Arsenal Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2020/2021

beer enigma

beer enigma wrote: »

Apparently Luiz was in the stands screaming at the substituted Arsenal players to get off the pitch quicker

I've complained plenty about him but at least he's not a loser.

Royale with Cheese

beer enigma wrote: »

He will get a job with a Mentor coaching director and do well. Watch him in 3 to 5 years. Actually feel sorry for him as his heart is in the right place, just given a massive job without support

You're entitled to your opinion but I've no idea where this blind faith that Arteta will turn into a great manager comes from. He had done literally nothing before getting the Arsenal job and his reputation has only diminished since getting it. He will be taking a serious step down next time up if he wants to continue in management.

carltonleon

I have wanted Arteta to succeed from day one as we all have and I was a little excited by his appointment at the time but I always said that Arsenal is too big a club to cut your managerial teeth and Arteta is learning his trade at Arsenal. How about this for a curveball, what about Steven Gerrard?

Royale with Cheese

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

You're entitled to your opinion but I've no idea where this blind faith that Arteta will turn into a great manager comes from. He had done literally nothing before getting the Arsenal job and his reputation has only diminished since getting it. He will be taking a serious step down next time up if he wants to continue in management.

He is a stifler. Kills all individuality. The team is in a straitjacket. He might make a good mid-table Championship manager but that's about it.

carltonleon

carltonleon wrote: »

I have wanted Arteta to succeed from day one as we all have and I was a little excited by his appointment at the time but I always said that Arsenal is too big a club to cut your managerial teeth and Arteta is learning his trade at Arsenal. How about this for a curveball, what about Steven Gerrard?

He's tested himself in a two-team league.Not for me thanks. Let him be the new Souness for Liverpool when Klopp leaves.

beer enigma

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

You're entitled to your opinion but I've no idea where this blind faith that Arteta will turn into a great manager comes from. He had done literally nothing before getting the Arsenal job and his reputation has only diminished since getting it. He will be taking a serious step down next time up if he wants to continue in management.

Just from internal comments. There's a lot of good spoken about him within the club, I think personally he can do the job if he has sufficient support from above, but it's a bit like Ole, no doubt Fergie still has influence.

At risk of being controversial, if Wenger was upstairs with Arteta as manager, I think the tactics would be much better

That doesnt cure the KSE factor tho

beer enigma

beer enigma wrote: »

Just from internal comments. There's a lot of good spoken about him within the club, I think personally he can do the job if he has sufficient support from above, but it's a bit like Ole, no doubt Fergie still has influence.

At risk of being controversial, if Wenger was upstairs with Arteta as manager, I think the tactics would be much better

Wenger couldn't organise a defence to save his life. We were battered numerous times under his management.

Remember United hammering us 8-2??
Remember Liverpool hammering us 5-1???
City battering us 6-3???
Chelsea battering us 6-0???
Bayern battering us 10-2 on aggregate???

He was yesterday's man. Finished.

Sick of the revisionism re Wenger. If we had a proper chairman we'd have a proper manager in place instead of has beens and never will be's. Sick of the credit Emery is getting too. Marched them like lambs to slaughter to the last final we appeared in.

Underground

The Kroenke stuff for me is done to death. If they're not going to sell, there's really not much we can do about it.

The coach and what's happening on the pitch is more controllable. Gunnerblog put out a good video on this tonight.

Player for player, that Arsenal team tonight is more talented than Villareal's. We got rid of Emery and his successor has come up short against him tonight with a more talented team, it's not a good look. Any time a team looks less than the sum of its parts, it falls on the coach.

beer enigma

beer enigma wrote: »

Just from internal comments. There's a lot of good spoken about him within the club, I think personally he can do the job if he has sufficient support from above, but it's a bit like Ole, no doubt Fergie still has influence.

At risk of being controversial, if Wenger was upstairs with Arteta as manager, I think the tactics would be much better

That doesnt cure the KSE factor tho

Where's the inside line from?

beer enigma

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wenger couldn't organise a defence to save his life. We were battered numerous times under his management.

Remember United hammering us 8-2??
Remember Liverpool hammering us 5-1???
City battering us 6-3???
Chelsea battering us 6-0???
Bayern battering us 10-2 on aggregate???

He was yesterday's man. Finished.

Sick of the revisionism re Wenger. If we had a proper chairman we'd have a proper manager in place instead of has beens and never will be's. Sick of the credit Emery is getting too. Marched them like lambs to slaughter to the last final we appeared in.

I totally agree as manager he was finished, but as mentor to the likes of Arteta (if that's the best we were going to get) I believe he would have offered something

Love the use of revisionism, seriously good word

beer enigma

Total aside, just been told that on 25/07/2021 I'll be 20 years on Boards !.....pre season beers

beer enigma

beer enigma wrote: »

I totally agree as manager he was finished, but as mentor to the likes of Arteta (if that's the best we were going to get) I believe he would have offered something

Love the use of revisionism, seriously good word

It would be Bobby Robson and Steve Staunton all over again. Arteta was already finding it tough without having an official mentor in his corner. He'd lose all credibility if it emerged that Wenger was holding his hand.

el Fenomeno

I think people convincing themselves that a lack of European football devaluing the club will convince Kroenke to sell are in for a rude awakening.

Billionaires don't become billionaires by selling at the bottom.

beer enigma

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It would be Bobby Robson and Steve Staunton all over again. Arteta was already finding it tough without having an official mentor in his corner. He'd lose all credibility if it emerged that Wenger was holding his hand.

Ole hasn't

mossie

beer enigma wrote: »

Just from internal comments. There's a lot of good spoken about him within the club, I think personally he can do the job if he has sufficient support from above, but it's a bit like Ole, no doubt Fergie still has influence.

At risk of being controversial, if Wenger was upstairs with Arteta as manager, I think the tactics would be much better

That doesnt cure the KSE factor tho

It doesn't matter who manages us as long as KSE are in charge. Pep, Klopp, Jose(not really), going nowhere.

beer enigma

beer enigma wrote: »

Ole hasn't

Ole had some form of management experience, Arteta had nothing. Charge your fans the highest ticket prices probably in the world, and hire an amateur :rolleyes:

5star02707

https://twitter.com/OsmanZtheGooner/status/1390423209263120393?s=19

Alright before I sleep #KroenkeOut one last time.
Nothing will change if we don't have an ambitious owner.

beer enigma

el Fenomeno wrote: »

I think people convincing themselves that a lack of European football devaluing the club will convince Kroenke to sell are in for a rude awakening.

Billionaires don't become billionaires by selling at the bottom.

Oh hello, new voice very welcome.

I agree, allegedly the club was offered for 1.7bn last year but the potential buyer didn't bite. Suspect this is where the 1.8bn Ek valuation came from.

Out best bet is that without ESL the bid will cover the leveraged amount on the LA stadium and give a healthy profit on investment which may just trigger a deal.

beer enigma

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ole had some form of management experience, Arteta had nothing. Charge your fans the highest ticket prices probably in the world, and hire an amateur :rolleyes:

Two spells at Molde and a bit at Cardiff, I'd say Arteta at City probably equalled that but take your point

Underground

Underground wrote: »

The Kroenke stuff for me is done to death. If they're not going to sell, there's really not much we can do about it.

The coach and what's happening on the pitch is more controllable. Gunnerblog put out a good video on this tonight.

Player for player, that Arsenal team tonight is more talented than Villareal's. We got rid of Emery and his successor has come up short against him tonight with a more talented team, it's not a good look. Any time a team looks less than the sum of its parts, it falls on the coach.

Of the starting 11 tonight:
Mari, Holding and Smith-Rowe are uncapped.
Bellerin, Leno, Saka are on single digits.
Aubameyang, Partey, Tierney, Odegaard and Pepe are our "established" internationals. For Gabon, Ghana, Scotland, Norway and Ivory Coast.

Should still be beating Villareal alright though.

farna_boy

brianregan09 wrote: »

Much like Lampard I don't see another big club taking a punt on Arteta after this

It's so hard to think what's going to happen Manager isn't good enough , Scouting isn't good enough , the lads in the office who do the hiring and firing are 100% not good enough and of course the Head of the snake is a massive cnut

The Daniel Ek plus invincibles thing seems like a pipe dream but it's honestly all i'm clinging too at the moment , we do still have a great crop of youngsters coming through and most on long contracts so we're far from finished at all

Likes of Willian ,Cedric, Luiz, Xhaka, Mari all of them need to go and go with the kids for a while , use Auba, Partey Pepe etc they are all better than they are playing at the moment , I definitely wouldn't be losing all hope

I think the Daniel Ek thing is a terrible idea.

He is a fan and I don't think it will work and those are intrinsically linked.

We need someone who is a business man first and wants Arsenal to make money, but at the same time have enough disposable money to throw at the club to make it work.

Getting the former players involved has a good chance of ending up tarnishing their names

mossie

farna_boy wrote: »

I think the Daniel Ek thing is a terrible idea./quote]

Strongly disagree. I think a fan in charge would are least have the interest of the club in charge. Unlike Stan and family

Ol' Donie

I really wanted Arteta to succeed, but it's really hard to argue we've done anything but go backwards this season.

Surely there's an up and coming manager who's showing promise in Europe some bloody where? Doesn't have to be a well known fella, just someone who has demonstrated potential?

beer enigma

beer enigma wrote: »

Two spells at Molde and a bit at Cardiff, I'd say Arteta at City probably equalled that but take your point

Two spells at Molde and the ill-fated stint at Cardiff, is still better than what Arteta had. Arteta was an assistant coach with three years. Dont forget also, Solksjaer managed Uniteds youth side. Im not suggesting for a second he is streets ahead, or making any case for him, but in all likelihood, as windy as they are, they'll batter the living sh1t out of Villareal.

The longer KSE stays around, the worse it will be for the club. I cant help but draw comparisons to both Ellis Short and Randy Lerner, both of whom overseen relegations. Liverpool under Hicks and Gillet spring to mind also. The Glazers get a lot of stick, but they seen a lot of trophies, league titles and high finishes.

I like Arteta the man as he has always done his best for the club and speaks very well. I kept an open mind to him and he delivered two good days for the club (FA cup and Community Shield), but two relatively minor trophies don't butter any parsnips. Results this year have been concerning. We've been battered in games by other mediocre teams. Tonight we approached the game with all the urgency of a team that were 10-0 up on aggregate against a team from San Marino. No cohesion, no urgency, no fight,

Of course he is not the answer, but my concern is that the likes of Rafa would see us as similar to Newcastle at this stage. No manager worth their salt will go near us. (I read an article in the Athletic where he spoke of his time at Newcastle and of many broken promises)

farna_boy

farna_boy wrote: »

I think the Daniel Ek thing is a terrible idea.

He is a fan and I don't think it will work and those are intrinsically linked.

We need someone who is a business man first and wants Arsenal to make money, but at the same time have enough disposable money to throw at the club to make it work.

Getting the former players involved has a good chance of ending up tarnishing their names

Daniel Ek is obviously no fool in Business if he grew Spotify to be the Juggernaut that they are today. Id rather him than the Kroenkes. I do think the Invincibles genuinely care about the plight of the club. If he can get a smart man like Bergkamp on board then that's even better still. Criminal he hasn't been offered a job at Arsenal. Himself, Cruyff and De Boer basically overhauled the Youth system at Ajax

FixitFelix

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As long as the Kroenke's are in charge of Arsenal, it will be mediocrity all the way. Mid-table now, it will be relegation struggling next. The club is rotten from the head down.

Tonight was actually worse than the last night. They had no interest in going through. 1 mile an hour football. They are done. No amount of fluffy positivity is going to save them. the Kroenkes have destroyed them.

I'm far from being positive tonight and know exactly the state the club is in, but all this talk of relegation is all very dramatic

L'prof

If Arteta gets the chop he can have no real complaints. He's been given as long as Emery and hasn't improved Arsenal at all

He definitely hasn't been backed by the board but maybe they need to find a manager that can get the most out of a situation like that

Pep rates him very highly but he was working at a club with a vastly superior squad. They never had to make do with what they had and improve the squad through training, they'd just spend £30m on a new signing. If that player didn't work out they'd spend another £30m

farna_boy

Deleted User wrote: »

Daniel Ek is obviously no fool in Business if he grew Spotify to be the Juggernaut that they are today. Id rather him than the Kroenkes. I do think the Invincibles genuinely care about the plight of the club. If he can get a smart man like Bergkamp on board then that's even better still. Criminal he hasn't been offered a job at Arsenal. Himself, Cruyff and De Boer basically overhauled the Youth system at Ajax

I don't think he is a fool, but if we want to compete we need an owner who can throw money at us right now.

Ek would be investing about half his net worth in Arsenal to buy the club. Compare that to the owners of City and Chelsea where their clubs are only 10% of the owners net worth and you start seeing problems.

We already have an owner who can't/won't invest, and throw money at the club to fix all the problems, how will Ek be any different?

beer enigma

beer enigma wrote: »

He will get a job with a Mentor coaching director and do well. Watch him in 3 to 5 years. Actually feel sorry for him as his heart is in the right place, just given a massive job without support

Out of interest, what sort of support was he lacking? To me, he needed to establish a style of play, and get the most out of our existing squad. He's failed on both of those fronts, and I don't know what kind of support he was lacking that could have assisted with this.

I don't necessarily want Arteta out, but at the same time I don't think he's shown enough to give us hope that there is a master plan or 'process' that is yet to play out.

emergingstar

Did the problems start when he was moved from head coach to Manager

Looking forward to next season. Most matches on a Saturday, establishing a best 11 that plays week in, week out, and having a crack at the Top 4 trophy again.

One can dream

Jmac24128

A lot of pain & anger still from last night but I still see them sticking with Arteta for another while. He will get the start of next season. Another transfer window too. I do think they will be having a think about who could come in if he starts next season badly.

That's not my opinion on what should be done..just what I feel will happen

Jmac24128

Basil3 wrote: »

Looking forward to next season. Most matches on a Saturday, establishing a best 11 that plays week in, week out, and having a crack at the Top 4 trophy again.

One can dream

High high hopes

Underground

Since the Kroenke's don't want to be hands on in the running of the club it's pretty clear we need a Director of Football who knows what he's doing. That should be on KSE's agenda for the summer.

For this to happen they will probably need to row back on their bone headed decision to promote Arteta from head coach to manager. I thought it was the job of the fans to get carried away, not the executive team.

Time has passed but I'm still not sure what the point of Edu as Technical Director is, maybe his position needs to be reviewed too.

jonneymendoza

Deleted User wrote: »

I've complained plenty about him but at least he's not a loser.

Yea exactly

jonneymendoza

emergingstar wrote: »

Did the problems start when he was moved from head coach to Manager

no it started with the Kroenke

callaway92

emergingstar wrote: »

Did the problems start when he was moved from head coach to Manager

Only difference there is coaching credentials/qualifications - Still the same job

Marcus Antonius

Just reading through the fall out from last night. Lots of angry folks and rightly so. I was fuming after the first leg, I know we got the away goal but we were poor and Villarreal weren't great. Last night had a sort of inevitability about it to me, I was more numb than angry.

We aren't consistent, haven't been all season, have been poor at home too. I was hoping against hope that the Arsenal team who hammered Olympiacos handily would turn up but it wasn't to be. We had absolutely no urgency about us, as people have commented here, we were playing like we were holding on to a lead. To me I'm not sure the dressing room is listening to Arteta anymore. You could see in the second half that we came out with a bit of urgency for the first five mins but then went back to sleep.

I expect we're going to be sticking with him for a least one if not two more transfer windows. It's sad but it's going to be a long time of rebuilding at our club for whoever is at the helm (I know Kroenke is going to make this even more difficult, he has a way of encouraging mediocrity in the sports teams on his books, took over the Avalanches and sold most of their best players the next season. Rams were doing okay in St. Louis and moved them to LA, all about the money, made the playoffs 8 times in last 26 years).

I like that youth are getting a go in the team now (even if that probably only originally happened because of injuries which forced Arteta's hand), I want them to play the rest of the league games this season and maybe blood a few more, Balogun has to play a few games at this stage. I'd love to see the following line up played consistently:

Leno
Chambers--Holding---Mari--Tierney
Saka---Xhaka--Partey---Martinelli
Smith-Rowe
Balogun

Harsh on Pepe who has been playing well (much to my surprise). And generous for Partey who hasn't played particularly well for the last few games. Not overly familiar with the academy players but if he could bring another couple through even to the bench to play I'd be all for it. We're going to have to have a clear out this summer I expect. Dark times at the moment but hopefully we're making progress come next season.

FixitFelix

FixitFelix wrote: »

I'm far from being positive tonight and know exactly the state the club is in, but all this talk of relegation is all very dramatic

If they keep running the club the way they are, I think there is only one way we can go. 5th would be considered dramatic not long ago, and now its become mid-table. Mid-table will eventually become lower half of the table and then eventually relegation. KSE have no interest or knowledge in football.

djan

I don't understand why people keep blaming the owners for this.

The team has had substantial investment with numerous high profile players like Pepe and Partey being signed or having contracts renewed (Auba, Saka etc.). The players are more than good enough not to be getting regularly outplayed by relegation fodder teams in the PL and hugely struggling with vastly inferior teams in the EL.

For me it's 100% down to the manager as he is the one that is responsible for team selections, motivating and instilling tactics. Arteta seems a nice charismatic guy but seems way out of his depth. The team plays too naively, predictably and is just so rigid. Defenders being rotated and positions changed left right and centre with players on form being dropped and vice versa.

djan

djan wrote: »

I don't understand why people keep blaming the owners for this.

The team has had substantial investment with numerous high profile players like Pepe and Partey being signed or having contracts renewed (Auba, Saka etc.). The players are more than good enough not to be getting regularly outplayed by relegation fodder teams in the PL and hugely struggling with vastly inferior teams in the EL.

For me it's 100% down to the manager as he is the one that is responsible for team selections, motivating and instilling tactics. Arteta seems a nice charismatic guy but seems way out of his depth. The team plays too naively, predictably and is just so rigid. Defenders being rotated and positions changed left right and centre with players on form being dropped and vice versa.

I agree with your assessment on Arteta, but I think getting rid of Arteta alone won't solve Arsenal's problem just as getting rid of Wenger and Emery didn't solve it. The club is on easy street and the culture embedded within it is one of loserdom. The fact we replaced Emery with such a rookie would show you the mindset within the club.

jonneymendoza

djan wrote: »

I don't understand why people keep blaming the owners for this.

The team has had substantial investment with numerous high profile players like Pepe and Partey being signed or having contracts renewed (Auba, Saka etc.). The players are more than good enough not to be getting regularly outplayed by relegation fodder teams in the PL and hugely struggling with vastly inferior teams in the EL.

For me it's 100% down to the manager as he is the one that is responsible for team selections, motivating and instilling tactics. Arteta seems a nice charismatic guy but seems way out of his depth. The team plays too naively, predictably and is just so rigid. Defenders being rotated and positions changed left right and centre with players on form being dropped and vice versa.

Listen, the recruitment has been shambolic for over 5 years.

You can count i one hand the signings we had that were a success.

Most of them have beel a flop across 3 different managers now and thats down to the owners and there crecruitment. not the managers,

Also, those same players were there under emery and what happened to emery? Yea thats right, we still got battered by loads of teams up and down the table and diddnt go anywhere near top 4.

Sorry but its the owners and if you cant see that then i give up

greendom

The owners don't have the inclination to provide the kind of support that would allow us to compete with Chelsea, City and United at the moment that is not in question. However the squad should be able to compete with the likes of WESt Ham, Everton, Leicester etc. The fact that we're not able to do that suggests that the manager is at fault.

jonneymendoza

greendom wrote: »

The owners don't have the inclination to provide the kind of support that would allow us to compete with Chelsea, City and United at the moment that is not in question. However the squad should be able to compete with the likes of WESt Ham, Everton, Leicester etc. The fact that we're not able to do that suggests that the manager is at fault.

We couldnt compete with them under emery and wenger either so no its not the manager.

its the players.

They simply aint good enough.

Who in the arsenal lineup would any leciester fan want to add to there squad?

Underground

jonneymendoza wrote: »

Listen, the recruitment has been shambolic for over 5 years.

You can count i one hand the signings we had that were a success.

Most of them have beel a flop across 3 different managers now and thats down to the owners and there crecruitment. not the managers,

Also, those same players were there under emery and what happened to emery? Yea thats right, we still got battered by loads of teams up and down the table and diddnt go anywhere near top 4.

Sorry but its the owners and if you cant see that then i give up

Nobody is saying the owners aren't the problem, but Arteta is clearly a problem too. You have to see that surely? I've defended him here too but I can't anymore at this stage.

Man for man our squad has more talent than the Villareal squad (even with all of our crap signings over the last few years) , yet we barely laid a glove on them over two legs and were tactically outsmarted by a manager who was deemed not good enough for us 18 months ago.

darego

Underground wrote: »

Nobody is saying the owners aren't the problem, but Arteta is clearly a problem too. You have to see that surely? I've defended him here too but I can't anymore at this stage.

Man for man our squad has more talent than the Villareal squad (even with all of our crap signings over the last few years) , yet we barely laid a glove on them over two legs and were tactically outsmarted by a manager who was deemed not good enough for us 18 months ago.

I would definitely agree with that. I know we have a lot of average and poor players but we also have a few very good players. One of Arteta's duties was to get the best out of that group of decent players, and he failed to do so.

I think it's time Arsenal had an experienced manager. I would love to see Allegri but I have a feeling Arteta will still be in charge next season.

jonneymendoza

Anyways i feel we should give Arteta until xmas to see if he can turn things around, if not, get another manager in

jonneymendoza

darego wrote: »

I would definitely agree with that. I know we have a lot of average and poor players but we also have a few very good players. One of Arteta's duties was to get the best out of that group of decent players, and he failed to do so.

I think it's time Arsenal had an experienced manager. I would love to see Allegri but I have a feeling Arteta will still be in charge next season.

Emery was experienced no???

darego

jonneymendoza wrote: »

Emery was experienced no???

he sure was? I never said he wasn't :pac: I actually never even mentioned Emery in my post.. all I said was I would like to see another experienced manager in charge, preferably Allegri. I probably should have worded it differently - I think it's time Arsenal had another experienced manager