Diego Armando Maradona 1960 - 2020

partyguinness

I have to admit I was never Zidane's greatest fan.

Personally I thought he tended to drift in and out of games too much and gave away the ball a lot.

partyguinness

I'll tell you who was a fine fine player. Another Argentinian: Fernando Redondo.

breezy1985

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

He was an unapologetic lefty, which in my eyes makes him even more of a legend.

Isn't this part of his whole mystique in Argentina. The poor kid who never forget his roots. I don't know if it's actually true or not but I heard stories that through out their careers Tevez got a lot more love than Messi from the Argentine fans because he is a true barrio kid

partyguinness

breezy1985 wrote: »

Isn't this part of his whole mystique in Argentina. The poor kid who never forget his roots. I don't know if it's actually true or not but I heard stories that through out their careers Tevez got a lot more love than Messi from the Argentine fans because he is a true barrio kid

I think a lot of the antipathy toward Messi stems from the fact he left Argentina when he was 12 and has never played club football in Argentina. So there is a definite lack of "love".

Messi burst onto the scene with Barcelona in a different country in a different continent rather than say River Plate or Boca.

fonecrusher1

Snickers Man wrote: »

The great soccer writer Brian Glanville, was fond of pointing out that one of the game's enduring attractions was that physique does not make the footballer. I think, in general, he's right although that may be changing with the increased emphasis on a scientific approach, ie statistical, approach to identifying and grooming young talent.

Write down a list of the very greatest players from the past 50 years. Any list would surely include:
Lionel Messi
Cristiano Ronaldo
Zinnedine Zidane
Diego Maradona
Johan Cruyff
Franz Beckenbauer
Pele

Ah for god sake what about Tony Cascarino?

Snickers Man

US2 wrote: »

Add Gerd Muller and Eusabio to that list ahead of Zidane

breezy1985 wrote: »

And Maldini ahead of both of them. Best players ever doesn't have to be forwards with token Beckenbauer

My list was in no way meant to be exhaustive, but the names you added just strengthened my point: Muller a stocky little short ass, lethal over 10m but without the sustained speed to play anywhere else; Eusebio a massive powerful athlete who was just the sort of stereotype that youth team coaches for the big clubs go for nowadays.

billyhead

partyguinness wrote: »

I'll tell you who was a fine fine player. Another Argentinian: Fernando Redondo.

Over rated

andekwarhola

Dempo1 wrote: »

Don't mean to be insensitive but does this sad news warrant being the main headline on both the main evening news bulletins, just seems extraordinary with what is going on in the world but more importantly closer to home, Patricia Carrick"s Death, 2 homeless men found dead on the streets of our capital city (One just a few yards from the Dail)

Maybe I'm wrong but WTF is going on in the crazy world.

You care as little for the individual fates of those poor men as you do Maradona. It's just a rhetorical launchpad for whatever clumsy student virtue signal you're running with.

COVID

andekwarhola wrote: »

You care as little for the individual fates of those poor men as you do Maradona. It's just a rhetorical launchpad for whatever clumsy student virtue signal you're running with.

Have you ever tried walking with a clumsy student virtue signal, never mind running?

Maradona, however, could dribble through a packed defence before chipping over the bemused goalkeeper..... with a student virtue signal delicately balanced on the tip of his nose.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Snickers Man wrote: »

Write down a list of the very greatest players from the past 50 years. Any list would surely include:
Lionel Messi
Cristiano Ronaldo
Zinnedine Zidane
Diego Maradona
Johan Cruyff
Franz Beckenbauer
Pele

Fat Ronaldo
Puskas
Zoff
Garrincha
Best etc

Most wud prob put similar in their top 50, assuming they have some knowledge of the all-time greats.

The very best ever is subjective but you'd assume wud come from list of Maradona, Pele, Messi, Ronaldo x2 etc.

A lot depends on who the first player was to make your jaw hit the floor as a young fella.

My pick is Maradona as I watched Mexico '86 as a young fella, amazed at what he could do.

Man Vs ManUre

Channel 4 showing his film tonight. They premiered it back in March/April and I watched it. A really great film.

Man Vs ManUre

In fairness I think Messi is the greatest player to have played the game. And cannot imagine anyone as good to come along. He will get one more crack at a World Cup in Qatar in ‘22 and for this reason alone I hope he wins it, even if Ireland qualify!!

Girly Gal

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

In fairness I think Messi is the greatest player to have played the game. And cannot imagine anyone as good to come along. He will get one more crack at a World Cup in Qatar in ‘22 and for this reason alone I hope he wins it, even if Ireland qualify!!

It's very difficult to compare eras, Messi and Ronaldo can be compared fairly well as they have played against the same players and teams with the same conditions etc, trying to compare Maradona with Messi is impossible, completely different eras, different players, different teams, fitness regimes etc. Maradona played at a time when defenders could brutally hack down forwards, pitch surfaces weren't half as good as they are now, even the ball has improved beyond compare.
Both Messi and Ronaldo play in near perfect conditions and with teams packed with the best players in the world.
Maradona brought an ordinary Argentina to world cup success. He also turned Napoli from also rans to challenge and overcome the great AC Milan star studded side of the late 80's. I'm not sure either Messi or Ronaldo could repeat Maradona's success with a team like Napoli and Messi hasn't been able to bring success to Argentina despite having some very good players like Aguero, Mascherano & Di Maria.
What Maradona lacked was someone to look out for him off the pitch, I think if he was playing now, his club would look after him better and he wouldn't have went of the rails in the way that he did.
It's impossible to say who is the best player ever, even today some perfer Ronaldo over Messi., others think Brazilian Ronaldo is better than Cristiano.
I think most would agree that Maradona, Pele, Messi and the 2 Ronaldos are probably above the rest, in what order is subjective and will be debated forever.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

In fairness I think Messi is the greatest player to have played the game. And cannot imagine anyone as good to come along. He will get one more crack at a World Cup in Qatar in ‘22 and for this reason alone I hope he wins it, even if Ireland qualify!!

Messi is playing in an era where the tackle has been all but outlawed.

As the lads on OTB said, Maradona was playing a different sport to the lads today

AndyBoBandy

Fairly mad goings on in Argentina.....

3 workers at the funeral home looking after Maradona prior to his funeral & burial decided it would be a good idea to open his casket and take selfie’s with him.

Naturally the Boca Juniors Ultras didn’t appreciate this so killed 2 of the workers, and the 3rd is currently in hospital in critical condition.

Arghus

_Brian wrote: »

Another example of a fine talent fckued up by drugs.

When i see his name two things spring to mind, hand of god (cheater) and drugs. Not the legacy he could have left but those were his choices.

If those are the two first things that come to your mind then you're not really a fan of football to be honest.

Trouser Snake

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Fairly mad goings on in Argentina.....

3 workers at the funeral home looking after Maradona prior to his funeral & burial decided it would be a good idea to open his casket and take selfie’s with him.

Naturally the Boca Juniors Ultras didn’t appreciate this so killed 2 of the workers, and the 3rd is currently in hospital in critical condition.

That WhatsApp was from last March I heard.

Thelonious Monk

The whatsapp was fake about the dudes being murdered.
The recent Diego doc just started on C4 if anyone's interested.

Trouser Snake

Diego the insecure boy and Maradonna the football superstar. Good documentary so far, the Napoli president's defence at the introductory press conference must have been music to his ears after Barcelona.

Montage of Feck

"Rebel. Cheat. Hero. God. Perhaps the best player in history; but the price was too high...."

Trouser Snake

Learnt a lot there. Fame didn't suit him, heart of a lion though. Like a lot of sports superstars, a victim of his own success. RIP.

Girly Gal

Trouser Snake wrote: »

Learnt a lot there. Fame didn't suit him, heart of a lion though. Like a lot of sports superstars, a victim of his own success. RIP.

Agree with you there, in the end he had no one to look out for him off the pitch, he knew that too, but, couldn't help himself. As he said himself he was greeted at Napoli by 85,000 fans, but, was on his own when he left.
He was happiest on the pitch, no player soared so high, yet fell so far. He had a remarkably tough life with almost constant turmoil, a lot of it self inflicted, but, he leaves behind so many beautiful memories and was adored and revered by millions across the world. Don't think we'll see his likes again, no player will make the impact he did both on and off the pitch.
I hope he's finally at peace now.

Thelonious Monk

Isn't it amazing how mobbed he was constantly by the press and people in general? It's really like The Beatles level of fame. He actually didn't do too bad considering, for a boy from the slums.
When he said he played every Sunday and then did coke and partied till Wednesday before getting his sh*t together for the match... sounds a bit like me in my younger days trying to hold down a normal job, lol, but still the fact he was as good as he was even when he was partying is incredible!

Strumms

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

In fairness I think Messi is the greatest player to have played the game. And cannot imagine anyone as good to come along. He will get one more crack at a World Cup in Qatar in ‘22 and for this reason alone I hope he wins it, even if Ireland qualify!!

It would would be something seeing Messi lift the World Cup... Argentina are always for whatever reason the non Irish team I support.

Looking at their squad though,

Messi 34 almost, Aguero 33... you’d wonder where goals will come from...

Dybala tears it up at club level for Juve but has struggled internationally for goals... 2 in 27 caps and he’s a forward or attacking midfielder. 68 goals in 165 games for Juve. He is 27 so AT his prime....needs to take his club form onto the international stage.

Thelonious Monk

Strumms wrote: »

It would would be something seeing Messi lift the World Cup... Argentina are always for whatever reason the non Irish team I support.

Looking at their squad though,

Messi 34 almost, Aguero 33... you’d wonder where goals will come from...

Dybala tears it up at club level for Juve but has struggled internationally for goals... 2 in 27 caps and he’s a forward or attacking midfielder. 68 goals in 165 games for Juve. He is 27 so AT his prime....needs to take his club form onto the international stage.

Do you remember Ariel Ortega in what must have been the 98 World Cup? Ball just stuck to his feet, unbelievable player, I don't think he ever did that much in the end though.

dasdog

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's really like The Beatles level of fame.

It was Elvis or Michael Jackson levels of fame, one person. You'd need to be mentally strong as phuck for that onslaught. It's why he get's a pass on his mad behaviour and he'll be remembered for his skill.

Strumms

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Do you remember Ariel Ortega in what must have been the 98 World Cup? Ball just stuck to his feet, unbelievable player, I don't think he ever did that much in the end though.

Yep, that’s a name I haven’t heard in ages, he was a skillful dude and more a playmaker but he played in 3 world cups.. ‘94, ‘98 and ‘02.

Thelonious Monk

Strumms wrote: »

Yep, that’s a name I haven’t heard in ages, he was a skillful dude and more a playmaker but he played in 3 world cups.. ‘94, ‘98 and ‘02.

I didn't think he was that old. I saw Boca Juniors in 2009 in the Bombanera and Riquelme was playing, he was amazing too.

twowheelsonly

Spent too long at Napoli IMO.

It both made him and broke him. It appeared that he wanted to leave to 'save himself from himself' but wasn't able to do so before it was too late.

To be at that level must be absolutely horrendous as regards having any sort of private life or getting any chance to relax. To be at a stage where your face is known worldwide and you can't hop on a plane, pop into a shop, go for a meal or take a walk around town or your local park just wouldn't be for me.

Maradona was undoubtedly the best of his generation but for me (in my mid-50s') he's also the best that I've ever seen. My first favourites were the likes of Pele, Deyna and Charlie George but in my mind Maradona was just something else. Messi, Ronaldo etc are all great but it's a different game now with a lot more protection for the class players. They still get kicked but nowhere near the extent that Maradona or Pele did before them. Tackles are barely allowed now without a whistle and a card. Can you imagine what Maradona would have been like if you weren't allowed tackle him !!

Thelonious Monk

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Can you imagine what Maradona would have been like if you weren't allowed tackle him !!

I love how he didn't dive much either when he was tackled he'd get back up and run with the ball, you never see that nowadays

simongurnick

Diego was small, but he was a little tank. His thighs were like tree trunks.

Man Vs ManUre

I honk Argentina should have won the World Cup in 2006. This was the team of Pablo Aimar, Ayala at the back, Cambiasso in midfield, but the jewel in their team was Riquelme. What a player he was, not as good as maradona but if ever a player connected a team together it was him. I think they were knocked out my Germany.

breezy1985

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Isn't it amazing how mobbed he was constantly by the press and people in general? It's really like The Beatles level of fame. He actually didn't do too bad considering, for a boy from the slums.
When he said he played every Sunday and then did coke and partied till Wednesday before getting his sh*t together for the match... sounds a bit like me in my younger days trying to hold down a normal job, lol, but still the fact he was as good as he was even when he was partying is incredible!

The clips of those slums was shocking. Ive seen clips of barrios around South America before but never one that bad with just those little tin sheds.


Another thing really makes me angry s the amount of those crowds that mobbed that were adults. Christ like get a hold of yourself and dont be screaming for some lad to write his name on a bit of paper for you

captbarnacles

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

I honk Argentina should have won the World Cup in 2006. This was the team of Pablo Aimar, Ayala at the back, Cambiasso in midfield, but the jewel in their team was Riquelme. What a player he was, not as good as maradona but if ever a player connected a team together it was him. I think they were knocked out my Germany.

They were and inexplicably Messi did not get on the pitch that game. Crazy decision. Used all subs on other players. I am adamant Argentina would have won that game if Messi had started or even been brought on for overtime.

breezy1985

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

I honk Argentina should have won the World Cup in 2006. This was the team of Pablo Aimar, Ayala at the back, Cambiasso in midfield, but the jewel in their team was Riquelme. What a player he was, not as good as maradona but if ever a player connected a team together it was him. I think they were knocked out my Germany.

In fairness the Italian team was amazing looking back. Compare the players you listed to Pirlo, Cannavaro, Buffon, Totti, Gattuso, Zambrotta and Del Piero and Inzaghi on the bench

Mad_maxx

watched the movie about him from a year ago last night , i visited Argentina in 2004 for eight days , Took a tour around the capital and we stopped briefly at the area where Maradona was born , to describe it as a shanty town would not be an exaggeration , the movie last night confirmed this , he came from abject poverty , the bit where his sister explained how important it was for the family when Maradona got signed by a big club at fifteen and they were able to move to a nice apartment close to where Diego trained was very moving , his parents were decent but horribly poor people

Maradona can be forgiven for his sins based on his sheer talent and the fact he came from such absolutely wretched poverty , incredibly poor even by the standards of a relatively poor country in south america

i came away from the movie believing he was a good soul , his life was insane from the moment his amazing talent was discovered

Mad_maxx

Girly Gal wrote: »

It's very difficult to compare eras, Messi and Ronaldo can be compared fairly well as they have played against the same players and teams with the same conditions etc, trying to compare Maradona with Messi is impossible, completely different eras, different players, different teams, fitness regimes etc. Maradona played at a time when defenders could brutally hack down forwards, pitch surfaces weren't half as good as they are now, even the ball has improved beyond compare.
Both Messi and Ronaldo play in near perfect conditions and with teams packed with the best players in the world.
Maradona brought an ordinary Argentina to world cup success. He also turned Napoli from also rans to challenge and overcome the great AC Milan star studded side of the late 80's. I'm not sure either Messi or Ronaldo could repeat Maradona's success with a team like Napoli and Messi hasn't been able to bring success to Argentina despite having some very good players like Aguero, Mascherano & Di Maria.
What Maradona lacked was someone to look out for him off the pitch, I think if he was playing now, his club would look after him better and he wouldn't have went of the rails in the way that he did.
It's impossible to say who is the best player ever, even today some perfer Ronaldo over Messi., others think Brazilian Ronaldo is better than Cristiano.
I think most would agree that Maradona, Pele, Messi and the 2 Ronaldos are probably above the rest, in what order is subjective and will be debated forever.

Maradona had incredible charisma and an all encompassing stature , he was a born leader , Messi has no charisma , he is a dull character , Ronaldo is of course amazing but he is an ego driven individual , he is not a leader of men like Maradonna was , when Portugal won in 2016 , he was replaced early in the final due to injury , neither would have been able to drag their nations or clubs to success more or less by themselves like Maradona did through both talent and sheer force of personality

Mad_maxx

breezy1985 wrote: »

The clips of those slums was shocking. Ive seen clips of barrios around South America before but never one that bad with just those little tin sheds.


Another thing really makes me angry s the amount of those crowds that mobbed that were adults. Christ like get a hold of yourself and dont be screaming for some lad to write his name on a bit of paper for you

i was there in 2004 and it had not improved much

breezy1985

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Maradona had incredible charisma and an all encompassing stature , he was a born leader , Messi has no charisma , he is a dull character , Ronaldo is of course amazing but he is an ego driven individual , he is not a leader of men like Maradonna was , when Portugal won in 2016 , he was replaced early in the final due to injury , neither would have been able to drag their nations or clubs to success more or less by themselves like Maradona did through both talent and sheer force of personality

i disagree about Ronaldo. He was a little childish brat at United but has matured a lot and is defiantly looked up to as captain in Portugal and you always see him encouraging players at international matches.


Overall though I have never warmed to either Ronaldo or Messi and cant stand the teams they play for either so I have sat out the whole whos the best ever stuff. They probably are the 2 best ever but neither will ever be as interesting as Maradonna or as cool as this guy

Hyperbollix

Looking at the documentary, it would make you wonder what way things would have went for Maradona had he got a transfer to somewhere a little less chaotic than Italy and Napoli specifically.

Would a young Alex Ferguson or Kenny Dalglish have managed to keep him on the straight and narrow or would his personality have meant no matter where he went, he was destined to implode eventually.

Mad_maxx

breezy1985 wrote: »

i disagree about Ronaldo. He was a little childish brat at United but has matured a lot and is defiantly looked up to as captain in Portugal and you always see him encouraging players at international matches.


Overall though I have never warmed to either Ronaldo or Messi and cant stand the teams they play for either so I have sat out the whole whos the best ever stuff. They probably are the 2 best ever but neither will ever be as interesting as Maradonna or as cool as this guy

Pirlo was a thing of exquisite beauty with a football in the way only Italians can be

I love Ronaldo and believe he is better than Messi but he's below Maradona

breezy1985

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Pirlo was a thing of exquisite beauty with a football in the way only Italians can be

I love Ronaldo and believe he is better than Messi but he's below Maradona

I feel the skill and attitude have flipped and would say Messi when young but Ronaldo in their later careers.

But watching all the docs recently would remind you how hard the likes of Madonna had to be. The lads now get fouled but he was getting assaulted

Mad_maxx

breezy1985 wrote: »

I feel the skill and attitude have flipped and would say Messi when young but Ronaldo in their later careers.

But watching all the docs recently would remind you how hard the likes of Madonna had to be. The lads now get fouled but he was getting assaulted

watching the movie last night and englands Terry Fenwick more or less elbowed him in the face during that 86 QF

Feenix

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Do you remember Ariel Ortega in what must have been the 98 World Cup? Ball just stuck to his feet, unbelievable player, I don't think he ever did that much in the end though.

I saw him score a mental goal in Lansdowne Road against Ireland; he chipped about 4 players I think. I remember thinking at the time that he was the best player I had seen live.

He did have a good career after too. Just didn't hang around Europe too long, he bounced around a bit, not sure why.

Fuascailteoir

I am not sure why it is said that getting involved with the mafia in naples led to ruin. Was it because they supplied him with coke and hookers? Or were they taking his money or what?

Feenix

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

I am not sure why it is said that getting involved with the mafia in naples led to ruin. Was it because they supplied him with coke and hookers? Or were they taking his money or what?

They were getting him completely out of his banger

Fuascailteoir

Feenix wrote: »

They were getting him completely out of his banger

Ah so ease of supply. I thought it was a shake down or something and left him broke.

Man Vs ManUre

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

Ah so ease of supply. I thought it was a shake down or something and left him broke.

Wasn’t it the Italian taxman that left him broke??

AndyBoBandy

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

Ah so ease of supply. I thought it was a shake down or something and left him broke.

Maradona was a good name to be seen with. He was the most famous footballer (and probably man) on the planet at the time.

You’d understand why anyone and everyone would want to be associated with him and seen with him.

Similar (albeit on a much smaller scale) to the connections of a certain Dublin crime gang to a well known Irish MMA star....

And then also the mob connections to Frank Sinatra....

It facilitates access to the upper echelons of areas & industries where these people otherwise couldn’t penetrate.

greenspurs

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Maradona was a good name to be seen with. He was the most famous footballer (and probably man) on the planet at the time.

You’d understand why anyone and everyone would want to be associated with him and seen with him.

Similar (albeit on a much smaller scale) to the connections of a certain Dublin crime gang to a well known Irish MMA star....

And then also the mob connections to Frank Sinatra....

It facilitates access to the upper echelons of areas & industries where these people otherwise couldn’t penetrate.

i think this thread is heading the same way as Diego .... :rolleyes: