Will you take an approved COVID-19 vaccine?

schmoo2k

is_that_so wrote: »

Anyone outside the first half a dozen groups will be waiting till the summer anyway. That's 6 months of huge data from multiple countries.

The problem with the new data is that there will be lots of coincidental side affects. For example if several vaccinated folks get bells palsy (like happened in the trial) then it will take more time to work out if its a direct side effect or unrelated.

Another real example is that there will be a higher % of vaccinated folks who will be involved in pedestrian accidents (hit by a car / bus etc.) - I will leave it to the reader to work out why!

GreeBo

For those who aren't taking it because the vaccines were "rushed" or "not by the book"....what would you consider to be not rushed or actually by the book?
How much of the typical time taken is needed for scientific reasons vs administration/logistical that can be overcome with money?

schmoo2k

schmoo2k wrote: »

Everything you have said is also true for folks who have contracted Covid, we have no long term studies on that either...

There is a very good chance that those opting out of the vaccine you will ultimately get natural immunity anyway, if your opting in good for you, if your not that is fine also.

But I don't get why some folks:
1. Want to "push" their choice to others
2. Make a decision based on non qualified opinions

I opted out of these types of threads concerning vaccines, due to that same issue, if you don't want it, you're an anti Vaxer..IM glad to see there's more respect now being shown to anyone who prefers to go their own way and give this a miss. The Govt of the day looks like they'll get their 70% by the sound of the Vaccine thread. Good posts Schmoo2k, refreshing to read.

John_Rambo

schmoo2k wrote: »

The problem with the new data is that there will be lots of coincidental side affects. For example if several vaccinated folks get bells palsy (like happened in the trial) then it will take more time to work out if its a direct side effect or unrelated.

Another real example is that there will be a higher % of vaccinated folks who will be involved in pedestrian accidents (hit by a car / bus etc.) - I will leave it to the reader to work out why!

Can I ask who told you that?
There were four cases, not several and the normal incidence of Bell's palsy is roughly 20 people out of 100,000.
The Pfizer study examined 38,000 patients, so 4 cases are within the normal observed incidence of Bell's palsy in any given year, any time, any place, vaccine or no vaccine.

brisan

hmmm wrote: »

At least it's obvious.

The more difficult ones to counter are the more subtle. They get mixed up with the genuine arguments why people may be reluctant to vaccinate.

Some were using the word sterlize in the data to mean the next generation would be childless

brisan

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

The vaccine makers and have been granted full immunity from any legal or financial claims by the Irish ruling Junta that should tell you all you need to know.

Like the feminists said my body my choice.

And if the rest of society decide through the government to place restrictions on your freedoms that is their choice

brisan

schmoo2k wrote: »

Everything you have said is also true for folks who have contracted Covid, we have no long term studies on that either...

There is a very good chance that those opting out of the vaccine you will ultimately get natural immunity anyway, if your opting in good for you, if your not that is fine also.

But I don't get why some folks:
1. Want to "push" their choice to others
2. Make a decision based on non qualified opinions

Exactly
maybe one of the long term effects of covid is infertility in a percentage of people who contracted the virus
We just don't know
Mumps caused infertility in some adult males

brisan

schmoo2k wrote: »

The problem with the new data is that there will be lots of coincidental side affects. For example if several vaccinated folks get bells palsy (like happened in the trial) then it will take more time to work out if its a direct side effect or unrelated.

Another real example is that there will be a higher % of vaccinated folks who will be involved in pedestrian accidents (hit by a car / bus etc.) - I will leave it to the reader to work out why!

If the first cohort to receive the vaccine are the elderly and medically vulnerable then some of them will die next year
Did the vaccine cause their death, or is it just nature taking its course

schmoo2k

John_Rambo wrote: »

Can I ask who told you that?
There were four cases, not several and the normal incidence of Bell's palsy is roughly 20 people out of 100,000.
The Pfizer study examined 38,000 patients, so 4 cases are within the normal observed incidence of Bell's palsy in any given year, any time, any place, vaccine or no vaccine.

1. Several is "more than two but not many"
2. You are correct (I was just keeping my post short)
3. We are in agreement - the point I was trying to convey is that there will be "coincidental" things like the above and it will take time to work out which are coincidental and which are not.
4. You forgot to mention that all 4 cases in the trial happened to be in the vaccinated group and not in the placebo group (but small enough to be statically irrelevant).

allaboutt

Doc07 wrote: »

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regulatory/overview/public-health-threats/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/treatments-vaccines/covid-19-vaccines-development-evaluation-approval-monitoring

There you go, it’s a long read but plenty of information in non-technical language about how vaccine development can be sped up in a public health emergency situation without compromising scientific integrity or regulation standards.

Thank you great information in there!

The one thing i was looking for, its there and its pretty much useless. nop bloody timelines in the figure

Figure 2: Indicative timelines for COVID-19 vaccines compared with standard vaccines

Again to someone who asks no questions it looks brillant, all it does it shows Covid 19 Vaccine was shorter to approval than traditonal Vaccines but wihtout timelines it means nothing. Boing by the graph Covid 19 took 1/2 (1 year Approx) the time of Traditional Vaccines (2years) but we know that Vaccines have taken in the past longer than 2 years.


I guess i am still looking

Necro

I'll definitely be taking it when it's available to me. Already had Covid back in October but I'd still be taking it because we don't have that much data on reinfection rates yet.

Tomtom3105

nedkelly123 wrote: »

Yes of course

look at all the diseases that we don't have to deal with anymore because of science


Polio,Tetanus,Hepatitis B,Hepatitis A,Rubella,Hib,Measles,Whooping Cough,Pneumococcal Disease,Rotavirus,Mumps,Chickenpox etc

of course I'm sure the Alumni from the Royal College of Facebook and YouTube will disagree.....

Is there a chicken pox vaccine?

allaboutt

PhantomHat wrote: »

Very good information here. However a rushed out vaccine still falls short in the time it takes to show any adverse effects.
You cannot substitute time for any fancy methods. Time is time.
The manufacturers will be looking closely at the data collected from the general population from this point on. This will show if there will be any issues. Hopefully there won't be anything major.

I agree about the time and thats the million Dollar Question.
What are the Side affects after 1 months - We know
What are the Side affects after 2 months - we know
What are the side affects after 12 months - ???
What are the Side affects after 24 months -

What are the side affects after 3 year/5 years.
In the past we found out by the elapsing of time and follow ups.


Why is it different this time? What data / statistical analysis are they using to back up that this Vaccine is safe after certain time periods have elapsed.
What have they used before to determine that it is safe.

It is the Manfacturers/Governments Job to prove this Vaccine is safe not ours.

In fairness it is early days yet..

Necro

I don't really think the vaccine was rushed per se. More of a concentrated global effort against a virus that was shutting down economies all across the globe.

Necro

Necro wrote: »

I don't really think the vaccine was rushed per se. More of a concentrated global effort against a virus that was shutting down economies all across the globe.

well that would make you wonder about the decades of research, fund raisers, pink ribbons, Elton john songs etc , absolute billions gone into a cure and not so much as anything close with HIV..

I know this is a corona virus and not the same but from a time standpoint etc, I don't really think it's a runner for me. I don't agree with the likes pf Donnelly calling different points of view Misinformation whilst he refuses to even share data at this stage, or where the data comes from.

I'll wait in the long grass I suppose and see what happens

allaboutt

schmoo2k wrote: »

Everything you have said is also true for folks who have contracted Covid, we have no long term studies on that either...

There is a very good chance that those opting out of the vaccine you will ultimately get natural immunity anyway, if your opting in good for you, if your not that is fine also.

But I don't get why some folks:
1. Want to "push" their choice to others
2. Make a decision based on non qualified opinions

Great Comment schmoo2k..

1. Educate yourself

2. Encourage open debate
3. Burden of proof that this is safe in long run is with the manfacturers, government etc


If it is safe show us the data why it is safe after 1 year, 2 years etc.

They have come to a conclusion it is safe with only a few months of data.
Show us the data
I do expect it to come out in the next few months the why.

allaboutt

Necro wrote: »

I'll definitely be taking it when it's available to me. Already had Covid back in October but I'd still be taking it because we don't have that much data on reinfection rates yet.

join the club i had it as well.. knocked me out flat for 3 days out for a week ..Mother and father in law got it as well all in 70's . they were knocked out for 2 weeks earlier in the year.. his a smoker.

Wasnt nice but still got over it..we dont think we should be shutting down an economy over it but not getting into that conversation though . i guess theres a seperate thread for that..

Str8outtaWuhan

not something that inspires confidence

https://www.thejournal.ie/covid-vaccine-pregnancy-5300761-Dec2020/

Necro

allaboutt wrote: »

join the club i had it as well.. knocked me out flat for 3 days out for a week ..Mother and father in law got it as well all in 70's . they were knocked out for 2 weeks earlier in the year.. his a smoker.

Wasnt nice but still got over it..we dont think we should be shutting down an economy over it but not getting into that conversation though . i guess theres a seperate thread for that..

Yeah definitely a seperate thread but it isn't fun surely. I actually found the after-effects worse than the actual virus itself, had to go on a dose of very strong steroids to shake the shortness of breath in November, about 4 weeks after I tested positive

The Belly

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

not something that inspires confidence

https://www.thejournal.ie/covid-vaccine-pregnancy-5300761-Dec2020/

It does raise a few questions.

sabat

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

not something that inspires confidence

https://www.thejournal.ie/covid-vaccine-pregnancy-5300761-Dec2020/

How about not getting the vaccine at all and getting pregnant if you want?

schmoo2k

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

Is there a chicken pox vaccine?

Yes

Str8outtaWuhan

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

not something that inspires confidence

https://www.thejournal.ie/covid-vaccine-pregnancy-5300761-Dec2020/

This has been discussed before. The vaccine has not been tested on pregnant women. They are usually among the last in any trial. There is absolutely no reason to believe it is harmful to them. Until we have data to back that up however it will be recommended that pregnant women not receive the vaccine. It's purely precautionary.

allaboutt

Necro wrote: »

Yeah definitely a seperate thread but it isn't fun surely. I actually found the after-effects worse than the actual virus itself, had to go on a dose of very strong steroids to shake the shortness of breath in November, about 4 weeks after I tested positive

nearly 3 months for me and still short of breath but started to clear now in the last week or two.. cough clearing as well..no steriods though..its defn real and not nice so sorry to disapoint those who say it aint ..

allaboutt

Hardyn wrote: »

This has been discussed before. The vaccine has not been tested on pregnant women. They are usually among the last in any trial. There is absolutely no reason to believe it is harmful to them. Until we have data to back that up however it will be recommended that pregnant women not receive the vaccine. It's purely precautionary.

100% all in the fda report...nothing to get concerned with .. pure precautionary..

allaboutt

From CNBC a few hours ago about the Testing Process
Its CNBC youtube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0yGW7ZQuV8

Please scroll to 1 Min 20 sec's about testing ... about 10 secs long.
"The Covid Vaccine did not go through that same long rigourous testing process"

So now that we know it did not go through the long testing process, which was logical when you understand what needs to happen.
We now need to know what data/Stats do they have convince us it safe to take and that we have no long term side affects..
What have we learned from previous trials on mRNA Vaccines?

I think its time to dig out every mRNA Vaccines Trials/tests finding there ever has being

Minier81

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

Is there a chicken pox vaccine?

Yes, it's a 2 dose job, we got it after the standard 6 ones, so at 14 and 15 months. It's on the standard childhood vaccine program in other European countries. Obviously a cost choice for the hse not to give it free here, but in fairness to them chickenpox won't kill you.

Would this mean the tens of thousands who are on the news as positive also dont need a vaccine??. They are as exposed and immune now as those who aim to get it. Seems strange we are hearing of doctors being recruited and huge surveys to convince and sell the vaccine..if its so safe why the hard sell..also if the disease is so indiscriminate and horribly dangerous arnt the state ignoring all the under 16 year olds safety to the point of negligance..such a deadly virus and all..

Doc07

allaboutt wrote: »

Great Comment schmoo2k..

1. Educate yourself

2. Encourage open debate
3. Burden of proof that this is safe in long run is with the manfacturers, government etc


If it is safe show us the data why it is safe after 1 year, 2 years etc.

They have come to a conclusion it is safe with only a few months of data.
Show us the data
I do expect it to come out in the next few months the why.

Google the data, loads has been put in public domain and is easy to find, the trials are in journals and for Covid studies most journals have been made free to access . Also the FDA published lots of the nitty gritty if you are keen to review the data yourself.

If you want to wait for 2 or more years safety follow up that is your right as an individual. However, is it correct to hold up approval and availability to whole populations once efficacy is demonstrated and the safety follow up time covers the period when the vast, vast majority of side effects become known ie within 6 weeks. Of course rare and unexpected side effects may happen when it’s given to millions and that’s why very close follow up and detection is needed and is already planned ,will be implemented and if anything changes in the future the information will be updated. Information on follow up safety plans as well as the known side effects will be published on approval for your perusal

Aoife_croke

braychelsea wrote: »

Creating this thread because the poll on old thread is >6 months old and the main thread on vaccine progress/rollout is being diluted by arguments of people arguing over whether they would take the vaccine and anti-vaxxers.
@mods this okay?

I’m not sure if I’ll take the vaccine or not as I am worried about the side effects I feel as though there is a lot of pressure for the vaccine to be taken in order for the worlds to go back to somewhat normal back I’m not sure if the vaccine will solve the problem immediately. I know a lot of funding went into the research and I don’t doubt that but I’m scared I’ll take it and have health issues in the future