Medical Cannabis for Ava Twomey - Deliver it.

drunkmonkey

Why doesn't she just go to the Athlone mail center they've been stockpiling it all lockdown.

gctest50

One eyed Jack wrote: »

............

Methodone use has plenty of evidence of it’s efficacy in harm reduction.

.......

If you count death as harm reduction


"The Health Research Board found that 113 methadone users died of an overdose  in 2011, almost double the number of heroin users. "

From here :

https://www.thejournal.ie/methadone-heroin-deaths-1281196-Jan2014/

.

gctest50

To add to that is the huge CPA ( Cost-per-Addict)

"But in 2009, as the country was in the grip of financial crisis and mass emigration, a massive €277m was required to treat drug addicts."

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/revealed-cost-of-drugs-crisis-has-been-1bn-over-past-five-years-34179535.html

emo72

Never had drugs myself, but it's beyond me how we are not growing fields of the stuff. We could have a huge homegrown industry of marijuana. Same with fish. Huge industry if we kept our waters to ourselves.

It's almost as if someone doesn't want us to be self sufficient. Keep us dependant on foreign corporations, like pharma! This is ludicrous.

rapul

Terrible that a little girl might suffer when it's all over a plant that should be decriminalised anyway. Her parents should look into ordering off the dark net as already mentioned, I'd chip in.

One eyed Jack

gctest50 wrote: »

If you count death as harm reduction


"The Health Research Board found that 113 methadone users died of an overdose  in 2011, almost double the number of heroin users. "

From here :

https://www.thejournal.ie/methadone-heroin-deaths-1281196-Jan2014/

.

The headline on the article is misleading. The increased incidence of deaths were among poly substance users, as opposed to deaths which were specifically attributable to methodone use. It’s a trend that’s only increasing in Irish society, so decriminalisation of cannabis would only exacerbate an existing issue.

Just taking the numbers from one specific year isn’t going to tell anyone anything about trends -


The overall number of cases treated for problem opiate use (mainly heroin) increased between 2006 and 2015. Most recent trends indicate a concerning shift toward greater levels of poly substance use with related treatment demand (i.e. benzodiazepines) since 2007, dependence rates on over the counter and prescribed opiates such as codeine since 2008, increase in drug related deaths and the emergence of potent and potentially fatal synthetic fentanyls in 2018. Treatment data in 2013 reports that incidence of treated problem substance use among Travellers is three times that compared to the general population (523 per hundred versus 173 per 100,000), with reports in 2017 indicating increased vulnerability of this ethnic minority to problem opiate use. In 2016, the Health Protection Surveillance Centre reported that the rate of infectious diseases (human immune deficiency virus, (HIV) and hepatitis C (HCV) is declining among people who inject drugs (PWID), despite an increase in 2015 due to a reported HIV outbreak.

gctest50

One eyed Jack wrote: »

...........so decriminalisation of cannabis would only exacerbate an existing issue.

Any evidence to back that statement up ?

One eyed Jack

gctest50 wrote: »

Any evidence to back that statement up ?

Yes, it’s reasonable to conclude that decriminalisation increases drug use for recreational purposes, and evidence from existing trends suggests that mixing drugs is becoming more common among users, so making cannabis more available to them exacerbates issues which exist already.

Glurrl

Has she tried smoking banana skins?

rapul

Glurrl wrote: »

Has she tried smoking banana skins?

Have you?

gctest50

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Yes, it’s reasonable to conclude that decriminalisation increases drug use for recreational purposes, ............

That's an opinion or some breed of a notion - not evidence

Just cos ya put a poat boards doesn't make it magically true - it might be true or maybe not

jimmycrackcorm

Gruffalux wrote: »

Do you think there is no drug driving now? There is loads of it. Not to mention the drivers hopped up to the eyeballs on anxiolytics and other legal meds.
Regulation would have to include drug driving testing just like for alcohol.

Whatever is out there now, would be multiplied if weed was legalised. It's like saying we should get rid of road speed limits because everyone is speeding anyway.

kildare lad wrote: »

I'd say big pharma have a big say in what gets legalised . The thing is you cant patent a plant , so they can't make money of it unless they synthesis it . There a drug I take and the company makes 2 billion a year off that one drug , could you imagine how much money they lose if there was a cure or if medical marijuana done most of the things the drug done. I'm not saying medical marijuana is the answer in a lot of cases but in some cases it is . I'd rather take a plant oils than a pill. But the option isn't there Lots of medications have side affects aswell. I'm currently changing my medication as I've been on it 6 years and I've a higher chance of getting lymphoma , and I can't be out in the sun for too long as it increase the chances of getting skin cancer, I've to get bloods done ever two months to see what my white blood count is like, and that's not from the disease that's from the medication I'm taking

I don't think there is any evidence that the introduction of medical marijuana is being blocked by big pharma. In fact, they'd still want to process it and package it and make an easy profit. Regulation would suit them.

TomTomTim wrote: »

Ireland is an uber progressive country, something I'm no fan of, yet the only progressive thing I desire is weed legislation, yet it's not even on the table. Gay rights, feminism, abortion, all but open borders, yet I can't even smoke a joint legally.

gctest50 wrote: »

If you count death as harm reduction


"The Health Research Board found that 113 methadone users died of an overdose  in 2011, almost double the number of heroin users. "

From here :

https://www.thejournal.ie/methadone-heroin-deaths-1281196-Jan2014/

.

I have a strong feeling that those 113 methadone users would have died for Heroin instead had they not been able to get Methadone...

One eyed Jack

gctest50 wrote: »

That's an opinion or some breed of a notion - not evidence

Just cos ya put a poat boards doesn't make it magically true - it might be true or maybe not

You asked me for evidence to back up my opinion, I provided it by showing that we can draw reasonable conclusions from looking at trends in Irish society in relation to how drugs are abused already among specific groups within the population, and even from the article you linked to in the Independent where there is also data provided focusing on specific groups within Irish society -


The figures show that the HSE spent €651m over the five years to 2013 and the Department of Health a further €169m. The total expenditure over the five years to 2013 was €1.224bn. The report says there has been an increase in expenditure over 2014 but no figure is supplied.

Detail in the report states that Merchants Quay Ireland (MQI), a national voluntary agency providing services for homeless people and for drug users in Dublin, "reported that in 2012 there were 22,475 visits to its Drug Services and 20,847 needle exchanges, with 3,639 individuals using the services, 558 of whom were new clients".

It also refers to a study of drug use in Irish prisons published in 2014 which reported that "the drugs most commonly used by the prison population were cannabis, cocaine powder and benzodiazepines."

...

Oral fluid testing for drug use in the previous 24 to 72 hours showed 4pc had used cannabis, 13pc methadone and 11pc benzodiazepines.

More an 200 prisoners said they were "doing heroin now". Among these current users, 75pc reported smoking heroin as their only method of choice, with 13pc reporting injecting and 1pc snorting as their only method.

Disturbingly, it also reports high rates of drug use among Irish teenagers, higher than in other EU states. It refers to an Irish study on "non-medical use of psychotropic prescription drugs among adolescents (aged 13 to 18 years)". It says: "The most common medication used without a prescription was sedative/anxiolytics (62pc), followed by sleeping (hypnotic) medication (43pc). The paper concluded that non-medical use of prescription drugs is commonplace among adolescents who abuse illicit drugs and that they typically use these prescription drugs for hedonic reasons."

...

The report also highlights a previously unreported huge rise in drug addiction in the Traveller community.

It states: "The number of cases among the Traveller community seeking treatment for problem drug and alcohol use increased by 163pc between 2007 and 2010.

"However, this number is likely to be under-estimated. Alcohol was the most common problem substance, while the number seeking treatment for opiates increased by 291pc.

"Traveller women reported high rates of problem opiate use and injecting behaviours. The findings present a major cultural issue and challenge to Traveller health services and, given the high level of sharing, this has implications for the delivery of needle exchange services."


Personally, I can’t say I give a fiddlers fcuk about Tarquin the webel having a sneaky toke in the conservatory, or the sweet old lady next door who uses cannabis for a placebo, or anyone else who chooses to indulge every so often to chill out and socialise, whatever, they’re unlikely to end up dead or in prison or in hospital. I give a fcuk about the people mentioned above who you’d prefer to overlook as they’re an inconvenience to the decriminalisation Utopian ideal which offers no benefit to Irish society whatsoever.

Glurrl

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You asked me for evidence to back up my opinion, I provided it by showing that we can draw reasonable conclusions from looking at trends in Irish society in relation to how drugs are abused already among specific groups within the population, and even from the article you linked to in the Independent where there is also data provided focusing on specific groups within Irish society -


The figures show that the HSE spent €651m over the five years to 2013 and the Department of Health a further €169m. The total expenditure over the five years to 2013 was €1.224bn. The report says there has been an increase in expenditure over 2014 but no figure is supplied.

Detail in the report states that Merchants Quay Ireland (MQI), a national voluntary agency providing services for homeless people and for drug users in Dublin, "reported that in 2012 there were 22,475 visits to its Drug Services and 20,847 needle exchanges, with 3,639 individuals using the services, 558 of whom were new clients".

It also refers to a study of drug use in Irish prisons published in 2014 which reported that "the drugs most commonly used by the prison population were cannabis, cocaine powder and benzodiazepines."

...

Oral fluid testing for drug use in the previous 24 to 72 hours showed 4pc had used cannabis, 13pc methadone and 11pc benzodiazepines.

More an 200 prisoners said they were "doing heroin now". Among these current users, 75pc reported smoking heroin as their only method of choice, with 13pc reporting injecting and 1pc snorting as their only method.

Disturbingly, it also reports high rates of drug use among Irish teenagers, higher than in other EU states. It refers to an Irish study on "non-medical use of psychotropic prescription drugs among adolescents (aged 13 to 18 years)". It says: "The most common medication used without a prescription was sedative/anxiolytics (62pc), followed by sleeping (hypnotic) medication (43pc). The paper concluded that non-medical use of prescription drugs is commonplace among adolescents who abuse illicit drugs and that they typically use these prescription drugs for hedonic reasons."

...

The report also highlights a previously unreported huge rise in drug addiction in the Traveller community.

It states: "The number of cases among the Traveller community seeking treatment for problem drug and alcohol use increased by 163pc between 2007 and 2010.

"However, this number is likely to be under-estimated. Alcohol was the most common problem substance, while the number seeking treatment for opiates increased by 291pc.

"Traveller women reported high rates of problem opiate use and injecting behaviours. The findings present a major cultural issue and challenge to Traveller health services and, given the high level of sharing, this has implications for the delivery of needle exchange services."


Personally, I can’t say I give a fiddlers fcuk about Tarquin the webel having a sneaky toke in the conservatory, or the sweet old lady next door who uses cannabis for a placebo, or anyone else who chooses to imbibe every so often to chill out and socialise, whatever, they’re unlikely to end up dead or in prison or in hospital. I give a fcuk about the people mentioned above who you’d prefer to overlook as they’re an inconvenience to the decriminalisation Utopian ideal which offers no benefit to Irish society whatsoever.

These are people who already use drugs. Why prioritise a prisoner who is already a drug addict over a child with a medical illness who wants to follow the law the best she can?

Solutionking

emo72 wrote: »

Never had drugs myself, but it's beyond me how we are not growing fields of the stuff. We could have a huge homegrown industry of marijuana. Same with fish. Huge industry if we kept our waters to ourselves.

It's almost as if someone doesn't want us to be self sufficient. Keep us dependant on foreign corporations, like pharma! This is ludicrous.

Marijuana needs heat to grow, not the pissing raining and cold. Plus it is illegal. Two very good reasons why we don't have fields of it.

Fish?

One eyed Jack

Glurrl wrote: »

These are people who already use drugs. Why prioritise a prisoner who is already a drug addict over a child with a medical illness who wants to follow the law the best she can?

I don’t know, you’ll have to tell me because I didn’t draw any such equivalence?

I’ve been quite explicit in saying that arguments for regulation of cannabis for medicinal use are completely separate from arguments for decriminalisation of cannabis for recreational use -

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Then the argument has nothing to do with decriminalisation of cannabis for medicinal purposes, it’s entirely about decriminalisation of cannabis for recreational purposes. I would support the former, I don’t support the latter.

Glurrl

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I don’t know, you’ll have to tell me because I didn’t draw any such equivalence?

I’ve been quite explicit in saying that arguments for regulation of cannabis for medicinal use are completely separate from arguments for decriminalisation of cannabis for recreational use -

I havent read all your posts and as it's a thread about medicinal use its ironically not that explicit.

Prisoners. How many were given a criminal record as a teenager for cannibas offences that fuelled thier path to prison? How many are in prison for cannibas offences and found harder drugs in there?

Teenagers, used as pawns by drugs gangs to do thier bidding, that lad in drogheda that got chopped up was 17.

Traveller women, there a broader issues in thier culture that if perhaps were addressed might lessen thier need to rely on drugs


Why make criminals out of all the people who are most vulnerable and make millionaires out of dealers on the black market?

How are you helping or protecting these people. They already have access to the drugs and underfunded support services. What's the benefit in having it as a black market?

One eyed Jack

Glurrl wrote: »

I havent read all your posts and as it's a thread about medicinal use its ironically not that explicit.

I can’t say I blame you for the confusion, but no, the thread isn’t solely about medicinal use. The OP used the example they did as a jumping off point, and only later did it become clear that they were also referring to decriminalisation for recreational use -

Gruffalux wrote: »

It is not covert. I am saying openly legalise and regulate all uses. The medical issue brings the stupidity of present regulation into clear focus.

Glurrl wrote: »

Prisoners. How many were given a criminal record as a teenager for cannibas offences that fuelled thier path to prison? How many are in prison for cannibas offences and found harder drugs in there?

Teenagers, used as pawns by drugs gangs to do thier bidding, that lad in drogheda that got chopped up was 17.

Traveller women, there a broader issues in thier culture that if perhaps were addressed might lessen thier need to rely on drugs

Why make criminals out of all the people who are most vulnerable and make millionaires out of dealers on the black market?

How are you helping or protecting these people. They already have access to the drugs and underfunded support services. What's the benefit in having it as a black market?

Five minutes ago you were asking this -

Glurrl wrote: »

These are people who already use drugs. Why prioritise a prisoner who is already a drug addict over a child with a medical illness who wants to follow the law the best she can?

Now you’re trying to appear as though you give a shiny shyte about prisoners who are already drug addicts? And this is after you posted this asinine comment about the girl in the opening post -

Glurrl wrote: »

Has she tried smoking banana skins?

G’wan outta that :pac:

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

Full access to medical cannabis and decriminalisation of recreational cannabis NOW.

Another few states voted to legalise it during the Election 2020, it went under the radar as;

A. Trump has taken over the media coverage
B. Theres less than 15 states now.


Absolutely laughable that the country that caused criminalization is not nearly free of it and then countries like ours are wasting resources trying to stop it and declining a revenue stream and employment opportunities.

Shows the dinosaurs we have in the Dail.

Gruffalux

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I can’t say I blame you for the confusion, but no, the thread isn’t solely about medicinal use. The OP used the example they did as a jumping off point, and only later did it become clear that they were also referring to decriminalisation for recreational use -
:

Wrong again Jack, do you never tire of it? I started this thread because I saw a tweet direct from Vera Twomey and I thought WTF ...how is this woman supposed to travel to the Netherlands and increase risk of Covid exposure for her and her child when the government could keep facilitating the safety of her family and give her the child's supplies? It was actually my sole intention to bring public attention to that sole and exact case when I wrote the Op - but you do love to go around imputing what others mean and intend, left right and centre.
It came up then regarding cannabis for ordinary use - which is to be expected, naturally - and I just made it clear I am in favour of decriminalisation and regulation of cannabis in those circumstances also. So no Jack, wrong again, the OP was and remains about facilitating Ava Twomey and the decriminalisation of medical cannabis.

One eyed Jack

Gruffalux wrote: »

Wrong again Jack, do you never tire of it? I started this thread because I saw a tweet direct from Vera Twomey and I thought WTF ...how is this woman supposed to travel to the Netherlands and increase risk of Covid exposure for her and her child when the government could keep facilitating the safety of her family and give her the child's supplies? It was actually my sole intention to bring public attention to that sole and exact case when I wrote the Op - but you do love to go around imputing what others mean and intend, left right and centre.

That’s rich.

But apart from that, I understood the point of the opening post was to discuss permitting cannabis products for medicinal use, and that’s why I pointed out that one of the issues is conflating medicinal with recreational use - it’s simply not helpful.

Gruffalux wrote: »

It came up then regarding cannabis for ordinary use - which is to be expected, naturally - and I just made it clear I am in favour of decriminalisation and regulation of cannabis in those circumstances also. So no Jack, wrong again, the OP was and remains about facilitating Ava Twomey and the decriminalisation of medical cannabis.

It wasn’t to be expected because decriminalisation for recreational use has nothing to do with the circumstances outlined in your opening post. I thought it was like an Eirigi protester at a water charges protest - they use a legitimate purpose to covertly further their own aims. I didn’t get it wrong when I said it became clear that the thread wasn’t just about permitting cannabis for medicinal purposes, especially when you say yourself it was expected, naturally.

It really wasn’t, but you can impute what you want about my intent from that too. I certainly had no intention when I posted in the thread of having it dragged down the usual “decriminalisation for all purposes” route.

That’s not going to help it being regulated for medicinal purposes and it’s no surprise that only a handful of idiots like Gino Kenny are trying to get it introduced for medicinal purposes in spite of the fact that there is no supporting evidence for it’s efficacy, and he acts like a spoiled child then when he doesn’t get his own way -


Gino Kenny stands over Dáil ‘kip’ remark


Must be a conspiracy by Big Pharma agin’ him too.

Gruffalux

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I thought it was like an Eirigi protester at a water charges protest - they use a legitimate purpose to covertly further their own aims. .

Jaysis :pac:

One eyed Jack

Gruffalux wrote: »

Jaysis :pac:

It’s true, that’s exactly what I thought when I read suicide circus’ comment, it just really jarred as it was so out of context :pac:

Glurrl

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I can’t say I blame you for the confusion, but no, the thread isn’t solely about medicinal use. The OP used the example they did as a jumping off point, and only later did it become clear that they were also referring to decriminalisation for recreational use -








Five minutes ago you were asking this -





Now you’re trying to appear as though you give a shiny shyte about prisoners who are already drug addicts? And this is after you posted this asinine comment about the girl in the opening post -




G’wan outta that :pac:

I dont give a shiny **** about them and I'm not pretending to.

You are pretending to be concern about them, what's the advantages of keeping it a black market?

Gruffalux

Issue resolved.
From independent.ie...


A delivery service to Ireland to assist patients of licensed clinicians in obtaining their prescribed cannabis products was established last April on a temporary basis due to the Covid-19 pandemic.

This will now be made permanent, Stephen Donnelly revealed today.


The minister said: "Many patients and their families have shared stories with both me and officials in my Department about how this initiative has made a huge improvement to their lives.

"They spoke about the stress of having to travel regularly and the associated health risks with that, as well as their concerns that they would run out of their medication.

"I am so pleased that these problems will now be a thing of the past for them," Minister Donnelly continued.

"There will no longer be a need for them to travel abroad in order to collect their prescribed cannabis products. Instead, they can focus on their health and wellbeing."

Officials in the Department of Health will now finalise the arrangements in respect of how the collection and delivery service will work on a permanent basis into the future

Donald Trump

Gruffalux wrote: »

Issue resolved.
From independent.ie...


A delivery service to Ireland to assist patients of licensed clinicians in obtaining their prescribed cannabis products was established last April on a temporary basis due to the Covid-19 pandemic.

This will now be made permanent, Stephen Donnelly revealed today.


The minister said: "Many patients and their families have shared stories with both me and officials in my Department about how this initiative has made a huge improvement to their lives.

"They spoke about the stress of having to travel regularly and the associated health risks with that, as well as their concerns that they would run out of their medication.

"I am so pleased that these problems will now be a thing of the past for them," Minister Donnelly continued.

"There will no longer be a need for them to travel abroad in order to collect their prescribed cannabis products. Instead, they can focus on their health and wellbeing."

Officials in the Department of Health will now finalise the arrangements in respect of how the collection and delivery service will work on a permanent basis into the future

It's hardly revolutionary or new though is it?


From what you read in the media, the deliveroo fellas have been doing direct home deliveries for years.

Gruffalux

Donald Trump wrote: »

It's hardly revolutionary or new though is it?


From what you read in the media, the deliveroo fellas have been doing direct home deliveries for years.

The government is now managing supply of medical. Its a bit of a change alright.

JP Liz V1

Poor Ava passed away

RIP

RIP Ava. Sadly I don’t the medical cannabis proved to be the ultimate answer, though it may have provided more quality of life.