Will you take an approved COVID-19 vaccine?

ceegee

allaboutt wrote: »

I will rerun for other adverse side affects later and post back..

So the NVIC is as nearly accurate as the VAERS but the difference can be due to the time when the reports were executed.

To give a few examples of how unreliable that data is:
It cites 12 cases of birth defects. 4 of those cases are in patients over 65, 1 is in a male patient. Of the 12 cases only 1 was actually relevant (a patient had a miscarriage shortly after vaccination - no indication if its related).

It cites 1 death in a patient under 3 years: Apparently a 1 year old received the vaccine and then shot themselves a few days later. Going to take a wild stab in the dark and say that someone inputted the wrong age there.

The cases of "permanent disability" include a surgeon whos arm was still sore 3 days later. No indication of permanence and seemed to be more recorded for insurance/hr purposes.

Most of the adverse outcomes involving under 18s seems to be 17 year old healthcare workers being given the wrong vaccine due to admin errors with no actual side effects

latency89

Shouldnt the thread title read

When will you have the vaccine, not will you take?

Coming to a country near you soon

Scary stuff

Get treated as a second class citizen just because you don't want a vaccine

Confined to supermarkets and pharmacy

Basket case of a country and all our experts fawning over Israel, sounds like hell on earth over there anyway with all the extremists and cases numbers are mental still 5000 cases after more than 60% vaccinated, was only 8000 cases a day with no one vaccinated

Why does it matter if you don't want a vaccine anyway?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/government-plans-to-punish-businesses-that-serve-unvaccinated-customers-report/

mcsean2163

Yes, yes and yes.

astrofool

latency89 wrote: »

Shouldnt the thread title read

When will you have the vaccine, not will you take?

Coming to a country near you soon

Scary stuff

Get treated as a second class citizen just because you don't want a vaccine

Confined to supermarkets and pharmacy

Basket case of a country and all our experts fawning over Israel, sounds like hell on earth over there anyway with all the extremists and cases numbers are mental still 5000 cases after more than 60% vaccinated, was only 8000 cases a day with no one vaccinated

Why does it matter if you don't want a vaccine anyway?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/government-plans-to-punish-businesses-that-serve-unvaccinated-customers-report/

This post explains so much.

Latency89, have you had vaccines in the past? Are you going to voluntarily take the COVID vaccine?

If not, are you OK being excluded from international travel for the foreseeable future?

Quazzie

latency89 wrote: »

Shouldnt the thread title read

When will you have the vaccine, not will you take?

Coming to a country near you soon

Scary stuff

Get treated as a second class citizen just because you don't want a vaccine

Confined to supermarkets and pharmacy

Basket case of a country and all our experts fawning over Israel, sounds like hell on earth over there anyway with all the extremists and cases numbers are mental still 5000 cases after more than 60% vaccinated, was only 8000 cases a day with no one vaccinated

Why does it matter if you don't want a vaccine anyway?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/government-plans-to-punish-businesses-that-serve-unvaccinated-customers-report/

The vaccine doesn't prevent COVID, but if you look at the deaths in Israel you will see that it does prevent extreme cases of it.

Educate yourself

Quantum Baloney

I'm not sure the legal wrangling needed for the refusal of services to unvaccinated people will be as straightforward as many people on here wish, not least of all because it may not be provable that unvaccinated people provide much greater of a risk to anybody else in light of new strains or sterilizing efficacy of vaccines, particularly in terms of international travel. Being vaccinated is not a dealbreaker if you are still bringing the disease with you on your travels and spreading it local people.

robinph

Being unvaccinated doesn't really matter if you have 90%+ of your local population vaccinated. If you need a vaccine in order to travel somewhere it is going to be because the country you are going to has a low rate of vaccination and covid is rampant and your home country doesn't want to let you back in afterwards without you being vaccinated prior to leaving.

If that is the case you should probably reconsider making that trip.

Quantum Baloney

robinph wrote: »

Being unvaccinated doesn't really matter if you have 90%+ of your local population vaccinated. If you need a vaccine in order to travel somewhere it is going to be because the country you are going to has a low rate of vaccination and covid is rampant and your home country doesn't want to let you back in afterwards without you being vaccinated prior to leaving.

If that is the case you should probably reconsider making that trip.

Absolutely. Countries can make their own demands on what visitors need or don't need on entering their countries as they have always done but the idea that you will be flashing your vaccine passport to go to gigs or to access your place of employment is a development that I think would be fraught with very significant legal problems which will eventually, in my opinion, be insurmountable.

JacksonHeightsOwn

Not taking a vaccine when offered is the equivalent of being in a tug of war team and refusing to pull because "someone else will".

Stop moaning and just chip in ffs

robinph

Using the UK as an example, at the moment nearly 20% of the population is vaccinated but any proof of vaccination status is irrelevant as its still in lockdown. Within another 3 or 4 months at the current rate of stabbing arms and vaccine take up, which is massively more than normal, the whole adult population will have been offered a vaccine and so any proof of vaccination is then irrelevant.

Those intervening couple of months there is no need to prove vaccination status as the country will be going through various stages of releasing lockdown and there will still be limits for everyone in what they can do. Vaccine passport to access services is totally irrelevant. If it is 70-90% effective and similar percentage of the population is vaccinated then that is reaching the herd immunity and the population as a whole is protected. One or two not being vaccinated doesn't really matter to either those few people or the rest of the population.

ExMachina1000

chrisbonnie wrote: »

Not taking a vaccine when offered is the equivalent of being in a tug of war team and refusing to pull because "someone else will".

Stop moaning and just chip in ffs

My body my choice?

drunkmonkey

94 Percent Drop in Symptomatic COVID Cases Seen Among Vaccinated, Biggest Israeli Study Shows
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/biggest-israeli-study-94-drop-in-symptomatic-covid-cases-seen-among-vaccinated-1.9538505

Sounds like good news, I'd query how they can actually tell if it's the vaccine and not lockdown and masks causing the drop in cases. We haven't the vaccine long enough here but had a similar drop in percentage of cases.
Looks like they'll open a lot in the next two weeks, hopefully the numbers hold. https://www.timesofisrael.com/cabinet-compromise-on-reopening-businesses-said-expected-as-morbidity-drops/

astrofool

drunkmonkey wrote: »

94 Percent Drop in Symptomatic COVID Cases Seen Among Vaccinated, Biggest Israeli Study Shows
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/biggest-israeli-study-94-drop-in-symptomatic-covid-cases-seen-among-vaccinated-1.9538505

Sounds like good news, I'd query how they can actually tell if it's the vaccine and not lockdown and masks causing the drop in cases. We haven't the vaccine long enough here but had a similar drop in percentage of cases.
Looks like they'll open a lot in the next two weeks, hopefully the numbers hold. https://www.timesofisrael.com/cabinet-compromise-on-reopening-businesses-said-expected-as-morbidity-drops/

They're able to compare numbers to previous lockdowns, and also other countries that aren't s far ahead with vaccines.

astrofool

robinph wrote: »

Using the UK as an example, at the moment nearly 20% of the population is vaccinated but any proof of vaccination status is irrelevant as its still in lockdown. Within another 3 or 4 months at the current rate of stabbing arms and vaccine take up, which is massively more than normal, the whole adult population will have been offered a vaccine and so any proof of vaccination is then irrelevant.

It will be mostly used for travel, other countries will not want unvaccinated people to travel there, airports don't want to transit people who could be carrying COVID, this will probably last for a couple of years (at least) until the world has been vaccinated.

What's also significant is that 99% of elderly people being offered the vaccine are taking it, implying that:
a) anti-vaxxers grow out of it as the risk of disease to themselves becomes more real
b) anti-vaxxers are selfish and ignore the well being of others
c) they're also pretty stupid as the rate of vaccine rollout has been much faster than those who get the disease, with no deaths associated with the vaccine, and deaths at all ages associated with the disease

robinph

astrofool wrote: »

What's also significant is that 99% of elderly people being offered the vaccine are taking it, implying that:
a) anti-vaxxers grow out of it as the risk of disease to themselves becomes more real
b) anti-vaxxers are selfish and ignore the well being of others
c) they're also pretty stupid as the rate of vaccine rollout has been much faster than those who get the disease, with no deaths associated with the vaccine, and deaths at all ages associated with the disease

It's an amazing percentage take up they have had, way higher that they were expecting. The UK does tend to have the highest take up of seasonal flu vaccine though at 70-75% with Ireland tending to be about 10% less take up. The rest of Europe only around 50% take up.

drunkmonkey

Will they not run into the same problem as Israel, huge early take up but it's stalled at around 50%. Hence they're looking at other measures like only allowing people who've previously had Covid or the vaccine to enter certain places.

We've had 200k cases so we can count them as vaccinated I'd assume.

TheDoctor

I think I was in group 14 or the governments 15 groups. So god knows when I will got offered a jab.

Will have plenty of evidence by then if how it’s working anyway.

Richard Hillman

It's funny that people think that after all the devastation brought to businesses like Clothes shops, Pubs and Restaurants, that they will actually turn away customers because they were not vaccinated. Ain't nobody going to enforce that.

astrofool

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It's funny that people think that after all the devastation brought to businesses like Clothes shops, Pubs and Restaurants, that they will actually turn away customers because they were not vaccinated. Ain't nobody going to enforce that.

I'd imagine it's precisely because of the devastation that people will be turned away.

drunkmonkey

astrofool wrote: »

I'd imagine it's precisely because of the devastation that people will be turned away.

How do you propose they do it, were not going to have a staff member checking previous infection or vaccine status at the door or till, completely unworkable for a lot of business especially all the small ones shut down.

gmisk

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Will they not run into the same problem as Israel, huge early take up but it's stalled at around 50%. Hence they're looking at other measures like only allowing people who've previously had Covid or the vaccine to enter certain places.

We've had 200k cases so we can count them as vaccinated I'd assume.

Just because you have had covid it doesn't mean your immune to getting it again or still carrying or transmitting it I think?
I think some studies say you might only have "some" immunity for roughly 5 months...so not great.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/past-covid-19-infection-provides-some-immunity-but-people-may-still-carry-and-transmit-virus

astrofool

drunkmonkey wrote: »

How do you propose they do it, were not going to have a staff member checking previous infection or vaccine status at the door or till, completely unworkable for a lot of business especially all the small ones shut down.

I don't think they'll do it within countries, but if they do, it won't be hard to do, just as you need an ID to buy drink, you'll need to have a certificate to get in the front door (just as all shops had someone at the door managing customers during busy times).

Irish Aris

astrofool wrote: »

I don't think they'll do it within countries, but if they do, it won't be hard to do, just as you need an ID to buy drink, you'll need to have a certificate to get in the front door (just as all shops had someone at the door managing customers during busy times).

To be honest I don't think this will happen domestically/in retail.
If it does though, I will end up avoiding shops that enforce that. I will definitely get the vaccine as soon as it is offered to me - to protect myself, not to prove anything to anyone. It is a matter of principle. That might be put me in an awkward position as I love going to concerts/cinemas/theatre (it would be one of the top-2 social outlets for me) and if this is enforced in such environments I would have to decide if my principle is more important than losing all my social outlets.

drunkmonkey

gmisk wrote: »

Just because you have had covid it doesn't mean your immune to getting it again or still carrying or transmitting it I think?
I think some studies say you might only have "some" immunity for roughly 5 months...so not great.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/past-covid-19-infection-provides-some-immunity-but-people-may-still-carry-and-transmit-virus

Thet don't know, they've no way to test t-cells as far as I know, Israel always seem to say people vaccinated or previously had it when talking about restrictions on the unvaccinated.

Roger_007

astrofool wrote: »

I don't think they'll do it within countries, but if they do, it won't be hard to do, just as you need an ID to buy drink, you'll need to have a certificate to get in the front door (just as all shops had someone at the door managing customers during busy times).

There will be a thriving market in bogus certificates.

drunkmonkey

Roger_007 wrote: »

There will be a thriving market in bogus certificates.

They look simple copy, facebook is awash with people posting them. Can't see a situation when we'll need them internally in the country.

I regurgitate the news

astrofool wrote: »

I'd imagine it's precisely because of the devastation that people will be turned away.

You think businesses (if they somehow manage to survive this) will refuse income from potential customers?

No chance

robinph

A business where it might possibly be slightly useful to know that everyone has been vaccinated would be a pub or night club, but there is no way that they are going to be checking for valid certs on the way in. All they will need to do is some variation on the current contact tracing setup so that they can confirm who was in on what day... Then if cases pop up linked to that venue people can be contacted. Yes there are holes in that system, but it's far more useful in keeping the venue open and doing what they already are setup to do without excluding anyone or encouraging a new black market in fake certs.

Other types of business where it might be more feasible for them to check vaccine certs because they only see one person at a time would be going to get a hair cut, but why would they need to check for a vaccine cert. They just wear their masks and carry on with cutting peoples hair. Take other precautions and don't worry about fake certificates as it doesn't prove anything much and they will still need to be wearing masks at the moment.

Certificate of vaccination is of no use to anyone other than the person about to stick the second needle in your arm to check which one you already had.

gmisk

gmisk wrote: »

Just because you have had covid it doesn't mean your immune to getting it again or still carrying or transmitting it I think?
I think some studies say you might only have "some" immunity for roughly 5 months...so not great.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/past-covid-19-infection-provides-some-immunity-but-people-may-still-carry-and-transmit-virus

If that's the case then the first timers will need another shot or so by summer before many of us have had a first run around.

It's strange how they can categorically say this when we know so little about it. Like the Mumps, you could have immunity for decades, the beauty is in the not knowing but in that same way, that's how people can make huge claims on efficacy etc..People forget they got conditional approval remember, all the trial details etc has not been submitted. Or I could be wrong now but that's my understanding of it. It's all DATA ON FILE at present.

I regurgitate the news

For anyone that's interested here is a breakdown of the side effects and deaths related to the Pfizer vaccine between 9/12/20 and 31/01/21 in the UK..

The Source is below

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/960150/COVID-19_mRNA_Pfizer_BioNTech_vaccine_analysis_print.pdf

59614 disorders and 143 deaths

Less deaths with the AstraZeneca...Only 90 for the same period but not sure on the total number of the case study. Perhaps someone can advise

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/960151/COVID-19_AstraZeneca_Vaccine_Analysis_Print.pdf