Medical Cannabis for Ava Twomey - Deliver it.

Gruffalux

What a stupid thing that the government are telling Vera Twomey, Ava's mother, that after this lockdown is lifted she or her husband will have to travel every 12 weeks to the Netherlands to get Ava's cannabis. They would be putting themselves at far greater risk of contracting Covid 19 by traveling, and it would be terrible for Ava to catch it. The government have managed to import and deliver Ava's medical cannabis since March but now they want the parents to do it...Really Stupid.

https://twitter.com/_BenFinnegan/status/1331114250102824961?s=20


Stephen Donnelly is wondering what's up, Vera? How can I help? :rolleyes: Come on for goodness sake, don't be stupid.

https://twitter.com/veras1/status/1331176523177537542?s=20

flazio

Just to clarify. Is CBD oil this legal cannabis that everyone is mulling over?

McGinniesta

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan

Gruffalux

flazio wrote: »

Just to clarify. Is CBD oil this legal cannabis that everyone is mulling over?

It is medicinal cannabis oil for Dravet's syndrome which Ava has - a severe form of epilepsy. The oil Ava uses contains THC.

There are other people in the country in the same predicament. About 40 according to Twomey.

Cordell

CBD oil is extracted from hemp, not from the strains which are colloquially called weed. Also, it does nothing.

suicide_circus

Full access to medical cannabis and decriminalisation of recreational cannabis NOW.

Gruffalux

Cordell wrote: »

CBD oil is extracted from hemp, not from the strains which are colloquially called weed. Also, it does nothing.

As far as I an aware the type of oil Ava benefits from contains THC which is psychoactive. She has written that her child's medicine regime includes the THC component. It has been extremely beneficial for her condition - her mother says it has saved her life.

In recent years, a series of clinical trials on a CBD treatment called Epidiolex have shown promising results in reducing seizures in children with rare and severe epilepsies such as Dravet syndrome and Lennox-Gastaut syndrome (link 1; link 2; link 3).

In June 2018, Epidiolex received approval from the US FDA for use in these epilepsies. The drug is currently being reviewed in Europe by the European Medicines Agency and is expected to be approved in 2019 or early 2020.

https://www.epilepsy.ie/content/medical-cannabis

biko

I'll go get it for them. A trip to Holland every few weeks would be nice.

Gruffalux

biko wrote: »

I'll go get it for them. A trip to Holland every few weeks would be nice.

That would be good of you. Every 12 weeks is what they used to do before Covid. Then the govt stepped in to import and deliver. I am guessing they don't want to continue that as it would be de facto recognition of, or establishment by custom of - not quite a right, but some kind of prerogative - to medical cannabis and they would have to then supply others. It is all just so stupid at this stage.

Thelonious Monk

It's easy enough to buy all sorts from the dark web, normal cannabis and other drugs anyway

suicide_circus

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's easy enough to buy all sorts from the dark web, normal cannabis and other drugs anyway

Well quite but a 10 year old girl for whom cannabis is the answer to her severe seizures shouldnt have to do that!

amadangomor

McGinniesta wrote: »

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan

Great contribution duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude :rolleyes:

amadangomor

suicide_circus wrote: »

Full access to medical cannabis and decriminalisation of recreational cannabis NOW.

Agree totally but strong regulation with this please. Make sure no one under 18 gets it and the strains with crazy strong THC to be still banned.

amadangomor

biko wrote: »

I'll go get it for them. A trip to Holland every few weeks would be nice.

Pity someone here can't grow the medical strain they need under license for them.

If someone can get a license to use it they should be providing licenses to produce it within the state.

Cordell

The girl needs the medical grade extract, you can't expect her to smoke/inhale/eat the home grown stuff. She needs to get better, not high.
I do support legalization, but this is not a case for it.

One eyed Jack

Gruffalux wrote: »

That would be good of you. Every 12 weeks is what they used to do before Covid. Then the govt stepped in to import and deliver. I am guessing they don't want to continue that as it would be de facto recognition of, or establishment by custom of - not quite a right, but some kind of prerogative - to medical cannabis and they would have to then supply others. It is all just so stupid at this stage.

That’s part of it alright, and there’s also this conflation -

suicide_circus wrote: »

Full access to medical cannabis and decriminalisation of recreational cannabis NOW.

And the fact that claims of it’s efficacy are not supported by scientific evidence -


A report by the Health Protection Regulatory Authority (HPRA) in February 2017 found a lack of scientific data to demonstrate the robust effectiveness of any form of medicinal cannabis. It stated that there was "At best, a moderate benefit for cannabis in a small number of conditions and conflicting evidence, or no evidence at all, in a large number of other medical conditions. The effectiveness and safety of cannabis in large numbers of medical conditions is simply not proven." In addition, "The HPRA considers that there is not currently evidence that cannabinoids are an effective treatment in epilepsy.


Plus the unknown long term effects on brain development of it’s use.

It creates not just a significant ethical dilemma for Government because there are children involved, quite apart from any consideration of whether it would be economically viable or would the Government be put over a barrel again as they were for the provision of Orkambi -


One year on: Has Orkambi improved CF patients’ lives?

Gruffalux

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That’s part of it alright, and there’s also this conflation -





And the fact that claims of it’s efficacy are not supported by scientific evidence -


A report by the Health Protection Regulatory Authority (HPRA) in February 2017 found a lack of scientific data to demonstrate the robust effectiveness of any form of medicinal cannabis. It stated that there was "At best, a moderate benefit for cannabis in a small number of conditions and conflicting evidence, or no evidence at all, in a large number of other medical conditions. The effectiveness and safety of cannabis in large numbers of medical conditions is simply not proven." In addition, "The HPRA considers that there is not currently evidence that cannabinoids are an effective treatment in epilepsy.


Plus the unknown long term effects on brain development of it’s use.

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I do not mind the conflation with recreational cannabis. Personally I cannot even handle caffeine and take no drugs, not even tea, but if alcohol can be freely enjoyed I do not see why people who prefer cannabis should not have ordinary regulated access to it as adults have to alcohol. They should just legalise it altogether and also provide excellent medical grade products to people like Ava.

As for the efficacy of the medical cannabis for Ava it seems to have really helped the child. Dravet's syndrome is horrible and if her number of daily seizures have lessened that is worthwhile. A lot of pharmaceuticals produced by medical companies have severe side effects and long term issues. I would also not be surprised if there is a pharmaceutical lobby to undermine medical cannabis.

One eyed Jack

Gruffalux wrote: »

I do not mind the conflation with recreational cannabis. Personally I cannot even handle caffeine and take no drugs, not even tea, but if alcohol can be freely enjoyed I do not see why people who prefer cannabis should not have ordinary regulated access to it as adults have to alcohol. They should just legalise it altogether and also provide excellent medical grade products to people like Ava.

As for the efficacy of the medical cannabis for Ava it seems to have really helped the child. Dravet's syndrome is horrible and if her number of daily seizures have lessened that is worthwhile. A lot of pharmaceuticals produced by medical companies have severe side effects and long term issues. I would also not be surprised if there is a pharmaceutical lobby to undermine medical cannabis.

I think medicinal and recreational should be kept separate. The conflation of cannabis for recreational purposes is precisely what makes arguments for it’s medicinal use suspicious - the underlying primary motivation being decriminalisation of cannabis for recreational purposes.

What you’re suggesting just isn’t economically viable. Government don’t want a repeat of the Orkambi fiasco where a tugging of the public’s heartstrings meant the public were fleeced to the tune of €400m over five years for a drug that it turned out didn’t live up to it’s marketing hype - it wasn’t the wonder drug it was claimed to be, same as the drugs being marketed as treatments to alleviate the effects of very specific forms of epilepsy.

It’s regulation btw is putting pharmaceutical companies off exploring investing in cannabis for medicinal purposes. They’re aware they stand to make a fortune by being able to control the supply to market, as they do with many other types of drugs -


Exclusive: One Of The Largest Pharma Companies In The World Has Made A Big Move In Cannabis

Gruffalux

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I think medicinal and recreational should be kept separate. The conflation of cannabis for recreational purposes is precisely what makes arguments for it’s medicinal use suspicious - the underlying primary motivation being decriminalisation of cannabis for recreational purposes.

.

Suspicious of what? Reefer madness?
Just make available medical and non-medical use.

kildare lad

Gruffalux wrote: »

It is medicinal cannabis oil for Dravet's syndrome which Ava has - a severe form of epilepsy. The oil Ava uses contains THC.

There are other people in the country in the same predicament. About 40 according to Twomey.

It would be a lot more beneficial to more than 40 people here. I've crohn's disease and when I'm very sick , I can't eat , I've trouble sleeping, severe stomach cramps and go to the toilet 20 plus times a day passing blood . I used to smoke a joint and it's help with the pain, help me sleep and give me an appetite. I'd rather take the oil though if I could get it as you don't know what in half the weed you buy here. The medication I got off the doctors nearly drove me insane with insomnia.

I don't see what the governments problem is regarding medical marijuana. It should be legal to anyone who has serious medical conditions .

One eyed Jack

Gruffalux wrote: »

Suspicious of what? Reefer madness?
Just make available medical and non-medical use.

Suspicious of arguments for it’s medicinal use being used to covertly attempt to argue it’s decriminalisation for recreational use. They’re two very different issues.

Gruffalux

kildare lad wrote: »

It would be a lot more beneficial to more than 40 people here. I've crohn's disease and when I'm very sick , I can't eat , I've trouble sleeping, severe stomach cramps and go to the toilet 20 plus times a day passing blood . I used to smoke a joint and it's help with the pain, help me sleep and give me an appetite. I'd rather take the oil though if I could get it as you don't know what in half the weed you buy here. The medication I got off the doctors nearly drove me insane with insomnia.

I don't see what the governments problem is regarding medical marijuana. It should be legal to anyone who has serious medical conditions .

That's terrible. I imagine good oil would be better.
It should be legal for medical purposes and for non medical purposes. Some people don't like the drugs the government says are legal. If I take any alcohol I go bright red immediately - apparently it is a faulty ALDH2 gene. Yay me!

Gruffalux

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Suspicious of arguments for it’s medicinal use being used to covertly attempt to argue it’s decriminalisation for recreational use. They’re two very different issues.

It is not covert. I am saying openly legalise and regulate all uses. The medical issue brings the stupidity of present regulation into clear focus.

jimmycrackcorm

kildare lad wrote: »

It would be a lot more beneficial to more than 40 people here. I've crohn's disease and when I'm very sick , I can't eat , I've trouble sleeping, severe stomach cramps and go to the toilet 20 plus times a day passing blood . I used to smoke a joint and it's help with the pain, help me sleep and give me an appetite. I'd rather take the oil though if I could get it as you don't know what in half the weed you buy here. The medication I got off the doctors nearly drove me insane with insomnia.

I don't see what the governments problem is regarding medical marijuana. It should be legal for anyone who has serious medical conditions.

If drug addicts can get prescribed methadone then I don't see what the problem is regarding medicinal cannabis. I don't know what the objections are within the existing health system provisions for drugs.

As for recreational use, I'm not in favour of adding more drug drivers to the existing set of drunk ones. Also, given the campaigns in recent decades to get people to quit smoking, It doesn't make sense to introduce cannabis leaf.

One eyed Jack

Gruffalux wrote: »

It is not covert. I am saying openly legalise and regulate all uses. The medical issue brings the stupidity of present regulation into clear focus.

Then the argument has nothing to do with decriminalisation of cannabis for medicinal purposes, it’s entirely about decriminalisation of cannabis for recreational purposes. I would support the former, I don’t support the latter.

Gruffalux

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Then the argument has nothing to do with decriminalisation of cannabis for medicinal purposes, it’s entirely about decriminalisation of cannabis for recreational purposes. I would support the former, I don’t support the latter.

When you write ''then'' it does not make everything or anything you write afterwards automatically true, although that is how it is framed.
But, grand job, I have got your opinion on the matter now.

Gruffalux

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

If drug addicts can get prescribed methadone then I don't see what the problem is regarding medicinal cannabis. I don't know what the objections are within the existing health system provisions for drugs.

As for recreational use, I'm not in favour of adding more drug drivers to the existing set of drunk ones. Also, given the campaigns in recent decades to get people to quit smoking, It doesn't make sense to introduce cannabis leaf.

Do you think there is no drug driving now? There is loads of it. Not to mention the drivers hopped up to the eyeballs on anxiolytics and other legal meds.
Regulation would have to include drug driving testing just like for alcohol.

One eyed Jack

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

If drug addicts can get prescribed methadone then I don't see what the problem is regarding medicinal cannabis. I don't know what the objections are within the existing health system provisions for drugs.

They’re different drugs for a start, neither are ideal, but the goal in either case is harm reduction. Methodone use has plenty of evidence of it’s efficacy in harm reduction. Cannabis, not so much -

Twenty years of the methadone treatment protocol in Ireland: reflections on the role of general practice

kildare lad

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

If drug addicts can get prescribed methadone then I don't see what the problem is regarding medicinal cannabis. I don't know what the objections are within the existing health system provisions for drugs.

As for recreational use, I'm not in favour of adding more drug drivers to the existing set of drunk ones. Also, given the campaigns in recent decades to get people to quit smoking, It doesn't make sense to introduce cannabis leaf.

I'd say big pharma have a big say in what gets legalised . The thing is you cant patent a plant , so they can't make money of it unless they synthesis it . There a drug I take and the company makes 2 billion a year off that one drug , could you imagine how much money they lose if there was a cure or if medical marijuana done most of the things the drug done. I'm not saying medical marijuana is the answer in a lot of cases but in some cases it is . I'd rather take a plant oils than a pill. But the option isn't there Lots of medications have side affects aswell. I'm currently changing my medication as I've been on it 6 years and I've a higher chance of getting lymphoma , and I can't be out in the sun for too long as it increase the chances of getting skin cancer, I've to get bloods done ever two months to see what my white blood count is like, and that's not from the disease that's from the medication I'm taking

TomTomTim

kildare lad wrote: »

It would be a lot more beneficial to more than 40 people here. I've crohn's disease and when I'm very sick , I can't eat , I've trouble sleeping, severe stomach cramps and go to the toilet 20 plus times a day passing blood . I used to smoke a joint and it's help with the pain, help me sleep and give me an appetite. I'd rather take the oil though if I could get it as you don't know what in half the weed you buy here. The medication I got off the doctors nearly drove me insane with insomnia.

I don't see what the governments problem is regarding medical marijuana. It should be legal to anyone who has serious medical conditions .

Ireland is an uber progressive country, something I'm no fan of, yet the only progressive thing I desire is weed legislation, yet it's not even on the table. Gay rights, feminism, abortion, all but open borders, yet I can't even smoke a joint legally.

One eyed Jack

Gruffalux wrote: »

When you write ''then'' it does not make everything or anything you write afterwards automatically true, although that is how it is framed.
But, grand job, I have got your opinion on the matter now.

I know it doesn’t make it true, the point is that I’m suspicious of arguments for medicinal use being used as a cover for arguing for it’s recreational use. You started the thread by giving an example of the circumstances of a young girl with epilepsy.

We’re both aware of the reasons why you didn’t start a thread using Ming Flanagan as an example in spite of the fact that he’s been campaigning for decriminalisation of cannabis for decades, and he almost looks respectable in his Louis Copeland designed hemp suit -


Luke 'Ming' Flanagan wears hemp suit in the Dáil