Will you take an approved COVID-19 vaccine?

GreeBo

323 wrote: »

for a disease with such low infection mortality is nuts.

Is dying the only thing you vaccinate against?

GreeBo

polesheep wrote: »

In my experience, direct family members working in healthcare, it's a case of not wanting to medicate unnecessarily. If very ill or feeling threatened, then medicate/vaccinate. If not, just let your body deal with it. They don't see the flu as being serious enough to medicate for.

None of them feel that going to work currently is a roll of the dice. They don't feel threatened by Covid.

Whatever about their risk, what about that of their patients?
Lots of them cant "just let your body deal with it" as that results in death.

eagle eye

Looks like there's no rush to go get a vaccine now. It appears that Ivermectin has us sorted to beat this thing should we contract it.

https://www.healio.com/news/primary-care/20201208/this-was-a-gift-to-us-ivermectin-effective-for-covid19-prophylaxis-treatment

begbysback

brisan wrote: »

Quants already have
Ticketmaster have floated the idea
One poster here has said his HR dept have e mailed him and said from an unspecified as yet date from next year ,no vaccine no job
So it may happen
if it does would you reconsider your position

I don’t have a position, I don’t mind taking it but would rather not if it’s not necessary, I’ve probably had Covid 5 or 6 time’s this year, though one of those times may have been an allergic reaction to cleaning detergent.

With the fastest vaccine trial ever taken place, and hr departments making up stuff as they go along it seems lawyers and solicitors will be the great benefactors of the covid era.

323

GreeBo wrote: »

Is dying the only thing you vaccinate against?

No, only pathogens that have a very high chance of doing so, Yellow Fever, Cholera, Typhoid etc

Sconsey

323 wrote: »

No, only pathogens that have a very high chance of doing so, Yellow Fever, Cholera, Typhoid etc

Why do you think kids get the measels vaccine?

seamus

begbysback wrote: »

I’d be pretty sure you legally cannot discriminate in such scenarios.

You can on health and safety grounds.

323

brisan wrote: »

As is your right
If however restrictions are placed on you such as ?
Job opportunities reduced
Ability to travel reduced
Ability to attend certain events reduced
Will you reconsider your position ?

Apart from discrimination, are these rights not enshrined in our constitution.

No will not reconsider, until such point as we tear up our constitution completely and introduce martial law.

Believe that's unlikely, although no longer impossable, considering the mob and many here, led by RTE and the media were calling for just that not so long ago, about students having a drink FFS.

eagle eye

brisan wrote:

We are not discussing the flu vaccine pregnant women cant take the vaccine ,we are discussing people who will not take the vaccine ,

And you are saying that it's not safe for them to work or travel, same applies to pregnant women.

polesheep

Detritus70 wrote: »

I'll take things that never happened for 500.
Just bollocks.
Funny how the "sceptics" are always disease experts, work in "the medical profession" and "seem" to know the virus at a molecular level.
I'm sure these people were also suddenly "experts" at raking leaves in forests or were anthropological experts when the subject was refugees. :rolleyes:

I am not suddenly anything. I have been upfront since the day I registered. I am not stating anything that I have not stated before. I am not a medical person nor a scientist, but I do have direct access to those people and they are willing to answer my questions, no matter how naive or foolish they might be.

I am very pro-vax in general but hesitant regarding these new vaccines. And I don't believe that people will be coerced into taking a vaccine through discrimination. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it.

is_that_so

seamus wrote: »

You can on health and safety grounds.

That would be a very tricky one and definitely a trip to the Labour Court to find out! As we do not need everyone to be vaccinated it looks discriminatory and very like enforced vaccinations. That's not good optics.

polesheep

GreeBo wrote: »

Whatever about their risk, what about that of their patients?
Lots of them cant "just let your body deal with it" as that results in death.

As the vaccines roll out, people who are at risk or feel at risk, will be vaccinated and protected.

The HSE may very well introduce a vaccine requirement for new employees, but that is a different matter. My own son had to have a whole slew of vaccines before he could work in a US hospital, but he knew that going in.

hmmm

is_that_so wrote: »

That would be a very tricky one and definitely a trip to the Labour Court to find out! As we do not need everyone to be vaccinated it looks discriminatory and very like enforced vaccinations. That's not good optics.

I've heard this "discrimination" claim a couple of times. Discrimination laws in Ireland list very clearly the criteria which can be used to claim discrimination, and a vaccination requirement is not one I can see. Vague claims about the Constitution will be laughed out of court.

One thing the anti-vaxxers also over-estimate is how important their views are, and how far their "rights" go. People refusing the MMR were seen as a bit quaint, but an outbreak of Covid in a nursing home or on a plane caused by someone who is unvaccinated is a different matter. I suspect it may end up in court at some stage, but it will be the person who contracted Covid doing the suing.

polesheep

hmmm wrote: »

I've heard this "discrimination" claim a couple of times. Discrimination laws in Ireland list very clearly the criteria which can be used to claim discrimination, and a vaccination requirement is not one I can see. Vague claims about the Constitution will be laughed out of court.

One thing the anti-vaxxers also over-estimate is how important their views are, and how far their "rights" go. People refusing the MMR were seen as a bit quaint, but an outbreak of Covid in a nursing home or on a plane caused by someone who is unvaccinated is a different matter. I suspect it may end up in court at some stage, but it will be the person who contracted Covid doing the suing.

Really? Suing someone for not being vaccinated? For the life of me I cannot understand people even wanting to discuss this kind of stuff. Just encourage your contacts to get vaccinated.

is_that_so

hmmm wrote: »

I've heard this "discrimination" claim a couple of times. Discrimination laws in Ireland list very clearly the criteria which can be used to claim discrimination, and a vaccination requirement is not one I can see.

One thing the anti-vaxxers also over-estimate is how important their views are, and how far their "rights" go. People refusing the MMR were seen as a bit quaint, but an outbreak of Covid in a nursing home or on a plane caused by someone who is unvaccinated is a different matter. I suspect it may end up in court at some stage, but it will be the person who contracted Covid doing the suing.

It's fairly hard to find health and safety grounds given that we do not need 100% coverage and really what you'd end up with is employers making unfounded medical claims. When we get to 70%+, anti-vaxxers won't matter, which is a very good thing here. I think it's the wrong way to go entirely, especially when there are plenty of other health and safety measures employers can easily take.

begbysback

hmmm wrote: »

I've heard this "discrimination" claim a couple of times. Discrimination laws in Ireland list very clearly the criteria which can be used to claim discrimination, and a vaccination requirement is not one I can see. Vague claims about the Constitution will be laughed out of court.

One thing the anti-vaxxers also over-estimate is how important their views are, and how far their "rights" go. People refusing the MMR were seen as a bit quaint, but an outbreak of Covid in a nursing home or on a plane caused by someone who is unvaccinated is a different matter. I suspect it may end up in court at some stage, but it will be the person who contracted Covid doing the suing.

Yea, you’re moral laws are admiral, but that’s all they are, moral.

Vaccination cannot be enforced legally, therefore any idea of suing a carrier has no grounds.

And I’m no antivaxxer, I’m apathetic, but some of the nonsense on here is Alice in wonderland stuff.

hmmm

is_that_so wrote: »

I think it's the wrong way to go entirely, especially when there are plenty of other health and safety measures employers can take.

Again, you're only thinking about the "rights" of the person who is not vaccinated.

What about those who don't want to work in a workplace where they are at risk of getting infected? Or people in a nursing home? What happens when one nursing home advertises that all its staff are vaccinated, and another nursing home can't say the same? Does an employer have a duty of care to staff by not exposing them to unvaccinated employees? Can a waitress in a restaurant claim that their employer failed to provide a safe workplace by allowing unvaccinated people to enter during a pandemic? Can a diner in the same restaurant claim it was not a safe environment, no different to sliding on a water spill?

None of these might hold much legal water, but there are two sides to consider.

j@utis

is_that_so wrote: »

It's fairly hard to find health and safety grounds given that we do not need 100% coverage and really what you'd end up with is employers making unfounded medical claims. When we get to 70%+, anti-vaxxers won't matter, which is a very good thing here. I think it's the wrong way to go entirely, especially when there are plenty of other health and safety measures employers can easily take.

The question is "how we gonna get to 70%" Nobody I know from my age group is rushing to get vaccinated [late 30s, 40s].

Ashbourne hoop

j@utis wrote: »

The question is "how we gonna get to 70%" Nobody I know from my age group is rushing to get vaccinated [late 30s, 40s].

Everybody I know plans on getting it, same age bracket (upper limit of it !!!)

j@utis

so 50/50

is_that_so

hmmm wrote: »

Again, you're only thinking about the "rights" of the person who is not vaccinated.

What about those who don't want to work in a workplace where they are at risk of getting infected? Or people in a nursing home? What happens when one nursing home advertises that all its staff are vaccinated, and another nursing home can't say the same? Does an employer have a duty of care to staff by not exposing them to unvaccinated employees? Can a waitress in a restaurant claim that their employer failed to provide a safe workplace by allowing unvaccinated people to enter during a pandemic? Can a diner in the same restaurant claim it was not a safe environment, no different to sliding on a water spill?

None of these might hold much legal water, but there are two sides to consider.

I'm thinking about what an employer can and should be doing and I really don't share your draconian approach. How can employers insist on vaccinations when the State doesn't?

Virtually all your examples are medical and will be addressed. The waitress and any other public facing positions are spurious, unless employers are going to demand vaccinations of their customers. I'm a fan of common sense and it will come out when we get to vaccinations. That'll apply to everyone IMO.

is_that_so

j@utis wrote: »

The question is "how we gonna get to 70%" Nobody I know from my age group is rushing to get vaccinated [late 30s, 40s].

The older cohorts will probably cover most of it and you should find enough keen people in the other age groups. Polls have us at 75% or so in favour.

begbysback

begbysback wrote: »

I don’t have a position, I don’t mind taking it but would rather not if it’s not necessary, I’ve probably had Covid 5 or 6 time’s this year, though one of those times may have been an allergic reaction to cleaning detergent.

No you haven't. Cases of reinfection are EXTREMELY rare. To say you "aren't immune" for a good period of time after infection is pseudoscientific nonsense. Otherwise we would all be dead.

This kind of thing is due to ridiculous media sensationalism.

hmmm

is_that_so wrote: »

I'm thinking about what an employer can and should be doing and I really don't share your draconian approach. How can employers insist on vaccinations when the State doesn't?

I'm not sure what the state has got to do with the decisions of a private employer.

Again, I think you're not looking at this from the other perspective. Unlike the "discrimination" nonsense, employers have an actual duty of care to employees. And if customers can sue for getting handed coffee which is too hot, they can certainly consider suing a business where they feel it inadequately protects them from a dangerous disease. If I had a relative in a nursing home who got Covid from an unvaccinated staff member I'd be hopping mad and would try to do something about it. But thankfully I'm not a lawyer

Plumbthedepths

hmmm wrote: »

I'm not sure what the state has got to do with the decisions of a private employer.

Again, I think you're not looking at this from the other perspective. Unlike the "discrimination" nonsense, employers have an actual duty of care to employees. And if customers can sue for getting handed coffee which is too hot, they can certainly consider suing a business where they feel it inadequately protects them from a dangerous disease. If I had a relative in a nursing home who got Covid from an unvaccinated staff member I'd be hopping mad and would try to do something about it. But thankfully I'm not a lawyer

It's quite obvious you're not a solicitor/ barrister. We don't call legal professionals lawyers in Ireland, maybe it's an American mindset that makes some believe 'suing' is a possibility. lol.

plodder

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It's quite obvious you're not a solicitor/ barrister. We don't call legal professionals lawyers in Ireland, maybe it's an American mindset that makes some believe 'suing' is a possibility. lol.

Lawyer is a generic term for solicitor or barrister which is commonly used here.

I'm not one either but here's my tuppence worth regardless.

I think it will depend on the circumstances and in particular whether the injured party (who catches covid) could have avoided it by getting vaccinated themselves.

So, the problem arises mainly in the short/medium term, before everybody has the opportunity to get vaccinated, but longer term, there will be some who might never get vaccinated (or not for a number of years) like pregnant women. What about those people's rights? But in the short term, employers of medical staff are going to be in a sticky situation if patients catch covid from staff who could have got vaccinated but didn't imo.

The Phantom Jipper

Does anyone know if there is a site that tracks how many people have taken the vaccine by country, similar to how Worldometers tracks cases / deaths?

Plumbthedepths

plodder wrote: »

Lawyer is a generic term for solicitor or barrister which is commonly used here.

I'm not one either but here's my tuppence worth regardless.

I think it will depend on the circumstances and in particular whether the injured party (who catches covid) could have avoided it by getting vaccinated themselves.

So, the problem arises mainly in the short/medium term, before everybody has the opportunity to get vaccinated, but longer term, there will be some who might never get vaccinated (or not for a number of years) like pregnant women. What about those people's rights? But in the short term, employers of medical staff are going to be in a sticky situation if patients catch covid from staff who could have got vaccinated but didn't imo.

It will be amusing to see an attempt at 'burden of proof'.
No solicitor will take a case on a no win no fee basis, so I hope any perspective injured party has very deep pockets. They'll need them.

begbysback

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No you haven't. Cases of reinfection are EXTREMELY rare. To say you "aren't immune" for a good period of time after infection is pseudoscientific nonsense. Otherwise we would all be dead.

This kind of thing is due to ridiculous media sensationalism.

Woosh

polesheep

plodder wrote: »

Lawyer is a generic term for solicitor or barrister which is commonly used here.

I'm not one either but here's my tuppence worth regardless.

I think it will depend on the circumstances and in particular whether the injured party (who catches covid) could have avoided it by getting vaccinated themselves.

So, the problem arises mainly in the short/medium term, before everybody has the opportunity to get vaccinated, but longer term, there will be some who might never get vaccinated (or not for a number of years) like pregnant women. What about those people's rights? But in the short term, employers of medical staff are going to be in a sticky situation if patients catch covid from staff who could have got vaccinated but didn't imo.

And staff who have or will catch Covid from patients, is that a sticky situation?