Covid 19 Part XXIX-85,394 ROI(2,200 deaths) 62,723 NI (1,240 deaths) (26/12) Read OP

fly_agaric

caveat emptor wrote: »

I'm not cynical I trust it but I prefer verification. Usually when two or more parties make an agreement there is a legal document or a statute to fall back on or some other form of recourse. As we saw we PPE there was none so it was a case of suck it up buttercup.

There is information about agreement between EU Commission and member states on how the vaccine doses will be distributed on the Europa website.
Below are links I found but have not read the pdf (2nd link below) in detail.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_1903

https://ec.europa.eu/health/sites/health/files/vaccination/docs/2020_strategies_deployment_en.pdf

However as I understand it, the EU has no competency for public health in the member states so there is no EU "treaty" to refer to here, no regulations/directives etc.

growleaves

So if you don't want to take the vaccine, I'd keep that fairly quiet. I'd be telling all and sundry that you are absolutely going to take the vaccine and how selfish it would be not to take it.

Except its wrong to lie, and to advocate for something you yourself don't believe in.

is_that_so

Article on the CSO data on how people are coping.

A survey by the Central Statistics Office on the well-being and lifestyle of people under Level 5 restrictions has found that 11.5% of respondents felt downhearted, or depressed, all or most of the time.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1130/1181399-cso-covid-19/

wes

JDD wrote: »

The government might make the vaccine mandatory. There may be a fine if you choose not to get the vaccine with no valid medical reason.

I don't want to freak anyone out. And I know that libertarians will be raging about this. But if there's a low uptake of the vaccine (like, less than 70%) it is certainly open to the government to make the vaccine mandatory. Our constitution protects bodily integrity, but only to the point where the interference is not validly justified, or is disproportionate. The courts have - pre-Covid - stated in the past that mandatory vaccination could be justified in circumstances where there is an outbreak of a contagious disease. So it's really unlikely that the courts would shoot down any mandatory vaccination law.

So if you don't want to take the vaccine, I'd keep that fairly quiet. I'd be telling all and sundry that you are absolutely going to take the vaccine and how selfish it would be not to take it. And then hope that enough people do take the vaccine so that no mandatory law comes in.

No need to make it mandatory. The government can make it legal for employers to fire people who refuse to take one without a medical reason, and they can refuse social welfare for those who refuse one without a medical reason etc.

Also, there will be peer pressure as well that can be encouraged via ad campaigns etc, where they can vilify anti-vaxers the same way drunk drivers are.

JDD

growleaves wrote: »

Except its wrong to lie, and to advocate for something you yourself don't believe in.

It's also wrong to do nothing to prevent yourself from infecting a vulnerable person with a serious illness. But I suppose there are scales of wrong here.

JDD

is_that_so wrote: »

Until social media or court cases take them to task!

Courts could do nothing. Discrimination on the basis of health status is allowed.

JDD

wes wrote: »

No need to make it mandatory. The government can make it legal for employers to fire people who refuse to take one without a medical reason, and they can refuse social welfare for those who refuse one without a medical reason etc.

Also, there will be peer pressure as well that can be encouraged via ad campaigns etc, where they can vilify anti-vaxers the same way drunk drivers are.

You are probably right. The above scenarios are way more likely than a mandatory vaccination law.

terenc

Deleted User wrote: »

I have no doubt that an immunisation certificate will be required to travel outside of the EU. That will be a big incentive for many

And for non EU citizens to travel into the EU

Absolutely , a huge chunk of the population will have no other choice but to vaccinate if they want to travel to another country in Europe or else where in the world whether it is the Cheltenham Festival (the English will not allow that to happen again when vaccination will be available) or a skiing holiday in Italy.

podgeandrodge

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Assuming the vaccine goes to elderly and expressly vulnerable, death rates should plummet close to zero no? Vast majority of deaths over 80.

So in a scenario where deaths are negligible in terms of normal mortality rates, I can't see it being mandatory for those others who are unlikely to have severe symptoms.

I'm not anti vax, bit would be very anti mandatory vax.

Can see airlines making it mandatory though in which case it might be something that isn't legally mandatory but mandatory in practical terms.

The higher the number of people who remain unvaccinated, the more infections will occur, and no matter how minor these are, the chance of a mutation that impacts how the virus infects its host emerging is increasing all the time. What a new variant resistant to the vaccine needs to emerge is lots of hosts for chance mutations to occur and one of these strains to become endemic. If a large majority have been vaccinated the odds of one of these strains emerging is lowered and the odds of one of these strains becoming endemic if it does emerge are also lower.

I don't believe in mandatory vaccination either, however I do believe in highlighting the selfishness or ignorance of those who refuse vaccination

eagle eye

30 years ago almost everybody would get the vaccine as soon as it became available. Social media has changed that because many less intelligent people are easily influenced by agenda driven organisers.

growleaves

Stephen Donnelly rejected making the vaccine mandatory 2 hours ago.

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly rejected making the vaccine mandatory 2 hours ago.

There is zero legal basis for making any vaccine mandatory.

What there will be is a series of restrictions on unvaccinated individuals that will likely encourage most to get it. That may include restrictions on foreign travel, attendance at large events such as concerts and sports events, access to employment in certain areas such as healthcare, teaching, food processing.

JDD

the chance of a mutation that impacts how the virus infects its host emerging is increasing all the time.

Isn't it much more likely that the virus would mutate into something less serious rather than more serious? I'm not saying that it's impossible for it to get more serious, but I think it's more likely that it would mutate in the other direction.

Mandatory vaccination is an uncomfortable subject for any government to talk about. It conjures ideas of doctors holding you down and jabbing you, when in fact it is more likely to be a once off €50 fine. Not enough of a fine to encourage those who truly believe that its a bad idea to take the vaccine, but enough for the "I couldn't be bothered" brigade to turn up at the pharmacy.

That being said, it's not a law I would want to be in place unless we really really needed it.

ACitizenErased

Throw the tinfoil hats away lads, it won't be mandatory.

eigrod

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1333417661548670976?s=21

Could be high number tonight. I make out there were 237 more positive swabs announced than cases announced in the 7 days to Saturday 28th

MerlinSouthDub

eigrod wrote: »

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1333417661548670976?s=21

Could be high number tonight. I make out there were 237 more positive swabs announced than cases announced in the 7 days to Saturday 28th

Could be, but we don't know either yesterday or today's swabs yet.

is_that_so

JDD wrote: »

Courts could do nothing. Discrimination on the basis of health status is allowed.

It's not even done with measles which needs 90%+ for herd immunity, so that's shaky ground. Any government trying to push us down that path is onto a loser politically and unquestionably would see legal challenges, never mind a media onslaught. They'd struggle just to get it through the Dail. As an approach it's like taking mallet to flatten a pancake because we will get to at least 50% and above.

ACitizenErased

eigrod wrote: »

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1333417661548670976?s=21

Could be high number tonight. I make out there were 237 more positive swabs announced than cases announced in the 7 days to Saturday 28th

The HPSC must take weeks off sometimes

PMBC

I think one of the Sunday papaers carried a survey that showed a very high percentage of people planned to take the vaccine

Stheno

PMBC wrote: »

I think one of the Sunday papaers carried a survey that showed a very high percentage of people planned to take the vaccine

The Indo think it was 74%

is_that_so

Meanwhile in Spain!

The Spanish government has called on people to behave responsibly and use their “common sense” after pictures over the weekend showed the streets of Madrid and other big cities heaving with crowds despite the country’s ongoing struggle with the second wave of the coronavirus.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/30/spain-appeals-for-covid-common-sense-after-weekend-crowd-scenes

froog

eagle eye wrote: »

30 years ago almost everybody would get the vaccine as soon as it became available. Social media has changed that because many less intelligent people are easily influenced by agenda driven organisers.

yup. there's a good few people i know now that have become radicalised from facebook over the last year, latching on to every single conspiracy theory going, anti vaccine stuff, hilary clinton, bill gates, you name it. previously these people were sensible, rational people. there is zero convincing them otherwise. it's really sad to see.

What Username Guidelines

On mobile so can’t see Sunday’s swabs but last 24hrs is just 190, 2.1% positive.

Edit: 338 on Sunday.

mightyreds

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

On mobile so can’t see Sunday’s swabs but last 24hrs is just 190, 2.1% positive.

Edit: 338 on Sunday.

Theres enough of a backlog there to crank the worry meter right up today.

KrustyUCC

Yes there could be quite a large number due and we haven't opened a single thing yet

frank8211

didyoufart? wrote: »

Cases in Kilkenny linked back to a primary school.

One specific case in my locality the parent got infected by the child and passed it onto 9 work colleagues.

Mass tested the school now as well. No wonder the numbers are so high when there covering up the school data like theirs no tomorrow.

Is the school in Kilkenny city or county. Is that why the numbers shot up there

Deeper Blue

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40110698.html

Wouldn't you think that by now newspapers and news outlets would have learned not to print pictures of people wearing masks incorrectly?

There seems to be more pictures of people with masks under the nose/chin than of people wearing them properly

MerlinSouthDub

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Yes there could be quite a large number due and we haven't opened a single thing yet

I guess it could have been worse. We could have had 300 swabs today plus the backlog, could have been 500+ cases! Good to see swabs below 200 today anyway, and hopefully they will fall this week.

Deeper Blue

The CSO says mental health and morale have "dropped significantly" in recent months

Is it any wonder with the way the media are reporting things?

didyoufart?

frank8211 wrote: »

Is the school in Kilkenny city or county. Is that why the numbers shot up there

If the mods will let me post ill post it.

Stheno

El Sueño wrote: »

The CSO says mental health and morale have "dropped significantly" in recent months

Is it any wonder with the way the media are reporting things?

Think there's more to it than that tbh

I know that while I've adapted to wfh all of the time, I miss interacting with people in person and it makes me feel down much more than media reporting

My Oh is really struggling with the isolation which I also find hard as I'm the one trying to support him also

yourdeadwright

So what the story with pubs and restaurants are there time limits and is it booking only ?

Stheno

yourdeadwright wrote: »

So what the story with pubs and restaurants are there time limits and is it booking only ?

One of our locals is doing walk ins only

Always_Running

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

last 24hrs is just 190, 2.1% positive.

Good start to the new week.

podgeandrodge

yourdeadwright wrote: »

So what the story with pubs and restaurants are there time limits and is it booking only ?

No time limits if they keep 2m as per previous rules i read somewhere

screamer

also in kilkenny county a person working in doctors surgery contracted covid, the numbers in the locality also shot up, but thats what a virus does, it transmits.

Goldengirl

is_that_so wrote: »

No vaccine is mandatory. If they were we wouldn't have measles outbreaks so why do you imagine they'd do it here?

If measles were of pandemic proportions it might be .
Not saying this will be made mandatory but if there isn't a high enough uptake to generate herd immunity who knows what measures may be taken by governments .
I would not rule it out .

Edit I doubt that there will be a need in Ireland despite what some say here, and I very much doubt that any Irish government would go that far .
It will be the social pressure that endures the undecided will get vaccinated, so that they can go to a gig or travel with friends to countries like Australia or New Zealand etc.
Also noises being made by employers wanting their present and prospective employees vaccinated.
I know jobs in healthcare will depend on immunity, as in the necessity to have hepatitis , chicken pox and other jabs up to date to work in the sector .

igCorcaigh

Why would there be a need for herd immunity if the vaccine is available for those who want it?
Is it because that some people can't take the vaccine because of medical reasons?

didyoufart?

Eod100 wrote: »

Vaccine needs to reach 60-70% of population to be effective so not really about whether someone personally needs it or not. It's about people doing their bit to protect others and limit transmission as much as possible.

50% of deaths are from nursing homes. How about starting there and blaming the government with their incompetence regarding nursing homes. Mandatory testing should of happening of all staff and residents like professional sports athletes.

Look what happened with the swine flu vacinne and the side effects that destroyed lives so I will certainly not be taking it for the first couple of years at least.

If the government really wanted to eradicate the virus theyd have shut the schools and get the numbers down to 50 again like the summer until the vacinne is out. Would closing the schools for another six months really had made that much of a difference.

The death toll in Ireland is lower than last year but the media doesn't tell you that.

Most Covid deaths people had an underlying illness like heart disease. If you have an underlying illness protect yourself.

Media are great at scaremongering.

Russman

Stheno wrote: »

Think there's more to it than that tbh

I know that while I've adapted to wfh all of the time, I miss interacting with people in person and it makes me feel down much more than media reporting

Ya, I don't think its necessarily any one aspect, its the whole 9 months and the cumulative effect of everything. I mean if someone had said at Christmas last year how this year would turn out they'd have been locked up.
We're all basically the first generation who haven't really had a major world event that caused massive upheaval. Most generations, say prior to the 1950s, had some class of a war or conflict or even a pandemic to deal with. Pretty much 70 years of relative peace and prosperity (thankfully) and its caught us all on the hop.

Loafing Oaf

froog wrote: »

every single conspiracy theory going, anti vaccine stuff, hilary clinton, bill gates,

Since when did Mr Microsoft become Dr Evil. Maybe too many people watched

at an impressionable age...

frank8211

didyoufart? wrote: »

If the mods will let me post ill post it.

Was just wondering if its in north of county where there is big cluster in a school with subsequent knock on consequences locally . That's a 2nd level school though

JDD

JDD wrote: »

Isn't it much more likely that the virus would mutate into something less serious rather than more serious? I'm not saying that it's impossible for it to get more serious, but I think it's more likely that it would mutate in the other direction.

Mandatory vaccination is an uncomfortable subject for any government to talk about. It conjures ideas of doctors holding you down and jabbing you, when in fact it is more likely to be a once off €50 fine. Not enough of a fine to encourage those who truly believe that its a bad idea to take the vaccine, but enough for the "I couldn't be bothered" brigade to turn up at the pharmacy.

That being said, it's not a law I would want to be in place unless we really really needed it.

Not more serious or less serious, just a specific mutation to the way the virus enters cells and causes infection

KrustyUCC

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

I guess it could have been worse. We could have had 300 swabs today plus the backlog, could have been 500+ cases! Good to see swabs below 200 today anyway, and hopefully they will fall this week.

100%

Loafing Oaf

didyoufart? wrote: »

50% of deaths are from nursing homes. How about starting there and blaming the government with their incompetence regarding nursing homes.

All countries where the virus spread widely lost a lot of nursing home residents. In retrospect ultra-drastic steps should have been taken like isolating the entire 'community' and requiring anyone like HCWs going in to wear full PPE. But would staff have been prepared to do that?

igCorcaigh

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

All countries where the virus spread widely lost a lot of nursing home residents. In retrospect ultra-drastic steps should have been taken like isolating the entire 'community' and requiring anyone like HCWs going in to wear full PPE. But would staff have been prepared to do that?

Perhaps they should have been removed from the homes and placed in dedicated hospital care with stricter controls?
I'm not sure, but lots of countries made mistakes with this. Very regrettable.

Goldengirl

El Sueño wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40110698.html

Wouldn't you think that by now newspapers and news outlets would have learned not to print pictures of people wearing masks incorrectly?

There seems to be more pictures of people with masks under the nose/chin than of people wearing them properly

Those two are pictured outdoors in a practically empty street!

is_that_so

Goldengirl wrote: »

If measles were of pandemic proportions it might be .
Not saying this will be made mandatory but if there isn't a high enough uptake to generate herd immunity who knows what measures may be taken by governments .
I would not rule it out .

Measles has a R0 of 16, so a potential to spread rapidly! We've never done it and it's a really excessive measure to even consider. We will get to 50% and 60% easily, probably 70% so it's a moot point. If people don't, continued restrictions are a big enough stick anyway.

Stheno

I just booked dinner for two in a different local to the walk in one

They have distinct two hour slots, so 6-8/8-10 and there is no deviation

Another place on Facebook is only taking bookings for 4-6 people

All a bit random tbh

The one with the slots is our favourite place to go they are very strict with rules etc which we like

Goldengirl

is_that_so wrote: »

Measles has a R0 of 16, so a potential to spread rapidly! We've never done it and it's a really excessive measure to even consider. We will get to 50% and 60% easily, probably 70% so it's a moot point.

I agree with you !
I had edited my post there but you probably didn't see it when you posted .