew their chance of winning Sam in 2019 despite being a man up and ahead during the game at a crucial stage.

Scoundrel

2011 a flop??Lost by a point to the team that won the following years all Ireland and robbed by that bollocks Cormac Reilly against Dublin **** me like but your wikipedia search notwithstanding what is the point here? It clearly shows that before the emergence of the multi million Dubs Meath and Kildare and indeed Wexford ran Dublin close now its 20 points plus??

gormdubhgorm

Did you smash it wrote: »

Southampton is a far better ran club than Man Utd but Man utd finish further up the table. I wonder why.

There’s a lot of bull**** out there about the greatness of John Costello. Easy to run a profitable county board when multinationals are creaming themselves to offer you fat endorsement deals.

I just laugh at how people in the media buy into the nonsense at this stage.

What did Dublin do with all their superior facilities and resources from the period of 1984-1994?

Also from the period of 1996-2010

Dublin used to be a laughing stock by the rest of the country especially from 1996 to 2010. I won't forget that.

First game I ever witnessed Dublin not lose against Kerry was a draw in 2009 in a league game! It was celebrated like a victory.

I was never as happy as when Dublin won an u21 title for the first time in 2003. Even though the senior lads from Tyrone were hungover from their AI win a few weeks earlier.

Dublin did not even compete in u21 competitions for years. Lack of foresight by the DCB.

Only for people in the right positions the DCB would not have turned things around.
Because Dublin should be dominating before they were underachieving. Now Dublin's potential is being realised. Not only that the level of Gaelic Football has being raised to new heights.

Thanks to Tyrone, Donegal and now Dublin innovating. Thanks to Dublin Gaelic football has a whole new level of innovation and strategy.
Good managers can copy this as is seen with Managers like Banty, Mikey Graham and so on.

Outside of Dublin there is no way that Meath and Kildare should have let themselves go into doldrums. Struggling against Leinster sides that they should beat.

If population and resources are the sole argument. Why have Kildare and Meath lost to Westmeath, Carlow and Laois and Longford in recent history? Last 10 years.

Plus have never overachieved and used ingenuity to get there.

Carlow have done it, Tipp have done it, Cavan have done it, Monaghan have done it, Donegal have done it. Why can't Meath and Kildare? No clever/motivational managers?

Sitting there looking up at old pictures of Micko and Moylan are not going to improve teams.

gormdubhgorm

Scoundrel wrote: »

2011 a flop?? Lost by a point to the team that won the following years all Ireland and robbed by that bollocks Cormac Reilly against Dublin **** me like but your wikipedia search notwithstanding what is the point here? It clearly shows that before the emergence of the multi million Dubs Meath and Kildare and indeed Wexford ran Dublin close now its 20 points plus??

You missed the point completely Kildare and Meath have underachieved outside Leinster when give the chance time and time again.

Kildare and Meath have much better resources than many a county and failed to capitalise on it.

Plus not only that they live in close proximity to Dublin and some even play for Dublin clubs. Resources of Dublin seems like a handy excuse for Kildare and Meath in particular.

What about the resources of Longford, Carlow and Louth????

Yet Longford beat Meath in Leinster and their champs beat the Dublin champs.
I think a lot of the resources talk is to mask the shame of Meath and Kildare in a cover up of their own failings.

Meath now dependant on Ratoath to survive. And Kildare have wasted their talent at underage. Either through poor management and tactics and motivation.

gormdubhgorm

Scoundrel wrote: »

2011 a flop?? Lost by a point to the team that won the following years all Ireland and robbed by that bollocks Cormac Reilly against Dublin **** me like but your wikipedia search notwithstanding what is the point here? It clearly shows that before the emergence of the multi million Dubs Meath and Kildare and indeed Wexford ran Dublin close now its 20 points plus??

I would argue player for player at that time overall Kildare had a better squad in 2011 than Donegal. Donegal only won the AI through ingenuity in 2012 and making the best of what they had.

Kildare lacked ingenuity and decent management as simple at that. The talent was there from underage. Plus Kldare had old dogs like Johnny Doyle to lead them.

gormdubhgorm

Did you smash it wrote: »

I think you’ve been reading too many joe Brolly articles.

Intercounty is what attracts the crowds, the sponsorship and the tv deals.

People want to see jack mccaffrey play with diarmuid Connolly not with “some lad”

What you’re proposing could happen but there’s no evidence to support it.

Eventually it will get the sponsorship and crowds as people move away from inter county. The demise of the County Leinster football championship will be the start of it. TG4 get good viewing figures for the club championships. A bit of jazzing up, playing it in nicer weather and the crowds would come.

People would eventually get to know who some lad was.

All players were that some lad once.

A little bit of marketing and proper scheduling and I think it could easily over take the Leinster county scene.

Dublin club championship is of a fantastic standard and great entertainment. A scattering of inter county culchies as well among teams.

Did you smash it

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Eventually it will get the sponsorship and crowds as people move away from inter county. The demise of the County Leinster football championship will be the start of it. TG4 get good viewing figures for the club championships. A bit of jazzing up, playing it in nicer weather and the crowds would come.

People would eventually get to know who some lad was.

All players were that some lad once.

A little bit of marketing and proper scheduling and I think it could easily over take the Leinster county scene.

Dublin club championship is of a fantastic standard and great entertainment. A scattering of inter county culchies as well among teams.

A theory based on nothing.

kksaints

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Eventually it will get the sponsorship and crowds as people move away from inter county. The demise of the County Leinster football championship will be the start of it. TG4 get good viewing figures for the club championships. A bit of jazzing up, playing it in nicer weather and the crowds would come.

People would eventually get to know who some lad was.

All players were that some lad once.

A little bit of marketing and proper scheduling and I think it could easily over take the Leinster county scene.

Dublin club championship is of a fantastic standard and great entertainment. A scattering of inter county culchies as well among teams.

Will it though? Would intercounty sponsors really switch to club teams with much smaller supporter pools? Also would crowds really switch en masse to club action which although I personally enjoy going to matches often is of a far lower quality to inter county and would go to matches that do not involve their club.

gormdubhgorm

Did you smash it wrote: »

A theory based on nothing.

I would urge you to look at how league success is now an indicator for championship success.Before it was`only the league' the gaa evoles slowly- as will you.

Did you smash it

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I would urge you to look at how league success is now an indicator for championship success.Before it was`only the league' the gaa evoles slowly- as will you.

The GAA evolved slowly over 133 years and now you’re making the prediction that this evolution will be completely turned on its head and people will start flocking to club games to see local lads with low skill sets compared to the best county players.

Your theory makes no sense. Now is the time to rethink it rather than defend it.

gormdubhgorm

Did you smash it wrote: »

I think you’ve been reading too many joe Brolly articles.

Intercounty is what attracts the crowds, the sponsorship and the tv deals.

People want to see jack mccaffrey play with diarmuid Connolly not with “some lad”

What you’re proposing could happen but there’s no evidence to support it.

I don't read Brolly changes like the wind.A hypocrite.

Great scope in club game. Intercounty prov, archaic had thier day. Covid masked its problems this year.Intc league and club champ= future.

gormdubhgorm

Did you smash it wrote: »

The GAA evolved slowly over 133 years and now you’re making the prediction that this evolution will be completely turned on its head and people will start flocking to club games to see local lads with low skill sets compared to the best county players.

Your theory makes no sense. Now is the time to rethink it ratherhan defend it.

The best county lads all are members of clubs! I suggest you watch dub club champs. Plus in soccer do club fans only watch thier `intercty' = international stars ? No.

Maybe you don't follow club football in the gaa ? Massive potential marketing.

The Lost Sheep

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The best county lads all are members of clubs! I suggest you watch dub club champs. Plus in soccer do club fans only watch thier `intercty' = international stars? No.

Maybe you don't follow club football in the gaa? Massive potential marketing.

massive potential marketing to what level?
Numbers arent there to suggest club game will get anywhere near what youre suggesting

Did you smash it

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The best county lads all are members of clubs! I suggest you watch dub club champs. Plus in soccer do club fans only watch thier `intercty' = international stars ? No.

Maybe you don't follow club football in the gaa ? Massive potential marketing.

I’ve travelled home on planes to see my club in big matches as I live abroad. I love my club.

Your theory just has no basis in reality. People want to see the best players play together and play against each other.

The evolution of the game which is what you brought up and described as slow is after 133 years having brought us to the point where intercounty is more popular than club. Now you think that evolution will be suddenly turned on its head despite you describing the evolution as slow.

You have contradicted yourself and highlighted the nonsensical nature of your own theory.

I’d again urge you to examine your own theory for the holes you yourself have exposed in it rather than talking to me.

StupidLikeAFox

Leaving out other advantage like Croker, private sponsorship etc, I think its worth looking at the significant advantage handed to Dublin by the central organisation in terms of the development funding and the structure they put in place. The starting 15 on the Dublin team last week came from 10 different clubs. Each and every one of those clubs have a GAA subsidised, full-time officer employed by their club. Some of the bigger clubs have self-funded additional professional coaches and I think Ballyboden has a full time administrator to organise the logistics of training, matches etc for their huge membership.

It is no doubt required given the scale of these clubs, but these are the richest clubs, from the richest area in the country, and the GAA is handing out subsidies way over and above what other counties have available to them. For example, if my local club here somehow got the money together for half a GDOs salary (which would be impossible without the membership and sponsorship available to a club like Ballyboden) we still wouldn't be entitled to a semi-funded GDO as this is a Dublin only scheme, and part of the plan that central GAA put in place to save the GAA in Dublin

You end up in a scenario that the richest area is getting the most targeted support from the GAA HQ. Meanwhile smaller, less successful counties have 1 or 2 development officers per county. They are spreading their time between many clubs across a wide geographical area. So when you compare the 2 starting lineups from the Leinster final - which group of players do you think got the most contact time with full time, professional coaches?

Dublin and the GAA have no doubt created a great structure in the capital, but I think its about time they realised the same resources need to be expanded to counties that need it. Ive no idea how its even up for debate that the richest county should get the most targeted support in terms of both finance and coaching resources.

The Lost Sheep

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Leaving out other advantage like Croker, private sponsorship etc, I think its worth looking at the significant advantage handed to Dublin by the central organisation in terms of the development funding and the structure they put in place. The starting 15 on the Dublin team last week came from 10 different clubs. Each and every one of those clubs have a GAA subsidised, full-time officer employed by their club. Some of the bigger clubs have self-funded additional professional coaches and I think Ballyboden has a full time administrator to organise the logistics of training, matches etc for their huge membership.

It is no doubt required given the scale of these clubs, but these are the richest clubs, from the richest area in the country, and the GAA is handing out subsidies way over and above what other counties have available to them. For example, if my local club here somehow got the money together for half a GDOs salary (which would be impossible without the membership and sponsorship available to a club like Ballyboden) we still wouldn't be entitled to a semi-funded GDO as this is a Dublin only scheme, and part of the plan that central GAA put in place to save the GAA in Dublin

You end up in a scenario that the richest area is getting the most targeted support from the GAA HQ. Meanwhile smaller, less successful counties have 1 or 2 development officers per county. They are spreading their time between many clubs across a wide geographical area. So when you compare the 2 starting lineups from the Leinster final - which group of players do you think got the most contact time with full time, professional coaches?

Dublin and the GAA have no doubt created a great structure in the capital, but I think its about time they realised the same resources need to be expanded to counties that need it. Ive no idea how its even up for debate that the richest county should get the most targeted support in terms of both finance and coaching resources.

Whats there to stop clubs funding their own development officer with help from county board/GAA hq like there is a lot of the rugby clubs across the country who pay half the cost of their development officer with IRFU through the provinces paying the other half.

Where does it state anywhere its a dublin only scheme. Would smaller, less successful counties not be able to pay for additional development officers ontop of those already in place?

StupidLikeAFox

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

For example, if my local club here somehow got the money together for half a GDOs salary (which would be impossible without the membership and sponsorship available to a club like Ballyboden) we still wouldn't be entitled to a semi-funded GDO as this is a Dublin only scheme, and part of the plan that central GAA put in place to save the GAA in Dublin

And before anybody comes in with "but they are just for the childer" - yes, one part of their job is going to schools and increasing participation. The other part of their job is implementing professional coaching standards within the club right up through the underage structures of the club. There is a huge difference between a club in Dublin who has a full time professional monitoring their training sessions and schedules, and a club not in Dublin who are a bunch of volunteers that might see a GDO once every couple of weeks or months

StupidLikeAFox

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Whats there to stop clubs funding their own development officer with help from county board/GAA hq like there is a lot of the rugby clubs across the country who pay half the cost of their development officer with IRFU through the provinces paying the other half.

Where does it state anywhere its a dublin only scheme. Would smaller, less successful counties not be able to pay for additional development officers ontop of those already in place?

Its not available to other counties. They have initiated the "East Leinster Project" to try and roll it out in Kildare, Meath and I think Louth, but they have only been doing that in the past year. Fermanagh looked for funding for a GDO a few years ago and they were turned down.

Dublin GAA brought in €2.3m in commercial revenue in 2019, they had a €1m surplus. This is separate to the GDO funding. Other counties need to fundraise for anything they do, Dublin do not. They don't need the coaches or the subsidies as much as other counties. I wouldn't like to see Dublin hobbled - it would be much better to roll out this kind of structure to all counties, but its unlikely the GAA could afford that approach. If the resources are scarce they should not be concentrated on the richest, most successful county

Dickie10

so i think to most people the super club idea and finally going semi pro modelled on AFL in Australia is probably the most sense, remember Australia has only 25 million people and can keep pro sport going thats not a lot considering population of greater London is half that. Maybe the county teams could play a mini , squeezed All ireland every year over 6-7 weeks like the 6 nations in rugby. mid summer games , festivals of GAA like world cup or something. nobody really minds seeing New Zealand hammer Tonga 84-7 every four years but they wouldnt pay in to watch it week on week. I think county fans would stilll get their fix for the few games each summer when the club players return if they take the odd hiding so be it its not the big deal more a novelty build a whole social scene around it like international rugby, but club is the day to day GAA on TV each week.

The Lost Sheep

Dickie10 wrote: »

so i think to most people the super club idea and finally going semi pro modelled on AFL in Australia is probably the most sense, remember Australia has only 25 million people and can keep pro sport going thats not a lot considering population of greater London is half that. Maybe the county teams could play a mini , squeezed All ireland every year over 6-7 weeks like the 6 nations in rugby. mid summer games , festivals of GAA like world cup or something. nobody really minds seeing New Zealand hammer Tonga 84-7 every four years but they wouldnt pay in to watch it week on week. I think county fans would stilll get their fix for the few games each summer when the club players return if they take the odd hiding so be it its not the big deal more a novelty build a whole social scene around it like international rugby, but club is the day to day GAA on TV each week.

It doesnt at all make sense. County is only format for any form of semi pro event. So much about GAA is about identity and these sides you suggest have none of that.

StupidLikeAFox

ArielAtom wrote: »

Before you start talking bull**** about clubs and their resources, get your facts right.

Ballyboden employ a full-time director of coaching and a full time general manager

ArielAtom

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Ballyboden employ a full-time director of coaching and a full time general manager

Get your facts right.

Dickie10

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

It doesnt at all make sense. County is only format for any form of semi pro event. So much about GAA is about identity and these sides you suggest have none of that.

Leinster and Munster Rugby had zero identity Connacht still dosent. Its makey ,Uppey garbage, morketing people will sort it and you will have big ad campaigns

StupidLikeAFox

ArielAtom wrote: »

Get your facts right.

Lol what facts do I have wrong??

gormdubhgorm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

massive potential marketing to what level?
Numbers arent there to suggest club game will get anywhere near what youre suggesting

Top level.
Won't happen overnight.
But can already see the potential he the Dublin club championships.
Early group stages then knock out. Lots of high quality games. Different styles of teams some packed with 'national' 'Intercounty' stars others with a few. Games that are competitive for the most part.

High quality football much better than a lot of the Leinster Intercounty stuff.

Club football has endless scope to develop as a product. Once the provincial inter county dies as competitions and makes space for club championships can get more spotlight and space.


Intercounty League and championship should merge no provincials.
Problem solved.

gormdubhgorm

Did you smash it wrote: »

I’ve travelled home on planes to see my club in big matches as I live abroad. I love my club.

Your theory just has no basis in reality. People want to see the best players play together and play against each other.

The evolution of the game which is what you brought up and described as slow is after 133 years having brought us to the point where intercounty is more popular than club. Now you think that evolution will be suddenly turned on its head despite you describing the evolution as slow.

You have contradicted yourself and highlighted the nonsensical nature of your own theory.

I’d again urge you to examine your own theory for the holes you yourself have exposed in it rather than talking to me.

I didn't say get rid of intercounty just intercounty provisionals championship freeing up space for a proper run a t club stuff marketing etc.

Bar not being able to go to games was the best Dublin club championship for ages. As could get a clear run no stop start stuff for intercounty.

Scrapping the intercounty Provisionals would allow space on the fixture list.

Plus a merging of the League as the championship AI much better idea. And free up fixture space.
Teams playing at same levels in divisions much fairer more competitve

The Lost Sheep

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Top level.
Won't happen overnight.
But can already see the potential he the Dublin club championships.
Early group stages then knock out. Lots of high quality games. Different styles of teams some packed with 'national' 'Intercounty' stars others with a few. Games that are competitive for the most part.

High quality football much better than a lot of the Leinster Intercounty stuff.

Club football has endless scope to develop as a product. Once the provincial inter county dies as competitions and makes space for club championships can get more spotlight and space.

Intercounty League and championship should merge no provincials.
Problem solved.

Top level means what though?
The potential isnt there for club football to expand substantially above what its currently at.
Inter county league and championship shouldnt merge but a primarily league based competition should be main event of year.

Hammer Archer

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

What did Dublin do with all their superior facilities and resources from the period of 1984-1994?

Won 6 provincial titles (most of any Leinster team in that period) and reached 4 All Ireland finals. This period was bookended by All Ireland championships.

Also from the period of 1996-2010

Again, won 6 provincial titles (most of any Leinster team in that period) and reached two All Ireland semi finals, losing by a point to the eventual champions each time. Again, period was bookended by All Ireland championships.
I have to laugh at Dublin fans lamenting their "barren" years above. It just goes to show how spoiled for success Dublin have been over the years. The years above would be considered an immensely successful period for pretty much every county except Kerry.

Sitting there looking up at old pictures of Micko and Moylan are not going to improve teams.

With all due respect, your posts show a distinct lack of knowledge of Meath and Kildare football. It's Boylan, not Moylan.

Meath are just not that good a side barely made it to the Super 8's on the back of a 1 point win v Clare. Completely outclassed at the Super 8 stage.

You didn't watch any of Meath's games in the super 8's, did you? Against Donegal in Ballybofey, we actually led with 15 minutes to go only for us to run out of gas. Similarly against Mayo, we were 2 up well into the second half and it was a draw game with 15 to go. Against Kerry, we we within striking distance for much of the second half with Kerry only shaking us off in the last 15 minutes again.

Plus not only that they live in close proximity to Dublin and some even play for Dublin clubs. Resources of Dublin seems like a handy excuse for Kildare and Meath in particular.

What does close proximity to Dublin have to do with anything? If anything, it's an advantage for Dublin as you've had many Dublin players live in Kildare and Meath yet still be able to travel and play for their old clubs and/or Dublin. To my knowledge, zero current Meath or Kildare players play for Dublin clubs. In recent years, you've had Darren Daly play for Dublin while living in Meath, similarly with Mick Deegan at underage and the former Dublin U21 keeper living and playing in Kildare.

You mentioned us losing to Longford a few years ago which was a poor result but we were seconds away from beating Tyrone in the qualifiers in the next game (Tyrone brought it to extra time with a pointed free with the last kick of the game). Tyrone went on to the All Ireland final that year.

Meath now dependant on Ratoath to survive. And Kildare have wasted their talent at underage. Either through poor management and tactics and motivation.

I'm a Ratoath man originally and I've literally no idea what you're on about here.
And it's very difficult to motivate young players to train 5 times a week and put their lives on hold when they see the runaway behemoth that is Dublin at senior level. Most would rather play for their club, travel and have a life.

ArielAtom

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Lol what facts do I have wrong??

The one where you tell untruths.