Will you take an approved COVID-19 vaccine?

schmoo2k

plodder wrote: »

Here's a good article in the New York Times about whether vaccines will generate immunity or simply prevent severe disease. The gist is they should reduce viral load and the ability to spread, but the concern is that intra-muscular vaccines are not likely to be as effective in that regard as future mucosal sprays. Data will be available in "several weeks".

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/health/covid-vaccine-mask.html

Currently its an unknown:
1. If the vaccine lowers your ability to re-transmit it, happy days.
2. If the vaccine doesn't lower your ability to re-transmit it, then it is more important to ensure the "priority list" is observed, but it will mean we will reach heard immunity quicker (and with minimal serious cases)!

brisan

:rolleyes:

is_that_so wrote: »

It's more of a train of thought, one that looks logical enough to me, but judging by this one you don't accept.

I don’t accept or deny
No one knows what the future plans of governments , airlines or employers are
We are only guessing
However I can see where there might be sound reasoning given by certain sectors for proof of vaccination to avail of their services or employment
I would not hold a definitive opinion or make general assumptions because we have nothing to base them on as this has never happened before in modern society

Howard Beale

Never take one.

First week of administering this crap and people already getting bell's palsy.


It doesn't matter if people drop dead the second they take it people still want it. Incredible how no one questions this stuff or why the government rushed to cover the ass of the manufacturers with indemnity.

Needle full of Heroin be safer than this shyte. Least you knock a bit of craic out of that too I heard it's like being wrapped in a anesthetic warm blanket. Seems more fun then bell's palsy and a F U from the manufacturers when you invariably have 'side effects'.






https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/covid-vaccine-bells-palsy

schmoo2k

Howard Beale wrote: »

Never take one.

First week of administering this crap and people already getting bell's palsy.


It doesn't matter if people drop dead the second they take it people still want it. Incredible how no one questions this stuff or why the government rushed to cover the ass of the manufacturers with indemnity.

Needle full of Heroin be safer than this shyte. Least you knock a bit of craic out of that too I heard it's like being wrapped in a anesthetic warm blanket. Seems more fun then bell's palsy and a F U from the manufacturers when you invariably have 'side effects'.






https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/covid-vaccine-bells-palsy

From your linked article:

COVID-19 vaccine and Bell's palsy: Is there a link?
None has been established. "I cannot make a direct connection with the vaccine and suspect this is a coincidence," Dr. Hinman says. "The normal incidence of Bell's palsy is roughly 20 people out of 100,000. The Pfizer study examined 38,000 patients, so four cases would be within the normal observed incidence of Bell's palsy."

CIARAN_BOYLE

As someone that has had Bells Palsey before (twice) let me supply some additional information

1. Many people who suffer Bells Palsey have the condition reoccur at a later stage of life.
2. A history of Bells Palsey is something that people designing clinical trials do not attempt to balance.

A negligible amount of cases in the vaccine group is negligible.

Howard Beale

schmoo2k wrote: »

From your linked article:

Suspect it's coincidence?

Imagine shooting someone in the head and when they die suspect 'the death is a coincidence'.

Usual wordplay malarkey to cover the pharma company arses.


We will be hearing stories of people dropping like flies and people still take
Bill 'depopulate the World' Gates vaccine.


Of course here I be called a conspiracy theorist by people going around in full hazard suits dying for a vaccine they care not one jot it does to them.

Each to their own but I really think those that take this utter crap have no reason to whinge when they are feeling funny and losing their faculties and the doctors response is basically meh get lost.


Forewarned is forewarned.

tom1ie

schmoo2k wrote: »

Currently its an unknown:
1. If the vaccine lowers your ability to re-transmit it, happy days.
2. If the vaccine doesn't lower your ability to re-transmit it, then it is more important to ensure the "priority list" is observed, but it will mean we will reach heard immunity quicker (and with minimal serious cases)!

How, if we are not vaccinating under 16s (25% of the population?)
Add onto that pregnant women, those trying to conceive, those breastfeeding, the immune compromised.
that probably brings the % up to 35% at least, we know we need 70% to reach herd immunity (michael olsterholm and other immunology experts).

ceegee

Howard Beale wrote: »

Suspect it's coincidence?

Imagine shooting someone in the head and when they die suspect 'the death is a coincidence'.

Usual wordplay malarkey to cover the pharma company arses.


We will be hearing stories of people dropping like flies and people still take
Bill 'depopulate the World' Gates vaccine.


Of course here I be called a conspiracy theorist by people going around in full hazard suits dying for a vaccine they care not one jot it does to them.

Each to their own but I really think those that take this utter crap have no reason to whinge when they are feeling funny and losing their faculties and the doctors response is basically meh get lost.


Forewarned is forewarned.

The same amount of people had Bell's Palsy episodes as you would expect for any group of that size observed for that length of time.
One participant was in a car crash. Should we all be panicking that the vaccine will cause mayhem on the M50?

seamie78

Howard Beale wrote: »

Suspect it's coincidence?

Imagine shooting someone in the head and when they die suspect 'the death is a coincidence'.

Usual wordplay malarkey to cover the pharma company arses.


We will be hearing stories of people dropping like flies and people still take
Bill 'depopulate the World' Gates vaccine.


Of course here I be called a conspiracy theorist by people going around in full hazard suits dying for a vaccine they care not one jot it does to them.

Each to their own but I really think those that take this utter crap have no reason to whinge when they are feeling funny and losing their faculties and the doctors response is basically meh get lost.


Forewarned is forewarned.

if only the worlds leading scientists had your knowledge

Necro

Howard Beale wrote: »

Suspect it's coincidence?

Imagine shooting someone in the head and when they die suspect 'the death is a coincidence'.

Usual wordplay malarkey to cover the pharma company arses.


We will be hearing stories of people dropping like flies and people still take
Bill 'depopulate the World' Gates vaccine.


Of course here I be called a conspiracy theorist by people going around in full hazard suits dying for a vaccine they care not one jot it does to them.

Each to their own but I really think those that take this utter crap have no reason to whinge when they are feeling funny and losing their faculties and the doctors response is basically meh get lost.


Forewarned is forewarned.

Mod:

Tone down the bolded rhetoric or don't post in this thread, people are allowed to have differing opinions to you and belittling them is a sure fire way to earn yourself a thread ban.

Post in a civil manner and all opinions are permitted.

Howard Beale

seamie78 wrote: »

if only the worlds leading scientists had your knowledge

Yeah shame they are all dumbasses or perhaps they are all lining their own pockets and will push any old crap to further their own luxury and buy new cars and new flats and apartments and holiday homes?

You can bet your life the shyte they are pushing they are ain't taking. Same with a smack dealer. They supply not participate.

Maybe their little teeny bopper young one needs a new Lexus? Take the great vaccine folks!

Remember.

Paper never refused ink and these greedy clowns never refuse money.


Funny how none of them will debate Dolores Cahill if they are 'leading scientists'. Her education dwarf any of theirs so what are they afraid of?

plodder

Howard Beale wrote: »

Suspect it's coincidence?

Imagine shooting someone in the head and when they die suspect 'the death is a coincidence'.

Usual wordplay malarkey to cover the pharma company arses.

You're seriously missing the point with that. Billions of people don't get shot in the head ever, but potentially billions will get one of these vaccines. So, there will be coincidences. No question about it. Some day, someone will get the vaccine and the next day they will drop dead from a heart attack, which would have happened if they didn't get the vaccine. But, their loved ones won't know that and will naturally ask - did the vaccine cause that? It's human nature.

allaboutt

ceegee wrote: »

The same amount of people had Bell's Palsy episodes as you would expect for any group of that size observed for that length of time.
One participant was in a car crash. Should we all be panicking that the vaccine will cause mayhem on the M50?

From FDA

"Bell’s palsy was reported by four vaccine participants and none in the placebo group. These cases occurred at 3, 9, 37, and 48 days after vaccination. One case (onset at 3 days postvaccination) was reported as resolved with sequelae within three days after onset, and the other three were reported as continuing or resolving as of the November 14, 2020 data cut-off with ongoing durations of 10, 15, and 21 days, respectively. The observed frequency of reported Bell’s palsy in the vaccine group is consistent with the expected background rate in the general population, and there is no clear basis upon which to conclude a causal relationship at this time, but FDA will recommend surveillance for cases of Bell’s palsy with deployment of the vaccine into larger populations"

BryanMartin21

John_Rambo wrote: »

I know, and it's a good point. However, the anti-maskers seem to be very vocal on the internet but I never see them in shops. I think when it comes down to it a lot of the anti-vaccine crew will quietly get the vaccine after a few weeks of hiding in their bedrooms and seeing how the sucessful leaders of society get on hauling the country back to normal.

You should go to the Jervis centre. So many people not bothering with masks and usually a certain "type" of person let's say.

allaboutt

schmoo2k wrote: »

From your linked article:

Again from the FDA Report.
"Although the safety database revealed an imbalance of cases of Bell’s palsy (4 in the vaccine group and none in the placebo group),causal relationship is less certain because the number of cases was small and not more frequent than expected in the general population. Further signal detection efforts for these adverse events will be informative with more widespread use of the vaccine"

So the inbalance of Bell'sPalsy is inline what they would expect from the covid 19 vaccine group that they would find with the general population. We will know more when we have more widespread use of the vaccine...

its one to watch but not one to get alarmed about yet.

allaboutt

John_Rambo wrote: »

When the vaccine arrives I can see most of the "I won't be taking it" crew availing of the vaccine. (allergy sufferers aside of course)

It's like the anti mask crew. Full of hard man guff on the internet but actually wear the masks when they're in shops.

Respectfully John_rambo a big difference between being asked to wear a mask and to inject something into your body on emergency approval that has being rushed through within months...The Long Term Data is not there about mRNA Vaccines. A bit of common sense is warranted before you inject it into your body. I am of the belief most people will wake up and ask the simple quesiton do I want to be the guinea pig for the first authorised mRNA Vaccine for humans.

We have taken every Vaccine but the Pfizer /Moderna its an absolute no for now.!

allaboutt

brisan wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I don’t accept or deny
No one knows what the future plans of governments , airlines or employers are
We are only guessing
However I can see where there might be sound reasoning given by certain sectors for proof of vaccination to avail of their services or employment
I would not hold a definitive opinion or make general assumptions because we have nothing to base them on as this has never happened before in modern society

I agree brisan there will be an attempt for certain sectors for proof of Vaccinations. I dont agree with it personally but i do acknowledge it as a possibility for it.


Personally i think now is the time you need to educate yourself on the Vaccines and where lies the loop holes in case there is a 1% chance of Mad Max Mandatory Vaccines for everyone

is_that_so

allaboutt wrote: »

Respectfully John_rambo a big difference between being asked to wear a mask and to inject something into your body on emergency approval that has being rushed through within months...The Long Term Data is not there about mRNA Vaccines. A bit of common sense is warranted before you inject it into your body. I am of the belief most people will wake up and ask the simple quesiton do I want to be the guinea pig for the first authorised mRNA Vaccine for humans.

We have taken every Vaccine but the Pfizer /Moderna its an absolute no for now.!

If you're in one of the latter groups it'll probably be summertime anyway before they get to you. I reckon they'll want groups 1-7 done by about March if they can. By that time we'll have data on millions worldwide.

schmoo2k

tom1ie wrote: »

How, if we are not vaccinating under 16s (25% of the population?)
Add onto that pregnant women, those trying to conceive, those breastfeeding, the immune compromised.
that probably brings the % up to 35% at least, we know we need 70% to reach herd immunity (michael olsterholm and other immunology experts).

Because the virus will spread naturally through the low risk groups as we return to normal. The 70% figure is for immune folks (either vaccinated or by natural immunity)

runawaybishop

allaboutt wrote: »

Respectfully John_rambo a big difference between being asked to wear a mask and to inject something into your body on emergency approval that has being rushed through within months...The Long Term Data is not there about mRNA Vaccines. A bit of common sense is warranted before you inject it into your body. I am of the belief most people will wake up and ask the simple quesiton do I want to be the guinea pig for the first authorised mRNA Vaccine for humans.

We have taken every Vaccine but the Pfizer /Moderna its an absolute no for now.!

What part of it, exactly, was rushed?

How dangerous, in general, are vaccines?

Why is an RNA vaccine an issue for you?

What do we need to 'wake up' from?

Approved User Assesment

Don't see the problem 60% of pollsters here said they'd take it, at some stage <1yr, which may well be sufficient for herd immunity.

The other 40% are free to refuse outright, or delay their choice for e.g. 1yr or longer - for these typically new multi-dose/stage/mutating multi-vendor, RNA vaccines, which have never been evaluated for side-effects over the long-tern.

Read somewhere J&J have slashed their trial group by 1/3rd to push for EUA (licence to use), interesting.

allaboutt

is_that_so wrote: »

If you're in one of the latter groups it'll probably be summertime anyway before they get to you. I reckon they'll want groups 1-7 done by about March if they can. By that time we'll have data on millions worldwide.

Fortunately a long way off Even If it gets to my age group this year i will need to add another 6 months at least on to that for data points in relation to my specifics ie nationality, country, age, preconditions etc.
And that is a good point we need more data to understand the short term affects ie less than 6 months...
If you look at the FDA report for the different age groups under 16 we have no data on them. So we are at a minimum 1 year before they can roll it out to them due to no data points currently and more importantly specific to our country etc etc.

And I purposely havent even talked about the long term affects yet but the FDA rpeort has a get out of jail card for that ..

"Adverse reactions that are very uncommon or that require longer follow-up to be
detected
Following authorization of the vaccine, use in large numbers of individuals may reveal
additional, potentially less frequent and/or more serious adverse events not detected in the trial safety population of nearly 44,000 participants over the period of follow up at this time. Active and passive safety surveillance will continue during the post authorization period to detect new safety signals.
A numerically greater number of appendicitis cases occurred in the vaccine group but occurred no more frequently than expected in the given age groups and do not raise a clear concern at this time for a causal relationship to study vaccination. Although the safety database revealed an imbalance of cases of Bell’s palsy (4 in the vaccine group and none in the placebo group), causal relationship is less certain because the number of cases was small and not more frequent than expected in the general population. Further signal detection efforts for these adverse events will be informative with more widespread use of the vaccine."


That was interesting to do as it answers my "can they make a Vaccine Mandatory"
Impossible when you read the results of the report ! All Scare Mongering!

John_Rambo

allaboutt wrote: »

Respectfully John_rambo a big difference between being asked to wear a mask and to inject something into your body on emergency approval that has being rushed through within months...The Long Term Data is not there about mRNA Vaccines. A bit of common sense is warranted before you inject it into your body. I am of the belief most people will wake up and ask the simple quesiton do I want to be the guinea pig for the first authorised mRNA Vaccine for humans.

We have taken every Vaccine but the Pfizer /Moderna its an absolute no for now.!

Nobodies asking you to inject anything in to your body Allabout. Nobody.

Sit back, don't get it, see how the leaders of society get on, watch them get the economy back on it's feet, then when you see everyone else getting on you'll go and get it. That's fine, there's lots of people out there just like you.

Fighting Irish

Father Hernandez wrote: »

With my age profile, I doubt I’ll be one of the first but if it means being able to get back to normal as soon as possible, absolutely I’ll be taking it once it’s deemed safe by those developing it.

I’d trust scientists with years of experience over the many folks on social media who feels it’s a conspiracy theory who constantly contradict themselves with their ramblings.

It's a private company, not scientists, you are trusting

seligehgit

Yes absolutely

hmmm

Approved User Assesment wrote: »

Read somewhere J&J have slashed their trial group by 1/3rd to push for EUA (licence to use), interesting.

Simply because they are seeing so many infections amongst their trial participants due to the catastrophic way the US is handling their epidemic, they don't need to enroll as many people to get results.

joseywhales

Fighting Irish wrote: »

It's a private company, not scientists, you are trusting

really its the regulators that we are trusting, who hopefully are following full due process and are not being influenced by what I'm sure is massive pressure.

joseywhales

Approved User Assesment wrote: »

Don't see the problem 60% of pollsters here said they'd take it, at some stage <1yr, which may well be sufficient for herd immunity.

The other 40% are free to refuse outright, or delay their choice for e.g. 1yr or longer - for these typically new multi-dose/stage/mutating multi-vendor, RNA vaccines, which have never been evaluated for side-effects over the long-tern.

Read somewhere J&J have slashed their trial group by 1/3rd to push for EUA (licence to use), interesting.

An internet forum poll is not the same as getting the time off work and physically getting jabbed in the arm twice. And confidence is fickle, a large enough minority will grow fast if they can successfully create enough fear.Its a real issue, everyone has fingers crossed that the public will have confidence in the vaccine.

Approved User Assesment

joseywhales wrote: »

An internet forum poll is not the same as getting the time off work and physically getting jabbed in the arm twice. And confidence is fickle, a large enough minority will grow fast if they can successfully create enough fear.Its a real issue, everyone has fingers crossed that the public will have confidence in the vaccine.

Many polls and surveys also point towards 60-75% saying they'd take it, which is sufficient in the larger scheme of things.

The question is really, should the other 25-40% pay a penalty, suffer restrictions, be denied various types of freedoms, denied location access, denied types of travel, risk their jobs, all for their own personal choice to opt out.

allaboutt

John_Rambo wrote: »

Nobodies asking you to inject anything in to your body Allabout. Nobody.

Sit back, don't get it, see how the leaders of society get on, watch them get the economy back on it's feet, then when you see everyone else getting on you'll go and get it. That's fine, there's lots of people out there just like you.

That is exactly what will happen, it will come through the backdoor.. you cant do this unless you have it. Its like taxes start with small taxes, so little it means nothing and then gradually increase as time goes by. The same will happen with this vaccine, bit by bit people will get it without even knowing what happens after 5 years of having it (a big if there is long term affects)