Arsenal Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2020/2021

Gus99

Gus99 wrote: »

Can you explain the best fit line?

If you take from Match 36 onwards that is 7 wins, 3 draw, 3 defeats. 24 points from 13 games so 1.85 points per game

Why does the line continue to go down?

It's generated by Excel automatically and will only ever be a straight line. It just shows that if there is a trend over the entire time period what the trend is.

I was playing around before and did rolling ppg average for 5 matches at some point before, I'll dig it out and add it to this post in an edit in the next few minutes.

EDIT: Here it is. PPG on a rolling 5-match basis. Trendline is actually slightly steeper which I'm surprised about but the difference is small enough to not be particularly significant.

emmetlego

My humble opinion for what it's worth.

We have had zero luck in the games we lost since Christmas, save for the City game. We have generally dominated teams that we should dominate, but then we get stupid individual errors by our players or by officials. Well, they say these things even out over a season, we better start getting good luck soon or else I'm going to explode. I found today incredibly frustrating.

There has been a discernible improvement in our football, both attacking and defending starting with the Christmas win over Chelsea. I don't need graphs to show me that. We have definitely over performed what our points tally has shown. Individual errors are what is killing us, and I'd imagine the summer may just see that improve with some new additions.

beer enigma

emmetlego wrote: »

My humble opinion for what it's worth.

We have had zero luck in the games we lost since Christmas, save for the City game. We have generally dominated teams that we should dominate, but then we get stupid individual errors by our players or by officials. Well, they say these things even out over a season, we better start getting good luck soon or else I'm going to explode. I found today incredibly frustrating.

There has been a discernible improvement in our football, both attacking and defending starting with the Christmas win over Chelsea. I don't need graphs to show me that. We have definitely over performed what our points tally has shown. Individual errors are what is killing us, and I'd imagine the summer may just see that improve with some new additions.

A very valid opinion and very astute Emmet.

There are a lot of wierd things this year but I think it's just the pace the team is developing. Willian being one.. From zero to looks good within a month. Arteta took huge criticism for standing by him and its paying off hopefully.

VAR, not just with us has been horrendous, the clear out of players must have taken its toll.

It's just a wierd season

Bobby Baccala

[Deleted User] wrote: »

From what I can see on that graph last season under Arteta I think there are only 2 matches where xG for is above xG against. Which is actually mental.
This season it looks like it's about 11/27 which is still pretty pathetic but to be expected while hovering around 10th.

It's been a year and a half and he's still got Xhaka as a nailed-on starter. When's that going to be addressed? Then it'll be another wasted season of a played having to "bed-in" and we'll slide further into irrelevance.


I've asked this before but I just still can't see any logical answer. Aside from his impressive hairline what is it that people are clinging to with Arteta? What is it that he's shown that means that even hints that he deserves so much time to turn things around?
The next 2 sets of accounts are going to be interesting and pretty depressing. If being mid-table with a mid-table budget is what people are happy with then maybe then I can understand supporting Arteta.

It really is baffling to me. In the last half season I've fully realised that Arsenal are no longer in any way a major club and the longer it continues the longer and harder it will be to turn things back around.
Deloitte money league:
2016: 7th
2017: 7th
2018: 6th (just overtook PSG)
2019: 9th (overtaken by Livepool, Chelsea and PSG)
2020: 11th (overtaken by Spurs and Juventus)

Revenue (millions):
2016: £435
2017: £468
2018: £487
2019: £439
2020: £445

In that same time period Liverpool have gone from £392million to £604million.
United have gone from £520million to £711million.
Even Chelsea through their struggles have gone from £420million to £513million.
Spurs more than doubled from £257million to £521million.

Aside from headline financials the club has been run like (and referred to as) a joke for over a decade now. The youth set-up has produced what, half a dozen players in the last 2 decades who you could really call a success and even at that they haven't exactly hit heady heights. Trying to think of the best and it's Ramsey, Bellerin, Wilshere and I'm already struggling to think of more, I'm sure there are a couple though and I will concede I haven't fully fleshed this point out. :pac:

We don't produce talented players. We rarely sign talented players. As I've said a few years ago, how many players have we gotten rid of who went on to great things? Not many and it's been a while. A level of mediocrity has been tolerated at all levels of the club for a long time now and it's gotten worse and is being tolerated in results as well.
Next year there will be people of legal drinking age who were born after Arsenal last won the league.

I'm sure I'll get the "sure why do you even support the team?" nonsense in reply to ya know, actual facts. And to be honest it's getting harder and harder. It's like when a friend is destroying themselves and ya know that there's nothing you can do to help. And pointing out the problem means you're told that you're the problem, that you're the one who doesn't care or doesn't want what's best.

Ramsey is a product of the Cardiff academy but yeah hard to argue with most of what you’re saying. I’m still all for Arteta because this team isn’t the finished product, interested to see who we’ll bring in this summer.

tayto lover

It seems that we’ve seen the last of Guendouzi too.
Looking for 25 million him apparently.

I'm not arsed putting together a post but if you just search for "errors" in the last thread you'll see it's something that a lot of people have said is the issue. Ship out the ones making the errors and others will take their place.

Since the Chelsea match it's 24 points from 13 matches, 1.8 ppg. A marked improvement over the 5 losses and 2 draws in the previous 7 matches, no doubt.
Again though in that run, look at the results and Chelsea and Leicester are the only 2 better than you would expect results. Unless counting only losing to City as some kind of moral victory.

beer enigma

Fook

https://twitter.com/btsportfootball/status/1368305735059333124?s=19

Reading a couple of articles about the match yesterday, and I don't think anyone can understand the no handball decision.

I don't understand how football is still so backwards with their VAR system. Why not learn from many different sports that implement something similar in a much better way? The ref and the VAR official should both have mics, and everyone should be able to be hear their reasoning behind decisions.

Bobby Baccala

Basil3 wrote: »

Reading a couple of articles about the match yesterday, and I don't think anyone can understand the no handball decision.

I don't understand how football is still so backwards with their VAR system. Why not learn from many different sports that implement something similar in a much better way? The ref and the VAR official should both have mics, and everyone should be able to be hear their reasoning behind decisions.

Decisions like that should be open to investigation. Refs can make all the fùck ups they want with no fear of being reprimanded. VAR has fully ruined the game for me

Jmac24128

Basil3 wrote: »

Reading a couple of articles about the match yesterday, and I don't think anyone can understand the no handball decision.

I don't understand how football is still so backwards with their VAR system. Why not learn from many different sports that implement something similar in a much better way? The ref and the VAR official should both have mics, and everyone should be able to be hear their reasoning behind decisions.

Kevin Friend has to be fired or suspended after that. Complete negligence.

Can't be condone or accepted.

Bet he will have a game next weekend though.

wonga77

VAR has made a mess of football and I'm not talking about yesterday. There's a doubt over every goal, tackle, free and decision now. Half the time players don't even celebrate a goal properly as they are waiting for it to be chalked off. Watching super slo-mo replays from 11 different angles and trying to figure out if a guys nose hair put him offside.
The spark is gone out of it.

L'prof

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We don't produce talented players. We rarely sign talented players

Man you put far too much effort into being extremely negative. It’s not healthy. Just to respond to this point. From the current squad we’ve produced Saka & Smith Rowe and have signed Auba, Tierney, Partey. Then there’s the likes of Martinelli & Gabriel that were signed to be nurtured

Just on Arteta as you’re always banging on about him. I’ll reiterate a point I made before. He has a huge task ahead of him. The team he took over will likely have to be completely changed over and that will take time. He’s started this process already and there are definite signs of improvement in the team. He’s started at the back making them more solid defensively. Individual errors have costed him massively this season but these individuals weren’t signed by him and likely don’t have a long term future at the club

They’ve also shown that they can step up to some of the bigger teams in the league. They beat Chelsea, weren’t annihilated by City as usual, 4 points from United, beating Leicester which they couldn’t manage last season

Right now they’re on course to have a slightly better season than last season. Their run-in isn’t that bad so they could improve on that even more. I’ve seen enough from Arteta to justify another season to see what he can bring. It’s too soon to get rid and bring in another manager to start the process all over again

AdamD

When a poster has on multiple occasions said they don't rate Saka its incredibly difficult to take them seriously. A blind man could have spotted Saka's talent

tayto lover

AdamD wrote: »

When a poster has on multiple occasions said they don't rate Saka its incredibly difficult to take them seriously. A blind man could have spotted Saka's talent

Funny enough when he first emerged I didn’t see much in him either. I didn’t think he competed in enough tackles or put himself about enough or demanded the ball. So that poster wasn’t on his own.
Then again hindsight is a wonderful thing. Saka has certainly changed my view of him and I’d say the other poster feels the same. Glad to have been wrong.

Quazzie

AdamD wrote: »

When a poster has on multiple occasions said they don't rate Saka its incredibly difficult to take them seriously. A blind man could have spotted Saka's talent

I'm guilty of this too. Couldn't see what he added at the start. He was being used as a full back and its since been proven he is much more effective when played further up the field. That wasn't obvious to me when he was playing fullback

L'prof

L'prof wrote: »

Man you put far too much effort into being extremely negative. It’s not healthy. Just to respond to this point. From the current squad we’ve produced Saka & Smith Rowe and have signed Auba, Tierney, Partey. Then there’s the likes of Martinelli & Gabriel that were signed to be nurtured

Meh, I'd rather be negative and realistic than delusional.
Saka and Smith-Rowe have started well but it'll be a couple of years before we'll know if they'll even be remembered in 10 years time. They're a couple of 19/20 year olds playing for a mid-table side and look good doing it so far.

Just on Arteta as you’re always banging on about him. I’ll reiterate a point I made before. He has a huge task ahead of him. The team he took over will likely have to be completely changed over and that will take time. He’s started this process already and there are definite signs of improvement in the team. He’s started at the back making them more solid defensively. Individual errors have costed him massively this season but these individuals weren’t signed by him and likely don’t have a long term future at the club

Yup, let's just wait while the club keeps on sinking into irrelevance.

They’ve also shown that they can step up to some of the bigger teams in the league. They beat Chelsea, weren’t annihilated by City as usual, 4 points from United, beating Leicester which they couldn’t manage last season

Did you watch the City match? It was as lackadaisical a performance as I've seen and I expect Pep was fairly pissed off with them.
Teams we've played twice:
Burnley 1 point
City 0 points
Southampton 4 points
Wolves 0 points
Leicester 3 points
Leeds 4 points
United 4 points

We can put it up to some teams while taking 1 point from 4 matches against Burnley and Wolves. Swings and roundabouts for a mid-table side.

Right now they’re on course to have a slightly better season than last season. Their run-in isn’t that bad so they could improve on that even more. I’ve seen enough from Arteta to justify another season to see what he can bring. It’s too soon to get rid and bring in another manager to start the process all over again

Was there anything this season (objectively) that would make you think Arteta wasn't up to the task in hand?

AdamD wrote: »

When a poster has on multiple occasions said they don't rate Saka its incredibly difficult to take them seriously. A blind man could have spotted Saka's talent

Who was that?
He wasn't great the very start but off the top of my head I've generally thought he's looked good but he's completely unproven. Did a quick search and the only real mention I've made of him was a month ago when I asked if he looked like he'd gone off the boil which would imply I thought he was at least decent before that.

Context is key. Players can look good in a mid-table side without being world beaters and we're a mid-table side right now.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Context is key. Players can look good in a mid-table side without being world beaters and we're a mid-table side right now.

Don't know if I get that logic. It must be easy for individual players to look good in that Liverpool team right now.

tayto lover

If we had won yesterday we’d only be 3 points behind the best team in the Universe with a game in hand.

jonneymendoza

tayto lover wrote: »

If we had won yesterday we’d only be 3 points behind the best team in the Universe with a game in hand.

We still gained a point from them

Basil3

Basil3 wrote: »

Don't know if I get that logic. It must be easy for individual players to look good in that Liverpool team right now.

Ya don't remember every year some young English player will look great for Villa/Everton or the like and be hailed as the next big thing and never push on?

tayto lover

Just some of the poor VAR decisions that we did NOT get any benefit from. Not to mention the numerous refereeing decisions that went against us before Var.
This is from Football 365.

VARsenal
The Burnley v Arsenal game was an example of Arsenal under Arteta. At times brilliant and dominating, capable of absurd errors costing them goals, profligate in front of goal, unable to amp up the intensity early enough when needed, and subject to unbalanced and bias calls from VAR. It’s the last point that I want to highlight because it’s becoming troublesome for the integrity of the game.

VAR worked as it should for Burnley on the late penalty decision and the red card – it overturned it. However, it failed in its duty to award Arsenal a penalty for handball earlier on – an obvious one and a decision that even Peter Walton found “surprising”.

Yet it isn’t really that surprising. When taking a holistic view, Arsenal’s history with VAR in the UK has been nothing short of outrageous. Off the top of my head alone, I can think of 18 (EIGHTEEN) controversial interventions or non-interventions by VAR that disadvantaged Arsenal. These are all situations where you regularly see VAR act in favour for other teams in identical circumstances.

22 Sep 2019 Arsenal 3-2 Villa
Maitland-Niles is sent off for a challenge that wasn’t even a foul. A strong but clean tackle followed by the Villa playing standing on him.

21 Oct 2019 Sheffield 1-0 Arsenal
Strong and obvious shirt pull on Sokratis in the box – no penalty given

27 Oct 2019 Arsenal 2-2 Palace
Arsenal’s winning goal disallowed after VAR decides Chambers committed a foul. The only foul was on Chambers

18 Jan 2020 Arsenal 1-1 Sheffield
Pepe clearly brought down in the box – no penalty given

7 Jul 2020 Arsenal 1-1 Leicester:
Nketiah receives red for serious foul play after VAR intervenes. Possibly warranted but the exact same foul (or worse) is committed by Tarkowski for West Ham v Burnley (that same night) and only gets a yellow
Vardy kicks Mustafi in the face (with obvious intent when you see the replay) and yet no red is given

16 Jul 2020 Arsenal 2-1 Liverpool
Alexander-Arnold commits a dangerous foul on Saka – no red is given
29 August 2020 Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool
Keita commits a dangerous foul on Nketiah – no red given

23 Sep 2020 Leicester 0-2 Arsenal
Saka is clearly fouled in the box – no penalty given

28 Sep 2020 Liverpool 3-1 Arsenal
Mane elbows Tierney in the face – only a yellow, no red
Jota scores after clearly handling the ball (contact well below t-shirt line) – it must be ruled out according to the rules but it isn’t

25 Oct 2020 Arsenal 0-1 Leicester
Laca has a goal disallowed – VAR said Xhaka was interfering with play whilst offside because he was blocking the keeper’s vision. He wasn’t anywhere near and was not interfering with play at all

30 Jan 2021 Arsenal 0-0 Man Utd
Fernandes rakes his studs down Xhaka’s calf and achilles – no red given
2 Feb 2021 Wolves 2-1 Arsenal:
Luiz given a red card for accidental contact with Wolves player, who goes down before shooting. Wolves player throws his leg backward in stride and it catches Luiz’s knee. Not rescinded on appeal. Compare this with Bednarek’s red v Man U on the same night for the exact same offence, which was overturned on appeal

6 Feb 2021 Villa 1-0 Arsenal:
Saka brought down by the last defender. Ref gives a yellow and VAR does not intervene. Compare this with Jagielka’s red on 3 Mar 21, Sheffield v Villa for a similar situation that was even less of a goal scoring opportunity
No penalty awarded against Martinez when he hauls down Laca in the box. Replays demonstrate it was not 50/50. Martinez grabs Laca’s shirt and hauls him over

14 Feb 2021 Arsenal 4-2 Leeds
Saka brought down in the box. Ref gives a pen and a yellow to the defender. VAR overturns this despite one replay angle clearly showing contact and the foul

6 March 2021 Burnley 1-1 Arsenal
VAR says no handball in the second half but it clearly was

All 18 have individually been subjected to questions and complaints by pundits and by the media. Also, maybe not all 18 are 100% egregious. Sometimes, even when it’s 80/20 your decision, they go against you. However, it’s the aggregation – 18 of them – which is most troubling and yet this never gets a mention by anyone.

The most worrisome thing is it’s simply not probable that such a level of inconsistent VAR application can be due to incompetence or bad luck alone. Is it corruption? Is it another form of conscious bias? Or is it simply unconscious bias? It’s impossible to tell without investigation but I’d say such an investigation is now long overdue.
Ben (London)

emmetlego

That's outrageous really. I thought I was just being paranoid...

tayto lover

emmetlego wrote: »

That's outrageous really. I thought I was just being paranoid...

Imagine if someone had compiled a list of all the dodgy and questionable refereeing decisions that went against us too!! Mike Dean alone would would fill pages.

al87987

I think criticism of Arteta is fair enough, Wenger got a lot worse for finishing a lot higher up the table. I'm not Arteta out at all but if his contract was up in the summer I would struggle to think of many reasons to give him a new one. It would be interesting to see the crowd reactions if we had fans in the stadium.

On Xhaka, I said after the ridiculous Leicester goal we gave away that if Arteta insists on bringing him into the back line we will continue to give away sloppy goals. I like Xhaka but he's slow, turns like a bus and can be careless with his passing, he needs to have people behind him who can bail him out.

You can keep blaming 'individual errors' all you like but it's a cop out, our tactics are accentuating the negative aspects of his play which is bad management.

al87987

tayto lover wrote: »

Just some of the poor VAR decisions that we did NOT get any benefit from. Not to mention the numerous refereeing decisions that went against us before Var.
This is from Football 365.

VARsenal
The Burnley v Arsenal game was an example of Arsenal under Arteta. At times brilliant and dominating, capable of absurd errors costing them goals, profligate in front of goal, unable to amp up the intensity early enough when needed, and subject to unbalanced and bias calls from VAR. It’s the last point that I want to highlight because it’s becoming troublesome for the integrity of the game.

VAR worked as it should for Burnley on the late penalty decision and the red card – it overturned it. However, it failed in its duty to award Arsenal a penalty for handball earlier on – an obvious one and a decision that even Peter Walton found “surprising”.

Yet it isn’t really that surprising. When taking a holistic view, Arsenal’s history with VAR in the UK has been nothing short of outrageous. Off the top of my head alone, I can think of 18 (EIGHTEEN) controversial interventions or non-interventions by VAR that disadvantaged Arsenal. These are all situations where you regularly see VAR act in favour for other teams in identical circumstances.

22 Sep 2019 Arsenal 3-2 Villa
Maitland-Niles is sent off for a challenge that wasn’t even a foul. A strong but clean tackle followed by the Villa playing standing on him.

21 Oct 2019 Sheffield 1-0 Arsenal
Strong and obvious shirt pull on Sokratis in the box – no penalty given

27 Oct 2019 Arsenal 2-2 Palace
Arsenal’s winning goal disallowed after VAR decides Chambers committed a foul. The only foul was on Chambers

18 Jan 2020 Arsenal 1-1 Sheffield
Pepe clearly brought down in the box – no penalty given

7 Jul 2020 Arsenal 1-1 Leicester:
Nketiah receives red for serious foul play after VAR intervenes. Possibly warranted but the exact same foul (or worse) is committed by Tarkowski for West Ham v Burnley (that same night) and only gets a yellow
Vardy kicks Mustafi in the face (with obvious intent when you see the replay) and yet no red is given

16 Jul 2020 Arsenal 2-1 Liverpool
Alexander-Arnold commits a dangerous foul on Saka – no red is given
29 August 2020 Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool
Keita commits a dangerous foul on Nketiah – no red given

23 Sep 2020 Leicester 0-2 Arsenal
Saka is clearly fouled in the box – no penalty given

28 Sep 2020 Liverpool 3-1 Arsenal
Mane elbows Tierney in the face – only a yellow, no red
Jota scores after clearly handling the ball (contact well below t-shirt line) – it must be ruled out according to the rules but it isn’t

25 Oct 2020 Arsenal 0-1 Leicester
Laca has a goal disallowed – VAR said Xhaka was interfering with play whilst offside because he was blocking the keeper’s vision. He wasn’t anywhere near and was not interfering with play at all

30 Jan 2021 Arsenal 0-0 Man Utd
Fernandes rakes his studs down Xhaka’s calf and achilles – no red given
2 Feb 2021 Wolves 2-1 Arsenal:
Luiz given a red card for accidental contact with Wolves player, who goes down before shooting. Wolves player throws his leg backward in stride and it catches Luiz’s knee. Not rescinded on appeal. Compare this with Bednarek’s red v Man U on the same night for the exact same offence, which was overturned on appeal

6 Feb 2021 Villa 1-0 Arsenal:
Saka brought down by the last defender. Ref gives a yellow and VAR does not intervene. Compare this with Jagielka’s red on 3 Mar 21, Sheffield v Villa for a similar situation that was even less of a goal scoring opportunity
No penalty awarded against Martinez when he hauls down Laca in the box. Replays demonstrate it was not 50/50. Martinez grabs Laca’s shirt and hauls him over

14 Feb 2021 Arsenal 4-2 Leeds
Saka brought down in the box. Ref gives a pen and a yellow to the defender. VAR overturns this despite one replay angle clearly showing contact and the foul

6 March 2021 Burnley 1-1 Arsenal
VAR says no handball in the second half but it clearly was

All 18 have individually been subjected to questions and complaints by pundits and by the media. Also, maybe not all 18 are 100% egregious. Sometimes, even when it’s 80/20 your decision, they go against you. However, it’s the aggregation – 18 of them – which is most troubling and yet this never gets a mention by anyone.

The most worrisome thing is it’s simply not probable that such a level of inconsistent VAR application can be due to incompetence or bad luck alone. Is it corruption? Is it another form of conscious bias? Or is it simply unconscious bias? It’s impossible to tell without investigation but I’d say such an investigation is now long overdue.
Ben (London)

These are the ravings of a lunatic. Every team has decisions go against them and wilfully forgets the ones that went for them. The introduction of VAR doesn't mean perfect refereeing.

tayto lover

al87987 wrote: »

These are the ravings of a lunatic. Every team has decisions go against them and wilfully forgets the ones that went for them. The introduction of VAR doesn't mean perfect refereeing.

I agree 100% with him.
We get far more bad decisions than any other team.

Arghus

tayto lover wrote: »

I agree 100% with him.
We get far more bad decisions than any other team.

Do we though? What other team are we all looking at with the same level of attention and emotional investment as Arsenal. Let's be honest here, none of us watch any other team more than Arsenal, so we'll be acutely aware of VAR decisions that go against them, but we probably are ignorant of a lot of VAR decisions that go against other teams, or we just don't really care enough to remember.

I'm sure you can compile a list of contentious decisions for literally any team in the league.

You talk to any other supporter of any other club they'll say the exact same thing: we get more bad VAR decisions against us than anyone else. I've heard it from countless Liverpool fans and United fans. I just don't buy it.

L'prof

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Was there anything this season (objectively) that would make you think Arteta wasn't up to the task in hand?

The only real concern I had was that blip where it didn’t look like they’d ever win a game again. 7 games without a win was worrying. You got the sense that if it went to 8/9/10 then it was lights out for Arteta

Just to answer the converse of that question then. What makes me think he’s up to the task? The huge improvement in the defensive side of their game. It’s not as if he’s gutted them and signed all new players. A lot of the improvement has been through coaching

At the end of the day he may not be the man for the job but he’s still done enough to warrant more time. Hell, I’ll remember that FA Cup win an awful lot more than all those seasons they finished top 4 and lost league cup finals

Deeper Blue

I think we badly need to ship Xhaka out in the summer.

That's not necessarily based purely on yesterday's mistake. However it illustrates that he has those mistakes in his arsenal, pardon the pun, and it's always just a matter of time before he produces one.

Deeper Blue

Deeper Blue wrote: »

I think we badly need to ship Xhaka out in the summer.

That's not necessarily based purely on yesterday's mistake. However it illustrates that he has those mistakes in his arsenal, pardon the pun, and it's always just a matter of time before he produces one.

He should've have been gone 3 managers (including Freddie :pac:) ago. Like I said yesterday, him being a nail-on starter in what is an absolutely crucial position in the modern game is inexcusable.

L'prof

L'prof wrote: »

The only real concern I had was that blip where it didn’t look like they’d ever win a game again. 7 games without a win was worrying. You got the sense that if it went to 8/9/10 then it was lights out for Arteta

Just to answer the converse of that question then. What makes me think he’s up to the task? The huge improvement in the defensive side of their game. It’s not as if he’s gutted them and signed all new players. A lot of the improvement has been through coaching

At the end of the day he may not be the man for the job but he’s still done enough to warrant more time. Hell, I’ll remember that FA Cup win an awful lot more than all those seasons they finished top 4 and lost league cup finals

Just to follow up, would it now take a run of 8/9/10 without a win to change your mind? Like even since the awful run (if we're just going move past that) we're still averaging under 2ppg.
The funny thing is that I don't think anyone is going to come in and get us top 4 next season but there are coaches out there who can make the most of what they have and with our budget there is no justification for being outside the top 6. Like I said, the club's basically been a meme for over a decade and at this stage it'll only take another year or 2 of irrelevance to leave a yawning chasm to the top teams in terms of budget.

L'prof

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just to follow up, would it now take a run of 8/9/10 without a win to change your mind? Like even since the awful run (if we're just going move past that) we're still averaging under 2ppg.
The funny thing is that I don't think anyone is going to come in and get us top 4 next season but there are coaches out there who can make the most of what they have and with our budget there is no justification for being outside the top 6. Like I said, the club's basically been a meme for over a decade and at this stage it'll only take another year or 2 of irrelevance to leave a yawning chasm to the top teams in terms of budget.

It would take a lot to change my mind between now and the end of next season

Azatadine

If you go back a few months worth of posts on here, people were happy to give him the season to gauge progress and if our league position was not good enough at the end of the season,, he should be held accountable. That was a fair way to approach it too. I dont see us finishing much above 10th.......

DvB

Deleted User wrote: »

at this stage it'll only take another year or 2 of irrelevance to leave a yawning chasm to the top teams in terms of budget.

I'd argue there already is a yawning chasm. Can you see Kroenke providing the funds for any manager to compete financially with Pep's city? The days of competing financially with the 2 manchester clubs & chelsea are gone until we have a new owner IMO. The simple truth is if we go head to head with any of those 3 clubs for a player, we'll never get them.

L'prof

L'prof wrote: »

It would take a lot to change my mind between now and the end of next season

So mid-table again next season would be ok?

DvB wrote: »

I'd argue there already is a yawning chasm. Can you see Kroenke providing the funds for any manager to compete financially with Pep's city? The days of competing financially with the 2 manchester clubs & chelsea are gone until we have a new owner IMO. The simple truth is if we go head to head with any of those 3 clubs for a player, we'll never get them.

The gap is there but getting straight back into CL and moving up the table would be an instant what, 80 million? Gonna guess some performance-related stuff has to be happening to. The longer the gap is there the longer it'll take to close it (if ever).

DvB

Deleted User wrote: »

The gap is there but getting straight back into CL and moving up the table would be an instant what, 80 million? Gonna guess some performance-related stuff has to be happening to. The longer the gap is there the longer it'll take to close it (if ever).

It would help maintain the gap, not sure about bridging it, even slightly. When other clubs have owners willing to spend heavily consistently and ours clearly isn't willing (or able) to do the same you're always going to be ultimately shopping for different players as they'll just outbid you if they want someone you are actively chasing.

I honestly believe the only way to bridge that gap and stay at that top table in the modern game is to have a generous owner willing to spend what it takes to compete for the big trophies.

L'prof

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So mid-table again next season would be ok?

Where did I say that? I just said that he deserves until the end of next season at least and assess the job he’s done then

L'prof

L'prof wrote: »

Where did I say that? I just said that he deserves until the end of next season at least and assess the job he’s done then

I'm asking for something a bit more defined rather than "a lot", that's all. So if we're in the same position this time next season then he still deserves til the end of the season?

Jmac24128

Listening to Arsecast... Still angry over that penalty. Still just can't understand how on earth it wasn't given. Just insane, still hurts my brain.. HOW HOW HOW does anybody on the earth look at that and say no penalty.

Not getting involved in the Arteta talk, I'm sick of it. It's a pointless talk. He is going nowhere, this is a process with a minimal budget and trying to fix 10 years of bad buying and coasting with a terrible culture.

Mid table at the end of next season then it's worth a discussion. Until then, it's a cock flavour lollipop.... It's useless and pointless

tayto lover

Azatadine wrote: »

If you go back a few months worth of posts on here, people were happy to give him the season to gauge progress and if our league position was not good enough at the end of the season,, he should be held accountable. That was a fair way to approach it too. I dont see us finishing much above 10th.......

I’m one of those posters.
I’m prepared to give him the season.
As a poster has said there are some improvements, especially in defence, but this is a results based business and our results and league standing are not improving. We’re in 10th place, 24 points from the bottom and 27 from the top. The table never lies.

The big question for me is, will he be backed in the summer?
Will the powers that be look at the results and the table and decide that they aren’t going to back Arteta with new funds if they have to sack him and bring in someone new who’ll also want to buy his own kind of players. Hard to blame them for thinking like that too.

I would still like see him getting this full season and I believe he will but if I was the owner I’d want us much higher up the table and maybe winning something, Europa League, before I’d be happy to dish out a lot more cash. Lose in midweek and again against Spurs and it could get really sticky for him with the fan base too.

Azatadine

Either way, it should be possible to discuss the merits of his success or lack of success. Its a discussion forum after all but this forum is turning into a cold place to be if anybody even questions Arteta. I can't understand blind loyalty at all. The table is the measure of success.

DarraghF197

Arteta's the man for the job

Irish Aris

tayto lover wrote: »

I’m one of those posters.
I’m prepared to give him the season.
As a poster has said there are some improvements, especially in defence, but this is a results based business and our results and league standing are not improving. We’re in 10th place, 24 points from the bottom and 27 from the top. The table never lies.

The big question for me is, will he be backed in the summer?
Will the powers that be look at the results and the table and decide that they aren’t going to back Arteta with new funds if they have to sack him and bring in someone new who’ll also want to buy his own kind of players. Hard to blame them for thinking like that too.

I would still like see him getting this full season and I believe he will but if I was the owner I’d want us much higher up the table and maybe winning something, Europa League, before I’d be happy to dish out a lot more cash. Lose in midweek and again against Spurs and it could get really sticky for him with the fan base too.

My concern is that the financial results were on the red for the second year in a row - and since the latest statements cover up to May 2020 it is expected that it will be the same for the following year (up to May 2021 I would imagine).
Will the owners have the appetite to fork out money under these circumstances.
I just hope that by May/June we will have a better idea of whether fans will be allowed at all come September and that could influence decisions. I guess another factor would be whether we qualify for Europe next season - at this point I think they only way is to win Europa League, though based on performances I'm not sure how we will go the whole way.

greendom

Azatadine wrote: »

Either way, it should be possible to discuss the merits of his success or lack of success. Its a discussion forum after all but this forum is turning into a cold place to be if anybody even questions Arteta. I can't understand blind loyalty at all. The table is the measure of success.

You mean cold because people don't agree with you?

I really want Arteta to succeed and believe he will become a great manager. I was losing faith during that awful pre-Christmas run but I think we should stick with him. I'm not sure who could do better and I really don't want to become a club that changes its managers every season. The club doesn't appear to have the structure behind it to support that type of style, unlike say Chelsea.

Azatadine

greendom wrote: »

You mean cold because people don't agree with you?

Nope. I mean the tone of some posters is over the top and any hint of questing Arteta is thumped to death with a giant hammer.

L'prof

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm asking for something a bit more defined rather than "a lot", that's all. So if we're in the same position this time next season then he still deserves til the end of the season?

Too many variables to consider. It doesn’t just come down to points on the board. If I was to pull one out of my backside as a target I’d be happy with for next season then I’d say 70 points-ish. The real improvement I’d be hoping for is that they could go on runs of winning games. Not just 2 or 3 at a time as has been the case this season. If they can cut down on individual errors then that will come naturally. They need to be winning far more of their games against teams in the bottom half

tayto lover

L'prof wrote: »

Too many variables to consider. It doesn’t just come down to points on the board. If I was to pull one out of my backside as a target I’d be happy with for next season then I’d say 70 points-ish. The real improvement I’d be hoping for is that they could go on runs of winning games. Not just 2 or 3 at a time as has been the case this season. If they can cut down on individual errors then that will come naturally. They need to be winning far more of their games against teams in the bottom half

I’m not so sure.
Points on the board mean money and that’s important for people like the Kronkes. Also, how many games in a row have we actually won this season?
Is there evidence that we could go on better runs? I’m not seeing it. We seem more likely to see the mistakes continuing imo. Arteta has to settle on his best team and stick with it and only change when necessary. Far too many changes far too often at the moment.

L'prof

tayto lover wrote: »

I’m not so sure.
Points on the board mean money and that’s important for people like the Kronkes. Also, how many games in a row have we actually won this season?
Is there evidence that we could go on better runs? I’m not seeing it. We seem more likely to see the mistakes continuing imo. Arteta has to settle on his best team and stick with it and only change when necessary. Far too many changes far too often at the moment.

Too many games coming too quickly to play the same team week in week out so rotation is necessary. There’s nothing to play for in the league so I think we’re going to continue to see rotation there while they’re still in the Europa League

tayto lover

L'prof wrote: »

Too many games coming too quickly to play the same team week in week out so rotation is necessary. There’s nothing to play for in the league so I think we’re going to continue to see rotation there while they’re still in the Europa League

You could be right but it’s a very dangerous game for Arteta to play.
If we don’t win the Europa and also lose more ground in the EPL he’d be signing his own death warrant imo. The teams around us have games in hand and we could drop to as low as 13th if we’re not careful,
Anyway I’m still hoping Arteta becomes a successful manager and gets us back to where we belong but it’s a tightrope he’s walking.

Azatadine

Chelsea have really turned it around since Tuchel came in. Bit of a gap opening between them and the chasing pack. Still tight but they are on a roll.